and i thought Ingest was parisitic but Cohort took to a whole new level.And isn't even a good ability because there isn't a good cohort creature in here
Nissa's Judgement is perfectly within the colour pie. It doesn't make creatures, like Ezuri's Predation, which is a break. It only allows you to destroy your opponent's creatures if you already have creatures on the board. That's very much how green does things. So far as I can see, the only things which stretch the colour pie are Stone Haven Outfitter, which is a deliberate attempt to experiment with white's portion of the pie (the idea that maybe white can be allowed to draw cards if it's tied to very specific white strategies) and Chandra, Flamecaller who allows red to have actual permanent card advantage.
I'm what way is Ezuri's Predation a break? It makes tokens and fights. Those are very Green things. It's like MaRo has said in the past. They won't make a card that makes a deathtouch token and fights something because that is basically Murder. But Ezuri's Predation is just fine. Chandra may push things but it's in a very Red way. And personally I don't like this experiment with White draw. But that may be more due to my dislike of white in general than anything else.
Funny enough, MaRo would have been fine with Ezuri's Predation had it been tagged on a creature rather than on a spell. Seems pedantic to me.
Well, Lou, if you're making an Ally deck, you're going to naturally include as many allies as possible to get the most from the Rally triggers and from cards such as March from the Tomb, most tribal decks use as many creatures from the tribe as possible.
Difference being Cohort isn't even good with allies, having to tap two creatures of the same type and barely getting anything out of it is not a great mechanic.
and i thought Ingest was parisitic but Cohort took to a whole new level.And isn't even a good ability because there isn't a good cohort creature in here
I'm still confused as to how Ingest/Process is parasitic.
It isn't. Ingest and Parasitic work very well with each other (in limited), but they work in other ways as well. Process in particular works with anything that exiles, and Ingest...well it's an enabler, but if you like library disruption, it's there.
Cohort, on the other hand, literally only works with one creature type which is found in a grand total of 4 sets, and gives no boon to creatures not of that type (Unlike Rally). THAT is parasitic.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
The more I read the spoiler for the set, the more I like. Lots of very constructive discussion in the top 10 cards thread is getting my creative ideas flowing.
Munda's Vanguard gives a +1/+1 counter to each creature you have (Including itself and the other ally you're tapping), and makes Unity of Purpose much more useful, as you can get another Cohort activation in the middle of a fight (Yeah, yeah, 3U is a lot for a combat trick, we all know that.) and Drana's Chosen makes more creatures (2/2s to be precise) which are not allies but come on, the block has like five cards that give out multiple ally tokens and some of them can do it each turn (Gideon, ally of Zendikar, Captain's Claws and Retreat to Emeria come to mind)
And about a mechanic being parasitic, well, the one that gets the prize should be freakin' Snow, which appears to be useful in like, what, 2 sets? Also, Slivers were one of the most "parasitic" mechanics before they returned for the first time in Legions, and then they appeared just in a total of four sets.
I'm aware that Allies.dec might not make it to a Pro Tour top 8, but I still like that they gave so many good cards to expand the original deck ideas in some new strategies.
Has a blue card before Unity of Purpose directly created and placed +1/+1's on other creatures? Graft, Proliferate, and Shadowmoor stuff is all manipulation of existing counters on creatures.
Multiple times for tribal effects e. g. Dragons, WizardsZombies. Also in cycles like Ordeal of Thassa. Since all colors get small pump effects in the form of Auras you could argue +1/+1 counters in small amounts and tied to a distinct blue effect are alright i. e. Unity of Purpose is alright as long as it uses support as prelude to the untapping, but just support 2 or the same on a cantrip belongs into colors that have +1/+1 counters as a main effect (green and white).
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
The first block after the new block structure has been shown and it already shows its weaknesses.
1) There is not enough room for mechanics to go deep.
No, I think the problem is they feel that every set needs X number of new mechanics. From this thread, it seems most people would've been fine with the mechanics from the last set going forward (landfall, awaken and rally). Surge is the only new thing here worth a damn and can lead to more interesting gameplay. Cohort and Support feel like phoned in filler. It's not a matter of them not having time to go deep; it's them not giving themselves a chance to go deep.
and i thought Ingest was parisitic but Cohort took to a whole new level.And isn't even a good ability because there isn't a good cohort creature in here
I don't know. I like cohort. seems good and fun for limited at least.
So much whining about something being parasitic. EVERY tribal mechanic is parasitic. At least Allies.dec has something to do when it doesn't top deck an another ally. It is actually an odd case of a mechanic that is narrow, but also opens up much more plays than before.
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MTGSalvation; Where the whining is a time honored tradition, and enjoying the game is trolling.
Funny enough, two of my least favorite mechanics recently (Cohort and Inspired) COULD work together well if there wasn't the "ally" restriction.
I love Oath, and although I wish we had gotten some neat processors, I like the idea of showing up for FNM with a mono-wastes deck to wreck face.
"I spend $200 on my manabase."
Cool, bro, I spend $20.
The idea of a pure colorless deck makes me giddy, tbh.
They have never said the following were too powerful in standard Lightning Strike and Shock. I love how people just assume that ***** because oh man we haven't had a shock variant in a few sets and lightning strike is not in standard currently. Do people start claiming that Essence Scatter is too strong for standard? We haven't seen that card in an EVEN LONGER period of time. How about claiming that Opportunity is too strong for standard also, I mean we haven't had that card in quite a while.
Right now standard has a shock variant called Wild Slash and it has a form of lightning strike type card in Draconic Roar. They don't need to throw out a shock and lightning strike variant in every ******* set to prove that they think it's fine in standard.
Except there's a very clear downgrade from Wild Slash/Draconic Roar to Reality Hemorrhage, whereas the power level of conditional counterspells and big draw has remained largely the same, regardless of the specific cards printed. It's not just that Lightning Strike and Shock are absent this block, it's that the closest equivalents all cost one mana extra, or do one damage less. That's why people are wondering what WotC thinks is an appropriate power level for burn in Standard. (Although, the issue is actually not about burn being too powerful, but rather, what creatures can be playable alongside efficient burn.)
When WotC prints a draw four spell that costs seven, then people will start asking if WotC thinks Opportunity is too strong.
If Reality Hemorrhage was just R I would call complete bs on the card, while protection may not be as common as it used to be these types of cards laugh in the face of Pro Red. I mean Ghostfire was 2R because it gets around all that pesky pro red stuff that can really be a huge problem for a RDW style deck. The fact of the matter is usually colorless sources of instant speed damage have the potential to be more potent than colored ones.
Meanwhile if you were to make a devoid Opportunity it really doesn't impact the card much.
I've stayed out of the Rumor Mill until now because I wanted to view the whole spoiler all at once, for the first time.
It came out yesterday, and I'm looking at it now, but I have no idea what the new mana symbol does. It's not explained anywhere on the cards, and I don't see it anywhere here in the Rumor Mill either. What's the secret behind the diamond-shaped mana symbol?
They have never said the following were too powerful in standard Lightning Strike and Shock. I love how people just assume that ***** because oh man we haven't had a shock variant in a few sets and lightning strike is not in standard currently. Do people start claiming that Essence Scatter is too strong for standard? We haven't seen that card in an EVEN LONGER period of time. How about claiming that Opportunity is too strong for standard also, I mean we haven't had that card in quite a while.
Right now standard has a shock variant called Wild Slash and it has a form of lightning strike type card in Draconic Roar. They don't need to throw out a shock and lightning strike variant in every ******* set to prove that they think it's fine in standard.
Except there's a very clear downgrade from Wild Slash/Draconic Roar to Reality Hemorrhage, whereas the power level of conditional counterspells and big draw has remained largely the same, regardless of the specific cards printed. It's not just that Lightning Strike and Shock are absent this block, it's that the closest equivalents all cost one mana extra, or do one damage less. That's why people are wondering what WotC thinks is an appropriate power level for burn in Standard. (Although, the issue is actually not about burn being too powerful, but rather, what creatures can be playable alongside efficient burn.)
When WotC prints a draw four spell that costs seven, then people will start asking if WotC thinks Opportunity is too strong.
This doesn't make a lot of sense. There's no very clear downgrade from Wild Slash to Reality Hemorrhage; they're simply different cards that both happen to do 2 damage. You're probably going to use Wild Slash in Standard because of the cost and you're probably going to use Reality Hemorrhage in Modern because there are very popular "Protection from Red" creatures there. In Limited, you don't have access to Wild Slash so what does it matter what Reality Hemorrhage costs? It costs what makes sense in that environment, and 1R is fine when it kills a large chunk of the things that cost 2.
I could understand the complaint that a lack of cost-efficient burn makes for a frustrating Standard environment, but why complain about that when it hasn't happened yet? In April, we'll know if they decided Wild Slash needs a replacement for that Standard season. Until then, if you want to play Wild Slash just play Wild Slash.
I've stayed out of the Rumor Mill until now because I wanted to view the whole spoiler all at once, for the first time.
It came out yesterday, and I'm looking at it now, but I have no idea what the new mana symbol does. It's not explained anywhere on the cards, and I don't see it anywhere here in the Rumor Mill either. What's the secret behind the diamond-shaped mana symbol?
EDIT: There's no secret. It just means "1 colorless mana." So Sol Ring will now add "< > < >", written as CC.
I've stayed out of the Rumor Mill until now because I wanted to view the whole spoiler all at once, for the first time.
It came out yesterday, and I'm looking at it now, but I have no idea what the new mana symbol does. It's not explained anywhere on the cards, and I don't see it anywhere here in the Rumor Mill either. What's the secret behind the diamond-shaped mana symbol?
It means colorless and can only be payed by colorless mana like Sol Ring and Wastes
The first block after the new block structure has been shown and it already shows its weaknesses.
1) There is not enough room for mechanics to go deep. Awaken, Ingest, Processing, Rally are not represented in Oath which is a shame since a lot of potential for these mechanics has been wasted. The same goes for the new half-hearted mechanics in Oath.
2) Too much of everyhing going on at the same time. Again a lot of things I wanted to see again like the adventure part, a real equipment theme and more is just not fully developed.
3) Too much planeswalker-centric. Again the old Zend block was not ONLY about planeswalkers vs. "threat" but there was enough room to explore the world, its inhabitants and more. Planeswalkers just become medieval power rangers nowadays instead of visitors of exotic planes. I can't see Jace, Chandra, Nissa, Gideon anymore.
4) Too many weaker versions of cards which actually have been totally fine in Standard such as Rampant Growth, Shock (costs 2 mana now lol) and more. I know this is not bound to the new block structure but it still annoys me a lot.
It means colorless and can only be payed by colorless mana like Sol Ring and Wastes
Okay, thanks.
And maybe a question for the staff - maybe could there be a way for others to find this information out? It's not on the spoiler, there's no stickied thread anymore explaining the new set mechanics, and Wizards hasn't updated gatherer yet. I imagine others are in the same boat I was, since the cards on the spoiler don't explain what the symbol means or does.
It means colorless and can only be payed by colorless mana like Sol Ring and Wastes
Okay, thanks.
And maybe a question for the staff - maybe could there be a way for others to find this information out? It's not on the spoiler, there's no stickied thread anymore explaining the new set mechanics, and Wizards hasn't updated gatherer yet. I imagine others are in the same boat I was, since the cards on the spoiler don't explain what the symbol means or does.
Essentially they just tidied up the distinction between generic and colorless. Nothing more, nothing less.
I've stayed out of the Rumor Mill until now because I wanted to view the whole spoiler all at once, for the first time.
It came out yesterday, and I'm looking at it now, but I have no idea what the new mana symbol does. It's not explained anywhere on the cards, and I don't see it anywhere here in the Rumor Mill either. What's the secret behind the diamond-shaped mana symbol?
and i thought Ingest was parisitic but Cohort took to a whole new level.And isn't even a good ability because there isn't a good cohort creature in here
I don't know. I like cohort. seems good and fun for limited at least.
I like the idea of Cohort, but dislike the execution. I wish Allies had kept their theme of being adventuring parties, and that's somewhere that Cohort works well, with the implication being that an adventurer will at least knowing enough about their teammates to assist when asked. But every Cohort ability needs to be balanced around the cost, which is at least "Tap this creature and a 1/1 Ally", and that is where it fails. Compare Malakir Soothsayer to Ob Nixilis Reignited's +1 and the problem is obvious.
The first block after the new block structure has been shown and it already shows its weaknesses.
1) There is not enough room for mechanics to go deep. Awaken, Ingest, Processing, Rally are not represented in Oath which is a shame since a lot of potential for these mechanics has been wasted. The same goes for the new half-hearted mechanics in Oath.
2) Too much of everyhing going on at the same time. Again a lot of things I wanted to see again like the adventure part, a real equipment theme and more is just not fully developed.
3) Too much planeswalker-centric. Again the old Zend block was not ONLY about planeswalkers vs. "threat" but there was enough room to explore the world, its inhabitants and more. Planeswalkers just become medieval power rangers nowadays instead of visitors of exotic planes. I can't see Jace, Chandra, Nissa, Gideon anymore.
4) Too many weaker versions of cards which actually have been totally fine in Standard such as Rampant Growth, Shock (costs 2 mana now lol) and more. I know this is not bound to the new block structure but it still annoys me a lot.
1) This would be more of a possible design mistake than a format weakness. In the old three set block structure, mechanics would get stretched thin by the third set, leading to sets like Rise of the Eldrazi and Avacyn Restored. The two block format allows blocks to be more compact and takes up less design space.
2) Adventuring takes a backseat in this block because of creative. A full Equipment theme wasn't going to happen in a block where there was hardly any room for artifacts, which is why the RW card that represents the archetype simply asks you to control an Equipment. That said, Stone Haven Outfitter and Kazuul's Toll Collector could have some real potential if SOI or the block after provides more good Equipment.
3) Heavens forbid that the game should have some central characters. So four Planeswalkers have formed a group that will serve as our focal heroes for the foreseeable future; what keeps them from visiting exotic new worlds? Then consider that there are many Planeswalkers who aren't part of Gatewatch.
4) If this has nothing to do with the new block structure, you shouldn't be counting it as a weakness of the new block structure.
The first block after the new block structure has been shown and it already shows its weaknesses.
1) There is not enough room for mechanics to go deep.
No, I think the problem is they feel that every set needs X number of new mechanics. From this thread, it seems most people would've been fine with the mechanics from the last set going forward (landfall, awaken and rally). Surge is the only new thing here worth a damn and can lead to more interesting gameplay. Cohort and Support feel like phoned in filler. It's not a matter of them not having time to go deep; it's them not giving themselves a chance to go deep.
Don't forget colorless mana. In Cohort's case, they wanted to give Allies something to do beyond "play Allies and swing". Cohort gives them more utility.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Difference being Cohort isn't even good with allies, having to tap two creatures of the same type and barely getting anything out of it is not a great mechanic.
I'm surprised they didn't have an Eldrazi Scion lord when they had an Eldrazi Spawn lord (Broodwarden).
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I'm still confused as to how Ingest/Process is parasitic.
Cohort, on the other hand, literally only works with one creature type which is found in a grand total of 4 sets, and gives no boon to creatures not of that type (Unlike Rally). THAT is parasitic.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
And about a mechanic being parasitic, well, the one that gets the prize should be freakin' Snow, which appears to be useful in like, what, 2 sets? Also, Slivers were one of the most "parasitic" mechanics before they returned for the first time in Legions, and then they appeared just in a total of four sets.
I'm aware that Allies.dec might not make it to a Pro Tour top 8, but I still like that they gave so many good cards to expand the original deck ideas in some new strategies.
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
Multiple times for tribal effects e. g. Dragons, Wizards Zombies. Also in cycles like Ordeal of Thassa. Since all colors get small pump effects in the form of Auras you could argue +1/+1 counters in small amounts and tied to a distinct blue effect are alright i. e. Unity of Purpose is alright as long as it uses support as prelude to the untapping, but just support 2 or the same on a cantrip belongs into colors that have +1/+1 counters as a main effect (green and white).
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
No, I think the problem is they feel that every set needs X number of new mechanics. From this thread, it seems most people would've been fine with the mechanics from the last set going forward (landfall, awaken and rally). Surge is the only new thing here worth a damn and can lead to more interesting gameplay. Cohort and Support feel like phoned in filler. It's not a matter of them not having time to go deep; it's them not giving themselves a chance to go deep.
Your mods are terrified of me.
I don't know. I like cohort. seems good and fun for limited at least.
I love Oath, and although I wish we had gotten some neat processors, I like the idea of showing up for FNM with a mono-wastes deck to wreck face.
"I spend $200 on my manabase."
Cool, bro, I spend $20.
The idea of a pure colorless deck makes me giddy, tbh.
-Commander-
UBGMill, Sidisi, and Other ShenanigansGBU
WUBRGShingeki no TazriGRBUW
Meanwhile if you were to make a devoid Opportunity it really doesn't impact the card much.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
It came out yesterday, and I'm looking at it now, but I have no idea what the new mana symbol does. It's not explained anywhere on the cards, and I don't see it anywhere here in the Rumor Mill either. What's the secret behind the diamond-shaped mana symbol?
.
This doesn't make a lot of sense. There's no very clear downgrade from Wild Slash to Reality Hemorrhage; they're simply different cards that both happen to do 2 damage. You're probably going to use Wild Slash in Standard because of the cost and you're probably going to use Reality Hemorrhage in Modern because there are very popular "Protection from Red" creatures there. In Limited, you don't have access to Wild Slash so what does it matter what Reality Hemorrhage costs? It costs what makes sense in that environment, and 1R is fine when it kills a large chunk of the things that cost 2.
I could understand the complaint that a lack of cost-efficient burn makes for a frustrating Standard environment, but why complain about that when it hasn't happened yet? In April, we'll know if they decided Wild Slash needs a replacement for that Standard season. Until then, if you want to play Wild Slash just play Wild Slash.
--------------------
EDIT: There's no secret. It just means "1 colorless mana." So Sol Ring will now add "< > < >", written as CC.
It means colorless and can only be payed by colorless mana like Sol Ring and Wastes
This is why i fear for the return to Innistrad
Wild.
So how do mana costs like " <> " differ from " "?
Okay, thanks.
And maybe a question for the staff - maybe could there be a way for others to find this information out? It's not on the spoiler, there's no stickied thread anymore explaining the new set mechanics, and Wizards hasn't updated gatherer yet. I imagine others are in the same boat I was, since the cards on the spoiler don't explain what the symbol means or does.
.
can be payed with any color
<> can only be payed with colorless mana
Warden of Geometries
(C Represents colorless mana)
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
I like the idea of Cohort, but dislike the execution. I wish Allies had kept their theme of being adventuring parties, and that's somewhere that Cohort works well, with the implication being that an adventurer will at least knowing enough about their teammates to assist when asked. But every Cohort ability needs to be balanced around the cost, which is at least "Tap this creature and a 1/1 Ally", and that is where it fails. Compare Malakir Soothsayer to Ob Nixilis Reignited's +1 and the problem is obvious.
1) This would be more of a possible design mistake than a format weakness. In the old three set block structure, mechanics would get stretched thin by the third set, leading to sets like Rise of the Eldrazi and Avacyn Restored. The two block format allows blocks to be more compact and takes up less design space.
2) Adventuring takes a backseat in this block because of creative. A full Equipment theme wasn't going to happen in a block where there was hardly any room for artifacts, which is why the RW card that represents the archetype simply asks you to control an Equipment. That said, Stone Haven Outfitter and Kazuul's Toll Collector could have some real potential if SOI or the block after provides more good Equipment.
3) Heavens forbid that the game should have some central characters. So four Planeswalkers have formed a group that will serve as our focal heroes for the foreseeable future; what keeps them from visiting exotic new worlds? Then consider that there are many Planeswalkers who aren't part of Gatewatch.
4) If this has nothing to do with the new block structure, you shouldn't be counting it as a weakness of the new block structure.
Don't forget colorless mana. In Cohort's case, they wanted to give Allies something to do beyond "play Allies and swing". Cohort gives them more utility.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
1 can be paid with any color or colorless