When you fill it again it just makes her less of a threat honestly. Chainer can return cards at will given the mana, Geth can kill your opponent potentially, and Balthor is usually a win when he goes off. The thing about "filling it again" is that they have to take the time to do so.
As I said before, when you hit her graveyard she is much less of a threat after the fact. It becomes obvious what she is going for. I'm much more scared of Karador since being white he often gets back plenty of nasty things.
Even now there is more hate for her. Containment Priest (and Hallowed moonlight to an extent). Like I said, it just takes a well placed graveyard hit to cripple her. I'm saying that from playing against many graveyard decks. The hate for them is surprisingly common.
I want whatever you're smoking. The difference between those cards you mentioned and Meren is that those cards take mana to reanimate, Meren does not. You are free to do whatever else you want with your mana during your turn if you want to reanimate with Meren.
I'm soo incredibly happy that her art ends up on a card that's both very promising in terms of power level and at the same time interesting and fun to build around. Pretty much my choice unless the last two can top her.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
That being said I'll likely run her. Just because the art is so kick ass, and the zombie dragon, and the name, and because of the likely chance she is from Jund.
She *is* from Jund- they've already told us that
Perfect. I can finally realize my dream of a deck with a Jund female. Excuse me, a non sucky jund female.
Upon further analysis, it seems I was a bit hasty and linear with my statements. I have brought shame to Phyrexia. I must be repurposed.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I welcome you.....to the pure world I have forged.
Graveyard commanders weak to graveyard hate. More at 11.
Seriously, any graveyard based commander will have a plan b. Kill the graveyard hate or just don't dump all your crap in one shot. Most graveyard commanders have powerful ramp abilities as well. Granted she will have a huge target on her head but what graveyard based commander doesnt?
Also I like how this commander is at the end step. There are fewer counters to end step shennigans rather than upkeep. It also means you can sac or kill your own stuff so you can bring back a bigger creature.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
I want whatever you're smoking. The difference between those cards you mentioned and Meren is that those cards take mana to reanimate, Meren does not. You are free to do whatever else you want with your mana during your turn if you want to reanimate with Meren.
I feel like some people are looking for big explosive flashy effects when they look at a reanimation effect - like 2 mana Jin-Gitaxias stuff. But yeah, this is a plug and play kind of commander that will grind people out while letting you continue to advance your game independent of the effect. There will be plenty of big plays off this card, but I'm more looking at "Sac Bloodghast to Skullclamp, draw 2 cards, play a land, sac Bloodghast to Skullclamp, draw 2 more cards, and at end of turn get him back to do it all again next turn." Slower grindier plays with low CMC creatures seem fine here. There will be big Avenger of Zendikar bombs that just keep coming back. And let's also not put too much thought into Meren in Prossch.
/Also, Geth and Chainer don't give you access to green... you know, green? The color color that pretty much shores up black's weaknesses and supports black's desire to churn through creatures at breakneck speed? Yeah.
Not to mention that she is just sick as a followup play to Awakening Zone. On turn 5 you have like all this free stuff going on throw in the skeleton and a few recurring cheap creatures, and it just all snowballs.
Except her ability triggers at the end phase. If it was at the beginning of the turn then I would say otherwise.
I would ask if you knew that the fact that it triggers on the End Step is a good thing, but obviously you don't. If it triggered on the upkeep it would be so much worse it's not even funny. It would have to survive for an entire turn around the table before it generated any value for you. The fact that it works on end step means it's getting you value unless it's killed at instant speed. The only way it could be better is if it triggered on the second main phase but they almost never print stuff like that anymore. Realistically this is as good as you can ask for with the timing of the ability.
Or if it triggered when she entered play, like Sharuum the Hegemon does. Meren is not bad, but I can see why people are underwhelmed. Between the setup for the experience counters and the fact that you need a lot to get a big baddy directly to the battlefield, it seems a little slow for a traditional reanimator. Lots of room for people to disrupt you before you go off.
I do like the idea of adding her to Savra, Queen of the Golgari, though, just for another value engine -- having other stuff to do in my Savra deck if Meren happens to eat a removal spell, which seems likely, before she gives me a free Raise Dead -- but I doubt I'd want to run her as a commander.
EDIT -- @Galspanic -- Yeah, I think I would want something a little flashier if I wanted to run a commander specifically for her reanimation effect; I'm sold on her as a card in the grindier B/G value builds (of which my Savra is definitely one), but I think there are better options for commanders in those builds? I don't know, I guess a lot depends on your playgroup.
I want whatever you're smoking. The difference between those cards you mentioned and Meren is that those cards take mana to reanimate, Meren does not. You are free to do whatever else you want with your mana during your turn if you want to reanimate with Meren.
I feel like some people are looking for big explosive flashy effects when they look at a reanimation effect - like 2 mana Jin-Gitaxias stuff. But yeah, this is a plug and play kind of commander that will grind people out while letting you continue to advance your game independent of the effect. There will be plenty of big plays off this card, but I'm more looking at "Sac Bloodghast to Skullclamp, draw 2 cards, play a land, sac Bloodghast to Skullclamp, draw 2 more cards, and at end of turn get him back to do it all again next turn." Slower grindier plays with low CMC creatures seem fine here. There will be big Avenger of Zendikar bombs that just keep coming back. And let's also not put too much thought into Meren in Prossch.
/Also, Geth and Chainer don't give you access to green... you know, green? The color color that pretty much shores up black's weaknesses and supports black's desire to churn through creatures at breakneck speed? Yeah.
You are absolutely correct. This is not a big flashy play kind of Commander. In that respect it is somewhat similar to Karador. In fact, I think she'd be better suited to Damia, Sage of Stone than Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
EDIT -- @Galspanic -- Yeah, I think I would want something a little flashier if I wanted to run a commander specifically for her reanimation effect; I'm sold on her as a card in the grindier B/G value builds (of which my Savra is definitely one), but I think there are better options for commanders in those builds? I don't know, I guess a lot depends on your playgroup.
Then I would imagine you would pay 7 mana for that card. The fact that she costs only 4 means that you get to start the engine early.
Also, this isn't a "reanimator" general. She is an attrition/control or value/tempo general.
I dont understand. I think *new* jund would be in WUR colors. For analogy of *new* esper is RUG - Etherium-Horn Sorcerer and Shardless Agent. So why its still BG?
It is better that it doesn't trigger when she enters play, or at least arguably better. Using Eldrazi Scions, and Eldrazi Spawn, (especially with a Catacomb Sifter), you can cast something the same turn she comes down and then also gain some experience tokens and still bring something into play. If she triggered on coming into play, then her first time coming into play she'd only ever be a Raise Dead that first turn.
I think I might need to make room for Meren in my prossh deck. As for her dragon yeah it's easy enough for prossh to generate enough sac fodder to abuse its ability but it's still a vanilla 6/6 once that ability is out of the way...
[quote from="docstorm4 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/646050-spoilers-nov-4?comment=57"]
/Also, Geth and Chainer don't give you access to green... you know, green? The color color that pretty much shores up black's weaknesses and supports black's desire to churn through creatures at breakneck speed? Yeah.
Not to mention Chainer's nightmares all blow up to a well placed Lightning Bolt and Geth requires a huge mana investment. Unlike both, Meren generates great passive value with no active investment. While your opponents rush to remove it, you're already busy playing BG's other sick creatures, and by the second or third time you cast it, you'll have enough experience counters to make it generate a threat every turn... while you're still busy doing other stuff. She's not a combo general, she's a great rock-style general. If you try to build her into a typical reanimator deck, you won't get great value out of her abilities.
EDIT -- @Galspanic -- Yeah, I think I would want something a little flashier if I wanted to run a commander specifically for her reanimation effect; I'm sold on her as a card in the grindier B/G value builds (of which my Savra is definitely one), but I think there are better options for commanders in those builds? I don't know, I guess a lot depends on your playgroup.
Then I would imagine you would pay 7 mana for that card. The fact that she costs only 4 means that you get to start the engine early.
Also, this isn't a "reanimator" general. She is an attrition/control or value/tempo general.
To be fair though, as soon as you amass enough counters (anywhere between 3-8+ depending on the deck), her reanimation becomes a *serious* threat that can cheat horrifying things like Sheoldred into play the same turn she (re)arrives.
I'm half tempted to turn my Jarad deck into a Meren deck and just tutor for Jarad once the pieces are in place...
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Meren and her dragon are awesome, I have NO idea why everybody is complaining. Plays perfectly with the reanimator theme of this deck and the sacrifice theme of previous G/B color combos.
[quote]There will be big Avenger of Zendikar bombs that just keep coming back. And let's also not put too much thought into Meren in Prossch. [/quote\
Honestly, while Avenger of Zendikar every turn might be nice, I really want to play Avenger in an Ezuri deck.
"oops, 7+ exp counters out of nowhere what are you gonna do"
Meren and her dragon are awesome, I have NO idea why everybody is complaining.
Pretty sure nobody is except 1 person.
And even he finally recognized this card's quality, so it's literally 0 complaints at this point.
Whoever designed Meren deserves a cookie or something.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Meren and her dragon are awesome, I have NO idea why everybody is complaining.
Pretty sure nobody is except 1 person.
And even he finally recognized this card's quality, so it's literally 0 complaints at this point.
Whoever designed Meren deserves a cookie or something.
I'm sure we can find some things to complain about. For example, why doesn't she have Hexproof? Why is her power not 4? Why is she limited to Regrowing creatures? She's basically worse than Eternal Witness.
She's definitely more the grindy type of commander. Seems great with cards like STEve and yavimaya elder and fleshy and whatnot. Even an every-turn raise dead starting the turn you cast her seems excellent. Still, whenever I start to think about making a GB commander, I end up just remaking Glissa again because she has the most excellent ability ever created on a magic card.
It's a bit frustrating that GB seems to get two of the most powerful legends in recent memory, while RW gets bad french vanilla beaters, though. Have a heart for the underdog, wizards.
It's a bit frustrating that GB seems to get two of the most powerful legends in recent memory, while RW gets bad french vanilla beaters, though. Have a heart for the underdog, wizards.
It's a bit frustrating that GB seems to get two of the most powerful legends in recent memory, while RW gets bad french vanilla beaters, though. Have a heart for the underdog, wizards.
It's a bit frustrating that GB seems to get two of the most powerful legends in recent memory, while RW gets bad french vanilla beaters, though. Have a heart for the underdog, wizards.
It's a bit frustrating that GB seems to get two of the most powerful legends in recent memory, while RW gets bad french vanilla beaters, though. Have a heart for the underdog, wizards.
It's a bit frustrating that GB seems to get two of the most powerful legends in recent memory, while RW gets bad french vanilla beaters, though. Have a heart for the underdog, wizards.
.
Public Mod Note
(LouCypher):
Troll warning -LouCypher
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
I want whatever you're smoking. The difference between those cards you mentioned and Meren is that those cards take mana to reanimate, Meren does not. You are free to do whatever else you want with your mana during your turn if you want to reanimate with Meren.
Perfect. I can finally realize my dream of a deck with a Jund female. Excuse me, a non sucky jund female.
Upon further analysis, it seems I was a bit hasty and linear with my statements. I have brought shame to Phyrexia. I must be repurposed.
Seriously, any graveyard based commander will have a plan b. Kill the graveyard hate or just don't dump all your crap in one shot. Most graveyard commanders have powerful ramp abilities as well. Granted she will have a huge target on her head but what graveyard based commander doesnt?
Also I like how this commander is at the end step. There are fewer counters to end step shennigans rather than upkeep. It also means you can sac or kill your own stuff so you can bring back a bigger creature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
I feel like some people are looking for big explosive flashy effects when they look at a reanimation effect - like 2 mana Jin-Gitaxias stuff. But yeah, this is a plug and play kind of commander that will grind people out while letting you continue to advance your game independent of the effect. There will be plenty of big plays off this card, but I'm more looking at "Sac Bloodghast to Skullclamp, draw 2 cards, play a land, sac Bloodghast to Skullclamp, draw 2 more cards, and at end of turn get him back to do it all again next turn." Slower grindier plays with low CMC creatures seem fine here. There will be big Avenger of Zendikar bombs that just keep coming back. And let's also not put too much thought into Meren in Prossch.
/Also, Geth and Chainer don't give you access to green... you know, green? The color color that pretty much shores up black's weaknesses and supports black's desire to churn through creatures at breakneck speed? Yeah.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Or if it triggered when she entered play, like Sharuum the Hegemon does. Meren is not bad, but I can see why people are underwhelmed. Between the setup for the experience counters and the fact that you need a lot to get a big baddy directly to the battlefield, it seems a little slow for a traditional reanimator. Lots of room for people to disrupt you before you go off.
I do like the idea of adding her to Savra, Queen of the Golgari, though, just for another value engine -- having other stuff to do in my Savra deck if Meren happens to eat a removal spell, which seems likely, before she gives me a free Raise Dead -- but I doubt I'd want to run her as a commander.
EDIT -- @Galspanic -- Yeah, I think I would want something a little flashier if I wanted to run a commander specifically for her reanimation effect; I'm sold on her as a card in the grindier B/G value builds (of which my Savra is definitely one), but I think there are better options for commanders in those builds? I don't know, I guess a lot depends on your playgroup.
TIL: Jarad is Irish. X)
OT: finally, a Commander in this set I'm actually sorta excited about (other than maybe Kaseto for Tiny Leaders)!
Also, this isn't a "reanimator" general. She is an attrition/control or value/tempo general.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
To be fair though, as soon as you amass enough counters (anywhere between 3-8+ depending on the deck), her reanimation becomes a *serious* threat that can cheat horrifying things like Sheoldred into play the same turn she (re)arrives.
I'm half tempted to turn my Jarad deck into a Meren deck and just tutor for Jarad once the pieces are in place...
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
[quote]There will be big Avenger of Zendikar bombs that just keep coming back. And let's also not put too much thought into Meren in Prossch. [/quote\
Honestly, while Avenger of Zendikar every turn might be nice, I really want to play Avenger in an Ezuri deck.
"oops, 7+ exp counters out of nowhere what are you gonna do"
Oh my god, please say there are 5 new Magus' in this block. Magus of the Wheel has me drooling so hard. The first cycle were so cool.
Now we are working with instant/sorceries! So stoked!!!
Pretty sure nobody is except 1 person.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
And even he finally recognized this card's quality, so it's literally 0 complaints at this point.
Whoever designed Meren deserves a cookie or something.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It's a bit frustrating that GB seems to get two of the most powerful legends in recent memory, while RW gets bad french vanilla beaters, though. Have a heart for the underdog, wizards.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.