If the reserved list can't be revoked and if it really is the main culprit behind the legacy fall.
it would be better simply add every card in the reserved list to the banned list...
off course that would hit the format quite hard, but certainly would be a lot better than simply cuting the support.
even without duals and all cards in the reserved list, it's very likely the format would still be better than modern
If the reserved list can't be revoked and if it really is the main culprit behind the legacy fall.
it would be better simply add every card in the reserved list to the banned list...
off course that would hit the format quite hard, but certainly would be a lot better than simply cuting the support.
even without duals and all cards in the reserved list, it's very likely the format would still be better than modern
If the reserved list can't be revoked and if it really is the main culprit behind the legacy fall.
it would be better simply add every card in the reserved list to the banned list...
off course that would hit the format quite hard, but certainly would be a lot better than simply cuting the support.
even without duals and all cards in the reserved list, it's very likely the format would still be better than modern
It wouldn't be Legacy; it'd be Modern+. Burn / Affinity would get way too good if people had to rely on shocklands to fix their mana, and 3 color decks would basically be out of the question.
it's clearly not the best solution, but certainly better than simply letting the format die because of a stupid decision almost 20 years ago.
If the reserved list can't be revoked and if it really is the main culprit behind the legacy fall.
it would be better simply add every card in the reserved list to the banned list...
off course that would hit the format quite hard, but certainly would be a lot better than simply cuting the support.
even without duals and all cards in the reserved list, it's very likely the format would still be better than modern
If the reserved list can't be revoked and if it really is the main culprit behind the legacy fall.
it would be better simply add every card in the reserved list to the banned list...
off course that would hit the format quite hard, but certainly would be a lot better than simply cuting the support.
even without duals and all cards in the reserved list, it's very likely the format would still be better than modern
It wouldn't be Legacy; it'd be Modern+. Burn / Affinity would get way too good if people had to rely on shocklands to fix their mana, and 3 color decks would basically be out of the question.
it's clearly not the best solution, but certainly better than simply letting the format die because of a stupid decision almost 20 years ago.
If they gave a damn about the format, they'd just deal with the root problem. The Reserved List is in place because WotC wants it to exist.
They don't even reprint the staples that aren't on the RL. Why haven't Wasteland or Force of Will seen any sizable reprint over the course of the last 18 years?
Show me the people who have 24 copies of FOW. I've got my 4 that I pulled from packs. Everybody I know who also enjoys the format has their deck and very little extra. I think you are talking about collectors who also maybe play the format so they can use some of their collection. Those are not typical legacy players where I am from. On the other hand, I see a bunch of people with pages and pages of standard staples, and less often modern staples. But then again, that is not the majority.
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All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Let's not trick ourselves into thinking that one company has the power to kill a format. SCG is just one gear in the great machinery that helps keep MtG running. There is a Legacy GP this very weekend!
We should help encourage and organize events at our LGS'. I've been thinking about running a Legacy Night at my LGS for a while now. Perhaps it is time. They won't be the size and scale of SCG, sure, but someday they could grow into something. This is an opportunity to find other corners of the Legacy community that may have gotten drowned out by the size and scale of SCG events.
I hate to see legacy cut down ever. As most people voiced here, it's amazing to see the diversity of players ideas in deck construction but the format has slowly died. Unfortunately wizards can never get rid of the reserve list due to contract law. They have an implied contract with us, the players, to preserve the secondary market. To vastly reprint old staples and drop there price after the implicit promise to never do so violates this contract and I think wizards understands from a legal standpoint it is tantamount to suicide. They are trying like crazy to bring viability to legacy with new duals, fetches, powerful new cards. Sometimes it's an accident other times I think we can all agree they do it on purpose. I just hope people realize that while we don't agree with scg, they ARE a business, and must do what it takes to maintain profits. From articles promoting the new "best card for standard" to make sales to promoting events. They are in this for money.
Rest in peace legacy, modern will be soon behind again in another 5 to 8 years.
I hate to see legacy cut down ever. As most people voiced here, it's amazing to see the diversity of players ideas in deck construction but the format has slowly died. Unfortunately wizards can never get rid of the reserve list due to contract law. They have an implied contract with us, the players, to preserve the secondary market. To vastly reprint old staples and drop there price after the implicit promise to never do so violates this contract and I think wizards understands from a legal standpoint it is tantamount to suicide. They are trying like crazy to bring viability to legacy with new duals, fetches, powerful new cards. Sometimes it's an accident other times I think we can all agree they do it on purpose. I just hope people realize that while we don't agree with scg, they ARE a business, and must do what it takes to maintain profits. From articles promoting the new "best card for standard" to make sales to promoting events. They are in this for money.
Rest in peace legacy, modern will be soon behind again in another 5 to 8 years.
'Implied' contract is not same as a legally binding contract......
Regarding the inability to reprint revised dual lands for legacy, how about WOTC prints a new legendary dual land in a Commander product? This would not be a reprint, but would be functionally close to one. Something similar could be done with other legacy staples. Simply design and print a similar card with a minor difference.
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Modern:UB Taking Turns Modern:URW Madcap Experiment Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
Love legacy however don't live in the US so used to watch all the sunday twitch legacy streams until the change to get my fix. Was very upset when it was changed because standard is awful to watch. There's just so little variety.
I live in hope that one day they figure out a way to get more legacy staples out there, be it special cards or allowing proxies or whatever.
As to the people who mentioned modern. I wouldn't worry about that, modern masters ensures wizards and SCG can cash in on the format so they have no reason to drop support for it. It's just a shame that modern is so matchup dependant and you're forced to have answers or you just lose but there's so many different decks you can't answer everything.
Well, we've seen Theros without Serum Visions and (possibly) Daybreak Coronet, Khans come and go without Enemy fetches, then we saw Zendikar, which seemed like a no-brainer for them and the entirely too expensive Goblin Guide, still nothing. MM15 was a gigantic blown opportunity with 3/4 of the rares still sitting from their original sets in the 50 cent bin at your LGS. Then there's shady stuff SCG has done like the enemy fetch buyout or the Noble Hierarch price adjustment weeks ahead of it getting spoiled for MM15.
I think it's painfully obvious the writing is on the wall that there is at least some collusion taking place between WotC and SCG. One or both want Legacy to go away at this point, and so it shall.
I think it's also kinda curious that this is 'a year of stabilization' as WotC put it when explaining the reduction in events. Because after a ton of growth, you shrink unexpectedly. Last I checked, that's not what stabilization means.
Regarding the inability to reprint revised dual lands for legacy, how about WOTC prints a new legendary dual land in a Commander product? This would not be a reprint, but would be functionally close to one. Something similar could be done with other legacy staples. Simply design and print a similar card with a minor difference.
Apparently according to MaRo they cannot reprint any card with a different name. He said the timespiral artifacts were as close as possible but even still were a little too close.
My idea is they should just reprint dual lands that state on the cards you may only run these in edh. Heck that or just have something like,
Hot Moist Crevice
Land
: Add to your mana pool.
Lieutenant: If you control your commander this land is a mountain and an island in addition to its other types.
The point of abolishing/circumventing the Reserved List would be to help Legacy (and Vintage but that boat has likely sailed).
Legacy is a proxy only format here. Not enough people have the cards it's impossible to run a normal event. People like play legacy but it's just not worth the $$.
SCG decision is pretty simply financial. Magic has had a huge amount of growth recently, new players don't play legacy, so with all these new players who really have only invested in standard, maybe started to bleed into modern. There is just a large number of players that are new. So running Standard events just gets more people through the doors than legacy. $$.
West Coast has seen the most significant reduction of events.
Not like they did anything here anyway. Outside of Regionals, there's what, Seattle? East coast and midwest get Open events and GPs basically every other weekend. Southern California gets.... maybe one every two years?
Firstly most people don't straight up buy their deck for standard. They draft, they have their deck from last season, they trade cards they had for the new ones. So if they are new players they only have new cards, to trade with other people with standard cards for standard cards. This is also similar for Modern typically you choose a deck because you used to play it/or somthing similar in standard and have some of the cards. People often take a break from standard until it rotates out, trading their standard deck into the missing pieces for their modern deck. Remember we at talking about new players trading to other new players here.
There is a big difference between getting a deck and getting a deck you like. If you are going to invest that much you have to like the deck.
legacy is so insular and disconnected from most of the rest of magic.
Legacy is a proxy only format here. Not enough people have the cards it's impossible to run a normal event. People like play legacy but it's just not worth the $$.
That may be the case in your town, but in my small town, we have enough people to fire a Legacy FNM every two weeks (between 10 - 20 players). And the city I was in prior (Madison, WI) had enough Legacy players to fire three Legacy events a week, every week. Just because you don't play Legacy and don't think it's worth the money, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of us who do.
You are however correct that SCG is doing this because of money reasons. Those reasons being it's no longer profitable for them to buy your Legacy staples for significantly lower than they sell them at their overly inflated prices. People aren't buying anymore so they're supporting it less. When Legacy was growing, they promoted it because it was a cash cow for singles. Now, not anymore because they raised the prices too much. It's actually quite genius on their part.
I predict the next few years will be:
1) Stop supporting Legacy.
2) Continue buying Legacy staples at cheap buy prices. In fact, maybe some people will consider selling now.
3) Start supporting Legacy again.
4) Sell you back your cards at inflated prices.
5) lol?
Legacy is a proxy only format here. Not enough people have the cards it's impossible to run a normal event. People like play legacy but it's just not worth the $$.
That may be the case in your town, but in my small town, we have enough people to fire a Legacy FNM every two weeks (between 10 - 20 players). And the city I was in prior (Madison, WI) had enough Legacy players to fire three Legacy events a week, every week. Just because you don't play Legacy and don't think it's worth the money, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of us who do.
You are however correct that SCG is doing this because of money reasons. Those reasons being it's no longer profitable for them to buy your Legacy staples for significantly lower than they sell them at their overly inflated prices. People aren't buying anymore so they're supporting it less. When Legacy was growing, they promoted it because it was a cash cow for singles. Now, not anymore because they raised the prices too much. It's actually quite genius on their part.
I predict the next few years will be:
1) Stop supporting Legacy.
2) Continue buying Legacy staples at cheap buy prices. In fact, maybe some people will consider selling now.
3) Start supporting Legacy again.
4) Sell you back your cards at inflated prices.
5) lol?
heh... Well, I live near the bay area California. I get to 3-4 Modern events a week. A commander event or two a week. As for legacy, Channel Fireball's the only one that does it at a one time a month interval. Competition's tough and I enjoy it. Made it to the top 8 a few times, and there's about 40-50 to show up for the once a month 1k event.
Legacy players will never accept that they themselves killed Legacy. You made a format that's completely inaccessible and hold your superiority over everyone else then are blown away when SCG and WotC want to stop supporting a niche format. Your format is the smallest and most babied.
Literally any player can play draft or sealed by showing up, far more people play standard and modern than legacy, your format doesn't deserve half the support it gets. And it probably keeps a lot of great people out of invitationals. Legacy deserves to fade away. WotC tried to save it but you want your cards to be worth as much as a car and simultaneously want a healthy growing format, you can't have it both ways. We have standard, modern, draft and sealed, we don't need an extremely restrictive 5th format. Guarantee each of those 4 formats raises more money than legacy. You did this to yourselves, they don't just cut an entire format to spite you, they cut it because it made financial sense.
Legacy players will never accept that they themselves killed Legacy. You made a format that's completely inaccessible and hold your superiority over everyone else then are blown away when SCG and WotC want to stop supporting a niche format. Your format is the smallest and most babied.
Literally any player can play draft or sealed by showing up, far more people play standard and modern than legacy, your format doesn't deserve half the support it gets. And it probably keeps a lot of great people out of invitationals. Legacy deserves to fade away. WotC tried to save it but you want your cards to be worth as much as a car and simultaneously want a healthy growing format, you can't have it both ways. We have standard, modern, draft and sealed, we don't need an extremely restrictive 5th format. Guarantee each of those 4 formats raises more money than legacy. You did this to yourselves, they don't just cut an entire format to spite you, they cut it because it made financial sense.
What are you basing this opinion on? Collectors may want the RL to stay, but I don't think that's true of Legacy players.
'Implied' contract is not same as a legally binding contract......
You shouldn't speak in absolutes if you don't know what are you talking about. Yes, an implied contract is exactly as legally binding as a written contract, it's just harder to prove its existence.
I believe WotC tried to remove the reserved list years ago but there was massive backlash to it and they didn't.
That's not how it happened:
Of course that discussion is moot. Two years ago thanks to a massive amount of pressure from the community Wizards staff had a meeting with a select group of players collectors and storeowners to discuss what to do with the reserved list. Ultimately even though nearly everyone in R&D wanted to abolish the list Wizards decided that they could not break the promise that they made all those years ago. The prevailing theory is that the Hasbro legal department was worried about lawsuits from collectors over falling secondary market prices but that's just conjecture.
Well, I hope some people who were in favor of the reserved list because "legacy was healthy and growing" will come to their senses. It's not that the format is boring, it's that so few players can afford to get in because of the cards' ridiculous prices.
Legacy players will never accept that they themselves killed Legacy. You made a format that's completely inaccessible and hold your superiority over everyone else then are blown away when SCG and WotC want to stop supporting a niche format. Your format is the smallest and most babied.
Literally any player can play draft or sealed by showing up, far more people play standard and modern than legacy, your format doesn't deserve half the support it gets. And it probably keeps a lot of great people out of invitationals. Legacy deserves to fade away. WotC tried to save it but you want your cards to be worth as much as a car and simultaneously want a healthy growing format, you can't have it both ways. We have standard, modern, draft and sealed, we don't need an extremely restrictive 5th format. Guarantee each of those 4 formats raises more money than legacy. You did this to yourselves, they don't just cut an entire format to spite you, they cut it because it made financial sense.
What are you basing this opinion on? Collectors may want the RL to stay, but I don't think that's true of Legacy players.
At our local store, most of the group is strongly anti-RL, and these are guys running Lands, 12 Post, Dredge, BUG (and run ridiculously expensive cards) or have full sets of ABUR duals.
I rather see the prices crash and continue playing the format I love than watch it wither away.
As it stands, our group right now is acting like a doctor just gave Legacy a terminal diagnosis.
it would be better simply add every card in the reserved list to the banned list...
off course that would hit the format quite hard, but certainly would be a lot better than simply cuting the support.
even without duals and all cards in the reserved list, it's very likely the format would still be better than modern
it's clearly not the best solution, but certainly better than simply letting the format die because of a stupid decision almost 20 years ago.
If they gave a damn about the format, they'd just deal with the root problem. The Reserved List is in place because WotC wants it to exist.
They don't even reprint the staples that aren't on the RL. Why haven't Wasteland or Force of Will seen any sizable reprint over the course of the last 18 years?
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
We should help encourage and organize events at our LGS'. I've been thinking about running a Legacy Night at my LGS for a while now. Perhaps it is time. They won't be the size and scale of SCG, sure, but someday they could grow into something. This is an opportunity to find other corners of the Legacy community that may have gotten drowned out by the size and scale of SCG events.
Rest in peace legacy, modern will be soon behind again in another 5 to 8 years.
'Implied' contract is not same as a legally binding contract......
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
Theros Myth Origins Part 1 WUBRG Part 2 GRBUW Born of the Gods
Beta Client Tutorial
Momir Basic Primer
Full article list
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
Huh>?
I'm a little confused about what you're saying here..
I live in hope that one day they figure out a way to get more legacy staples out there, be it special cards or allowing proxies or whatever.
As to the people who mentioned modern. I wouldn't worry about that, modern masters ensures wizards and SCG can cash in on the format so they have no reason to drop support for it. It's just a shame that modern is so matchup dependant and you're forced to have answers or you just lose but there's so many different decks you can't answer everything.
I think it's painfully obvious the writing is on the wall that there is at least some collusion taking place between WotC and SCG. One or both want Legacy to go away at this point, and so it shall.
I think it's also kinda curious that this is 'a year of stabilization' as WotC put it when explaining the reduction in events. Because after a ton of growth, you shrink unexpectedly. Last I checked, that's not what stabilization means.
The point of abolishing/circumventing the Reserved List would be to help Legacy (and Vintage but that boat has likely sailed).
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
SCG decision is pretty simply financial. Magic has had a huge amount of growth recently, new players don't play legacy, so with all these new players who really have only invested in standard, maybe started to bleed into modern. There is just a large number of players that are new. So running Standard events just gets more people through the doors than legacy. $$.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Not like they did anything here anyway. Outside of Regionals, there's what, Seattle? East coast and midwest get Open events and GPs basically every other weekend. Southern California gets.... maybe one every two years?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Firstly most people don't straight up buy their deck for standard. They draft, they have their deck from last season, they trade cards they had for the new ones. So if they are new players they only have new cards, to trade with other people with standard cards for standard cards. This is also similar for Modern typically you choose a deck because you used to play it/or somthing similar in standard and have some of the cards. People often take a break from standard until it rotates out, trading their standard deck into the missing pieces for their modern deck. Remember we at talking about new players trading to other new players here.
There is a big difference between getting a deck and getting a deck you like. If you are going to invest that much you have to like the deck.
legacy is so insular and disconnected from most of the rest of magic.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
That may be the case in your town, but in my small town, we have enough people to fire a Legacy FNM every two weeks (between 10 - 20 players). And the city I was in prior (Madison, WI) had enough Legacy players to fire three Legacy events a week, every week. Just because you don't play Legacy and don't think it's worth the money, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of us who do.
Also the data from SCG's own site says that Legacy, Modern, and Standard Opens have more or less the same attendance even after they went the crappy two day try-to-be-a-GP format:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/3r9emh/scg_organized_play_update_now_with_even_less/cwm2t1f
You are however correct that SCG is doing this because of money reasons. Those reasons being it's no longer profitable for them to buy your Legacy staples for significantly lower than they sell them at their overly inflated prices. People aren't buying anymore so they're supporting it less. When Legacy was growing, they promoted it because it was a cash cow for singles. Now, not anymore because they raised the prices too much. It's actually quite genius on their part.
I predict the next few years will be:
1) Stop supporting Legacy.
2) Continue buying Legacy staples at cheap buy prices. In fact, maybe some people will consider selling now.
3) Start supporting Legacy again.
4) Sell you back your cards at inflated prices.
5) lol?
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
heh... Well, I live near the bay area California. I get to 3-4 Modern events a week. A commander event or two a week. As for legacy, Channel Fireball's the only one that does it at a one time a month interval. Competition's tough and I enjoy it. Made it to the top 8 a few times, and there's about 40-50 to show up for the once a month 1k event.
Literally any player can play draft or sealed by showing up, far more people play standard and modern than legacy, your format doesn't deserve half the support it gets. And it probably keeps a lot of great people out of invitationals. Legacy deserves to fade away. WotC tried to save it but you want your cards to be worth as much as a car and simultaneously want a healthy growing format, you can't have it both ways. We have standard, modern, draft and sealed, we don't need an extremely restrictive 5th format. Guarantee each of those 4 formats raises more money than legacy. You did this to yourselves, they don't just cut an entire format to spite you, they cut it because it made financial sense.
What are you basing this opinion on? Collectors may want the RL to stay, but I don't think that's true of Legacy players.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
That's not how it happened:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/finance/24792-I-Hate-The-Reserved-List.html
The community wants the RL to be thrown in the bushes.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
At our local store, most of the group is strongly anti-RL, and these are guys running Lands, 12 Post, Dredge, BUG (and run ridiculously expensive cards) or have full sets of ABUR duals.
I rather see the prices crash and continue playing the format I love than watch it wither away.
As it stands, our group right now is acting like a doctor just gave Legacy a terminal diagnosis.