that's gonna get nabbed for image leeching here a safe version
Whenever another colorless creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may change the power and toughness of Mimic Eldrazi with the power and toughness of that creature until the end of the turn.
It is coherently incoherent.
That is a good two drop in the right deck
Oh man I love it. I just wish that it copied other creatures abilities too but for 2 mana that would be way too strong
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
that's gonna get nabbed for image leeching here a safe version
Whenever another colorless creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may change the power and toughness of Mimic Eldrazi with the power and toughness of that creature until the end of the turn.
This does fun things with phyrexian dreadnought. If im thinking of it right you should be able to sac this to the Dreadnought. Even if you couldn't it would still be a 12/12 until end of turn.
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I find the slow pace games fun so if im not playing EDH im going Control. Unless I'm actually trying to win and not have fun then i go super hyper agro
EDH Decks I run RL.
UW :: Ephara, God of the Polis :: Permanent based control :: UW RWB :: Tariel Reckoner of Souls :: Big Dudes and random reanimation :: RWB UB :: Grimgrin, Corpse-Born :: ZOMBIES! :: UB BRG :: Xira Bug ***** :: CREATURES :: BRG
Wow, Immolating Glare is nice! A strictly better Kill Shot deserves some attention, it could well be Standard playable! I'm glad removal is improving after a really bad set by this parameter...
I doubt removal that can't kill jace is gonna see a whole lot of play.
Can this copy counter-based creatures like endless one and Hangarback?
Yes, but not with the effect you are looking for. Eldrazi Mimic would become a 0/0 and die to state-based actions. This is because the effect that is modifying his P/T is applied prior to the counters being included in the P/T of Hangarback Walker or Endless One. It goes as so:
Eldrazi Mimic's triggered ability triggers and goes on the stack, linked to Hangarback Walker
The triggered ability resolves, resulting in the following:
The layer for P/T changing effects is applied. Eldrazi Mimic looks at Hangarback Walker and sees a creature with 0/0 P/T and so becomes a creature with 0/0 P/T.
The layer for counters modifying P/T is applied. Hangarback Walker's P/T becomes 2/2 because of the two +1/+1 counters.
State-based actions are checked. Eldrazi Mimic is moved to the GY for having a 0 toughness.
For reference from the Comp Rules:
613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3.
613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. Effects that refer to the base power and/or toughness of a creature apply in this layer.
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, “Counters.”
Alternatively, if the translation comes back to say that it refers to the base P/T of a creature, then Eldrazi Mimic would land in layer 7b.
What WizardMN said a few posts down. I was thinking layers would constantly refresh, but I'm pretty sure (now) that's not accurate. I still have much to learn when it comes to layers apparently...
Can this copy counter-based creatures like endless one and Hangarback?
Yes, but not with the effect you are looking for. Eldrazi Mimic would become a 0/0 and die to state-based actions. This is because the effect that is modifying his P/T is applied prior to the counters being included in the P/T of Hangarback Walker or Endless One. It goes as so:
Eldrazi Mimic's triggered ability triggers and goes on the stack, linked to Hangarback Walker
The triggered ability resolves, resulting in the following:
The layer for P/T changing effects is applied. Eldrazi Mimic looks at Hangarback Walker and sees a creature with 0/0 P/T and so becomes a creature with 0/0 P/T.
The layer for counters modifying P/T is applied. Hangarback Walker's P/T becomes 2/2 because of the two +1/+1 counters.
State-based actions are checked. Eldrazi Mimic is moved to the GY for having a 0 toughness.
For reference from the Comp Rules:
613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3.
613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. Effects that refer to the base power and/or toughness of a creature apply in this layer.
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, “Counters.”
Alternatively, if the translation comes back to say that it refers to the base P/T of a creature, then Eldrazi Mimic would land in layer 7b.
The P/T setting will apply in layer 7b for Eldrazi Mimic no matter what. It isn't really relevant though.
There is never a time where Hangarback Walker's P/T is not 2/2 on the battlefield in your example. The layer system is there to determine what happens for Hangarback Walker and Eldrazi Mimic individually. It doesn't say to apply 7b across the board, followed by 7c and so on. It will do that for dependencies, but there are no dependencies here. You look at Hangarback Walker and apply all the layers to it. It is a 2/2. Then, you apply all the layers to Eldrazi Mimic and it is set to a 2/2 because when it sees Hangarback Walker, it is a 2/2. The layer system doesn't affect anything here. The layers have already been applied to Hangarback Walker by the time Eldrazi Mimic cares about it.
If it just uses the power and toughness of the creature, it will use the P/T as modified by effects such as Anthem Effects or counters. If it looks at the base P/T of the creature that entered, then it will be a 0/0 if using Hangarback Walker's P/T. See Gemini Engine for an example of how one creature's P/T affects another and look at the 3rd ruling.
It really depends on how accurate the translation is, but it could work the way poison counter wants it to. I don't see the card reference the base P/T of the creature it is copying, so it should work just fine with anything that enters with counters.
"Whenever another colorless creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may change the base power and toughness of Eldrazi Mimic to the base power and toughness of that creature until end of turn."
Why is this so easy to just jam into an all-artifact deck? (For instance, WTF?) Conversely, why does Kozilek need to involve <><> if this one does not?
Basically, what was the point of this change at all if it wasn't going to be used consistently?
"Whenever another colorless creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may change the base power and toughness of Eldrazi Mimic to the base power and toughness of that creature until end of turn."
There is only one instance of the word "base" on the card and this appears to apply to the P/T of Eldrazi Mimic. It does not refer to the base P/T of the creature that ETB. I don't speak Spanish so I could be wrong. I guess we can wait for the card to show up in the Image Gallery tomorrow to be sure.
"Whenever another colorless creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may change the base power and toughness of Eldrazi Mimic to the base power and toughness of that creature until end of turn."
I don't see the word 'base' appear on the second part of the effect. It changes the base P/T of the mimic to the P/T of the creature who entered - not the BASE P/T of the entering creature.
Why is this so easy to just jam into an all-artifact deck? (For instance, WTF?) Conversely, why does Kozilek need to involve <><> if this one does not?
Basically, what was the point of this change at all if it wasn't going to be used consistently?
I do find it odd that this guy just needs generic mana.
"Whenever another colorless creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may change the base power and toughness of Eldrazi Mimic to the base power and toughness of that creature until end of turn."
I fixed the rough translation, but are you sure the 'base' appears twice? I only see it once, in reference to Eldrazi Mimic's power and toughness. But it's been a long time since I've approach fluency in spanish.
Why is this so easy to just jam into an all-artifact deck? (For instance, WTF?) Conversely, why does Kozilek need to involve <><> if this one does not?
Basically, what was the point of this change at all if it wasn't going to be used consistently?
They can't make every Eldrazi parasitic by forcing them to cost . I am not sure what the change would have meant anyway. It would still slot into all-artifact decks.
I do get the point about Dreadnought though, but they don't design/develop new cards with old cards in mind to keep them back.
There is only one instance of base. The second clause changes the Mimics P/T to the current P/T of the card to be copied.
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Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
It doesn't need to cost <> mana. It would actually be kind of weird if the set had zero all generic costing eldrazi. Of course, it being good with dreadnought isn't that big of a deal anyway. Sure, it's cute for a casual deck, but it probably isn't legacy playable or anything anymore.
I speak portuguese, which is pretty close to spanish (to the point a portuguese speaker can read things in spanish and understand roughly 80~90% of it) and it only says base power/toughness for the mimic, it does not make reference to the creature with which it's changing the power/toughness.
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You are all correct. The word base only appears once. Corrected translation:
"Whenever another colorless creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may change the base power and toughness of Edrazi Mimic to the power and toughness of that creature until end of turn."
Can this copy counter-based creatures like endless one and Hangarback?
Yes, but not with the effect you are looking for. Eldrazi Mimic would become a 0/0 and die to state-based actions. This is because the effect that is modifying his P/T is applied prior to the counters being included in the P/T of Hangarback Walker or Endless One. It goes as so:
Eldrazi Mimic's triggered ability triggers and goes on the stack, linked to Hangarback Walker
The triggered ability resolves, resulting in the following:
The layer for P/T changing effects is applied. Eldrazi Mimic looks at Hangarback Walker and sees a creature with 0/0 P/T and so becomes a creature with 0/0 P/T.
The layer for counters modifying P/T is applied. Hangarback Walker's P/T becomes 2/2 because of the two +1/+1 counters.
State-based actions are checked. Eldrazi Mimic is moved to the GY for having a 0 toughness.
For reference from the Comp Rules:
613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3.
613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. Effects that refer to the base power and/or toughness of a creature apply in this layer.
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, “Counters.”
Alternatively, if the translation comes back to say that it refers to the base P/T of a creature, then Eldrazi Mimic would land in layer 7b.
A judge step in, please.
As judges we are generally advised to not explain how the rules might affect new cards. Rather we should be waiting for the release notes that should be out in ~2 weeks and should cover any weirdness such as this. Especially when we only have a rough translation of the card and not the english text.
I would point to some of the other posts that reference Gemini Engine and Serene Master as far as a more likely explanation of how this "should" work, however. WizardMN has a pretty spot on analysis of how layers work and why the above post seems incorrect.
The great thing about the Mimic in a Dreadnaught deck is you can use the mimic as a sacrifice for the Dreadnaught. Because the power becomes 12 for the mimic, you put the triggered abilities on the stack in a way that you assign P/T to the Mimic first, you can use it as a sacrifice when the Naught's triggered ability pops up.
But knowing Wizards, they'll errata Dreadnaught to prevent the combo from ever happening
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Oh man I love it. I just wish that it copied other creatures abilities too but for 2 mana that would be way too strong
Improved Kill Shot is great.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
This does fun things with phyrexian dreadnought. If im thinking of it right you should be able to sac this to the Dreadnought. Even if you couldn't it would still be a 12/12 until end of turn.
EDH Decks I run RL.
RWB :: Tariel Reckoner of Souls :: Big Dudes and random reanimation :: RWB
UB :: Grimgrin, Corpse-Born :: ZOMBIES! :: UB
BRG :: Xira Bug ***** :: CREATURES :: BRG
T1 mimic, t2 dreadnaught, sac the dreadnaught swing 12, then fling ftw?
I doubt removal that can't kill jace is gonna see a whole lot of play.
Yes, but not with the effect you are looking for. Eldrazi Mimic would become a 0/0 and die to state-based actions. This is because the effect that is modifying his P/T is applied prior to the counters being included in the P/T of Hangarback Walker or Endless One. It goes as so:
- Hangarback Walker ETB with two +1/+1 counters.
- Eldrazi Mimic's triggered ability triggers and goes on the stack, linked to Hangarback Walker
- The triggered ability resolves, resulting in the following:
- The layer for P/T changing effects is applied. Eldrazi Mimic looks at Hangarback Walker and sees a creature with 0/0 P/T and so becomes a creature with 0/0 P/T.
- The layer for counters modifying P/T is applied. Hangarback Walker's P/T becomes 2/2 because of the two +1/+1 counters.
- State-based actions are checked. Eldrazi Mimic is moved to the GY for having a 0 toughness.
For reference from the Comp Rules:
Alternatively, if the translation comes back to say that it refers to the base P/T of a creature, then Eldrazi Mimic would land in layer 7b.
What WizardMN said a few posts down. I was thinking layers would constantly refresh, but I'm pretty sure (now) that's not accurate. I still have much to learn when it comes to layers apparently...
The P/T setting will apply in layer 7b for Eldrazi Mimic no matter what. It isn't really relevant though.
There is never a time where Hangarback Walker's P/T is not 2/2 on the battlefield in your example. The layer system is there to determine what happens for Hangarback Walker and Eldrazi Mimic individually. It doesn't say to apply 7b across the board, followed by 7c and so on. It will do that for dependencies, but there are no dependencies here. You look at Hangarback Walker and apply all the layers to it. It is a 2/2. Then, you apply all the layers to Eldrazi Mimic and it is set to a 2/2 because when it sees Hangarback Walker, it is a 2/2. The layer system doesn't affect anything here. The layers have already been applied to Hangarback Walker by the time Eldrazi Mimic cares about it.
If it just uses the power and toughness of the creature, it will use the P/T as modified by effects such as Anthem Effects or counters. If it looks at the base P/T of the creature that entered, then it will be a 0/0 if using Hangarback Walker's P/T. See Gemini Engine for an example of how one creature's P/T affects another and look at the 3rd ruling.
It really depends on how accurate the translation is, but it could work the way poison counter wants it to. I don't see the card reference the base P/T of the creature it is copying, so it should work just fine with anything that enters with counters.
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Serene Master's 2nd ruling does indeed indicate that Eldrazi Mimic will see the modified P/T of Hangarback Walker rather than the base P/T.
"Whenever another colorless creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may change the base power and toughness of Eldrazi Mimic to the base power and toughness of that creature until end of turn."
Why is this so easy to just jam into an all-artifact deck? (For instance, WTF?) Conversely, why does Kozilek need to involve <><> if this one does not?
Basically, what was the point of this change at all if it wasn't going to be used consistently?
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I don't see the word 'base' appear on the second part of the effect. It changes the base P/T of the mimic to the P/T of the creature who entered - not the BASE P/T of the entering creature.
I do find it odd that this guy just needs generic mana.
UR Blue-Red Control
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I do get the point about Dreadnought though, but they don't design/develop new cards with old cards in mind to keep them back.
(My Wife is Colombian)
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
"Whenever another colorless creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may change the base power and toughness of Edrazi Mimic to the power and toughness of that creature until end of turn."
As judges we are generally advised to not explain how the rules might affect new cards. Rather we should be waiting for the release notes that should be out in ~2 weeks and should cover any weirdness such as this. Especially when we only have a rough translation of the card and not the english text.
I would point to some of the other posts that reference Gemini Engine and Serene Master as far as a more likely explanation of how this "should" work, however. WizardMN has a pretty spot on analysis of how layers work and why the above post seems incorrect.
But knowing Wizards, they'll errata Dreadnaught to prevent the combo from ever happening