This seems pretty sweet. Probably overpriced in 1v1, especially since "cannot be countered" is flavor text in most matchups, but in 2HG this is going to be the defining counterspell of the format.
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Underwhelming Denial... I'd so much rather have Counterspell with an optional extra 2 to make it uncounterable. ( And yes, I realize that's OP and not what Wizards wants in Standard at the moment. )
Not that counter wars happen all that much these days, but what a sweet little tool for such. There is no denying that it is underwhelming at full price however.
Testing the waters (pun not intended) for actual counterspell in modern. Good lord. Seems pretty good. Commander definitely. Modern maybe.
Edit: Counterflux sees play in SB of twin. Yes it's 4 mana but great in counterwars...interesting to see where this goes
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
They had to make it rare? Card is playable though, it might show up in modern.
I think that's a stretch. In 1v1, the most common scenario where we can Surge this is going to be defending our own threats the turn we play them. That's potentially played around by our opponent simply waiting until their own turn to play a removal spell, and even if it works perfectly, a Counterspell isn't so much better than Dispel, Leak, or Snare to the point where we're willing to play a baseline 4 CMC counter.
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
The Surge cost is basically worthless. Generally, to get the best usage out of it, you're going to play a threat and then use the surge cost to cast it as an uncounterable Counterspell to protect your original threat. However, your opponent can just as easily respond with another counterspell on the original spell, so the uncounterability isn't relevant there. You could just as easily have used a Negate or Dispel in that scenario. It's only really good as a Last Word, and I doubt most decks are going to want that card.
I don't think that's totally fair. This lets you play draw go in URx decks. They cast something, bolt in response, counterspell. If you have a Jori En out, then you're living in Value Town
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I am usually posting from my phone. I will usually be brief and there may be typos.
12/1/2004: Yes, you're allowed to have a deck consisting of sixty Relentless Rats and nothing else.
So Mogis is in the middle of a guitar solo, and then Phenax jumps in with
"I like big butts and I cannot lie..."
Decks:
BFZ Standard
Nothing yet Modern RBWMardu BurnWBR Legacy UUUPTSD NoughtUUU EDH WUDaxos VoltronUW UBRJeleva - Oops all your spellsRBU UBUVela, the Ninja Clad (retired)UBU
The Surge cost is basically worthless. Generally, to get the best usage out of it, you're going to play a threat and then use the surge cost to cast it as an uncounterable Counterspell to protect your original threat. However, your opponent can just as easily respond with another counterspell on the original spell, so the uncounterability isn't relevant there. You could just as easily have used a Negate or Dispel in that scenario. It's only really good as a Last Word, and I doubt most decks are going to want that card.
I don't think that's totally fair. This lets you play draw go in URx decks. They cast something, bolt in response, counterspell. If you have a Jori En out, then you're living in Value Town
Nah, it is a good assessment even if it isn't 100% accurate. It is better than a negate or a dispel at protecting a threat in that it narrows the number of things that can be used to answer that threat. Dispel goes right out the window if your threat was not an instant. Negate, and spell pierce bust in the case that your threat was a creature. It is also better in that due to lacking a targeting restriction it might find some mainboard space where the more narrow counters do not even with its general inefficiency outside of double spell situations (4 is an awful lot for a counterspell without a good bonus rider like cryptic or ojutai's commands).
Baseline, Last Word is very fair and standard playable.
In modern, I don't really see it. Turn Aside a'int turning any heads, is adding a mana for uncountable going to push that? It's not going to help another spell resolve since they can just re-target the spell being fought over if they have the second counter, so the only time it'll matter is if you cast a creature and they try to bolt/path/terminate it in the end step while still having U up for Dispel/Spell Pierce. While that scenario happens, I'd rather have the more versatile* card in Dispel/Spell Pierce and take the bad beats when it does.
(*More versatile in the context of the current Modern meta. As the format changes over time, so will my evaluation of this card)
Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
As soon as someone mentioned "Surge counterspell" I figured we were gonna get something that Surges into, well, a Counterspell (sorta like Silumgar's Scorn or that one Metalcraft counterspell I don't remember the name of). Bit annoying that the "upside" counterspells are rare in BFZ, though.
Also, I really hope that that's the English name, because when I first saw the name of the thread I just started cackling. It's such a fun name.
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"The true measure of all heroes is not what they achieve, but who they inspire." —Triumph of Gerrard
I mean, I kinda...sorta? like it. I guess it ends counter wars in Modern? I've seen a lot of scenarios that go like this:
Player 1: I cast threat
Player 2: Remand
Player 1: Remand your Remand
Player 2: Snapcaster Mana Leak your Remand
I guess this is an alright backup counter spell? Sucks that you can't cast it normally before turn 4 without ramp.
even if you had overwhelming denial instead of remand, they could just snapcaster mana leak your threat. Overwhelming denial doesn't make your other spells uncounterable.
I can't see this being played seriously in modern when theres better options, but in standard, it feels to me like the lack of good 0-1 cmc instant spells and cantrips makes this impossible to use. Even in a draw/go, even with support like spawning bed and foundry of the consuls and blighted cataract and mage-ring network, this is just too slow. Such a hypothetical deck would need 1 drops that don't exist, fiery impulse doesn't seem enough, and even if that deck existed, it would have the competing interests of high powered colorless lands and all-colored mana spells, this isn't splashable.
Overwhelming Denial 2UU
Instant (R)
Surge UU
Overwhelming Denial can't be countered by spells or abilities.
Counter target spell.
(Name may be mistranslated, but this fits the crunch.)
Remind me why they couldn't just reprint Counterspell and be done with this nonsense?
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
There's an extremely wide gap in power level between this and Counterspell.
you're the kind of person mtg needs for flavor text creation
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Underwhelming Denial... I'd so much rather have Counterspell with an optional extra 2 to make it uncounterable. ( And yes, I realize that's OP and not what Wizards wants in Standard at the moment. )
UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU's prison: blue is the new orange is the new black.
Mizzix Of The Izmagnus : wheels on fire... rolling down the road...
BSidisi, Undead VizierB: Bis zum Erbrechen
GTitiania, Protector Of ArgothG: Protecting Argoth, by blowing it up!
GYisan, The Wanderer BardG: Gradus Ad Elfball.
Duel EDH: Yisan & Titania.
In Progress: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV duel; Grenzo, Dungeon Warden Doomsday.
Edit: Counterflux sees play in SB of twin. Yes it's 4 mana but great in counterwars...interesting to see where this goes
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
I think that's a stretch. In 1v1, the most common scenario where we can Surge this is going to be defending our own threats the turn we play them. That's potentially played around by our opponent simply waiting until their own turn to play a removal spell, and even if it works perfectly, a Counterspell isn't so much better than Dispel, Leak, or Snare to the point where we're willing to play a baseline 4 CMC counter.
Is that Ulamog getting wrecked by Zendikar's oceans? The irony. Wonder if Kiora is behind this? Hope our good sis is still around.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I don't think that's totally fair. This lets you play draw go in URx decks. They cast something, bolt in response, counterspell. If you have a Jori En out, then you're living in Value Town
Decks:
BFZ Standard
Nothing yet
Modern
RBWMardu BurnWBR
Legacy
UUUPTSD NoughtUUU
EDH
WUDaxos VoltronUW
UBRJeleva - Oops all your spellsRBU
UBUVela, the Ninja Clad (retired)UBU
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Player 1: I cast threat
Player 2: Remand
Player 1: Remand your Remand
Player 2: Snapcaster Mana Leak your Remand
I guess this is an alright backup counter spell? Sucks that you can't cast it normally before turn 4 without ramp.
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Nah, it is a good assessment even if it isn't 100% accurate. It is better than a negate or a dispel at protecting a threat in that it narrows the number of things that can be used to answer that threat. Dispel goes right out the window if your threat was not an instant. Negate, and spell pierce bust in the case that your threat was a creature. It is also better in that due to lacking a targeting restriction it might find some mainboard space where the more narrow counters do not even with its general inefficiency outside of double spell situations (4 is an awful lot for a counterspell without a good bonus rider like cryptic or ojutai's commands).
In modern, I don't really see it. Turn Aside a'int turning any heads, is adding a mana for uncountable going to push that? It's not going to help another spell resolve since they can just re-target the spell being fought over if they have the second counter, so the only time it'll matter is if you cast a creature and they try to bolt/path/terminate it in the end step while still having U up for Dispel/Spell Pierce. While that scenario happens, I'd rather have the more versatile* card in Dispel/Spell Pierce and take the bad beats when it does.
(*More versatile in the context of the current Modern meta. As the format changes over time, so will my evaluation of this card)
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
Also, I really hope that that's the English name, because when I first saw the name of the thread I just started cackling. It's such a fun name.
even if you had overwhelming denial instead of remand, they could just snapcaster mana leak your threat. Overwhelming denial doesn't make your other spells uncounterable.
I can't see this being played seriously in modern when theres better options, but in standard, it feels to me like the lack of good 0-1 cmc instant spells and cantrips makes this impossible to use. Even in a draw/go, even with support like spawning bed and foundry of the consuls and blighted cataract and mage-ring network, this is just too slow. Such a hypothetical deck would need 1 drops that don't exist, fiery impulse doesn't seem enough, and even if that deck existed, it would have the competing interests of high powered colorless lands and all-colored mana spells, this isn't splashable.