I think you missed the point. Here's the argument as I understand it:
The spell modes of Mirrorpool are also overcosted by about the same amount as the blighted lands, at 4 mana for Increasing Vengeance and 6 mana for Cackling Counterpart, without the flashback bonuses. Therefore there is no reason based on just the sacrifice abilities for Mirrorpool to enter the battlefield tapped when the blighted ones do not, especially because the former is mythic as opposed to uncommon. The conclusion from that is that the mana abilities are different, with the mana ability of Mirrorpool being stronger than that of the blighted lands. That way the blighted lands are not strictly better than Wastes because they have a different mana ability, and Mirrorpool is not strictly better than Wastes because it ETB tapped.
There's no comparison being made to uncounterable instants/sorceries.
The power level is also relative to whether or not <> is colorless or its own type. If it's colorless, a lot of decks can already have access to its abilities by way of things like pain lands, blighted lands, or other miscellaneous lands that they might already be running, unlike the blighted lands which require a specific color.
I believe he was looking for such a change mid block. The Lifelink/Deathtouch change happened on a core set, Magic 2010. I can't think of one off hand myself, but they have done a lot of mechanics over a lot of blocks.
This is an important point that doesn't seem to be getting enough press. Certain commanders have a terrible time getting their manabases simply due to lack of a basic land. This also gives the opportunity to add a "color" identity to colorless creatures if they so choose.
Setting up <> as colorless and 1 as generic is a simple switch to throw that would open up quite a bit of space for developing a colorless identity while also providing deck building tensions. That seems pretty in line with current design philosophies to me.
By certain you mean Emrakul, both Ulamogs, both Kozileks, and Karn. Most people run Sydri over Karn and Emrakul is banned in commander. Literally only 4 commanders have this problem and there are enough cheap non-basic lands they can run instead.
Those "cheap non-basic lands" also get smeared against nonbasic land hate. From the perspective of a person who has a colorless Commander card I will start by saying:
1. Having Wastes opens up massive design space for Commander players for options to use traditional artifacts that search for lands like Solemn Simulacrum.
2. Doesn't die to nonbasic land hate
3. Increases the capacity to build cheaper, friendlier Colorless decks through not having to rely solely on man rocks for ramp
4. Wastes allows them in the future to print a Colorless Commander preconstructed deck
Those four offer up the greatest availability for Commander product that I have seen in the last few years. To be honest, with the Kozilek and the potential for a Tentacruel Commander to increase the number of available colorless Commanders is something very large that will increase the deck building potential farther. Especially if any other colorless cards are printed.
I see this is an experiment to make the Eldrazi have a new identity, explain their intent with Zendikar, as well as give more towards their nature without destroying themselves. The question though, is whether the Wastes stay on Zendikar where Bala Ged once was becomes the new eldrazi "continent" or not remains to be seen. Which gives the potential for further product.
I agree with your statement bout Sydri, she just overwhelms Karn as a card. There's really no second guessing her on that front.
Colorless moving from an oddity to an official stand alone is more than enough time. There's mono brown in Legacy, there's some version of it in Modern to an extent, and Commander has had mono brown for years. It's about time to bring colorless into the mainstream.
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I can't think of a single time when they designed a block and made a fundamental design change that caused cards from different sets to have different rules printed on them.
Here are the ones that I can think of from the top of my head:
- Exodus, third set of Tempest block, was the first set to have set symbols colored according to the card's rarity.
- Urza's Legacy, third set of Urza block, replaced "Summon TYPE" with "Creature - TYPE".
- Saviors of Kamigawa, third set of Kamigawa block, introduced the ability word, even though the whole block would have profited from such a thing.
- Fifth Dawn, third set of Mirrodin block, changed the frame of artifact cards to a darker tone.
- Future Sight, third set of Time Spiral block, turned a few previously unkeyworded creature mechanics into keyword mechanics.
Yes, those are all just visual/cosmetic changes, but so would be replacing 1 with <> in mana producing abilities. It wouldn't cause cards to have different rules printed on them. It would just mean that one symbol that is a shorthand for "one colorless mana" would be replaced with another symbol that is a shorthand for "one colorless mana".
If Bloom Titan is not banned in the OGW then this land will make that deck very gross.
That really depends on how the rules of <> work. If it means "must be paid with 1 colorless mana" then Bloom Titan might have a hard time actually activating it (I don't think the deck runs a whole lot of colorless sources, and I think using your Sunhome/Stronghold for colorless mana over the ability isn't worth it).
If <> is functionally new mana (can only be paid by sources that make <>) then unless we get better utility <> lands, I don't see Bloom Titan running Wastes. Remember this is legendary, so you can't tutor 2 copies and use one to pay the other.
If Bloom Titan is not banned in the OGW then this land will make that deck very gross.
That really depends on how the rules of <> work. If it means "must be paid with 1 colorless mana" then Bloom Titan might have a hard time actually activating it (I don't think the deck runs a whole lot of colorless sources, and I think using your Sunhome/Stronghold for colorless mana over the ability isn't worth it).
If <> is functionally new mana (can only be paid by sources that make <>) then unless we get better utility <> lands, I don't see Bloom Titan running Wastes. Remember this is legendary, so you can't tutor 2 copies and use one to pay the other.
I'd advise looking at the spoiler again, it's definitely not legendary. Granted, your points are still mostly valid, but they can run two of these to proc at least one.
I can't think of a single time when they designed a block and made a fundamental design change that caused cards from different sets to have different rules printed on them.
Here are the ones that I can think of from the top of my head:
- Exodus, third set of Tempest block, was the first set to have set symbols colored according to the card's rarity.
- Urza's Legacy, third set of Urza block, replaced "Summon TYPE" with "Creature - TYPE".
- Saviors of Kamigawa, third set of Kamigawa block, introduced the ability word, even though the whole block would have profited from such a thing.
- Fifth Dawn, third set of Mirrodin block, changed the frame of artifact cards to a darker tone.
- Future Sight, third set of Time Spiral block, turned a few previously unkeyworded creature mechanics into keyword mechanics.
Yes, those are all just visual/cosmetic changes, but so would be replacing 1 with <> in mana producing abilities. It wouldn't cause cards to have different rules printed on them. It would just mean that one symbol that is a shorthand for "one colorless mana" would be replaced with another symbol that is a shorthand for "one colorless mana".
Yeah, this wouldn't be a functional errata which is the kind of errata they actively avoid. At least no more than errataing (is that even a word?) Menace onto older cards with the effect.
People do have a point that it's a little weird to do this mid-block, but it's not like it's something that hasn't happened before.
I'd advise looking at the spoiler again, it's definitely not legendary. Granted, your points are still mostly valid, but they can run two of these to proc at least one.
Oh wow, I saw the mythic and assumed Legendary. Thanks!
I kinda disagree with (<>) = colorless
OGW development should already started before BFZ release, kinda weird if the want (<>) to be colorless in OGW but doesn't introduce them earlier in BFZ where lands and scion use 1 not (<>).
my interpretation:
-(<>) has no color
-(<>) is specific generic mana such the snow
-mana source that is not waste won't produce (<>) unless the text said so (such as mirrorpool)
so you won't be able to play the new kozilek with only urza's or locust land
Something else that would be nice to get alongside this change is a darkening of the black mana symbol to a color like on Reaper King's mana cost. It would be aesthetically weird for generic mana, colorless mana, and black mana to all use the same tint of gray.
I kinda disagree with (<>) = colorless
OGW development should already started before BFZ release, kinda weird if the want (<>) to be colorless in OGW but doesn't introduce them earlier in BFZ where lands and scion use 1 not (<>).
Unless they specifically wanted to explore designing colorless cards using different methods for both sets. If they had chosen to also update colorless mana producing abilities to use <> in BFZ, that would be really weird if they wanted to still use devoid in BFZ but not actually use <> in the costs of cards.
They did one version of colorless card design in BFZ that did not need an update to the way that colorless mana is represented. They are doing another version of colorless design in OGW that needs to make the distinction between generic mana costs and the colorless mana type.
Except the Edict costs 6 mana, Explosive Vegetation costs 5, and Inspiration cost 7. That seems appropriate for uncounterable when you hike up the cost of those spells by a bit, minus Vegetation which only ends up costing one more. Sounds a lot better than being able to blow up anything 3 mana or less for 2 mana.
Sacrificing a land =/= "costing one more." I just see a lot of people ignoring that tempo is a thing.
But you have to tap and sacrifice your land. You cannot tap it for mana to pay its own cost. It essentially adds a mana to the cost.
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Poor Penumbra Spider was erattaed twice before his block was completed.
He gained reach and... what else was errata'd onto Penumbra Spider during Time Spiral block?
When Time Spiral first was released, the token that Penumbra Spider made did not have any abilities. The ability to block fliers was granted by the effect that created it. Planar Chaos's update caused the Spider to be errattaed to graft the "this creature may block as though it had flying" onto the token. Finally, Future Sight updated the Spider and its token to have Reach. Then M10 came along with "Battlefield" terminology, and Innistrad with "Dies".
Poor Penumbra Spider was erattaed twice before his block was completed.
He gained reach and... what else was errata'd onto Penumbra Spider during Time Spiral block?
When Time Spiral first was released, the token that Penumbra Spider made did not have any abilities. The ability to block fliers was granted by the effect that created it. Planar Chaos's update caused the Spider to be errattaed to graft the "this creature may block as though it had flying" onto the token. Finally, Future Sight updated the Spider and its token to have Reach. Then M10 came along with "Battlefield" terminology, and Innistrad with "Dies".
Huh, so it did. I learned some Magic today. I guess a little RTForiginalC on my behalf would have made that apparent. Always thought it was printed with a "with" instead of a "that can."
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isnt Mirrorpool an updated version of what Snapcaster Mage was originally supposed to be? I mean, you can sack that for a counter in a counter war. Cause if i remember correctly he wanted a land that tapped for blue and sacked for a counter spell.
Now, on to the whole "colorless mana" thing...the people who said <> was a 6th "color" were correct. Though <> is a colorless, its a special type of colorless that is used to cast spells with <> in their title. Just like with colored, it can also tap for colorless 1. Source? Saw it on stream of World Magic Cup
My only concern is, is this gonna be a "Planar Chaos" type of thing where its only for this block, or is this a new permanent thing? If its just this block, i hate it, but if its new permanent, i can dig it.
Mirrorpool's mana ability makes me think that the symbol doesn't imply "colorless mana", because 1 would have been completely fine to convey this meaning, just like any other colorless producing land. If that's some kind of "Eldrazi mana" I don't like the idea, because it's too parasitic to be interesting out of a single set.
Actually its not "parasitic" at all. Especially if it applies to all future sets. Making colorless mana matter. Use numbers would require reminder text on kozilek and mirrorpool. Stating that you must spend at least (x) colorless mana on each card and ability. Face it no one wants overly sloppy cards. So the new symbol for colorless mana is very usefull.
I believe he was looking for such a change mid block. The Lifelink/Deathtouch change happened on a core set, Magic 2010. I can't think of one off hand myself, but they have done a lot of mechanics over a lot of blocks.
Those "cheap non-basic lands" also get smeared against nonbasic land hate. From the perspective of a person who has a colorless Commander card I will start by saying:
1. Having Wastes opens up massive design space for Commander players for options to use traditional artifacts that search for lands like Solemn Simulacrum.
2. Doesn't die to nonbasic land hate
3. Increases the capacity to build cheaper, friendlier Colorless decks through not having to rely solely on man rocks for ramp
4. Wastes allows them in the future to print a Colorless Commander preconstructed deck
Those four offer up the greatest availability for Commander product that I have seen in the last few years. To be honest, with the Kozilek and the potential for a Tentacruel Commander to increase the number of available colorless Commanders is something very large that will increase the deck building potential farther. Especially if any other colorless cards are printed.
I see this is an experiment to make the Eldrazi have a new identity, explain their intent with Zendikar, as well as give more towards their nature without destroying themselves. The question though, is whether the Wastes stay on Zendikar where Bala Ged once was becomes the new eldrazi "continent" or not remains to be seen. Which gives the potential for further product.
I agree with your statement bout Sydri, she just overwhelms Karn as a card. There's really no second guessing her on that front.
Colorless moving from an oddity to an official stand alone is more than enough time. There's mono brown in Legacy, there's some version of it in Modern to an extent, and Commander has had mono brown for years. It's about time to bring colorless into the mainstream.
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If Bloom Titan is not banned in the OGW then this land will make that deck very gross.
- Exodus, third set of Tempest block, was the first set to have set symbols colored according to the card's rarity.
- Urza's Legacy, third set of Urza block, replaced "Summon TYPE" with "Creature - TYPE".
- Saviors of Kamigawa, third set of Kamigawa block, introduced the ability word, even though the whole block would have profited from such a thing.
- Fifth Dawn, third set of Mirrodin block, changed the frame of artifact cards to a darker tone.
- Future Sight, third set of Time Spiral block, turned a few previously unkeyworded creature mechanics into keyword mechanics.
Yes, those are all just visual/cosmetic changes, but so would be replacing 1 with <> in mana producing abilities. It wouldn't cause cards to have different rules printed on them. It would just mean that one symbol that is a shorthand for "one colorless mana" would be replaced with another symbol that is a shorthand for "one colorless mana".
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Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
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That really depends on how the rules of <> work. If it means "must be paid with 1 colorless mana" then Bloom Titan might have a hard time actually activating it (I don't think the deck runs a whole lot of colorless sources, and I think using your Sunhome/Stronghold for colorless mana over the ability isn't worth it).
If <> is functionally new mana (can only be paid by sources that make <>) then unless we get better utility <> lands, I don't see Bloom Titan running Wastes. Remember this is legendary, so you can't tutor 2 copies and use one to pay the other.
People do have a point that it's a little weird to do this mid-block, but it's not like it's something that hasn't happened before.
Oh wow, I saw the mythic and assumed Legendary. Thanks!
OGW development should already started before BFZ release, kinda weird if the want (<>) to be colorless in OGW but doesn't introduce them earlier in BFZ where lands and scion use 1 not (<>).
my interpretation:
-(<>) has no color
-(<>) is specific generic mana such the snow
-mana source that is not waste won't produce (<>) unless the text said so (such as mirrorpool)
so you won't be able to play the new kozilek with only urza's or locust land
Unless they specifically wanted to explore designing colorless cards using different methods for both sets. If they had chosen to also update colorless mana producing abilities to use <> in BFZ, that would be really weird if they wanted to still use devoid in BFZ but not actually use <> in the costs of cards.
They did one version of colorless card design in BFZ that did not need an update to the way that colorless mana is represented. They are doing another version of colorless design in OGW that needs to make the distinction between generic mana costs and the colorless mana type.
But you have to tap and sacrifice your land. You cannot tap it for mana to pay its own cost. It essentially adds a mana to the cost.
He gained reach and... what else was errata'd onto Penumbra Spider during Time Spiral block?
When Time Spiral first was released, the token that Penumbra Spider made did not have any abilities. The ability to block fliers was granted by the effect that created it. Planar Chaos's update caused the Spider to be errattaed to graft the "this creature may block as though it had flying" onto the token. Finally, Future Sight updated the Spider and its token to have Reach. Then M10 came along with "Battlefield" terminology, and Innistrad with "Dies".
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Huh, so it did. I learned some Magic today. I guess a little RTForiginalC on my behalf would have made that apparent. Always thought it was printed with a "with" instead of a "that can."
Definitely looking like an include in most EDH decks.
I am surprised it doesn't exile itself to be honest... Maybe because if it did it could power your opponents' processor effects in draft?
Now, on to the whole "colorless mana" thing...the people who said <> was a 6th "color" were correct. Though <> is a colorless, its a special type of colorless that is used to cast spells with <> in their title. Just like with colored, it can also tap for colorless 1. Source? Saw it on stream of World Magic Cup
My only concern is, is this gonna be a "Planar Chaos" type of thing where its only for this block, or is this a new permanent thing? If its just this block, i hate it, but if its new permanent, i can dig it.
Actually its not "parasitic" at all. Especially if it applies to all future sets. Making colorless mana matter. Use numbers would require reminder text on kozilek and mirrorpool. Stating that you must spend at least (x) colorless mana on each card and ability. Face it no one wants overly sloppy cards. So the new symbol for colorless mana is very usefull.