Well I haven't been following Magic for a while now. But Wasteland reprint in a standard set? WOTC's so desperate for people to buy this crappy set it's hilarious.
People talking about stuff they have no idea about is hilarious.
Well I haven't been following Magic for a while now. But Wasteland reprint in a standard set? WOTC's so desperate for people to buy this crappy set it's hilarious.
this is a perception that exists in a lot of players that haven't kept up with news/the game.
i've seen a lot of packs of bfz sold on this thought alone.
i hate their marketing strategy.
People in here constantly ***** and moan about eternal staples not being made available and now we get one of the big ones in a set that is going to be mass produced and it's still not enough.
Entitlement is a disease that runs rampant on this forum.
Well I haven't been following Magic for a while now. But Wasteland reprint in a standard set? WOTC's so desperate for people to buy this crappy set it's hilarious.
this is a perception that exists in a lot of players that haven't kept up with news/the game.
i've seen a lot of packs of bfz sold on this thought alone.
i hate their marketing strategy.
People in here constantly ***** and moan about eternal staples not being made available and now we get one of the big ones in a set that is going to be mass produced and it's still not enough.
Entitlement is a disease that runs rampant on this forum.
Wasteland is going to appear in 1 out of every 4000 boosters and be worth $400, this is mass production?
Well I haven't been following Magic for a while now. But Wasteland reprint in a standard set? WOTC's so desperate for people to buy this crappy set it's hilarious.
this is a perception that exists in a lot of players that haven't kept up with news/the game.
i've seen a lot of packs of bfz sold on this thought alone.
i hate their marketing strategy.
People in here constantly ***** and moan about eternal staples not being made available and now we get one of the big ones in a set that is going to be mass produced and it's still not enough.
Entitlement is a disease that runs rampant on this forum.
Wasteland is going to appear in 1 out of every 4000 boosters and be worth $400, this is mass production?
You get a shot at it whenever you draft or buy a pack for ***** and giggles.
Oh right, I keep forgotting the vast majoriy of posters in this subforum aren't good enough to draft and are far too drab to ever want to buy a pack just for fun every now and then.
Public Mod Note
(LouCypher):
Flame warning -LouCypher
Wizards needs the old "think outside the box" mentality that could possibly curtail some from illegally leaking material. A card or two a week a few weeks ahead of schedule isn't going to ruin a rollout. Proactive not reactive. Whatever the case, no hard feelings here, enjoy the game and enjoy the Holidays.
So you think spoiler season and methadone clinics should have the same line of thinking?
I wonder why other fandoms see Magic players as whiny and entitled?
No, once again a jump to an incorrect conclusion has been made. Just ask me people, don't assume. I'd actually be fine if Wizards would spoil NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH until day of sale. That would be different from the current predictable roll out as well. I feel ZERO entitlement. I can make recommendations though that are not expectations. Keep it fresh, change it up. Run some sets out quickly, slow others down. Find different outlets for spoilers. There are several ways the current boring and predictable rollout could be handled to make it LESS predictable. Wizards should not feel entitlement from us the buyers as well I say. It works both ways. If I don't like it, I'll let my wallet do the talking. I'm railing against the whiny group as well that complains about everything then rushes out and buys a case of cards then gripes about it afterwards. People need to think about their purchases and the statement it makes. And Wizards needs to show some adaptability and willingness to listen to the consumer. Both sides have fault, both sides CAN improve. Me included.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Well I haven't been following Magic for a while now. But Wasteland reprint in a standard set? WOTC's so desperate for people to buy this crappy set it's hilarious.
this is a perception that exists in a lot of players that haven't kept up with news/the game.
i've seen a lot of packs of bfz sold on this thought alone.
i hate their marketing strategy.
People in here constantly ***** and moan about eternal staples not being made available and now we get one of the big ones in a set that is going to be mass produced and it's still not enough.
Entitlement is a disease that runs rampant on this forum.
It's better than literally nothing, I guess, but the expeditions are very clearly not making any major strides towards solving the problem people are complaining about. Getting your hands on, say, a Twilight Mire or a Scalding Tarn is still a pain in the ass, with or without the Expeditions.
Expensive cards means the game is doing well: it means people want to buy staples to play.
It's is rather amusing how people keep missing this very simple fact. Now obviously there is a threshold at which point prices become prohibitive but MTGS netdeckers don't get to pick when that threshold has been crossed.
Everybody wants Wasteland, WotC gives us all a shot at an extra special printing of it (alongside some other great utility lands) and yet it's still not good enough because so many on here think WotC is actively trying to screw everyone unless they print enough copies of Wasteland to make it drop to 5 bucks.
Expensive cards means the game is doing well: it means people want to buy staples to play.
It's is rather amusing how people keep missing this very simple fact. Now obviously there is a threshold at which point prices become prohibitive but MTGS netdeckers don't get to pick when that threshold has been crossed.
Everybody wants Wasteland, WotC gives us all a shot at an extra special printing of it (alongside some other great utility lands) and yet it's still not good enough because so many on here think WotC is actively trying to screw everyone unless they print enough copies of Wasteland to make it drop to 5 bucks.
Or, you know, have it show up in one out every 2 boxes of product...are you trolling or serious? No one can adequately even explain what market these Expeditions are for, everyone I know had either sold every one they've come across or traded in literally dozens of eternal staples to get just one or two of them for bling purposes.
Calling them a reprint is a tongue-in-cheek, almost laughable statement at best, and you have the audacity to look down on people complaining that the whole system is a lottery propping up an otherwise horrible set? Again, are you trolling or serious?
Expensive cards means the game is doing well: it means people want to buy staples to play.
It's is rather amusing how people keep missing this very simple fact. Now obviously there is a threshold at which point prices become prohibitive but MTGS netdeckers don't get to pick when that threshold has been crossed.
Everybody wants Wasteland, WotC gives us all a shot at an extra special printing of it (alongside some other great utility lands) and yet it's still not good enough because so many on here think WotC is actively trying to screw everyone unless they print enough copies of Wasteland to make it drop to 5 bucks.
I think they can complain when the chance to get one is so low that it might as well not even exist. Much like keeping Goyf at mythic in Modern Masters, they do this to make it a lottery and give people the hope that they open something truly amazing, especially when most of BFZ and MM2 are awful and pretty bad, respectively. OGW looks better than BFZ at least, which will help the feeling when you don't get an expedition, or anything decent, but you can't really call these a reprint. That's like saying they reprinted Damnation as a judge foil and it would help the price of the card.
Wizards needs the old "think outside the box" mentality that could possibly curtail some from illegally leaking material. A card or two a week a few weeks ahead of schedule isn't going to ruin a rollout. Proactive not reactive. Whatever the case, no hard feelings here, enjoy the game and enjoy the Holidays.
So you think spoiler season and methadone clinics should have the same line of thinking?
I wonder why other fandoms see Magic players as whiny and entitled?
Because that's the universal feeling any group of humans feels towards any group that is somehow different from them?
Universal to Magic players.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGSalvation; Where the whining is a time honored tradition, and enjoying the game is trolling.
Expensive cards means the game is doing well: it means people want to buy staples to play.
It's is rather amusing how people keep missing this very simple fact. Now obviously there is a threshold at which point prices become prohibitive but MTGS netdeckers don't get to pick when that threshold has been crossed.
Everybody wants Wasteland, WotC gives us all a shot at an extra special printing of it (alongside some other great utility lands) and yet it's still not good enough because so many on here think WotC is actively trying to screw everyone unless they print enough copies of Wasteland to make it drop to 5 bucks.
I think they can complain when the chance to get one is so low that it might as well not even exist. Much like keeping Goyf at mythic in Modern Masters, they do this to make it a lottery and give people the hope that they open something truly amazing, especially when most of BFZ and MM2 are awful and pretty bad, respectively. OGW looks better than BFZ at least, which will help the feeling when you don't get an expedition, or anything decent, but you can't really call these a reprint. That's like saying they reprinted Damnation as a judge foil and it would help the price of the card.
They can and will complain no matter what. If the hard to obtain cards are too good, it is a lottery. If they aren't good enough, the set sucks. If the good cards get printed a bit too much, the value was destroyed. If the good cards are too hard to get, then your budget becomes Wizards' problem.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGSalvation; Where the whining is a time honored tradition, and enjoying the game is trolling.
I think its is true that there will always be complaints. Just which groups i guess
Its both a reprint (weakly so) and it is a lottery. If it was'nt a lottery, it would have been a reprint of a suck card that everyone will ignore (and BFZ will totally crash I think wotc knew that too lol)
Kahns is still selling... so no, it did'nt have to be a lottery. But it is what it is :/ ... a cash grab. or a crutch.... I think BFZ needed it badly tho lol
Expensive cards means the game is doing well: it means people want to buy staples to play.
It's is rather amusing how people keep missing this very simple fact. Now obviously there is a threshold at which point prices become prohibitive but MTGS netdeckers don't get to pick when that threshold has been crossed.
Everybody wants Wasteland, WotC gives us all a shot at an extra special printing of it (alongside some other great utility lands) and yet it's still not good enough because so many on here think WotC is actively trying to screw everyone unless they print enough copies of Wasteland to make it drop to 5 bucks.
I think they can complain when the chance to get one is so low that it might as well not even exist. Much like keeping Goyf at mythic in Modern Masters, they do this to make it a lottery and give people the hope that they open something truly amazing, especially when most of BFZ and MM2 are awful and pretty bad, respectively. OGW looks better than BFZ at least, which will help the feeling when you don't get an expedition, or anything decent, but you can't really call these a reprint. That's like saying they reprinted Damnation as a judge foil and it would help the price of the card.
They can and will complain no matter what. If the hard to obtain cards are too good, it is a lottery. If they aren't good enough, the set sucks. If the good cards get printed a bit too much, the value was destroyed. If the good cards are too hard to get, then your budget becomes Wizards' problem.
Except it is only a lottery when there is nothing else in the set that makes you go "Meh, wasn't <expensive card>, but at least it is useful" which is what BFZ really lacked. If there were many other decent cards it would be much less of a lottery, which only annotates when you win it all or win nothing and having other decent cards would have greatly helped that. MM2 had a similar issue, sure Goyf was the main prize, but there was some other decent stuff, although there really should have been more for it's price increase.
Also, anyone complaining that the price of something dropped doesn't have any reason to complain, they chose to buy that card, but all cards have a chance to be reprinted, even those in the reserved list. As iron clad as some seem to think it is there is always that chance of them abolishing it, or even banning the cards on the reserved list in Legacy, which would also drop almost all of those cards prices down considerably.
Will there always be expensive cards? Yeah, that will happen, but when they have the ability to reprint some cards, but don't and print them as some super rare thing, then that is where a large problem can come from. They shouldn't be too afraid of reprints, they learned from Chronicles and still learning from Modern Masters, even Goyfs price is barely unaffected by multiple printings.
Expensive cards means the game is doing well: it means people want to buy staples to play.
It's is rather amusing how people keep missing this very simple fact. Now obviously there is a threshold at which point prices become prohibitive but MTGS netdeckers don't get to pick when that threshold has been crossed.
Everybody wants Wasteland, WotC gives us all a shot at an extra special printing of it (alongside some other great utility lands) and yet it's still not good enough because so many on here think WotC is actively trying to screw everyone unless they print enough copies of Wasteland to make it drop to 5 bucks.
I think they can complain when the chance to get one is so low that it might as well not even exist. Much like keeping Goyf at mythic in Modern Masters, they do this to make it a lottery and give people the hope that they open something truly amazing, especially when most of BFZ and MM2 are awful and pretty bad, respectively. OGW looks better than BFZ at least, which will help the feeling when you don't get an expedition, or anything decent, but you can't really call these a reprint. That's like saying they reprinted Damnation as a judge foil and it would help the price of the card.
They can and will complain no matter what. If the hard to obtain cards are too good, it is a lottery. If they aren't good enough, the set sucks. If the good cards get printed a bit too much, the value was destroyed. If the good cards are too hard to get, then your budget becomes Wizards' problem.
Except it is only a lottery when there is nothing else in the set that makes you go "Meh, wasn't <expensive card>, but at least it is useful" which is what BFZ really lacked. If there were many other decent cards it would be much less of a lottery, which only annotates when you win it all or win nothing and having other decent cards would have greatly helped that. MM2 had a similar issue, sure Goyf was the main prize, but there was some other decent stuff, although there really should have been more for it's price increase.
Also, anyone complaining that the price of something dropped doesn't have any reason to complain, they chose to buy that card, but all cards have a chance to be reprinted, even those in the reserved list. As iron clad as some seem to think it is there is always that chance of them abolishing it, or even banning the cards on the reserved list in Legacy, which would also drop almost all of those cards prices down considerably.
Will there always be expensive cards? Yeah, that will happen, but when they have the ability to reprint some cards, but don't and print them as some super rare thing, then that is where a large problem can come from. They shouldn't be too afraid of reprints, they learned from Chronicles and still learning from Modern Masters, even Goyfs price is barely unaffected by multiple printings.
So you think the players would be happier if cards were both high in price per pack, but low in price overall. I guess it would feel more "fair", but also a lot more boring. Personally, I don't have a problem with some cards costing more money, because I don't feel that I am entitled to every card by virtue of desire alone. If I want a Wasteland expedition, then God Bless the free market; I can exchange time and effort for currency and trade that for one. THE SYSTEM WORKS!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGSalvation; Where the whining is a time honored tradition, and enjoying the game is trolling.
Expensive cards means the game is doing well: it means people want to buy staples to play.
It's is rather amusing how people keep missing this very simple fact. Now obviously there is a threshold at which point prices become prohibitive but MTGS netdeckers don't get to pick when that threshold has been crossed.
Everybody wants Wasteland, WotC gives us all a shot at an extra special printing of it (alongside some other great utility lands) and yet it's still not good enough because so many on here think WotC is actively trying to screw everyone unless they print enough copies of Wasteland to make it drop to 5 bucks.
I think they can complain when the chance to get one is so low that it might as well not even exist. Much like keeping Goyf at mythic in Modern Masters, they do this to make it a lottery and give people the hope that they open something truly amazing, especially when most of BFZ and MM2 are awful and pretty bad, respectively. OGW looks better than BFZ at least, which will help the feeling when you don't get an expedition, or anything decent, but you can't really call these a reprint. That's like saying they reprinted Damnation as a judge foil and it would help the price of the card.
They can and will complain no matter what. If the hard to obtain cards are too good, it is a lottery. If they aren't good enough, the set sucks. If the good cards get printed a bit too much, the value was destroyed. If the good cards are too hard to get, then your budget becomes Wizards' problem.
Except it is only a lottery when there is nothing else in the set that makes you go "Meh, wasn't <expensive card>, but at least it is useful" which is what BFZ really lacked. If there were many other decent cards it would be much less of a lottery, which only annotates when you win it all or win nothing and having other decent cards would have greatly helped that. MM2 had a similar issue, sure Goyf was the main prize, but there was some other decent stuff, although there really should have been more for it's price increase.
Also, anyone complaining that the price of something dropped doesn't have any reason to complain, they chose to buy that card, but all cards have a chance to be reprinted, even those in the reserved list. As iron clad as some seem to think it is there is always that chance of them abolishing it, or even banning the cards on the reserved list in Legacy, which would also drop almost all of those cards prices down considerably.
Will there always be expensive cards? Yeah, that will happen, but when they have the ability to reprint some cards, but don't and print them as some super rare thing, then that is where a large problem can come from. They shouldn't be too afraid of reprints, they learned from Chronicles and still learning from Modern Masters, even Goyfs price is barely unaffected by multiple printings.
So you think the players would be happier if cards were both high in price per pack, but low in price overall. I guess it would feel more "fair", but also a lot more boring. Personally, I don't have a problem with some cards costing more money, because I don't feel that I am entitled to every card by virtue of desire alone. If I want a Wasteland expedition, then God Bless the free market; I can exchange time and effort for currency and trade that for one. THE SYSTEM WORKS!
I don't either, nor did I say that sets should be high in price, but the cards low in cost. Look at BFZ, there is only two real cards worth much of anything, because the other 95% of the set is utter garbage, if the set was strong then you wouldn't be able to find everything but two cards for under $5. Which is great for budget players, but that only shows how awful this set is.
Origins is a great set to look at worth of cards and usefulness of them, that is what I am talking about. Yes, everyone wants to open a Jace, but I'm sure his price will fall sooner or later once he rotates in Standard, but at least when you don't open him you have a chance at some truly useful stuff, not to mention pricey right now, which is a good thing, not hoping you only open Gideon and/or expeditions to make get a booster worth it. Now are boosters a bad choice if you want specific cards? Oh hell yeah, but no one will want to open packs outside of limited if there is nothing to be gained and that is the issue with the lottery of BFZ, and to a lesser degree MM2.
Don't throw words like entitled, because at no time did I say I was entitled to a damn thing. No one wants to be entitled to anything except for Wizards to try harder when it comes to reprints, because they have been failing at reprints spectacularly for a long time. You are not going to be able to afford anything, but when decks are only getting more expensive it should be Wizards job to help people even play the game at even the most casual level or lowest level of tournaments.
These foils are neat, but that's about it, we know this does nothing to the price of the cards themselves, and the only reason they put them in this set is to try and make this feel like Zendikar the first time around. Why not just reprint them normally in some sort of supplemental product to help the players play the game? Will Wasteland go down to $5? No, because it is amazing and people want two playsets, but there is no reason why it has to be so hard for Wizards to throw the players a bone on cards like these and not make them one a box. If the cards cost less that means more people will play the game as they won't be priced out of it, even Standard is getting too much for folks and Modern, at its cheapest, is still $150 for a budget deck.
Expensive cards means the game is doing well: it means people want to buy staples to play.
It's is rather amusing how people keep missing this very simple fact. Now obviously there is a threshold at which point prices become prohibitive but MTGS netdeckers don't get to pick when that threshold has been crossed.
Everybody wants Wasteland, WotC gives us all a shot at an extra special printing of it (alongside some other great utility lands) and yet it's still not good enough because so many on here think WotC is actively trying to screw everyone unless they print enough copies of Wasteland to make it drop to 5 bucks.
I think they can complain when the chance to get one is so low that it might as well not even exist. Much like keeping Goyf at mythic in Modern Masters, they do this to make it a lottery and give people the hope that they open something truly amazing, especially when most of BFZ and MM2 are awful and pretty bad, respectively. OGW looks better than BFZ at least, which will help the feeling when you don't get an expedition, or anything decent, but you can't really call these a reprint. That's like saying they reprinted Damnation as a judge foil and it would help the price of the card.
They can and will complain no matter what. If the hard to obtain cards are too good, it is a lottery. If they aren't good enough, the set sucks. If the good cards get printed a bit too much, the value was destroyed. If the good cards are too hard to get, then your budget becomes Wizards' problem.
Except it is only a lottery when there is nothing else in the set that makes you go "Meh, wasn't <expensive card>, but at least it is useful" which is what BFZ really lacked. If there were many other decent cards it would be much less of a lottery, which only annotates when you win it all or win nothing and having other decent cards would have greatly helped that. MM2 had a similar issue, sure Goyf was the main prize, but there was some other decent stuff, although there really should have been more for it's price increase.
Also, anyone complaining that the price of something dropped doesn't have any reason to complain, they chose to buy that card, but all cards have a chance to be reprinted, even those in the reserved list. As iron clad as some seem to think it is there is always that chance of them abolishing it, or even banning the cards on the reserved list in Legacy, which would also drop almost all of those cards prices down considerably.
Will there always be expensive cards? Yeah, that will happen, but when they have the ability to reprint some cards, but don't and print them as some super rare thing, then that is where a large problem can come from. They shouldn't be too afraid of reprints, they learned from Chronicles and still learning from Modern Masters, even Goyfs price is barely unaffected by multiple printings.
So you think the players would be happier if cards were both high in price per pack, but low in price overall. I guess it would feel more "fair", but also a lot more boring. Personally, I don't have a problem with some cards costing more money, because I don't feel that I am entitled to every card by virtue of desire alone. If I want a Wasteland expedition, then God Bless the free market; I can exchange time and effort for currency and trade that for one. THE SYSTEM WORKS!
You can actually have it both ways. Look at the Shocklands; the expeditions are each worth around $80, but the RtR/GTC versions are a much more reasonable $10-$15. Similarly, there's Sol Ring; You've got the Alpha, Beta, and Judge Promo versions for those who want bling, and the Commander series versions for those who just want to get the card in their deck any way they can. Accessible staples are fully capable of coexisting with expensive bling.
The problem comes when price points start prohibiting people from playing what they enjoy. If you're playing a deck with enemy colors, a playset of fetches or filters is going to cost you a triple digit figure. And that's for your friggin' mana base. Nobody's asking for WotC to tank the price on stuff like JtMS; we just want to be able to play our damn colors.
I forgot how dumb people can be. Keep doing God's work Canadian Guy. You're actually talking sense even if other players are oblivious to it.
He is? So you agree with him that we should just accept the idea of prohibitively expensive manabases without complaint? That we should applaud WotC for releasing rare promo cards without ever once pointing out that they haven't solved the problem we've been complaining about for years?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should boycott Magic or burn down WotC HQ. I don't even think that the expeditions are, in a vacuum, a bad thing. But considering the fact that WotC has basically poured glitter glue on a hull breach, I think it's pretty reasonable to point out the fact that that isn't an actual solution.
Does anybody think this will lower the price of regular wastelands even a little bit? Considering most legacy players will be swapping out their old wastelands for this one?
I think they can complain when the chance to get one is so low that it might as well not even exist. Much like keeping Goyf at mythic in Modern Masters, they do this to make it a lottery and give people the hope that they open something truly amazing, especially when most of BFZ and MM2 are awful and pretty bad, respectively. OGW looks better than BFZ at least, which will help the feeling when you don't get an expedition, or anything decent, but you can't really call these a reprint. That's like saying they reprinted Damnation as a judge foil and it would help the price of the card.
They can and will complain no matter what. If the hard to obtain cards are too good, it is a lottery. If they aren't good enough, the set sucks. If the good cards get printed a bit too much, the value was destroyed. If the good cards are too hard to get, then your budget becomes Wizards' problem.
Except it is only a lottery when there is nothing else in the set that makes you go "Meh, wasn't <expensive card>, but at least it is useful" which is what BFZ really lacked. If there were many other decent cards it would be much less of a lottery, which only annotates when you win it all or win nothing and having other decent cards would have greatly helped that. MM2 had a similar issue, sure Goyf was the main prize, but there was some other decent stuff, although there really should have been more for it's price increase.
Also, anyone complaining that the price of something dropped doesn't have any reason to complain, they chose to buy that card, but all cards have a chance to be reprinted, even those in the reserved list. As iron clad as some seem to think it is there is always that chance of them abolishing it, or even banning the cards on the reserved list in Legacy, which would also drop almost all of those cards prices down considerably.
Will there always be expensive cards? Yeah, that will happen, but when they have the ability to reprint some cards, but don't and print them as some super rare thing, then that is where a large problem can come from. They shouldn't be too afraid of reprints, they learned from Chronicles and still learning from Modern Masters, even Goyfs price is barely unaffected by multiple printings.
So you think the players would be happier if cards were both high in price per pack, but low in price overall. I guess it would feel more "fair", but also a lot more boring. Personally, I don't have a problem with some cards costing more money, because I don't feel that I am entitled to every card by virtue of desire alone. If I want a Wasteland expedition, then God Bless the free market; I can exchange time and effort for currency and trade that for one. THE SYSTEM WORKS!
You can actually have it both ways. Look at the Shocklands; the expeditions are each worth around $80, but the RtR/GTC versions are a much more reasonable $10-$15. Similarly, there's Sol Ring; You've got the Alpha, Beta, and Judge Promo versions for those who want bling, and the Commander series versions for those who just want to get the card in their deck any way they can. Accessible staples are fully capable of coexisting with expensive bling.
The problem comes when price points start prohibiting people from playing what they enjoy. If you're playing a deck with enemy colors, a playset of fetches or filters is going to cost you a triple digit figure. And that's for your friggin' mana base. Nobody's asking for WotC to tank the price on stuff like JtMS; we just want to be able to play our damn colors.
I forgot how dumb people can be. Keep doing God's work Canadian Guy. You're actually talking sense even if other players are oblivious to it.
He is? So you agree with him that we should just accept the idea of prohibitively expensive manabases without complaint? That we should applaud WotC for releasing rare promo cards without ever once pointing out that they haven't solved the problem we've been complaining about for years?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should boycott Magic or burn down WotC HQ. I don't even think that the expeditions are, in a vacuum, a bad thing. But considering the fact that WotC has basically poured glitter glue on a hull breach, I think it's pretty reasonable to point out the fact that that isn't an actual solution.
You think it's a problem but it isn't.
Having expensive cards is good for the game. WotC has been trying to find balance between accessibility and value with stuff like Modern Masters and it's an on-going process.
You think Eternal formats being expensive to get into are a problem because you fail to appreciate the hard work, time and money people put into making decks for those formats: I doubt someone who has put thousands of dollars towards a Legacy deck would be thrilled to hear that a bunch of his cards halved in value because the netdeckers on MTGS asked WotC to make it so.
And this is the crux of the issue: the player who has put in all that time, work and money into actually building the deck matters more to everyone than those who complain they can't do it.
People talking about stuff they have no idea about is hilarious.
People in here constantly ***** and moan about eternal staples not being made available and now we get one of the big ones in a set that is going to be mass produced and it's still not enough.
Entitlement is a disease that runs rampant on this forum.
Wasteland is going to appear in 1 out of every 4000 boosters and be worth $400, this is mass production?
You can't defend this.Sutch a ridiculous thing.I woudn't mind if most of the other cards were worth a damm.
I pray that OGW isn't a fail like BFZ
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BfZ is a fun set. Why are people complaining about WOTC printing money in their packs?
You get a shot at it whenever you draft or buy a pack for ***** and giggles.
Oh right, I keep forgotting the vast majoriy of posters in this subforum aren't good enough to draft and are far too drab to ever want to buy a pack just for fun every now and then.
No, once again a jump to an incorrect conclusion has been made. Just ask me people, don't assume. I'd actually be fine if Wizards would spoil NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH until day of sale. That would be different from the current predictable roll out as well. I feel ZERO entitlement. I can make recommendations though that are not expectations. Keep it fresh, change it up. Run some sets out quickly, slow others down. Find different outlets for spoilers. There are several ways the current boring and predictable rollout could be handled to make it LESS predictable. Wizards should not feel entitlement from us the buyers as well I say. It works both ways. If I don't like it, I'll let my wallet do the talking. I'm railing against the whiny group as well that complains about everything then rushes out and buys a case of cards then gripes about it afterwards. People need to think about their purchases and the statement it makes. And Wizards needs to show some adaptability and willingness to listen to the consumer. Both sides have fault, both sides CAN improve. Me included.
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It's better than literally nothing, I guess, but the expeditions are very clearly not making any major strides towards solving the problem people are complaining about. Getting your hands on, say, a Twilight Mire or a Scalding Tarn is still a pain in the ass, with or without the Expeditions.
It's is rather amusing how people keep missing this very simple fact. Now obviously there is a threshold at which point prices become prohibitive but MTGS netdeckers don't get to pick when that threshold has been crossed.
Everybody wants Wasteland, WotC gives us all a shot at an extra special printing of it (alongside some other great utility lands) and yet it's still not good enough because so many on here think WotC is actively trying to screw everyone unless they print enough copies of Wasteland to make it drop to 5 bucks.
Or, you know, have it show up in one out every 2 boxes of product...are you trolling or serious? No one can adequately even explain what market these Expeditions are for, everyone I know had either sold every one they've come across or traded in literally dozens of eternal staples to get just one or two of them for bling purposes.
Calling them a reprint is a tongue-in-cheek, almost laughable statement at best, and you have the audacity to look down on people complaining that the whole system is a lottery propping up an otherwise horrible set? Again, are you trolling or serious?
I think they can complain when the chance to get one is so low that it might as well not even exist. Much like keeping Goyf at mythic in Modern Masters, they do this to make it a lottery and give people the hope that they open something truly amazing, especially when most of BFZ and MM2 are awful and pretty bad, respectively. OGW looks better than BFZ at least, which will help the feeling when you don't get an expedition, or anything decent, but you can't really call these a reprint. That's like saying they reprinted Damnation as a judge foil and it would help the price of the card.
Universal to Magic players.
They can and will complain no matter what. If the hard to obtain cards are too good, it is a lottery. If they aren't good enough, the set sucks. If the good cards get printed a bit too much, the value was destroyed. If the good cards are too hard to get, then your budget becomes Wizards' problem.
Its both a reprint (weakly so) and it is a lottery. If it was'nt a lottery, it would have been a reprint of a suck card that everyone will ignore (and BFZ will totally crash
Kahns is still selling... so no, it did'nt have to be a lottery. But it is what it is :/ ... a cash grab. or a crutch.... I think BFZ needed it badly tho lol
Print too much and speculators get upset I guess.
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Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
Except it is only a lottery when there is nothing else in the set that makes you go "Meh, wasn't <expensive card>, but at least it is useful" which is what BFZ really lacked. If there were many other decent cards it would be much less of a lottery, which only annotates when you win it all or win nothing and having other decent cards would have greatly helped that. MM2 had a similar issue, sure Goyf was the main prize, but there was some other decent stuff, although there really should have been more for it's price increase.
Also, anyone complaining that the price of something dropped doesn't have any reason to complain, they chose to buy that card, but all cards have a chance to be reprinted, even those in the reserved list. As iron clad as some seem to think it is there is always that chance of them abolishing it, or even banning the cards on the reserved list in Legacy, which would also drop almost all of those cards prices down considerably.
Will there always be expensive cards? Yeah, that will happen, but when they have the ability to reprint some cards, but don't and print them as some super rare thing, then that is where a large problem can come from. They shouldn't be too afraid of reprints, they learned from Chronicles and still learning from Modern Masters, even Goyfs price is barely unaffected by multiple printings.
So you think the players would be happier if cards were both high in price per pack, but low in price overall. I guess it would feel more "fair", but also a lot more boring. Personally, I don't have a problem with some cards costing more money, because I don't feel that I am entitled to every card by virtue of desire alone. If I want a Wasteland expedition, then God Bless the free market; I can exchange time and effort for currency and trade that for one. THE SYSTEM WORKS!
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I don't either, nor did I say that sets should be high in price, but the cards low in cost. Look at BFZ, there is only two real cards worth much of anything, because the other 95% of the set is utter garbage, if the set was strong then you wouldn't be able to find everything but two cards for under $5. Which is great for budget players, but that only shows how awful this set is.
Origins is a great set to look at worth of cards and usefulness of them, that is what I am talking about. Yes, everyone wants to open a Jace, but I'm sure his price will fall sooner or later once he rotates in Standard, but at least when you don't open him you have a chance at some truly useful stuff, not to mention pricey right now, which is a good thing, not hoping you only open Gideon and/or expeditions to make get a booster worth it. Now are boosters a bad choice if you want specific cards? Oh hell yeah, but no one will want to open packs outside of limited if there is nothing to be gained and that is the issue with the lottery of BFZ, and to a lesser degree MM2.
Don't throw words like entitled, because at no time did I say I was entitled to a damn thing. No one wants to be entitled to anything except for Wizards to try harder when it comes to reprints, because they have been failing at reprints spectacularly for a long time. You are not going to be able to afford anything, but when decks are only getting more expensive it should be Wizards job to help people even play the game at even the most casual level or lowest level of tournaments.
These foils are neat, but that's about it, we know this does nothing to the price of the cards themselves, and the only reason they put them in this set is to try and make this feel like Zendikar the first time around. Why not just reprint them normally in some sort of supplemental product to help the players play the game? Will Wasteland go down to $5? No, because it is amazing and people want two playsets, but there is no reason why it has to be so hard for Wizards to throw the players a bone on cards like these and not make them one a box. If the cards cost less that means more people will play the game as they won't be priced out of it, even Standard is getting too much for folks and Modern, at its cheapest, is still $150 for a budget deck.
You can actually have it both ways. Look at the Shocklands; the expeditions are each worth around $80, but the RtR/GTC versions are a much more reasonable $10-$15. Similarly, there's Sol Ring; You've got the Alpha, Beta, and Judge Promo versions for those who want bling, and the Commander series versions for those who just want to get the card in their deck any way they can. Accessible staples are fully capable of coexisting with expensive bling.
The problem comes when price points start prohibiting people from playing what they enjoy. If you're playing a deck with enemy colors, a playset of fetches or filters is going to cost you a triple digit figure. And that's for your friggin' mana base. Nobody's asking for WotC to tank the price on stuff like JtMS; we just want to be able to play our damn colors.
He is? So you agree with him that we should just accept the idea of prohibitively expensive manabases without complaint? That we should applaud WotC for releasing rare promo cards without ever once pointing out that they haven't solved the problem we've been complaining about for years?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should boycott Magic or burn down WotC HQ. I don't even think that the expeditions are, in a vacuum, a bad thing. But considering the fact that WotC has basically poured glitter glue on a hull breach, I think it's pretty reasonable to point out the fact that that isn't an actual solution.
Time to be honest with yourself.
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You think it's a problem but it isn't.
Having expensive cards is good for the game. WotC has been trying to find balance between accessibility and value with stuff like Modern Masters and it's an on-going process.
You think Eternal formats being expensive to get into are a problem because you fail to appreciate the hard work, time and money people put into making decks for those formats: I doubt someone who has put thousands of dollars towards a Legacy deck would be thrilled to hear that a bunch of his cards halved in value because the netdeckers on MTGS asked WotC to make it so.
And this is the crux of the issue: the player who has put in all that time, work and money into actually building the deck matters more to everyone than those who complain they can't do it.