Colourless always existed thought, its not a 6th speudo-colour. Lands that tap for colourless could see an increase in power level (as you put it) only if the <><> costed carts are overly pushed.
They aren't "<><><>" costing cards. There is no "strict colorless." They cost colorless.
And this isn't really going to change the power level of most non-basics. Sure, some will be able to pay colorless costs, but the trade off of splashing for less colors rather than more is pretty evident. Also, there are SO MANY non-basics that can tap for colorless, but likely very few cards with colorless costs by comparison.
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Colourless always existed thought, its not a 6th speudo-colour. Lands that tap for colourless could see an increase in power level (as you put it) only if the <><> costed carts are overly pushed.
They aren't "<><><>" costing cards. There is no "strict colorless." They cost colorless.
And this isn't really going to change the power level of most non-basics. Sure, some will be able to pay colorless costs, but the trade off of splashing for less colors rather than more is pretty evident. Also, there are SO MANY non-basics that can tap for colorless, but likely very few cards with colorless costs by comparison.
I dont know why you are quoting me but, Kozilek, the Great Distortion is a <><> costing card, so the first part of your argument is invalid. As for the second part, I was the one arguing that this doesnt change anything in the power level of lands that could produce 1, so again, no idea why you are telling me this.
Kozilek doesn't cost <> any more than Lightning Bolt costs fireball. Kozilek costs colorless. Specifically, he costs 2 colorless and 8 generic.
As for the second part, if it seems like it might not have been aimed at you, maybe it wasn't?
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The <> in the first ability basically confirms <> to be exclusive-colorless in costs and heralds it being changed across the board too.
Ugh, that's the only part of this spoiler that I don't like... what was wrong with "T: Add to your mana pool"? Clear, concise, easy for newbies to pick up...
... and it limits their ability to produce a seventh basic land in the future with another new mana symbol.
I'm sure I'll get over it in due course, but it's making me scratch my head for now.
1 was unclear (two very different things used the same symbol) and hard for many newbies to pick up. This change is a good thing. We have six types of mana, but only five had their own symbol... until now! This is a victory for consistency.
Also, the chances of getting a completly new color (and an accompanying basic land) has been close to zero for years. I wouldn't hold my breath for that and would rather be happy about getting cards with colorless costs that act as a pseudo-sixth color.
Yeah, it is a change and might take a while getting used to, but it will feel rather natural after a while. How long did it take us to accept the new M10 wordings and rules changes? Exile, dies and battlefield seemed fine after only a few weeks.
(And I now expect to see new Eldrazi Scion tokens in OGW instead of reusing the BFZ ones.)
This would also make sense from a flavor standpoint, since Kozilek and his brood are now sweeping across the plane to process and refine the wastes of Zendikar. With a new Eldrazi titan comes a new batch of uniquely shaped Eldrazi Scions.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
So this confirms what will be the biggest change to the mechanics of the game since the introduction of the stack.
I'm pretty freaking excited about the new design space by the creation of colorless as a pseudo 6th color.
This is of course assuming this is real.
Aside from the rules change necessary to allow Wastes to tap for mana, and adding the option for colorless-only to costs, what exactly does this change that's so drastic? I'm not seeing it.
This adds a pseudo 6th color. It opens up design space beyond any change in recent memory, arguably since the introduction of legendary permanents. You can't underestimate the design space having colorless costs, and being lands and permanents have been making colorless mana for years, there have been generators since the beginning of the game. It's not as much a rule change as it is new design space. The amount of awesome new stuff we can have via colorless mana costs cannot be overstated.
IMO snow mana was much more of a 6th colour than strict colourless will be. Where Savage Lands was the RGB triland, Highland Weald was the RGS triland.
Back on the filter: As I saw it, there were three most likely scenarios for the expeditions in this set.
1) 10 filterlands and 10 manlands
2) 10 manlands, the 5 rarest filterlands (the Eventide ones), and 5 enemy tangolands (under the unproven but plausible scenario that they exist and are in Oath)
3) The 5 WWK manlands, the 5 rarest filterlands, 5 lands that aren't a colour cycle (Reflecting Pool, Gemstone Mine, Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy, and one other, maybe Wasteland if they were OK with printing something not in Modern), plus 5 enemy tangos.
If it's one of those three, it's now proven to be scenario 1.
Kozilek doesn't cost <> any more than Lightning Bolt costs fireball. Kozilek costs colorless.
What about someone saying "Lightning Bolt costs " - which is closer to what dread05 stated than "Lightning Bolt costs fireball". After all dread05 did not say "Kozilek costs diamond" - they instead used the currently most common way to represent the new colorless symbol in typing.
ADDITION:
With the new symbol out and the revelation that the filterlands are in the second set of expeditions I'm going to make a bold prediction andmake the call that all lands of the second batch of expedition lands will produce colorless mana.
This land is fake! There is no way Wizards is going to replace colorless mana production with the <> symbol. If so, the new Kozilek would've been been differently costed to reflect it. His casting cost would become, <><><><><><><><><><> instead of 8<><>. Or at least 9<>.
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I don't think press printing reflects sharp primary spectra like that in a concentrated area, should be more of a blur...it looks very odd to me. I would not buy a foil that looked like that off ebay.
and here is original art from PAX in August: https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/638455196880867328
You can see there should not be foiling effects in those areas, they are simply different shades of sky and water. What we have here is an office printer using various high concentrations of magenta, cyan, and yellow to attempt shading on a blanked foil card or overlay and not typical mtg press printing.
I don't think press printing reflects sharp primary spectra like that in a concentrated area, should be more of a blur...it looks very odd to me. I would not buy a foil that looked like that off ebay.
and here is original art from PAX in August: https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/638455196880867328
You can see there should not be foiling effects in those areas, they are simply different shades of sky and water. What we have here is an office printer using various high concentrations of magenta, cyan, and yellow to attempt shading on a blanked foil card or overlay and not typical mtg press printing.
Lighting is far from an excuse to justify calling it fake. Low resolution photography. And ofset lighting will always look different than staged pictures. I call real, giving colorless mana a symbol helps give the game more balance. Also supports colorless matters.
My guess is the former. We know there will be at least 3 manlands in OGW, and adding 5 other dual lands could be a little too much for a small set.
BFZ has 7 rare Dual lands plus Ally Encampment whuch can make five colors. I don't see having 8 rare duals as being a huge difference.
BFZ was a large set (274 cards); OGW is a small set (184 cards). That is a massive difference. Additionally, mana fixing in standard is even right now (accounting for the three OGW manlands), so adding the five enemy battle lands would throw that out of balance.
So this confirms what will be the biggest change to the mechanics of the game since the introduction of the stack.
I'm pretty freaking excited about the new design space by the creation of colorless as a pseudo 6th color.
This is of course assuming this is real.
Aside from the rules change necessary to allow Wastes to tap for mana, and adding the option for colorless-only to costs, what exactly does this change that's so drastic? I'm not seeing it.
This adds a pseudo 6th color. It opens up design space beyond any change in recent memory, arguably since the introduction of legendary permanents. You can't underestimate the design space having colorless costs, and being lands and permanents have been making colorless mana for years, there have been generators since the beginning of the game. It's not as much a rule change as it is new design space. The amount of awesome new stuff we can have via colorless mana costs cannot be overstated.
IMO snow mana was much more of a 6th colour than strict colourless will be. Where Savage Lands was the RGB triland, Highland Weald was the RGS triland.
Back on the filter: As I saw it, there were three most likely scenarios for the expeditions in this set.
1) 10 filterlands and 10 manlands
2) 10 manlands, the 5 rarest filterlands (the Eventide ones), and 5 enemy tangolands (under the unproven but plausible scenario that they exist and are in Oath)
3) The 5 WWK manlands, the 5 rarest filterlands, 5 lands that aren't a colour cycle (Reflecting Pool, Gemstone Mine, Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy, and one other, maybe Wasteland if they were OK with printing something not in Modern), plus 5 enemy tangos.
If it's one of those three, it's now proven to be scenario 1.
Manland text does NOT fit in the expedition frame.
It will be the 10 filter lands, and the 10 pain lands (both sets add <>).
So this confirms what will be the biggest change to the mechanics of the game since the introduction of the stack.
I'm pretty freaking excited about the new design space by the creation of colorless as a pseudo 6th color.
This is of course assuming this is real.
Aside from the rules change necessary to allow Wastes to tap for mana, and adding the option for colorless-only to costs, what exactly does this change that's so drastic? I'm not seeing it.
This adds a pseudo 6th color. It opens up design space beyond any change in recent memory, arguably since the introduction of legendary permanents. You can't underestimate the design space having colorless costs, and being lands and permanents have been making colorless mana for years, there have been generators since the beginning of the game. It's not as much a rule change as it is new design space. The amount of awesome new stuff we can have via colorless mana costs cannot be overstated.
IMO snow mana was much more of a 6th colour than strict colourless will be. Where Savage Lands was the RGB triland, Highland Weald was the RGS triland.
Back on the filter: As I saw it, there were three most likely scenarios for the expeditions in this set.
1) 10 filterlands and 10 manlands
2) 10 manlands, the 5 rarest filterlands (the Eventide ones), and 5 enemy tangolands (under the unproven but plausible scenario that they exist and are in Oath)
3) The 5 WWK manlands, the 5 rarest filterlands, 5 lands that aren't a colour cycle (Reflecting Pool, Gemstone Mine, Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy, and one other, maybe Wasteland if they were OK with printing something not in Modern), plus 5 enemy tangos.
If it's one of those three, it's now proven to be scenario 1.
Manland text does NOT fit in the expedition frame.
It will be the 10 filter lands, and the 10 pain lands (both sets add <>).
But all Expedition lands have been adapted to Zendikar in their art, and there's no Llanowar, Adarkar, Shiv or Yavimaya there.
C'mon some of you, stop hyping colorless lands unnecessarily. It doesn't really make them more or less powerful. You mean people haven't been tapping said lands for mana, ever? Oh lord... It hasn't changed functionally. Colorless are still colorless.
It does make lands that tap for colorless more powerful though. Take for instance, if you had a Mountain and a Battlefield Forge, you could play a card that cost 1R or <>R. You could not pay the latter if you had only a Mountain and a Cinder Glade in play, however. So for decks that utilize cards with <>, it makes the lands that produce <> more functional, i.e. more powerful. Sure, we've been tapping 1 producing lands forever, but they have functionally only been used for generic costs. Now they will be used for colorless costs, making them equivalent to producing an additional "color." In this sense, Battlefield Forge becomes a comes-into-play-untapped tri-land.
Filters plus Painlands seems like a reasonable assumption from a design perspective, but do consider the money involved. BFZ expeditions were worth, on average, tons of money, and the chance of pulling a land worth several hundred dollars was certainly a driving force for selling packs of the set. The Filterlands are worth a decent amount, and will likely gain some value if <> costs are pushed into the non-rotating formats. But Painlands? The most reprinted rare manafixing lands in the history of the game, and probably the lowest value? While they, too, will possibly enjoy some boost in value due to <>, they're simply not worth much. I'm struggling to see their presence in the expeditions as an incentive to buy packs.
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I don't think press printing reflects sharp primary spectra like that in a concentrated area, should be more of a blur...it looks very odd to me. I would not buy a foil that looked like that off ebay.
and here is original art from PAX in August: https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/638455196880867328
You can see there should not be foiling effects in those areas, they are simply different shades of sky and water. What we have here is an office printer using various high concentrations of magenta, cyan, and yellow to attempt shading on a blanked foil card or overlay and not typical mtg press printing.
Lighting is far from an excuse to justify calling it fake. Low resolution photography. And ofset lighting will always look different than staged pictures. I call real, giving colorless mana a symbol helps give the game more balance. Also supports colorless matters.
Low resolution and offset lighting if they were even present don't make for bad physics. There must be substantially different concentrations of monotone ink in use in those areas, they are adjacent areas of the landscape of the card and they are reflecting distinctly separate concentrated wavelengths. This alone would be enough since mtg press printing is not monotone. Oh and by coincidence I guess that the lighting was off-color enough such that the colors reflected happen to correspond to those used by most deskjet and laser printers and not that it wasn't off much at all.
Aside from the rules change necessary to allow Wastes to tap for mana, and adding the option for colorless-only to costs, what exactly does this change that's so drastic? I'm not seeing it.
This adds a pseudo 6th color. It opens up design space beyond any change in recent memory, arguably since the introduction of legendary permanents. You can't underestimate the design space having colorless costs, and being lands and permanents have been making colorless mana for years, there have been generators since the beginning of the game. It's not as much a rule change as it is new design space. The amount of awesome new stuff we can have via colorless mana costs cannot be overstated.
IMO snow mana was much more of a 6th colour than strict colourless will be. Where Savage Lands was the RGB triland, Highland Weald was the RGS triland.
Back on the filter: As I saw it, there were three most likely scenarios for the expeditions in this set.
1) 10 filterlands and 10 manlands
2) 10 manlands, the 5 rarest filterlands (the Eventide ones), and 5 enemy tangolands (under the unproven but plausible scenario that they exist and are in Oath)
3) The 5 WWK manlands, the 5 rarest filterlands, 5 lands that aren't a colour cycle (Reflecting Pool, Gemstone Mine, Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy, and one other, maybe Wasteland if they were OK with printing something not in Modern), plus 5 enemy tangos.
If it's one of those three, it's now proven to be scenario 1.
Manland text does NOT fit in the expedition frame.
It will be the 10 filter lands, and the 10 pain lands (both sets add <>).
But all Expedition lands have been adapted to Zendikar in their art, and there's no Llanowar, Adarkar, Shiv or Yavimaya there.
Fair point, unless the Eldrazi break free of Zendikar and are headed to other places...
I found it more funny that they now need to erata all old cards like An-Havva Township from Homelands.
I think they even need to make them in New Layout ;p
There's no need to errata the Township. The costs to adding the colored mana are just generic costs, paid for with any type of mana. The <> symbol will denote only colorless is needed going forward; older cards with abilities with generic costs will not all of a sudden need colorless. They will stay generic costs.
From a "modern" design perspective, a return to Dominaria is really difficult because of its lack of a cohesive identity. So I don't think Ulamog and friends are headed there any time soon.
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These expeditions' arts are within the plane of Zendikar. Painlands are a strong no for sure. Manlands are every bit a possibility. The difficult part is figuring what's the 5. My guess is they could be the colorless lands, new and old.
Gotcha Gotcha, read your post wrong; the first mana ability would need to be changed. I should have put 'Other than the first ability, nothing else would change.' Apologies.
These expeditions' arts are within the plane of Zendikar. Painlands are a strong no for sure. Manlands are every bit a possibility. The difficult part is figuring what's the 5. My guess is they could be the colorless lands, new and old.
The last one might be Eldrazi Temple or a new card in Oath.
I really don't think they can have anything nearly as text heavy as those.
Besides, can you imagine the uproar if they wasted Expedition slots on Shrine and Sanctum, one almost universally hated as a crappy Temple of the False Gods (which I think is a little unfair, but that's not the point) and the other considered semi-playable in EDH at best?
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
Its possible its fake, only given the art asset was available, but its very unlikely. It passes most of the tests people have to spot fakes and foiling is much harder to replicate. The foiling doesnt show any obvious signs of being fake.
So that winds up posing more questions than it answers, chiefly why would they errata cards they just printed in the same block (that are drafted together) rather than do this retemplate in BFZ? And that kind of missing logic is something we can only get from the horses mouth. Given what we've seen, the idea that kozilek is distorting the nature of colorless mana itself thematically is one possibility, on par with how bradywalkers were revised to allow planeswalker cards. Its still a terrible stretch
And this isn't really going to change the power level of most non-basics. Sure, some will be able to pay colorless costs, but the trade off of splashing for less colors rather than more is pretty evident. Also, there are SO MANY non-basics that can tap for colorless, but likely very few cards with colorless costs by comparison.
Kozilek doesn't cost <> any more than Lightning Bolt costs fireball. Kozilek costs colorless. Specifically, he costs 2 colorless and 8 generic.
As for the second part, if it seems like it might not have been aimed at you, maybe it wasn't?
1 was unclear (two very different things used the same symbol) and hard for many newbies to pick up. This change is a good thing. We have six types of mana, but only five had their own symbol... until now! This is a victory for consistency.
Also, the chances of getting a completly new color (and an accompanying basic land) has been close to zero for years. I wouldn't hold my breath for that and would rather be happy about getting cards with colorless costs that act as a pseudo-sixth color.
Yeah, it is a change and might take a while getting used to, but it will feel rather natural after a while. How long did it take us to accept the new M10 wordings and rules changes? Exile, dies and battlefield seemed fine after only a few weeks.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
This would also make sense from a flavor standpoint, since Kozilek and his brood are now sweeping across the plane to process and refine the wastes of Zendikar. With a new Eldrazi titan comes a new batch of uniquely shaped Eldrazi Scions.
IMO snow mana was much more of a 6th colour than strict colourless will be. Where Savage Lands was the RGB triland, Highland Weald was the RGS triland.
Back on the filter: As I saw it, there were three most likely scenarios for the expeditions in this set.
1) 10 filterlands and 10 manlands
2) 10 manlands, the 5 rarest filterlands (the Eventide ones), and 5 enemy tangolands (under the unproven but plausible scenario that they exist and are in Oath)
3) The 5 WWK manlands, the 5 rarest filterlands, 5 lands that aren't a colour cycle (Reflecting Pool, Gemstone Mine, Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy, and one other, maybe Wasteland if they were OK with printing something not in Modern), plus 5 enemy tangos.
If it's one of those three, it's now proven to be scenario 1.
What about someone saying "Lightning Bolt costs " - which is closer to what dread05 stated than "Lightning Bolt costs fireball". After all dread05 did not say "Kozilek costs diamond" - they instead used the currently most common way to represent the new colorless symbol in typing.
ADDITION:
With the new symbol out and the revelation that the filterlands are in the second set of expeditions I'm going to make a bold prediction andmake the call that all lands of the second batch of expedition lands will produce colorless mana.
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I don't think press printing reflects sharp primary spectra like that in a concentrated area, should be more of a blur...it looks very odd to me. I would not buy a foil that looked like that off ebay.
Look at the other spoiled cards on salvation that are foils, they reflect light how I'd expect, this one does not. It is noticeably different.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/650868-oath-spoiler-ayil-eternal-pilgrim
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/651638-new-green-red-legend-russian
and here is original art from PAX in August:
https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/638455196880867328
You can see there should not be foiling effects in those areas, they are simply different shades of sky and water. What we have here is an office printer using various high concentrations of magenta, cyan, and yellow to attempt shading on a blanked foil card or overlay and not typical mtg press printing.
Lighting is far from an excuse to justify calling it fake. Low resolution photography. And ofset lighting will always look different than staged pictures. I call real, giving colorless mana a symbol helps give the game more balance. Also supports colorless matters.
BFZ was a large set (274 cards); OGW is a small set (184 cards). That is a massive difference. Additionally, mana fixing in standard is even right now (accounting for the three OGW manlands), so adding the five enemy battle lands would throw that out of balance.
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How about
10 Filterlands
5 Battlelands
5 Urzas Saga lands
Manland text does NOT fit in the expedition frame.
It will be the 10 filter lands, and the 10 pain lands (both sets add <>).
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
But all Expedition lands have been adapted to Zendikar in their art, and there's no Llanowar, Adarkar, Shiv or Yavimaya there.
It does make lands that tap for colorless more powerful though. Take for instance, if you had a Mountain and a Battlefield Forge, you could play a card that cost 1R or <>R. You could not pay the latter if you had only a Mountain and a Cinder Glade in play, however. So for decks that utilize cards with <>, it makes the lands that produce <> more functional, i.e. more powerful. Sure, we've been tapping 1 producing lands forever, but they have functionally only been used for generic costs. Now they will be used for colorless costs, making them equivalent to producing an additional "color." In this sense, Battlefield Forge becomes a comes-into-play-untapped tri-land.
Low resolution and offset lighting if they were even present don't make for bad physics. There must be substantially different concentrations of monotone ink in use in those areas, they are adjacent areas of the landscape of the card and they are reflecting distinctly separate concentrated wavelengths. This alone would be enough since mtg press printing is not monotone. Oh and by coincidence I guess that the lighting was off-color enough such that the colors reflected happen to correspond to those used by most deskjet and laser printers and not that it wasn't off much at all.
Fair point, unless the Eldrazi break free of Zendikar and are headed to other places...
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
There's no need to errata the Township. The costs to adding the colored mana are just generic costs, paid for with any type of mana. The <> symbol will denote only colorless is needed going forward; older cards with abilities with generic costs will not all of a sudden need colorless. They will stay generic costs.
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Namely:
-Eye of Ugin
-Mirrorpool
-Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
-Sanctum of Ugin
-???
The last one might be Eldrazi Temple or a new card in Oath.
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I am about the first ability which should get <>
Not the other two which does cost (1)
I really don't think they can have anything nearly as text heavy as those.
Besides, can you imagine the uproar if they wasted Expedition slots on Shrine and Sanctum, one almost universally hated as a crappy Temple of the False Gods (which I think is a little unfair, but that's not the point) and the other considered semi-playable in EDH at best?
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GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
So that winds up posing more questions than it answers, chiefly why would they errata cards they just printed in the same block (that are drafted together) rather than do this retemplate in BFZ? And that kind of missing logic is something we can only get from the horses mouth. Given what we've seen, the idea that kozilek is distorting the nature of colorless mana itself thematically is one possibility, on par with how bradywalkers were revised to allow planeswalker cards. Its still a terrible stretch