I think I'll prefer Abyssal Persecutor for more straightforward decks. I wouldn't say this is worse, if your graveyard is loaded, then it could essentially be stronger than Persecutor, but it does have its glaring weaknesses (one graveyard removal and you're more screwed than your sacrifice outlet for Persecutor being removed). They're like similar, but different enough with their strengths and weakness that it depends on the deck and the meta.
With delve still in Standard at the moment though (plus I don't think anything in Standard breaks it), I don't think this will see much (if any) play for now.
I agree with you - I just thought the parallel was interesting. Many parallels to the original Zen block in this new one... Add this to the list!
I really love the effect - very interesting indeed. Abuse/Combo potential is high.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I think I'll prefer Abyssal Persecutor for more straightforward decks. I wouldn't say this is worse, if your graveyard is loaded, then it could essentially be stronger than Persecutor, but it does have its glaring weaknesses (one graveyard removal and you're more screwed than your sacrifice outlet for Persecutor being removed). They're like similar, but different enough with their strengths and weakness that it depends on the deck and the meta.
With delve still in Standard at the moment though (plus I don't think anything in Standard breaks it), I don't think this will see much (if any) play for now.
I'd argue Delve being in standard makes this exactly playable. What better way to ensure your grave has only good cards in it than exiling a bunch of them for free mana?
That's true. I think I'm just overly cautious and don't feel safe if my library has only 7-8 great cards in it as opposed to 15 cards total.
The more I think about it the more it could be actually really good. You'd either need a tiny bit of grave control, or just ensure you play nothing but value cards like Kolaghan's Command, Lightning Bolt and whatever else through the game, drop this, suddenly you're not topdecking a bad card all game anymore. And if it shuffles back like 6-8 cards, and all of them are burn spells, it should be really easy to close out the game before you run out of cards in deck.
I like the idea of it in a deck full of burn and hasty creatures. It definitely doesn't want fetch lands though as they would be terrible to shuffle back in, and delve cards suffer similarly in that you get to control what you shuffle back in except that those delve cards are a lot worse when your grave gets emptied. Some small number might just be a necessity to make things work, but still...
Let's just not forget that the next block is innistrad, wich might have a high number of decent self-mill effects that can be very nice to fuel this guy.
Love the art and uniqueness of this though, very ballin
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The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
On top of torrent elemental, I see a possibility of evolutionary leap with it. Not sure if it would go well in Sultai or in BRG colors. Red does have a few discard draw spells, so it is tempting to try with red. The card is for sure something to brew with. I have no clue if anything good will result from it, but much fun can be had.
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All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
As some have already mentioned this reminds me a lot of doomsday. Could be interesting to try that out in modern. Doomsday is one of my favorite vintage decks.
I swear I first read it as Wingbonger...something tells me that "As Long as Wingbonger is paired with another creature, both creatures have weed." wouldn't be as good. Seems solid for limited.
Cool card. Utterly terrible in a deck not designed to at least somewhat profit from the exile clause, of course.
I kinda feel like the pieces to the puzzle are missing right now... My first instinct with this card is play a lot of Burn spells to throw at the opponent's face and then "re-buy" with the exile clause, ending the game quickly. But Standard lacks good burn, and Modern doesn't need a four-drop in their Burn deck. Plus, if we're getting hyper-aggressive, Inverter increases pressure but also provides an out to the opponent, since they can chump it for a few turns and then win...
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
Theoretically you'll won't get anymore lands. That's a plus.
Agreed, it's a sweet win-con in Limited. Getting back your previously killed creatures and used removal spells is probably just upside, and as a 6/6, it likely won't die to much Limited removal and will end the game in a timely fashion. But it almost certainly can't be played on turn 4, so we aren't getting tons of benefit out of the pushed cost.
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
I think I'll prefer Abyssal Persecutor for more straightforward decks. I wouldn't say this is worse, if your graveyard is loaded, then it could essentially be stronger than Persecutor, but it does have its glaring weaknesses (one graveyard removal and you're more screwed than your sacrifice outlet for Persecutor being removed). They're like similar, but different enough with their strengths and weakness that it depends on the deck and the meta.
With delve still in Standard at the moment though (plus I don't think anything in Standard breaks it), I don't think this will see much (if any) play for now.
I'd argue Delve being in standard makes this exactly playable. What better way to ensure your grave has only good cards in it than exiling a bunch of them for free mana?
That's true. I think I'm just overly cautious and don't feel safe if my library has only 7-8 great cards in it as opposed to 15 cards total.
7-8 great cards and a big flier suggests you're going to win the game before you run out of cards... unless of your Inverter eats a removal spell, and then you could be screwed.
7-8 great cards and a big flier suggests you're going to win the game before you run out of cards... unless of your Inverter eats a removal spell, and then you could be screwed.
Yeah, sometimes the 7-8 cards might be great, but not great enough to overcome the loss of the Inverter. I guess it's ultimately still a risk, even if most of the time it should turn out good for you.
With a sacrifice outlet, you could stall the loss with 3 Inverters cycling between the battlefield, graveyard and library though
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Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I agree with you - I just thought the parallel was interesting. Many parallels to the original Zen block in this new one... Add this to the list!
I really love the effect - very interesting indeed. Abuse/Combo potential is high.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
That's true. I think I'm just overly cautious and don't feel safe if my library has only 7-8 great cards in it as opposed to 15 cards total.
I like the idea of it in a deck full of burn and hasty creatures. It definitely doesn't want fetch lands though as they would be terrible to shuffle back in, and delve cards suffer similarly in that you get to control what you shuffle back in except that those delve cards are a lot worse when your grave gets emptied. Some small number might just be a necessity to make things work, but still...
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
4 mana 6/6s are crazy good
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
In standard there exists torrent elemental
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Love the art and uniqueness of this though, very ballin
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
On top of torrent elemental, I see a possibility of evolutionary leap with it. Not sure if it would go well in Sultai or in BRG colors. Red does have a few discard draw spells, so it is tempting to try with red. The card is for sure something to brew with. I have no clue if anything good will result from it, but much fun can be had.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
this is Exactly what mythics should be. You can build around it to abuse the draw back. and the effect is pretty unique.
Or would you rather have format staples be the mythics?
Would be nice.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
that's one of the prettiest artworks I've seen on a mtg card
I'm positive he'll generate a deck somewhere.
RIP Mike McArtor. The Mothership won't be the same.
Legacy
GG Aggro Elves GG
I kinda feel like the pieces to the puzzle are missing right now... My first instinct with this card is play a lot of Burn spells to throw at the opponent's face and then "re-buy" with the exile clause, ending the game quickly. But Standard lacks good burn, and Modern doesn't need a four-drop in their Burn deck. Plus, if we're getting hyper-aggressive, Inverter increases pressure but also provides an out to the opponent, since they can chump it for a few turns and then win...
Theoretically you'll won't get anymore lands. That's a plus.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Agreed, it's a sweet win-con in Limited. Getting back your previously killed creatures and used removal spells is probably just upside, and as a 6/6, it likely won't die to much Limited removal and will end the game in a timely fashion. But it almost certainly can't be played on turn 4, so we aren't getting tons of benefit out of the pushed cost.
7-8 great cards and a big flier suggests you're going to win the game before you run out of cards... unless of your Inverter eats a removal spell, and then you could be screwed.
Yeah, sometimes the 7-8 cards might be great, but not great enough to overcome the loss of the Inverter. I guess it's ultimately still a risk, even if most of the time it should turn out good for you.
With a sacrifice outlet, you could stall the loss with 3 Inverters cycling between the battlefield, graveyard and library though