I think this is a bit overrated. If your opponent has no cards/only lands/only bad cards in hand you're helping him. How good this is really relies on how early you can cast it vs a lot of decks.
How is it bad when your opponent is hellbent and facing a 4/4 beatstick?
Depends on the board state and the next card(s) your opponent draws, if it's removal it now cantrips. In a hellbent situation that can make a pretty big difference.
I feel old. I remember when a 4/4 for 4 in green, the giant creature color, was good with very little in the way of abilities. Now you get it in colorless (not even a high colorless requirement), and it has a black effect. And you get "green" 5/5s for 5 in colorless with a mainly red (haste is tertiary green I believe, though it may be secondary) and a blue ability (the counter if targeted clause). I realize that it is harder to splash these than the usual generically colorless cards, just like splashing green in a red deck for some finishing beaters, but it seems weird that their answer to colorless's color pie is to just take aspects of all the other colors and mix them in ways you couldn't get outside multicolor normally (ie: a "green" body and cost with a "blue" (maybe crossed in black?) ability tacked on) and at a great value price. For the pricing they basically take the value of if these had been multicolored it feels like the 5/5 for 5 which would not have felt out of place in Timur as 2GUR.
4/4s for 4 in green were never good. Onslaught had the first all-upside one (Ravenous Baloth) and it saw play because of the lifegain and tribal synergies. Coldsnap and Dissension had all-upside 4/4s for 4 in green that were bulk rares.
This card isn't rubbish but it isn't great either.
This is not Vendillion Clique, but it is still really awesome! 4 mana 4/4 with a good ability, especially one with synergy potential is ok in my book
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The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
4/4s for 4 in green were never good. Onslaught had the first all-upside one (Ravenous Baloth) and it saw play because of the lifegain and tribal synergies. Coldsnap and Dissension had all-upside 4/4s for 4 in green that were bulk rares.
This card isn't rubbish but it isn't great either.
Erhnam Djinn (a 4/5 not 4/4, but still) was a staple in an early Vintage World Championship list as I recall.
Im sure its come up before, but do these new eldrazi remind anyone else of Angles from Evangelion, what with the colors and appendages and freaky eyeballs? Walker of the wastes looks like a monster from a Miazaki movie or something, too. Some of them have a generic kinda Eldrazi feel to em, but ones like this are really sweet
The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
These C-cost Eldrazi sure are efficient, aren't they? O_O
Outside of EDH, there aren't many cards dedicated to specifically producing colorless mana. (In EDH, so long as you aren't playing five-color commanders, "mana of any color" and choosing an off-color mana is sufficient.) Though the ones that do exist are more efficient than colored mana; compare Mind Stone to cluestones, for instance. And colorless is more efficient than any color; again, compare Palladium Myr to Alloy Myr.
In limited, you have to only use the colorless sources provided to you.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Im sure its come up before, but do these new eldrazi remind anyone else of Angles from Evangelion, what with the colors and appendages and freaky eyeballs? Walker of the wastes looks like a monster from a Miazaki movie or something, too. Some of them have a generic kinda Eldrazi feel to em, but ones like this are really sweet
That's because the Ulamog spawn are all with the faceless skulls, skinless muscles showing through their skeletons, arms bifurcated at the elbows with human-like torsos and suckerless or spiked tentacles; while the spawn of Kozilek have mostly insectile or animalistic shapes, exoskeleton-plated bodies and generally lack heads, having eyes on their limbs instead and mouths where their necks are supossed to be (They also have those black sharp stuff near the hollow place their heads would be located).
Emrakul's spawn are more like fish or jellyfish-shaped things, full of tentacles and fins and generally have spongy-looking flesh.
Ulamog spawn turn stuff into dust, Kozilek's turn things into bismuth-like crystals and oil-like fluids, and according to mtg's wiki the Emrakul's brood turns stuff into bloody pulsating flesh-and-bone distorted stuff.
Hmm the more I'm looking at it, the more I'm really liking it. Seems good in standard once rhino is finally gone, but I think it really has a lot of potential in the modern eldrazi deck, if that isn't just a massive hype for nothing (looking at eye of ugins and eldrazi temples price tag).
t1 eldrazi mimic with eye of ugin or eldrazi temple, t2 another temple or the eye, cast thought-knot seer, steal their best card and swing for 4 seems very promising in theory. It's no clique, sure, but it dodges bolt as well as decay and if your deck is full of eldrazi anyway why not just run cavern of souls to make that guy uncounterable. Definitely picking up 4 foils if the price is right.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
4/4s for 4 in green were never good. Onslaught had the first all-upside one (Ravenous Baloth) and it saw play because of the lifegain and tribal synergies. Coldsnap and Dissension had all-upside 4/4s for 4 in green that were bulk rares.
This card isn't rubbish but it isn't great either.
Erhnam Djinn (a 4/5 not 4/4, but still) was a staple in an early Vintage World Championship list as I recall.
It (like Nettletooth Djinn) were run because they were so strong alongside Armageddon. That says more about Armageddon's power than anything else.
Also, Magic deckbuilders were just bad then (compared to today). Every piece of the Cocoa Pebbles (Enduring Renewal - Goblin Bombardment - 0 mana creature combo, using Necropotence to draw the combo) deck existed when Tempest was released - it wasn't "found" until about 2 years later. Ernham would see a lot less play if the metagame of the day had been subject to as much playtesting as happens now.
I feel old. I remember when a 4/4 for 4 in green, the giant creature color, was good with very little in the way of abilities. Now you get it in colorless (not even a high colorless requirement), and it has a black effect. And you get "green" 5/5s for 5 in colorless with a mainly red (haste is tertiary green I believe, though it may be secondary) and a blue ability (the counter if targeted clause). I realize that it is harder to splash these than the usual generically colorless cards, just like splashing green in a red deck for some finishing beaters, but it seems weird that their answer to colorless's color pie is to just take aspects of all the other colors and mix them in ways you couldn't get outside multicolor normally (ie: a "green" body and cost with a "blue" (maybe crossed in black?) ability tacked on) and at a great value price. For the pricing they basically take the value of if these had been multicolored it feels like the 5/5 for 5 which would not have felt out of place in Timur as 2GUR.
4/4s for 4 in green were never good. Onslaught had the first all-upside one (Ravenous Baloth) and it saw play because of the lifegain and tribal synergies. Coldsnap and Dissension had all-upside 4/4s for 4 in green that were bulk rares.
This card isn't rubbish but it isn't great either.
You aren't thinking "old" right. Erhnam Djinn saw quite a lot of play (yeah, 4/5, I know), for instance, and Blastoderm was considered borderline OP in Fires of Yavimaya decks...
4/4s for 4 in green were never good. Onslaught had the first all-upside one (Ravenous Baloth) and it saw play because of the lifegain and tribal synergies. Coldsnap and Dissension had all-upside 4/4s for 4 in green that were bulk rares.
This card isn't rubbish but it isn't great either.
Erhnam Djinn (a 4/5 not 4/4, but still) was a staple in an early Vintage World Championship list as I recall.
It (like Nettletooth Djinn) were run because they were so strong alongside Armageddon. That says more about Armageddon's power than anything else.
Also, Magic deckbuilders were just bad then (compared to today). Every piece of the Cocoa Pebbles (Enduring Renewal - Goblin Bombardment - 0 mana creature combo, using Necropotence to draw the combo) deck existed when Tempest was released - it wasn't "found" until about 2 years later. Ernham would see a lot less play if the metagame of the day had been subject to as much playtesting as happens now.
Except that Erhnageddon was not the only deck to run Ernie. There were also the Erhnam and burn 'em decks that didn't run Armageddon at all. I'm not sure why the Tempest era meta is even relevant; Ernie was out way before that. I think you are underestimating just how bad creatures were back then.
Anyway, this creature looks great. Solid body at a good rate with a great disruptive ETB ability. As others have said, it's probably not as good as Clique, but the fact that it is even comparable means it should see a fair amount of play.
Im sure its come up before, but do these new eldrazi remind anyone else of Angles from Evangelion, what with the colors and appendages and freaky eyeballs? Walker of the wastes looks like a monster from a Miazaki movie or something, too. Some of them have a generic kinda Eldrazi feel to em, but ones like this are really sweet
That's because the Ulamog spawn are all with the faceless skulls, skinless muscles showing through their skeletons, arms bifurcated at the elbows with human-like torsos and suckerless or spiked tentacles; while the spawn of Kozilek have mostly insectile or animalistic shapes, exoskeleton-plated bodies and generally lack heads, having eyes on their limbs instead and mouths where their necks are supossed to be (They also have those black sharp stuff near the hollow place their heads would be located).
Emrakul's spawn are more like fish or jellyfish-shaped things, full of tentacles and fins and generally have spongy-looking flesh.
Ulamog spawn turn stuff into dust, Kozilek's turn things into bismuth-like crystals and oil-like fluids, and according to mtg's wiki the Emrakul's brood turns stuff into bloody pulsating flesh-and-bone distorted stuff.
A great summation of the differences between brood lineages, thank you! :):)
I just meant that even with those brood distinctions, some of the eldrazi have a very similar feel in the art, so much so that you could interchange the art on the card and people might not notice. Others, however, use the same aesthetic cues to place them firmly into a brood, but still look and feel unique and cool. Eldrazi displacer is kinda blah imo, whereas others like thought-knot seer and walker of the wastes and bearer of silence are all really cool and different while also clearly kozi-babies.
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The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
4/4s for 4 in green were never good. Onslaught had the first all-upside one (Ravenous Baloth) and it saw play because of the lifegain and tribal synergies. Coldsnap and Dissension had all-upside 4/4s for 4 in green that were bulk rares.
This card isn't rubbish but it isn't great either.
Erhnam Djinn (a 4/5 not 4/4, but still) was a staple in an early Vintage World Championship list as I recall.
It (like Nettletooth Djinn) were run because they were so strong alongside Armageddon. That says more about Armageddon's power than anything else.
Also, Magic deckbuilders were just bad then (compared to today). Every piece of the Cocoa Pebbles (Enduring Renewal - Goblin Bombardment - 0 mana creature combo, using Necropotence to draw the combo) deck existed when Tempest was released - it wasn't "found" until about 2 years later. Ernham would see a lot less play if the metagame of the day had been subject to as much playtesting as happens now.
Except that Erhnageddon was not the only deck to run Ernie. There were also the Erhnam and burn 'em decks that didn't run Armageddon at all. I'm not sure why the Tempest era meta is even relevant; Ernie was out way before that. I think you are underestimating just how bad creatures were back then.
Anyway, this creature looks great. Solid body at a good rate with a great disruptive ETB ability. As others have said, it's probably not as good as Clique, but the fact that it is even comparable means it should see a fair amount of play.
It was a time when Serra Angel was *the* white win-con in constructed, and Sligh ran creatures such as Brass Man to have a curve. People really don't realize how bad creatures were then, and Ernham Djinn was absurdly good in comparison.
Is it just me or this can go on Titan Bloom in modern ? My list has 7 colorless fonts already and i could play it as a 2 off in sideboard... It has utility and a good body. I could work out to at least remove removal or counters before seaching the Titan, and would not have to take mulligans to find a way to combo out and protect myself.
If you blink him, you can stack the abilities as you wish, right? So your opponent can draw the card before you exile one.
Also, best art of the set so far. Must be amazing in foil.
You might be correct here not entirely sure, but you very well might be. I'm going to ask one of the judges at the draft tonight.
Your outcome is correct but your reasoning is wrong. You will never get to choose the order his abilities go on the stack because they both trigger at different times, however if you blink him with his first ability still on the stack the second one will resolve first, he will draw, and then you pick one to exile.
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"It's like some kind of Voltron... made of elephants??"
Seer looks decent in Bx Eldrazi, but I'm not certain if he really solves any of the problems the deck has, notably an inability to deal with lots of small critters or Scapeshift.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Seer looks decent in Bx Eldrazi, but I'm not certain if he really solves any of the problems the deck has, notably an inability to deal with lots of small critters or Scapeshift.
This is the exact card the deck needed. An early creature that can disrupt the opponent as early as turn 2 while having a 4/4 body that can block early creatures and not die to bolt or abrupt decay.
Seer looks decent in Bx Eldrazi, but I'm not certain if he really solves any of the problems the deck has, notably an inability to deal with lots of small critters or Scapeshift.
This is the exact card the deck needed. An early creature that can disrupt the opponent as early as turn 2 while having a 4/4 body that can block early creatures and not die to bolt or abrupt decay.
I play a lot of Bx Eldrazi and I'm not certain if I agree. You can only play him on turn 2 with a few hands- specifically, Eldrazi Temple -> Eldrazi Temple or Eye of Ugin -> Eldrazi Temple. In both of these hands, you don't have any colored mana for disruption or removal. For Affinity's turn 3, they are going to fly over TNS and hit for a bazillion damage, while Infect will probably be able to pump for lethal on Inkmoth or Agent. However, TNS seems to improve another problematic matchup- Merfolk. He eats any fish that comes in on turn 2 or 3 and exiles the best lord in their hand, while Wasteland Strangler is probably only going to trade 1 for 1 in combat.
Card is going to be played, that's for certain. I still think the fastest of fast aggro is going to be a real challenge for the deck. As for Abrupt Decay, Bx Eldrazi beats any Abrupt Decay deck pretty easily even without TNS.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
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UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
Depends on the board state and the next card(s) your opponent draws, if it's removal it now cantrips. In a hellbent situation that can make a pretty big difference.
4/4s for 4 in green were never good. Onslaught had the first all-upside one (Ravenous Baloth) and it saw play because of the lifegain and tribal synergies. Coldsnap and Dissension had all-upside 4/4s for 4 in green that were bulk rares.
This card isn't rubbish but it isn't great either.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Also, best art of the set so far. Must be amazing in foil.
Erhnam Djinn (a 4/5 not 4/4, but still) was a staple in an early Vintage World Championship list as I recall.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Outside of EDH, there aren't many cards dedicated to specifically producing colorless mana. (In EDH, so long as you aren't playing five-color commanders, "mana of any color" and choosing an off-color mana is sufficient.) Though the ones that do exist are more efficient than colored mana; compare Mind Stone to cluestones, for instance. And colorless is more efficient than any color; again, compare Palladium Myr to Alloy Myr.
In limited, you have to only use the colorless sources provided to you.
On phasing:
That's because the Ulamog spawn are all with the faceless skulls, skinless muscles showing through their skeletons, arms bifurcated at the elbows with human-like torsos and suckerless or spiked tentacles; while the spawn of Kozilek have mostly insectile or animalistic shapes, exoskeleton-plated bodies and generally lack heads, having eyes on their limbs instead and mouths where their necks are supossed to be (They also have those black sharp stuff near the hollow place their heads would be located).
Emrakul's spawn are more like fish or jellyfish-shaped things, full of tentacles and fins and generally have spongy-looking flesh.
Ulamog spawn turn stuff into dust, Kozilek's turn things into bismuth-like crystals and oil-like fluids, and according to mtg's wiki the Emrakul's brood turns stuff into bloody pulsating flesh-and-bone distorted stuff.
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
t1 eldrazi mimic with eye of ugin or eldrazi temple, t2 another temple or the eye, cast thought-knot seer, steal their best card and swing for 4 seems very promising in theory. It's no clique, sure, but it dodges bolt as well as decay and if your deck is full of eldrazi anyway why not just run cavern of souls to make that guy uncounterable. Definitely picking up 4 foils if the price is right.
It (like Nettletooth Djinn) were run because they were so strong alongside Armageddon. That says more about Armageddon's power than anything else.
Also, Magic deckbuilders were just bad then (compared to today). Every piece of the Cocoa Pebbles (Enduring Renewal - Goblin Bombardment - 0 mana creature combo, using Necropotence to draw the combo) deck existed when Tempest was released - it wasn't "found" until about 2 years later. Ernham would see a lot less play if the metagame of the day had been subject to as much playtesting as happens now.
You aren't thinking "old" right. Erhnam Djinn saw quite a lot of play (yeah, 4/5, I know), for instance, and Blastoderm was considered borderline OP in Fires of Yavimaya decks...
Anyway, this creature looks great. Solid body at a good rate with a great disruptive ETB ability. As others have said, it's probably not as good as Clique, but the fact that it is even comparable means it should see a fair amount of play.
A great summation of the differences between brood lineages, thank you! :):)
I just meant that even with those brood distinctions, some of the eldrazi have a very similar feel in the art, so much so that you could interchange the art on the card and people might not notice. Others, however, use the same aesthetic cues to place them firmly into a brood, but still look and feel unique and cool. Eldrazi displacer is kinda blah imo, whereas others like thought-knot seer and walker of the wastes and bearer of silence are all really cool and different while also clearly kozi-babies.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
It was a time when Serra Angel was *the* white win-con in constructed, and Sligh ran creatures such as Brass Man to have a curve. People really don't realize how bad creatures were then, and Ernham Djinn was absurdly good in comparison.
Your outcome is correct but your reasoning is wrong. You will never get to choose the order his abilities go on the stack because they both trigger at different times, however if you blink him with his first ability still on the stack the second one will resolve first, he will draw, and then you pick one to exile.
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
This is the exact card the deck needed. An early creature that can disrupt the opponent as early as turn 2 while having a 4/4 body that can block early creatures and not die to bolt or abrupt decay.
I play a lot of Bx Eldrazi and I'm not certain if I agree. You can only play him on turn 2 with a few hands- specifically, Eldrazi Temple -> Eldrazi Temple or Eye of Ugin -> Eldrazi Temple. In both of these hands, you don't have any colored mana for disruption or removal. For Affinity's turn 3, they are going to fly over TNS and hit for a bazillion damage, while Infect will probably be able to pump for lethal on Inkmoth or Agent. However, TNS seems to improve another problematic matchup- Merfolk. He eats any fish that comes in on turn 2 or 3 and exiles the best lord in their hand, while Wasteland Strangler is probably only going to trade 1 for 1 in combat.
Card is going to be played, that's for certain. I still think the fastest of fast aggro is going to be a real challenge for the deck. As for Abrupt Decay, Bx Eldrazi beats any Abrupt Decay deck pretty easily even without TNS.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit