Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
This card is absolutely bonkers. What this card can hit:
This will most likely show up in Standard in some form, I won't go in to this.
Creatures: Deathrite Shaman, Stoneforge Mystic, , Ichorid, Dread Return, Thalia, Young Pyromancer, Spellskite, Dark Confidant, Deceiver Exarch, Pestermite, Pretty much any elf, Jace Vryns Prodigy, Mother of Runes (or stuff it might want to protect?)
Sorcery: Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Hymn to Tourach, Natural Order, Green Sun's Zenith, Show And Tell, Dread Return, Infernal Tutor, Past in Flames, Entreet the Angels, Terminus, Pyroclasm.
Plus it can be a creature: Maybe you need to block, maybe you need to sacrifice a creature for say... natural order?
Or it can ramp you? Say what..... Removal, Counter, Creature, Ramp? This card pretty much does it all right?
Dimir Charm already had counter sorcery and it was terrible.
Dimir Charm is blue, and yes blue has better counterspells.... It's EVERY other color that wants this. This card is going to shake up several formats.
I feel like people are missing a critical point of logic here. If you're splashing colorless that's very similar to splashing another color. *Most* competitive decks do not have a significant source of their mana pool devoted to colorless mana, even mono color decks (which are in the minority of competitive decks). You need roughly 13 colorless sources in your deck to reliably cast this card on turn two (As per this amazing article everyone should read).
This means you can't just use the smattering of colorless utility lands that decks normally use like Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, Desolate Lighthouse, etc., but also some combination of painlands+filterlands. You also have no way to fetch colorless sources unless your playing Evolving Wilds + Wastes. If you go to all this trouble to make your landbase efficiently cast colorless spells, why not splash blue to begin with? It would be a lot easier given the fetchland base available to all formats right now.
Dimir Charm already had counter sorcery and it was terrible.
Dimir Charm is blue, and yes blue has better counterspells.... It's EVERY other color that wants this. This card is going to shake up several formats.
I feel like people are missing a critical point of logic here. If you're splashing colorless that's very similar to splashing another color. *Most* competitive decks do not have a significant source of their mana pool devoted to colorless mana, even mono color decks (which are in the minority of competitive decks). You need roughly 13 colorless sources in your deck to reliably cast this card on turn two (As per this amazing article everyone should read).
This means you can't just use the smattering of colorless utility lands that decks normally use like Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, Desolate Lighthouse, etc., but also some combination of painlands+filterlands. You also have no way to fetch colorless sources unless your playing Evolving Wilds + Wastes. If you go to all this trouble to make your landbase efficiently cast colorless spells, why not splash blue to begin with? It would be a lot easier given the fetchland base available to all formats right now.
I feel like people are missing a critical point of logic here. Evaluating this card solely based on 1 format, Standard, while also ignoring the ramifications of this card in other formats like draft, modern, legacy, vintage, and EDH. There's a ton of lands that can cast this efficiently outside the small amount of lands you named. That article you reference, without actually looking at the link, is probably an old article, a pretty old article, about mana curve based off of standard. If it's the article I'm thinking about it just can't be used in this instance.
Remember that fetches + shocklands are used because in combination they can allow a single ETB land to produce any color in a 3 or 4 color deck. What colorless additions do to that is not add a fourth color or fifth color to Jund or Grixis, but rather cut the weakest color and replace the shocks + fetches.
For example, take Jund/Abzan. The core colors are BG. Add colorless, and you need lands that can produce BG and colorless. Pains and filters do both, replacing the ~8 fetches in the deck. 1 Evolving Wilds + Waste might also be used. Additionally you can use Tainted Wood, Cavern of Souls, and Tendo Ice Bridge.
In a 24 land manabase, you could do something like:
Could tweak colorless only producers as wished (inkmoth/blinkmoth, other utility, etc.). Modern is defined by BGx and URx decks, so I think it is fairly reasonable to say that a BG/C or UR/C deck could be viable given the plethora of strong colorless cards we've seen. And of course, this is both easier to cast and much stronger in vintage and maybe legacy where sol lands are available.
Dimir Charm already had counter sorcery and it was terrible.
Dimir Charm is blue, and yes blue has better counterspells.... It's EVERY other color that wants this. This card is going to shake up several formats.
I feel like people are missing a critical point of logic here. If you're splashing colorless that's very similar to splashing another color. *Most* competitive decks do not have a significant source of their mana pool devoted to colorless mana, even mono color decks (which are in the minority of competitive decks). You need roughly 13 colorless sources in your deck to reliably cast this card on turn two (As per this amazing article everyone should read).
This means you can't just use the smattering of colorless utility lands that decks normally use like Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, Desolate Lighthouse, etc., but also some combination of painlands+filterlands. You also have no way to fetch colorless sources unless your playing Evolving Wilds + Wastes. If you go to all this trouble to make your landbase efficiently cast colorless spells, why not splash blue to begin with? It would be a lot easier given the fetchland base available to all formats right now.
I feel like people are missing a critical point of logic here. Evaluating this card solely based on 1 format, Standard, while also ignoring the ramifications of this card in other formats like draft, modern, legacy, vintage, and EDH. There's a ton of lands that can cast this efficiently outside the small amount of lands you named. That article you reference, without actually looking at the link, is probably an old article, a pretty old article, about mana curve based off of standard. If it's the article I'm thinking about it just can't be used in this instance.
Wow. I don't think I've had someone blatantly disregard the words in my post to this extent before. I'm almost flabbergasted. Most of the cards I mentioned are not legal in standard. The cards I did mention are some of the most played colorless sources in Modern (excluding Tron). In fact I was purely basing my post for Modern play in mind actually.
Secondly, how hard is it to look at a provided link? You especially can't write it off if you've never read it? It literally analyzes manabases from limited all the way to EDH, and its primary examples are from Modern decks! Its conclusions are directly related to amount of sources you need to reliably play a spell in any format. If you do not have the right amount of sources to cast a certain color spell that spell might end up very often dead in your hand, which is a huge ramification.
I think I may have understated "missing a critical point of logic here".
The first time I read this I thought it only said power. Then I read the toughness part. Then I realized it has two other potential abilities tacked on, one of which is basically ramp. This card might not be a staple but it definitely deserves some sideboard consideration. Definitely good in standard to deal with Jace.
Remember that fetches + shocklands are used because in combination they can allow a single ETB land to produce any color in a 3 or 4 color deck. What colorless additions do to that is not add a fourth color or fifth color to Jund or Grixis, but rather cut the weakest color and replace the shocks + fetches.
For example, take Jund/Abzan. The core colors are BG. Add colorless, and you need lands that can produce BG and colorless. Pains and filters do both, replacing the ~8 fetches in the deck. 1 Evolving Wilds + Waste might also be used. Additionally you can use Tainted Wood, Cavern of Souls, and Tendo Ice Bridge.
In a 24 land manabase, you could do something like:
Could tweak colorless only producers as wished (inkmoth/blinkmoth, other utility, etc.). Modern is defined by BGx and URx decks, so I think it is fairly reasonable to say that a BG/C or UR/C deck could be viable given the plethora of strong colorless cards we've seen. And of course, this is both easier to cast and much stronger in vintage and maybe legacy where sol lands are available.
Right but that's what I was saying, you're essentially splashing another color, but in this case it's colorless. You even suffer some extra ramifications that come from playing a large amount of filterlands in which there will be games where your hand has Filter + colorless land, stranding you with no color. Happens much more often than you think, even with less colorless sources than you have in that sample list right now (this is from experience). Then take into account that 3 of your colorless utility lands sacrifice themselves.
This all comes with the question of is BG<> really that much better than the more stable BG (The most successful version to my knowledge goes all in on Phyrexian Obliterator), or the proven Jund/Abzan. Of course that remains to be seen as we haven't seen all of the colorless cards, but I'm not so sure.
Remember that fetches + shocklands are used because in combination they can allow a single ETB land to produce any color in a 3 or 4 color deck. What colorless additions do to that is not add a fourth color or fifth color to Jund or Grixis, but rather cut the weakest color and replace the shocks + fetches.
For example, take Jund/Abzan. The core colors are BG. Add colorless, and you need lands that can produce BG and colorless. Pains and filters do both, replacing the ~8 fetches in the deck. 1 Evolving Wilds + Waste might also be used. Additionally you can use Tainted Wood, Cavern of Souls, and Tendo Ice Bridge.
In a 24 land manabase, you could do something like:
Could tweak colorless only producers as wished (inkmoth/blinkmoth, other utility, etc.). Modern is defined by BGx and URx decks, so I think it is fairly reasonable to say that a BG/C or UR/C deck could be viable given the plethora of strong colorless cards we've seen. And of course, this is both easier to cast and much stronger in vintage and maybe legacy where sol lands are available.
Right but that's what I was saying, you're essentially splashing another color, but in this case it's colorless. You even suffer some extra ramifications that come from playing a large amount of filterlands in which there will be games where your hand has Filter + colorless land, stranding you with no color. Happens much more often than you think, even with less colorless sources than you have in that sample list right now (this is from experience). Then take into account that 3 of your colorless utility lands sacrifice themselves.
This all comes with the question of is BG<> really that much better than the more stable BG (The most successful version to my knowledge goes all in on Phyrexian Obliterator), or the proven Jund/Abzan. Of course that remains to be seen as we haven't seen all of the colorless cards, but I'm not so sure.
There is another option. Monocolor + C. For instance, for B/C we could run:
4 Caves of the Koilos
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Underground River
4 Swamp
2 Colorless utility
1 Waste
1 Evolving Wilds
Giving you 20 ETB untapped black sources, 19 ETB untapped colorless sources, and a decent amount of basics to beat nonbasic land hate. If you wanted go all-in on colorless, this is a way to do so and still cast things like Phyrexian Obliterator. Any monocolor + colorless can run with 0 filters and can use the 16 painlands as if they were almost OG duals. Perhaps with Nykthos as the colorless utility land for ramp, or one of the new cards (Crumbling Vestige, Holdout Settlement with Eldrazi Scions).
For reference, these are the colorless/devoid cards in each color that are semi-relevant:
Pure colorless: New Kozilek, Spatial Contortion (+3/-3), Eldrazi Mimic (base P/T copier on ally creature ETB), Warping Wail, Reality Smasher (5/5, trample/haste, pseudo-hexproof), Thought-Knot Seer (Eldrazi Vendillion Clique), Endbringer (pseudo-Vigilance + 3 utility tap effects), + BFZ cards
White: Eldrazi Displacer (tapper + blinker)
Blue: Void Crush (Eldrazi Dissipate)
Black: Bearer of Silence (Eldrazi Gatekeeper of Malakir), Flaying Tendrils (-2/-2 all creatures + exile), Inverter of Truth (beater with Paradigm Shift downside or Lab Maniac combo card)
Red: Kozilek's Return (instant-speed 3CMC Pyroclasm + bonus)
Green: Scion Summoner (name, generic 3-drop), Vile Redeemer (Eldrazi Caller of the Claw; also ramps), World Breaker (Eldrazi repeatable Acidic Slime)
Multi: BRFlayer Drone (colorless Purphoros), UB Mindmelter (repeatable hand-destruction), UG Void Grafter (flash give hexproof)
I mention this not as an argumentative thing but just to theorycraft. I think they've done a good enough job of pushing colorless that we'll either see it as third color in basic shells or as a second color in new shells that will revolve around a main color. Just talking out loud, I think UR/C might be super appealing if it gets enough because of Herald of Kozilek, and otherwise I think the mono-colors go B>G>U>R>W in terms of their potential. Other multi-color combos to be seen, though BG and BW are the two biggest suspects.
This could potentially see sideboard play in Legacy decks that can consistently create colorless mana (like Cloudpost). Getting rid of unflipped Delvers, Stoneforges, Deathrite Shamans, Thalias, etc. is going to be sweet, and it counters stuff like Show and Tell.
It also has the added benefit of making your mom cry.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Filter lands and pain lands can produce colorless. So does tec edge, and mutavault.
I can see this card warping modern easily. Monocolor decks can play 6-8 filters to get colorless and not impact their mana at all.
2 and 3 color decks can do the same.
Tron will probably play a 4oof mainboard since it stops their worst matchups, affinity and combo.
This card is terrible in legacy....but modern will see it everywhere. As will edh....
Tron will probably play a 4oof mainboard since it stops their worst matchups, affinity and combo.
I can definitely see them sideboarding it but 4 main? What would come out, the base Tron list is already very powerful and tight. I don't see this making the cut except maybe as a 1-of.
Really disappointed in wiz for screwing the colour pie even more when I had hoped for the exact opposite. The existence of this card should lead to a really solid white weenie deck in standard that cares nothing about end hostilities.
Its weird that this is a wall...not sure I get the flavor exactly.
But looking at the art, I guess Eldrazi can produce Absolute Terror Fields like true ballers lol
EDIT: OHHHHHH WAIL not WALL!....fail....this card makes much more sense to me now....ill go put my dunce cap back on again
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
The world is on fire
and you are here to stay and burn with me.
This will most likely show up in Standard in some form, I won't go in to this.
Creatures: Deathrite Shaman, Stoneforge Mystic, , Ichorid, Dread Return, Thalia, Young Pyromancer, Spellskite, Dark Confidant, Deceiver Exarch, Pestermite, Pretty much any elf, Jace Vryns Prodigy, Mother of Runes (or stuff it might want to protect?)
Sorcery: Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Hymn to Tourach, Natural Order, Green Sun's Zenith, Show And Tell, Dread Return, Infernal Tutor, Past in Flames, Entreet the Angels, Terminus, Pyroclasm.
Plus it can be a creature: Maybe you need to block, maybe you need to sacrifice a creature for say... natural order?
Or it can ramp you? Say what..... Removal, Counter, Creature, Ramp? This card pretty much does it all right?
This means you can't just use the smattering of colorless utility lands that decks normally use like Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, Desolate Lighthouse, etc., but also some combination of painlands+filterlands. You also have no way to fetch colorless sources unless your playing Evolving Wilds + Wastes. If you go to all this trouble to make your landbase efficiently cast colorless spells, why not splash blue to begin with? It would be a lot easier given the fetchland base available to all formats right now.
I feel like people are missing a critical point of logic here. Evaluating this card solely based on 1 format, Standard, while also ignoring the ramifications of this card in other formats like draft, modern, legacy, vintage, and EDH. There's a ton of lands that can cast this efficiently outside the small amount of lands you named. That article you reference, without actually looking at the link, is probably an old article, a pretty old article, about mana curve based off of standard. If it's the article I'm thinking about it just can't be used in this instance.
For example, take Jund/Abzan. The core colors are BG. Add colorless, and you need lands that can produce BG and colorless. Pains and filters do both, replacing the ~8 fetches in the deck. 1 Evolving Wilds + Waste might also be used. Additionally you can use Tainted Wood, Cavern of Souls, and Tendo Ice Bridge.
In a 24 land manabase, you could do something like:
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Evolving Wilds
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Twilight Mire
1 Tendo Ice Bridge
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Waste
18B, 17G, 13C
Could tweak colorless only producers as wished (inkmoth/blinkmoth, other utility, etc.). Modern is defined by BGx and URx decks, so I think it is fairly reasonable to say that a BG/C or UR/C deck could be viable given the plethora of strong colorless cards we've seen. And of course, this is both easier to cast and much stronger in vintage and maybe legacy where sol lands are available.
Secondly, how hard is it to look at a provided link? You especially can't write it off if you've never read it? It literally analyzes manabases from limited all the way to EDH, and its primary examples are from Modern decks! Its conclusions are directly related to amount of sources you need to reliably play a spell in any format. If you do not have the right amount of sources to cast a certain color spell that spell might end up very often dead in your hand, which is a huge ramification.
I think I may have understated "missing a critical point of logic here".
I think it's serviceable, but not fantastic.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
This all comes with the question of is BG<> really that much better than the more stable BG (The most successful version to my knowledge goes all in on Phyrexian Obliterator), or the proven Jund/Abzan. Of course that remains to be seen as we haven't seen all of the colorless cards, but I'm not so sure.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I think this is worse than some of the three-color charms, but it is probably the best 2-mana one.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This is an astute point, plus it counters Salts/Crumble. Pretty annoying. Such a loathsome deck.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
There is another option. Monocolor + C. For instance, for B/C we could run:
4 Caves of the Koilos
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Underground River
4 Swamp
2 Colorless utility
1 Waste
1 Evolving Wilds
Giving you 20 ETB untapped black sources, 19 ETB untapped colorless sources, and a decent amount of basics to beat nonbasic land hate. If you wanted go all-in on colorless, this is a way to do so and still cast things like Phyrexian Obliterator. Any monocolor + colorless can run with 0 filters and can use the 16 painlands as if they were almost OG duals. Perhaps with Nykthos as the colorless utility land for ramp, or one of the new cards (Crumbling Vestige, Holdout Settlement with Eldrazi Scions).
For reference, these are the colorless/devoid cards in each color that are semi-relevant:
Pure colorless: New Kozilek, Spatial Contortion (+3/-3), Eldrazi Mimic (base P/T copier on ally creature ETB), Warping Wail, Reality Smasher (5/5, trample/haste, pseudo-hexproof), Thought-Knot Seer (Eldrazi Vendillion Clique), Endbringer (pseudo-Vigilance + 3 utility tap effects), + BFZ cards
White: Eldrazi Displacer (tapper + blinker)
Blue: Void Crush (Eldrazi Dissipate)
Black: Bearer of Silence (Eldrazi Gatekeeper of Malakir), Flaying Tendrils (-2/-2 all creatures + exile), Inverter of Truth (beater with Paradigm Shift downside or Lab Maniac combo card)
Red: Kozilek's Return (instant-speed 3CMC Pyroclasm + bonus)
Green: Scion Summoner (name, generic 3-drop), Vile Redeemer (Eldrazi Caller of the Claw; also ramps), World Breaker (Eldrazi repeatable Acidic Slime)
Multi: BRFlayer Drone (colorless Purphoros), UB Mindmelter (repeatable hand-destruction), UG Void Grafter (flash give hexproof)
I mention this not as an argumentative thing but just to theorycraft. I think they've done a good enough job of pushing colorless that we'll either see it as third color in basic shells or as a second color in new shells that will revolve around a main color. Just talking out loud, I think UR/C might be super appealing if it gets enough because of Herald of Kozilek, and otherwise I think the mono-colors go B>G>U>R>W in terms of their potential. Other multi-color combos to be seen, though BG and BW are the two biggest suspects.
Cōnservātum album delenda est.
It also has the added benefit of making your mom cry.
"I'll Warping Wail your Mother of Runes."
"In response, I'll tap Mother of Runes, giving it protection from..."
"From...?"
"...Crap"
I can see this card warping modern easily. Monocolor decks can play 6-8 filters to get colorless and not impact their mana at all.
2 and 3 color decks can do the same.
Tron will probably play a 4oof mainboard since it stops their worst matchups, affinity and combo.
This card is terrible in legacy....but modern will see it everywhere. As will edh....
I can definitely see them sideboarding it but 4 main? What would come out, the base Tron list is already very powerful and tight. I don't see this making the cut except maybe as a 1-of.
Its weird that this is a wall...not sure I get the flavor exactly.
But looking at the art, I guess Eldrazi can produce Absolute Terror Fields like true ballers lol
EDIT: OHHHHHH WAIL not WALL!....fail....this card makes much more sense to me now....ill go put my dunce cap back on again
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.