I don't think you got the "Different cards = different gameplay", not every format needs to be 3+ colors, there's been a bunch of decks in the past that have played colorless lands and a bunch of basics and would love to play Battlelands, why? they can afford to play enough basics to be able to have battle lands enter the battlefield untapped on turn 3 and 4, and would really love to cast their 3 and 4 drops on curve, of course if you are playing a 3+colors decks with a bunch of non basic lands AND battlelands, you are setting yourself up to get screwed, and it is more than likely that have no idea of how to put together a mana base.
Right. So if come April, enemy-colored tangos are an option, Standard players will most likely ignore them in favor of lands with abilities in two-color decks, and pain lands in three-color decks (I'm having trouble believing no one will play three-color decks with so many powerful two-color spells still in the format -- for instance, Kolaghan's Command into Brutal Expulsion seems pretty sweet to me). For the next rotation, the benefit of "comes into play untapped" on a hypothetical U/R tango is not a benefit when Shivan Reefs is playable. The benefit is that it doesn't deal a damage to you when you tap it for colored mana, which isn't often an issue in a two-color deck anyway. In a 3-color deck without fetches, it's too easy to draw the wrong colors if you're trying to include a whole bunch of basics. So in a world with painlands -- or enemy manlands, for that matter -- enemy tangos are a bit of a dud.
That's not the main reason I don't think they'll be in Shadows, though; I think they won't be in Shadows because the rare dual slots will probably be taken up from replacing the allied-color land is that Standard is losing when Khans rotates. It would be really weird to have allied tangos as the only allied duals. I'm hoping we have something like Temples, because tangos are pretty limiting on your manabase in a post-fetch world.
I don't think they'll be in Oath for a similar reason -- they're already printing 3 enemy manlands and at least 1 colorless land has been spoiled already.
I'm sure they'll finish the set, in Lock/Stock or whatever, but I highly doubt they'll be part of this Expedition set. I bet we'll get another 10-land cycle like manlands or checklands or something.
I'm a huge, huge fan of the new colorless symbol. This greatly simplifies the process of teaching new players about mana costs without leaving them with the impression that 1 means "a mana of any color." Now (or rather a while from now, when the change has settled in) you can just let them get that impression and not have to worry that they'll start using Radiant Fountain as a strictly-better City of Brass.
I am a huge fan of it as well. I am not as concerned about teaching new players since I generally play with people who know the nuances of Magic, but I can definitely see why it is a positive to have a symbol to help differentiate "colorless mana" and "generic costs". I am honestly more interested in the Design Space this opens up. It sounds like only Oath will take advantage of this in the short term, but later sets may have a few cards that must be cast with only colorless mana. Hopefully Oath has more than just a couple cards that requires colorless mana to cast though.
Right. So if come April, enemy-colored tangos are an option, Standard players will most likely ignore them in favor of lands with abilities in two-color decks, and pain lands in three-color decks (I'm having trouble believing no one will play three-color decks with so many powerful two-color spells still in the format -- for instance, Kolaghan's Command into Brutal Expulsion seems pretty sweet to me). For the next rotation, the benefit of "comes into play untapped" on a hypothetical U/R tango is not a benefit when Shivan Reefs is playable. The benefit is that it doesn't deal a damage to you when you tap it for colored mana, which isn't often an issue in a two-color deck anyway. In a 3-color deck without fetches, it's too easy to draw the wrong colors if you're trying to include a whole bunch of basics. So in a world with painlands -- or enemy manlands, for that matter -- enemy tangos are a bit of a dud.
That's not the main reason I don't think they'll be in Shadows, though; I think they won't be in Shadows because the rare dual slots will probably be taken up from replacing the allied-color land is that Standard is losing when Khans rotates. It would be really weird to have allied tangos as the only allied duals. I'm hoping we have something like Temples, because tangos are pretty limiting on your manabase in a post-fetch world.
I don't think they'll be in Oath for a similar reason -- they're already printing 3 enemy manlands and at least 1 colorless land has been spoiled already.
I'm sure they'll finish the set, in Lock/Stock or whatever, but I highly doubt they'll be part of this Expedition set. I bet we'll get another 10-land cycle like manlands or checklands or something.
In both midrange and control decks battlelands are better than painlands because even one or 2 points of damage matter A LOT for those kinds of decks, painlands are really not an option those decks would consider unless they had no other choice, you can make an argument for aggro decks, as having your lands enter the battlefield tapped can be disastrous, but still aggro decks usually have a lot of basics and can support battle lands very easily, even if painlands are better in a vacuum and the damage taken from them is negligible most of the time, those decks will still play battlelands just because most of the time they will enter the battlefield untapped.
As I said earlier, from a development point of view, it makes sense to not have enemy battlelands in OGW, but from a marketing point of view, WotC probably rather have all 10 battlelands as expeditions than just half of them. Puls the only other 10 land cycle that fits are the manlands, and they have a couple of problems:
- Most of them are too "wordy" to fit nicely in an expedition
- Printing some of them (I'm looking at you Lavaclaw reaches) as expeditions would be such a waste of an expedition slot.
In both midrange and control decks battlelands are better than painlands because even one or 2 points of damage matter A LOT for
Like the 2-5 point of damage you take from not being able to Ultimate Price Zurgo because your land came into play tapped? >,<
The only thing that will save tangolands post-rotation is if the format really slows down. Otherwise people will go for more fungible manafixing. Believe what you want, but if I open a tangoland expedition, I'm on EBay the next morning so I can get it off my hands before it plummets in value. Fetches make tangos matter and tangos make fetches matter. Can't break up that couple without some problems.
But I'm not worried; we'll get some better duals in Shadows, I'm sure.
- Printing some of them (I'm looking at you Lavaclaw reaches) as expeditions would be such a waste of an expedition slot.
Yeah, that's an issue, but isn't that in issue for any set of 10 duals you can print? Again, it feels like they blew their wad with the fetches/shocks. Barring ditching the reserve list as a Christmas present to the community and printing a set of original duals.
Not every standard environment is going to support 3-color decks. The number of colors that the fixing in standard supports is one of the many pendulums that swings back and forth with the rotation.
Not every card is going to be useful during its entire stay in standard. I think you're overestimating how much effort WotC puts into making certain a card or group of cards maintains its playability.
Ancient Tomb is a confirmed expedition. And that is some really pretty art.
EDIT: Forbidden Orchard aswell.
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We have 10 (probably) filterlands and 10 (36-45) roguelands. From 36 Ancient Tomb.
So, no another cycle of tangolands in expedition cycle, and, high value, no enemy tangolands in OGW overall.
Ancient Tomb is a confirmed expedition. And that is some really pretty art.
EDIT: Forbidden Orchard aswell.
Wow, they're going some interesting places with the expeditions. Not only colorless producing lands, but still no other cycle. And the art of the expedition lands this time around speaks to me somewhat more.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Ancient Tomb also confirms we will have expeditions without hedrons, which means that the naysayers based on the lack of hedrons don't have a leg to stand on.
confirmed on twitch all lands / creatures / anything that produce colourless now produce <>
Simple. They are giving a symbol to colorless mana. I like it and it does open design space for them.
I would consider that was true, but if they were giving a symbol to colorless mana why does the new Kozilek have both the new symbol, and colorless? It doesn't make sense.
I have a feeling a very interesting block and standard format are ahead of us.
I would consider that was true, but if they were giving a symbol to colorless mana why does the new Kozilek have both the new symbol, and colorless? It doesn't make sense.
I have a feeling a very interesting block and standard format are ahead of us.
FFS, are people still confused about this? Number symbols in cost means generic mana. Mana of any cost.
Kozilek costs 8 generic mana and 2 colorless. The generic can be any type of mana. The {C} symbols are colorless-only.
I would consider that was true, but if they were giving a symbol to colorless mana why does the new Kozilek have both the new symbol, and colorless? It doesn't make sense.
I have a feeling a very interesting block and standard format are ahead of us.
FFS, are people still confused about this? Number symbols in cost means generic mana. Mana of any cost.
Kozilek costs 8 generic mana and 2 colorless. The generic can be any type of mana. The {C} symbols are colorless-only.
Oh.. is that so? Okay, that's not so bad then. So something like city of traitors can pay that costs? Is this confirmed? I'm referring to the new symbol, I get generic mana.
Oh.. is that so? Okay, that's not so bad then. So something like city of traitors can pay that costs? Is this confirmed? I'm referring to the new symbol, I get generic mana.
Yes, now the <> thingy is the new symbol for colorless mana. City of Traitors would read now "T: Add <><> to your mana pool."
Right. So if come April, enemy-colored tangos are an option, Standard players will most likely ignore them in favor of lands with abilities in two-color decks, and pain lands in three-color decks (I'm having trouble believing no one will play three-color decks with so many powerful two-color spells still in the format -- for instance, Kolaghan's Command into Brutal Expulsion seems pretty sweet to me). For the next rotation, the benefit of "comes into play untapped" on a hypothetical U/R tango is not a benefit when Shivan Reefs is playable. The benefit is that it doesn't deal a damage to you when you tap it for colored mana, which isn't often an issue in a two-color deck anyway. In a 3-color deck without fetches, it's too easy to draw the wrong colors if you're trying to include a whole bunch of basics. So in a world with painlands -- or enemy manlands, for that matter -- enemy tangos are a bit of a dud.
That's not the main reason I don't think they'll be in Shadows, though; I think they won't be in Shadows because the rare dual slots will probably be taken up from replacing the allied-color land is that Standard is losing when Khans rotates. It would be really weird to have allied tangos as the only allied duals. I'm hoping we have something like Temples, because tangos are pretty limiting on your manabase in a post-fetch world.
I don't think they'll be in Oath for a similar reason -- they're already printing 3 enemy manlands and at least 1 colorless land has been spoiled already.
I'm sure they'll finish the set, in Lock/Stock or whatever, but I highly doubt they'll be part of this Expedition set. I bet we'll get another 10-land cycle like manlands or checklands or something.
In both midrange and control decks battlelands are better than painlands because even one or 2 points of damage matter A LOT for those kinds of decks, painlands are really not an option those decks would consider unless they had no other choice, you can make an argument for aggro decks, as having your lands enter the battlefield tapped can be disastrous, but still aggro decks usually have a lot of basics and can support battle lands very easily, even if painlands are better in a vacuum and the damage taken from them is negligible most of the time, those decks will still play battlelands just because most of the time they will enter the battlefield untapped.
As I said earlier, from a development point of view, it makes sense to not have enemy battlelands in OGW, but from a marketing point of view, WotC probably rather have all 10 battlelands as expeditions than just half of them. Puls the only other 10 land cycle that fits are the manlands, and they have a couple of problems:
- Most of them are too "wordy" to fit nicely in an expedition
- Printing some of them (I'm looking at you Lavaclaw reaches) as expeditions would be such a waste of an expedition slot.
Like the 2-5 point of damage you take from not being able to Ultimate Price Zurgo because your land came into play tapped? >,<
The only thing that will save tangolands post-rotation is if the format really slows down. Otherwise people will go for more fungible manafixing. Believe what you want, but if I open a tangoland expedition, I'm on EBay the next morning so I can get it off my hands before it plummets in value. Fetches make tangos matter and tangos make fetches matter. Can't break up that couple without some problems.
But I'm not worried; we'll get some better duals in Shadows, I'm sure.
Yeah, that's an issue, but isn't that in issue for any set of 10 duals you can print? Again, it feels like they blew their wad with the fetches/shocks. Barring ditching the reserve list as a Christmas present to the community and printing a set of original duals.
Not every card is going to be useful during its entire stay in standard. I think you're overestimating how much effort WotC puts into making certain a card or group of cards maintains its playability.
EDIT: Forbidden Orchard aswell.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
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So, no another cycle of tangolands in expedition cycle, and, high value, no enemy tangolands in OGW overall.
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
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Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
06-15 Shock dual lands (WU, UB, BR, RG, GW, WB, UR, BG, RW, GU)
16-25 Fetchlands (WU, UB, BR, RG, GW, WB, UR, BG, RW, GU)
If there were enemy tango dual lands in OGW, their Expedition set numbers should also come first. People were predicting:
31-40 Zendikar Manlands (WU, UB, BR, RG, GW, WB, UR, BG, RW, GU)
41-45 Misc. lands
But so far on the number crunch we have:
Mystic Gate 26/45
Ancient Tomb 36/45
Forbidden Orchard 39/45
Indicating that it is likely just:
36-45 Misc. lands
Wow, they're going some interesting places with the expeditions. Not only colorless producing lands, but still no other cycle. And the art of the expedition lands this time around speaks to me somewhat more.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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I would consider that was true, but if they were giving a symbol to colorless mana why does the new Kozilek have both the new symbol, and colorless? It doesn't make sense.
I have a feeling a very interesting block and standard format are ahead of us.
FFS, are people still confused about this? Number symbols in cost means generic mana. Mana of any cost.
Kozilek costs 8 generic mana and 2 colorless. The generic can be any type of mana. The {C} symbols are colorless-only.
Oh.. is that so? Okay, that's not so bad then. So something like city of traitors can pay that costs? Is this confirmed? I'm referring to the new symbol, I get generic mana.
Yes, now the <> thingy is the new symbol for colorless mana. City of Traitors would read now "T: Add <><> to your mana pool."
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm