Why is everyone hating on this demon? It is an undercosted beater that also loads up your graveyard. It is better than Golgari Grave-Troll, and that card spent years on the Modern banlist.
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GGT was on the ban list for having the text "Dredge 6". Wizards hates dredge and have sought to kill it in modern. GGT has nothing to do with this new demon.
The new demon isn't good as he only offers a 4/5 body with that draw back. The graveyard is way to easily manipulated, and you'll be taking damage from this demon far more often than you would like to. The staple size is 6/6 + an ability, with a draw back you can build around. This is a smaller body with an ability that you can't reliably work around. It's not nearly as good as Percy, Desecration Demon, or even Inverter of Truth
If you see the "put the top four cards from your library on your graveyard" as an upside this demon looks pretty good for Standard.
Siege Rhino already have a considerable body and only beats on the ground.
I guess we'll have to wait and see the rest of the set to know how good it will be to fill your own graveyard, but I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in tier 1 lists.
BR would work the best for Cursed on a thematic level, though I could see UB as well. I seriously doubt it will be BG.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Abyssal Persecutor never saw any play whatsoever, but this will be a different format so who knows. We are currently playing a really bad shock in standard, even if this guy is worse than Persecutor, the format may be weak enough for him to shine.
Edit: I decided to check just to make sure my memory wasn't bad. Yeah, exactly 3 persecutors in any decks at any large events in its entire run. It was around in the time of Caw Blade, so it makes sense.
Then it would be pretty much Tibalt' deck from SVT. BG has the best grave game in modern Magic, then again the face card doesn't always play that well with the deck's theme, look at Kiora or Vener for example.
Okay... Yeah. The Demon isn't necessarily a terrible card but it feels more like an intro pack rare than a mythic. I hope that's the only mythic of that stature in SOI or we're in for some disappointment.
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Absolutely doubt it.
If there is something going on for that demon, going with MaRo's "breaking Poison's record as the returning mechanic with the longest absence", and "advocating for the mechanic when it was created and development didn't like it"...
It's Threshold.
The demon might look underwhelming, but maybe it's not as bad as we think it is. Remember Polukranos? That thing was catgorized as "unplayable" by quite a handful of people, yet it was fantastic in mono G in the end. Demon guy already works well with origins jace, so how bad can it really be?
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
It's a 4/5 trample with a solid ETB effect and a "drawback" that's basically irrelevant. How is that not mythic-worthy?
Because that's something we could easily see at rare. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying I would have just expected something more for a mythic, or something more interesting, at the least.
Absolutely doubt it.
If there is something going on for that demon, going with MaRo's "breaking Poison's record as the returning mechanic with the longest absence", and "advocating for the mechanic when it was created and development didn't like it"...
It's Threshold.
If the demon's second ability is in fact an ability word that will show up regularly at lower rarities, then Threshold is most likely out as the "4 or more card types in graveyard" ability takes up the same kind of design space. Madness is actually looking possible, what with all the looting and rummaging effects to support it.
It's a 4/5 trample with a solid ETB effect and a "drawback" that's basically irrelevant. How is that not mythic-worthy?
The drawback is actually very, very relevant: 4 is a lot of types actually, as the easy trio "creatures-instant-land" does not make it and we won't have fetchlands in standard anymore so the trigger pretty much needs to hit a land here...
All in all the drawback at least needs a little work in deckbuilding to minimize risks and the body+trigger seem far from impressive compared to rares like the red regent...
Don't forget saccable artifacts like Hedron Archive as well as enchantments meant to go to the graveyard like Infernal Scarring and Infectious Bloodlust. Plus, if this is going to be a major mechanic in SOI, which is strongly implied by the first dash in the second paragraph, the block itself will feature plenty of support for it, perhaps including cards like Traveler's Amulet and some manner of Seal-like enchantments. And what do you know, Processors put exiled cards into graveyards; just as Processors counteracted Delve, now it seems we have a mechanic that counteracts Processors.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Absolutely doubt it.
If there is something going on for that demon, going with MaRo's "breaking Poison's record as the returning mechanic with the longest absence", and "advocating for the mechanic when it was created and development didn't like it"...
It's Threshold.
If the demon's second ability is in fact an ability word that will show up regularly at lower rarities, then Threshold is most likely out as the "4 or more card types in graveyard" ability takes up the same kind of design space. Madness is actually looking possible, what with all the looting and rummaging effects to support it.
It's a 4/5 trample with a solid ETB effect and a "drawback" that's basically irrelevant. How is that not mythic-worthy?
The drawback is actually very, very relevant: 4 is a lot of types actually, as the easy trio "creatures-instant-land" does not make it and we won't have fetchlands in standard anymore so the trigger pretty much needs to hit a land here...
All in all the drawback at least needs a little work in deckbuilding to minimize risks and the body+trigger seem far from impressive compared to rares like the red regent...
Don't forget saccable artifacts like Hedron Archive as well as enchantments meant to go to the graveyard like Infernal Scarring and Infectious Bloodlust. Plus, if this is going to be a major mechanic in SOI, which is strongly implied by the first dash in the second paragraph, the block itself will feature plenty of support for it, perhaps including cards like Traveler's Amulet and some manner of Seal-like enchantments. And what do you know, Processors put exiled cards into graveyards; just as Processors counteracted Delve, now it seems we have a mechanic that counteracts Processors.
Also, the Oaths are Legendary Enchantments, so if you play multiple copies on your deck it is easy to get one on your graveyard.
Absolutely doubt it.
If there is something going on for that demon, going with MaRo's "breaking Poison's record as the returning mechanic with the longest absence", and "advocating for the mechanic when it was created and development didn't like it"...
It's Threshold.
If the demon's second ability is in fact an ability word that will show up regularly at lower rarities, then Threshold is most likely out as the "4 or more card types in graveyard" ability takes up the same kind of design space. Madness is actually looking possible, what with all the looting and rummaging effects to support it.
Hadn't noticed the "4 types" thing was an ability word.
SOI suddenly got worse for me.
The new demon isn't good as he only offers a 4/5 body with that draw back. The graveyard is way to easily manipulated, and you'll be taking damage from this demon far more often than you would like to. The staple size is 6/6 + an ability, with a draw back you can build around. This is a smaller body with an ability that you can't reliably work around. It's not nearly as good as Percy, Desecration Demon, or even Inverter of Truth
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My Decks:
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EDH:GRWHazezon TamarGRW, RKazuul, Tyrant of the CliffsR, BMikaeus, the UnhallowedB, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GRXenagos, God of RevelsGR, BGPharika, God of AfflictionBG
Standard:BMono Black Control(devotion)B- retired
Casual:UWHeroicUW, UGWall tribalUG, BPhylactery LichB
Modern:UBAbyssal PersecutorUB, WKnight TribalW
I don't want to question your financial situation, but is $3 super expensive?
Siege Rhino already have a considerable body and only beats on the ground.
I guess we'll have to wait and see the rest of the set to know how good it will be to fill your own graveyard, but I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in tier 1 lists.
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
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I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Edit: I decided to check just to make sure my memory wasn't bad. Yeah, exactly 3 persecutors in any decks at any large events in its entire run. It was around in the time of Caw Blade, so it makes sense.
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
Then it would be pretty much Tibalt' deck from SVT.
BG has the best grave game in modern Magic, then again the face card doesn't always play that well with the deck's theme, look at Kiora or Vener for example.
When are we getting the decklists anyway?
-Chandra Nalaar
If there is something going on for that demon, going with MaRo's "breaking Poison's record as the returning mechanic with the longest absence", and "advocating for the mechanic when it was created and development didn't like it"...
It's Threshold.
Because that's something we could easily see at rare. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying I would have just expected something more for a mythic, or something more interesting, at the least.
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If the demon's second ability is in fact an ability word that will show up regularly at lower rarities, then Threshold is most likely out as the "4 or more card types in graveyard" ability takes up the same kind of design space. Madness is actually looking possible, what with all the looting and rummaging effects to support it.
Don't forget saccable artifacts like Hedron Archive as well as enchantments meant to go to the graveyard like Infernal Scarring and Infectious Bloodlust. Plus, if this is going to be a major mechanic in SOI, which is strongly implied by the first dash in the second paragraph, the block itself will feature plenty of support for it, perhaps including cards like Traveler's Amulet and some manner of Seal-like enchantments. And what do you know, Processors put exiled cards into graveyards; just as Processors counteracted Delve, now it seems we have a mechanic that counteracts Processors.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Also, the Oaths are Legendary Enchantments, so if you play multiple copies on your deck it is easy to get one on your graveyard.
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
Hadn't noticed the "4 types" thing was an ability word.
SOI suddenly got worse for me.
Fixed Goyf - BG
Creature - Something
If you have 4 or more card types in your graveyard, Fixed Goyf gets +4/+4.
0/1