I like return sets. We have so many settings. Rather than tax creativity by continuing to produce more, lets use the ones we have to develop and continue the many incomplete stories running around. It makes the game feel consistent and interesting. Getting new planes over and over can be boring too.
Another thing they will probably do is merge Innistrad with Avacyn Restored, just like they merged Zendikar with Rise of the Eldrazi. BFZ was extremely disappointing partially because I liked original Zendikar so much but didn't like Rise.
Likewise, I am not a fan of Avacyn Restored as much as Innistrad. Unfortunately for me, things I didn't enjoy - such as Miracles - were very popular in general. I expect new Innistrad to be tainted by the worst aspects of Avacyn, which is a total bummer.
It's funny how MaRo keeps explaining on his blog that for the last 6 years they've been retuning to blocks at about a 50% ratio this is just the first time it hits back to back, Chances are the next two blocks will be new planes
Sorry, but it just still seems waaaaaay too soon to go back to Innistrad. Why not pull up some long-forgotten plane that hasn't been seen since, I dunno, the early 2000's or even the 90's? A plane the vast majority of the current playerbase will have never known about or interacted with? Don't get me wrong, Innistrad was flavorful and fun (I loved the G/W Human thing, all those counters and anthems, so much fun), but it just seems...abrupt. Since Sorin has to find Nahiri, this time he's going to have to choose between saving the Multiverse and saving Innistrad, and I'm pretty sure that this time he might just give up on Innistrad as a bad job because it's constantly under assault from one thing or another.
What plane? Mirrodin? Revisited. Kamigawa? Problematic. Ice Age Dominaria? Revisited. The rest of Dominaria? Thoroughly revisited. Phyrexia? Requires major storyline commitment to revisit, and I'm guessing they don't want to go straight from Eldrazi to Phyrexians. Rabiah, Ulgothra, Mercadia? ... would anyone be excited about those?
Sorry, but it just still seems waaaaaay too soon to go back to Innistrad. Why not pull up some long-forgotten plane that hasn't been seen since, I dunno, the early 2000's or even the 90's? A plane the vast majority of the current playerbase will have never known about or interacted with? Don't get me wrong, Innistrad was flavorful and fun (I loved the G/W Human thing, all those counters and anthems, so much fun), but it just seems...abrupt. Since Sorin has to find Nahiri, this time he's going to have to choose between saving the Multiverse and saving Innistrad, and I'm pretty sure that this time he might just give up on Innistrad as a bad job because it's constantly under assault from one thing or another.
What plane? Mirrodin? Revisited. Kamigawa? Problematic. Ice Age Dominaria? Revisited. The rest of Dominaria? Thoroughly revisited. Phyrexia? Requires major storyline commitment to revisit, and I'm guessing they don't want to go straight from Eldrazi to Phyrexians. Rabiah, Ulgothra, Mercadia? ... would anyone be excited about those?
I'm guessing at least one of the next two planes will be Kaladesh or Regatha, (Vryn's a possibility but considering Jace is the face of SOI i don't think we'll go to his home plane just yet)
I feel like BFZ is Gideon and Nissa SOI is Jace and Liliana (possibly) so Lock should be Chandra
I think if BFZ reception was more positive, Shadows over Innistrad would be a lot more hyped. Let's take a look back at some "Return blocks" (MEGA LONG RANT INCOMING!)
Return to Ravinca Block: Very interesting cards and the return of new art Shocklands. Almost all the legendaries [minus Emara] have a home somewhere in EDH. Even Obzedat saw plenty of play in Standard. I do agree that Dragon's Maze was quite the dud, there were some decent cards across the sets. We even got some Modern Playable stuff like Abrupt Decay and Counterflux. I do wish Cipher and Detain were a bit stronger though. Overload, Extort, Bloodrush, Pouplate and Evolve were pretty decent mechanics which saw Standard play in their own right.
Scars of Mirrodin: This one is perhaps the one that is either swing or miss when it comes to the first two sets for a lot of people. But you gotta admit that New Phyrexia opened up a entire can of worms. I think people really wanted "Affinity" back but instead we got Metalcraft. Granted Affinity is broken as all hell, I don't think bringing it back would have been the smart thing to do. When Affinity was around, it did kill the game a bit since it was "Play Affinity or play a deck that can beat it." Metalcraft was an ok mechanic but it was decent in some cards like Etched Champion, Dispatch, Stoic Rebuttal, Mox Opal. Then we go to Infect... which is a love/hate mechanic depending on who is getting smacked. It's a Modern and Legacy viable deck. But the thing that I loved was Phyrexian mana. That was a freaking interesting as hell mechanic! Everyone can get a removal spell Dismember or a Shock Guttershot! Also not the mention the Praetors were really cool.
Battle for Zendikar: Wha... what happened?
Allies: Almost all the BFZ allies are terrible creatures if you don't have another ally to get "Rally Effect." At least some allies in OG Zendikar could stand on their own like Kazandu Blademaster, Hada Freeblade, Talus Paladin or had neat effects like Agadeem Occultist, Turntimber Ranger, TukTuk Scrapper. These BFZ allies are pretty much a spell effect with a body. That you can sometimes trigger if you have another ally. I mean hell look at the ally legendary creatures... they don't CARE if you have allies! Zada would have been passable if she was in Theros rotation, Noyan Dar doesn't want more allies but instant/sorceries and Drana just does her own thing by smacking u and pumping your team, don't matter if you have an ally or not.
Eldrazi: Jeeze what a mess. "Processing" is a pain to get and the effect you get for doing so is rather lame. It also makes your other processors weak again because you need to exile stuff AGAIN in order to get the benefit. At the very least, let me process my own exiled stuff! When they pumped up the 0/1s into 1/1s, anything that could make an Eldrazi Scion became overcosted. Making some Eldrazi only be able to activate only using Scions as opposed to any creatures like Dronwer of Hope or Deathless Behemoth is also pretty flipping lame considering anything that makes an Eldrazi Scion is overcosted trash except for a few like Catacomb Shifter, Brood Monitor and Blisterpod. Which brings my next point... why the HELL is there so many colored eldrazi? And mutli-color to boot? Don't give me that "Devoid" crap. You still need the correct mana symbols to cast it. I would have loved if they explored more pure colorless Eldrazi. It is kinda sad that most Eldrazi (even the rares) can't even compete with Bane of Bala Ged which mimics Annihilator.
Converge: I was pretty much right on this. Given that Standard has near flawless mana, the only obvious Converge cards was Bring to Light aka Siege Rhino Eletric Boogaloo, Radiant Flames (only because there will always be a need to deal 3 damage to everything for 3 mana). You can say Woodland Wanderer can have potential but with perfect mana to be able to cast whatever the freaking hell you want... why would u settle for second rate stuff? Also we can't forget Prism Array. "BUT TANION WE NEED BAD RARES BECAUSE EVERYTHING CAN'T BE GOOD!" Fine I will sorta concede to that if a rare is bad, I would hope it would be ok in Limited at least. But this thing? RIP Tree... your death has been in vain printing this crap that will end up in my trash bin.
------
TLDR: So with BFZ leaving an EXTREMELY bad taste, I think people have a valid reason to be skeptical about another Return block so soon. Given that Zendikar was quite popular and then it got completely CRAPPED on... doing it to Innistrad (which is another loved set for the most part) causes much worry from old players. Newer players will just gobble anything up (which I think is what Wizards has been targeting lately).
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Just because BFZ was a return block and it sucked, it doesn't mean SOI will also suck.
Theros for example, was a brand new block and for many people it sucked. So really, return blocks are no different than new blocks.
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Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
Yes we are going to one of the most popular settings according to Wizards, yes it is much faster than other sets, yes BFZ was a bit of a letdown, but come on. The fact remains that we still have Oath to come out before we even start hearing about SoI. I am honestly hugely excited because I missed out on the first Innistrad. I just hope they still keep the great tribal theme that Innistrad had.
What is up, is that a lot of players missed out on Innistrad, RtR got a big uptick in the playerbase; with all the vets talking about nostalgia and the new players wanting a piece of that. What we got was okay, but then BfZ comes, another very nostalgic set, and it is floundering the worst I have seen from a return set. I want you to enjoy original Innistrad level and themed cards, because I enjoyed them, but I will express my complaints; due to how Wizards treated BfZ. I don't want you to be disappointing and think original Innistrad wasn't that great, because all you have to base it on is the "return" set and I don't want one of my favorite sets trampled on by cheap Wizards marketing schemes and lazy design.
I want to return to Innistrad, I just don't know if this is the correct design environment for it.
Ah, I see. So there are fears that Innistrad may be poorly liked and understood by players who've never been there and our potential negative reaction to a potentially poorly created design may hurt Innistrad's prospect's overall?
If so I think I can better understand.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Though Jace has been in the lore a lot, he isn't actually in BfZ yet... Like no strictly Jace card. If they leave him out of Oath, then it MIGHT be okay...
According to MaRo, EVERY set is the best-selling set of MTG history. Theros apparently sold loads, even though we know the only reason for this was lands + Thoughtseize.
Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
BFZ has been spectacular, and Innistrad's flavor is the best of any Magic plane thus far. I would be happy if every block from now on was set there, and this announcement is the most excited I've been for MTG in around 3.5 years.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
BFZ has been spectacular, and Innistrad's flavor is the best of any Magic plane thus far. I would be happy if every block from now on was set there, and this announcement is the most excited I've been for MTG in around 3.5 years.
Well, at least someone is getting something out of BFZ. Just wish MTG would remember constructed and all the fun times they had together and how many of use want them to fix up whatever problem they have against one another.
enemy checklands have a good chance of a reprint do you think for this set? Or do you think we will get a different land cycle?
could be! and they also work great with battle-lands!
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Hello,
just to say that i also got something out of BFZ, i love this format in limited , seriously.
Good week end and good FNM
Then you probably have not played a lot of limited in other formats.
It is the worst limited I have seen since BNG-THS-THS. Yes, DTK-DTK-FRF, M15-M15-M15 and JOU-BNG-THS were not as bad.
I absolutely love this format, the fact synergy is such a thing is so fun.
I am on the side of people who think we should wait a little more before going back to Innistrad. I say that not only because I think there are older planes that we could revisit that are being left behind (Kamigawa, Lorwyn), but because a return is just as great as your nostalgia for the plane. I loved Innistrad, it was the reason I came seriously back to magic after a break of some years, but I don't think the sentiment of nostalgia has built up enough for me to start thinking "oh boy, we should see what is up on Innistrad". It certainly is built up for Lorwyn, but Innistrad? Too soon.
I do agree that this sentiment is relative and may vary. About Innistrad and the Eldrazi: I think it is sooooo unlikely that they will actually put both of them together, mtg rarely explores the same villain for two blocks in a row, they like to change. That said, I do think Innistrad has the proper setting for a good cosmic horror meets gothic horror story (check my short story in my signature to know what I'm talking about), so I wouldn't be mad if that happened. I would be mad if they treated the eldrazi in Innistrad like they are treating in Zendikar: some sort of alien invasion led by Godzilla Ulamog.
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.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
Unless we are doing some unnecessary time traveling, I don't think this will be an innistrad sequel, but a prequel instead. If its based on lili searching for one of her demons, and following the origins plot, then this incarnation of innistrad should be before everything that happened in the last innistrad block. At least i hope because it sounds a lot more interesting to me than "Avacyn makes good colors too powerful, and bad colors need to take their revenge".
Unless we are doing some unnecessary time traveling, I don't think this will be an innistrad sequel, but a prequel instead. If its based on lili searching for one of her demons, and following the origins plot, then this incarnation of innistrad should be before everything that happened in the last innistrad block. At least i hope because it sounds a lot more interesting to me than "Avacyn makes good colors too powerful, and bad colors need to take their revenge".
Jace is on the cover art for SoI and I don't think he has ever actually been there before (based on an UR from a few weeks ago when Liliana and Gideon show up on Ravnica looking for Jace).
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EDH Decks
RFeldon of the Third PathR UBWrexial, the Risen DeepUB BGWDoran, the Siege TowerBGW (2/W)(2/U)(2/B)(2/R)(2/G)Reaper King(2/W)(2/U)(2/B)(2/R)(2/G)
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EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
Who is really Nicol Bolas in disguise!
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Likewise, I am not a fan of Avacyn Restored as much as Innistrad. Unfortunately for me, things I didn't enjoy - such as Miracles - were very popular in general. I expect new Innistrad to be tainted by the worst aspects of Avacyn, which is a total bummer.
I'm guessing at least one of the next two planes will be Kaladesh or Regatha, (Vryn's a possibility but considering Jace is the face of SOI i don't think we'll go to his home plane just yet)
I feel like BFZ is Gideon and Nissa SOI is Jace and Liliana (possibly) so Lock should be Chandra
Return to Ravinca Block: Very interesting cards and the return of new art Shocklands. Almost all the legendaries [minus Emara] have a home somewhere in EDH. Even Obzedat saw plenty of play in Standard. I do agree that Dragon's Maze was quite the dud, there were some decent cards across the sets. We even got some Modern Playable stuff like Abrupt Decay and Counterflux. I do wish Cipher and Detain were a bit stronger though. Overload, Extort, Bloodrush, Pouplate and Evolve were pretty decent mechanics which saw Standard play in their own right.
Scars of Mirrodin: This one is perhaps the one that is either swing or miss when it comes to the first two sets for a lot of people. But you gotta admit that New Phyrexia opened up a entire can of worms. I think people really wanted "Affinity" back but instead we got Metalcraft. Granted Affinity is broken as all hell, I don't think bringing it back would have been the smart thing to do. When Affinity was around, it did kill the game a bit since it was "Play Affinity or play a deck that can beat it." Metalcraft was an ok mechanic but it was decent in some cards like Etched Champion, Dispatch, Stoic Rebuttal, Mox Opal. Then we go to Infect... which is a love/hate mechanic depending on who is getting smacked. It's a Modern and Legacy viable deck. But the thing that I loved was Phyrexian mana. That was a freaking interesting as hell mechanic! Everyone can get a removal spell Dismember or a Shock Guttershot! Also not the mention the Praetors were really cool.
Battle for Zendikar: Wha... what happened?
Allies: Almost all the BFZ allies are terrible creatures if you don't have another ally to get "Rally Effect." At least some allies in OG Zendikar could stand on their own like Kazandu Blademaster, Hada Freeblade, Talus Paladin or had neat effects like Agadeem Occultist, Turntimber Ranger, TukTuk Scrapper. These BFZ allies are pretty much a spell effect with a body. That you can sometimes trigger if you have another ally. I mean hell look at the ally legendary creatures... they don't CARE if you have allies! Zada would have been passable if she was in Theros rotation, Noyan Dar doesn't want more allies but instant/sorceries and Drana just does her own thing by smacking u and pumping your team, don't matter if you have an ally or not.
Eldrazi: Jeeze what a mess. "Processing" is a pain to get and the effect you get for doing so is rather lame. It also makes your other processors weak again because you need to exile stuff AGAIN in order to get the benefit. At the very least, let me process my own exiled stuff! When they pumped up the 0/1s into 1/1s, anything that could make an Eldrazi Scion became overcosted. Making some Eldrazi only be able to activate only using Scions as opposed to any creatures like Dronwer of Hope or Deathless Behemoth is also pretty flipping lame considering anything that makes an Eldrazi Scion is overcosted trash except for a few like Catacomb Shifter, Brood Monitor and Blisterpod. Which brings my next point... why the HELL is there so many colored eldrazi? And mutli-color to boot? Don't give me that "Devoid" crap. You still need the correct mana symbols to cast it. I would have loved if they explored more pure colorless Eldrazi. It is kinda sad that most Eldrazi (even the rares) can't even compete with Bane of Bala Ged which mimics Annihilator.
Converge: I was pretty much right on this. Given that Standard has near flawless mana, the only obvious Converge cards was Bring to Light aka Siege Rhino Eletric Boogaloo, Radiant Flames (only because there will always be a need to deal 3 damage to everything for 3 mana). You can say Woodland Wanderer can have potential but with perfect mana to be able to cast whatever the freaking hell you want... why would u settle for second rate stuff? Also we can't forget Prism Array. "BUT TANION WE NEED BAD RARES BECAUSE EVERYTHING CAN'T BE GOOD!" Fine I will sorta concede to that if a rare is bad, I would hope it would be ok in Limited at least. But this thing? RIP Tree... your death has been in vain printing this crap that will end up in my trash bin.
------
TLDR: So with BFZ leaving an EXTREMELY bad taste, I think people have a valid reason to be skeptical about another Return block so soon. Given that Zendikar was quite popular and then it got completely CRAPPED on... doing it to Innistrad (which is another loved set for the most part) causes much worry from old players. Newer players will just gobble anything up (which I think is what Wizards has been targeting lately).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Gap between Ravnica city of Guilds and Return to Ravnica, 7 years.
Gap between Zendikar and Battle for Zendikar, 6 years.
Gap between Innistrad and Shadows over Innistrad, 3 and a half years.
I agree that it is too soon. I wouldn't think a return to Innistrad would be too soon if the set was released in, I don't know, April 2017?
With the 2 block per year model, we will probably return to a lot of planes sooner than you think.
Theros for example, was a brand new block and for many people it sucked. So really, return blocks are no different than new blocks.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
Ah, I see. So there are fears that Innistrad may be poorly liked and understood by players who've never been there and our potential negative reaction to a potentially poorly created design may hurt Innistrad's prospect's overall?
If so I think I can better understand.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Oh, please, please, please!
This is pretty much my dream card.
Oh please!!!!
False.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Those angels better use Medic Alert then.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
Well, at least someone is getting something out of BFZ. Just wish MTG would remember constructed and all the fun times they had together and how many of use want them to fix up whatever problem they have against one another.
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
I absolutely love this format, the fact synergy is such a thing is so fun.
I do agree that this sentiment is relative and may vary. About Innistrad and the Eldrazi: I think it is sooooo unlikely that they will actually put both of them together, mtg rarely explores the same villain for two blocks in a row, they like to change. That said, I do think Innistrad has the proper setting for a good cosmic horror meets gothic horror story (check my short story in my signature to know what I'm talking about), so I wouldn't be mad if that happened. I would be mad if they treated the eldrazi in Innistrad like they are treating in Zendikar: some sort of alien invasion led by
GodzillaUlamog.Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Jace is on the cover art for SoI and I don't think he has ever actually been there before (based on an UR from a few weeks ago when Liliana and Gideon show up on Ravnica looking for Jace).
RFeldon of the Third PathR
UBWrexial, the Risen DeepUB
BGWDoran, the Siege TowerBGW
(2/W)(2/U)(2/B)(2/R)(2/G)Reaper King(2/W)(2/U)(2/B)(2/R)(2/G)