I wonder if we'll see a sword in her deck or maybe the Jitte, I'm actually leaning toward the jitte because the commander products are a good place where WOTC can reprint cards banned in Modern. I wonder if we'll see a reprint of Stoneforge Mystic as well?
I'm going to just breakdown why I think this is a pretty massive disappointment:
It's Boring.
This card is just a french vanilla creature. Hussar Patrol is about as interesting, Drogskol Reaver far more interesting. From here on out, I will refer to this card as Hur Dur, the Combat Legendary. Hur Dur is IMHO just a reprint of [every other Boros legendary] and provides absolutely nothing to the game outside the combat step. I'm not wholly against combat commanders, but this is about as lazy as you can get for one. Skullbriar did combat in a way that was innovative and gamechanging. Edric did as well. So did Doran. This does not.
It's Weak.
"But I can equip him and swing for a ton!" Doesn't matter, this card is a very low power level commander. Hur Dur lacks in several key ways that prevent her from being even a decent voltron commander. First, she is slow. By herself he needs 5 turns to kill (counting the turn she comes down). To use her ability you need to spend 9+ mana. She doesn't have haste. That all combines for a very slow commander.
Second, she lacks both evasive and protection. Good voltron commanders have at least one of these, if not both. Being weak to 1/1 Saprolings AND Doom Blade is pretty bad for a card that is already pretty slow.
It's Contradictory.
Hur Dur wants 5+ cost creatures in the color combination with the worst mana ramp, but synergizes normally only with pump spells and voltron equipments and auras. That is a major deckbuilding contradiction. She encourages playing the "experience counters matter" deck, but building around that leaves little room for actually winning with her. This isn't an interesting problem, it is simply a design accident. Experience counters should reward synergistic deckbuilding and doing what you already want to do, not push you in several conflicting directions.
It's Bad for Boros.
Simply put, Boros is the weakest AND most limited color combination in EDH. Every single Boros general is weak and they are all different flavors of Hur Dur. Boros decks have the weakest mana ramp of any strategy (since they can't use mono-color doublers as well), the weakest card draw, and aren't particularly good at removing permanents. Every single Boros deck is fundamentally similar: it is either a weak Angels/Dragons Hur Dur deck or an annoying Armaggedon/Apocalypse land destruction deck. This was a card that could have attempted to expand on what Boros can do, instead it only played homage to the problems of the color combination.
Every single Boros general is weak and they are all different flavors of Hur Dur. Boros decks have the weakest mana ramp of any strategy (since they can't use mono-color doublers as well), the weakest card draw, and aren't particularly good at removing permanents.
I agree with you in most things, but Red/White is probably one of the most efficient combinations to remove permanents. White alone is the best color for removal in general, and red just adds more to that reinforcing the capability to destroy artifacts and kill creatures. The only color combinations that I would say that are better at removing permanents than white/red are green/white and black/white.
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Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
If nothing else, I appreciate it that now players can get things other than poison counters and emblems. Of course, the number of such things may need to be limited, but hey....
Commander is supposed to be one of the best formats for casual and kitchen table magic right? So whats wrong with her? I mean isn't it cool that we got a new Heroine for giant Tribal? Also, I would be really expect the the secondary legendaries to be interesting even if she is considered by some to be boring. Have faith! I totally Expect Feather!
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
I have a question for those who think Kalemne sucks. What would your ideal Boros commander be? Please keep in mind the colour pie when answering this question.
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Modern:UB Taking Turns Modern:URW Madcap Experiment Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
I'm still waiting to see these "big" boobs everyone is talking about
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Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
I have a question for those who think Kalemne sucks. What would your ideal Boros commander be? Please keep in mind the colour pie when answering this question.
Tamanoa Minus Green/Soulfire Minus Blue 2WR
Legendary Creature - Whatever
Protection from Red
Instant and sorcery spells you control have lifelink. "Play me with Earthquakes."
2/4
Nerfed Puresteel 2WR
Legendary Creature - Human Knight
First Strike
Whenever an Equipment enters the battlefield under your control, you may draw a card.
3/3
Blaze Commander 3WR
Legendary Creature - Minotaur Soldier
Whenever an instant or sorcery spell you control deals damage, put two 1/1 red and white Soldier creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
5/3
If you evoked Ingot Chewer for 1 while Kalemne was out you would get an xp counter right? What about other alternate ways to cast like Madness, Suspend or Dash? Morph?
this is... extremely boring. it doesn't really inspire me to make a r/w deck thats based around creatures with a high casting cost, mostly because r/w kind of sucks major ass for that. this guy feels like he'd be better as one of the 99, not the focus of a deck.
Its early days here, but I am already wondering how the experience counter thing works,
Hopefully it just triggers when the creature is on the battlefield, and not from the command zone.
It'd specifically have to say "from the command zone."
Dang. It would have been nice if she got bigger in the command zone then drop her when its safe with a haste enabler to do "tons of damage". But I guess she needs to be on the field to... "get experience." *drum snare*
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
I have a question for those who think Kalemne sucks. What would your ideal Boros commander be? Please keep in mind the colour pie when answering this question.
Red and white can manipulate combat in ways no other color or color combination can. I don't mean attacking with more or larger creatures than your opponents (though it is very good at going wide), I mean things like Basandra, Boros Battleshaper, the old-school en-Kor creatures from tempest block (all could spread damage among your creatures, something still in white and doesn't fit in any other color), or spreading damage among your opponent's creatures. Or controlling which creatures can attack or block and how. Also, equipment and artifact love.
Tons of things, actually. This is just a beater, one that oddly cares about something not in red/white's share of the color pie - casting large dudes. That's green. So not only is this not a particularly interesting or much-needed commander for boros (since boros already has dumb beater legends), but it isn't even boros. Unless you think double strike and vigilance are the card's defining characteristics, which are boros, I'll give you that. But the marquee ability just doesn't make sense in this color combination. It only maybe makes sense as "giant tribal" but I think that's ridiculous. Giants are probably the least defined tribe, their only characteristic is they are large. Nothing even particularly red or white about that (quite the opposite actually). This commander product seems like an odd choice to go all in on giant tribal, but maybe that's what they're doing with this card.
Can you please tell me how she dies to a 1/1 saproling when she is a 3/3 with double strike? Also,you do realize most of your complaints can also be applied to Radiq of the Many except he has the advantage of having access to blue.
I'm going to just breakdown why I think this is a pretty massive disappointment:
It's Boring.
This card is just a french vanilla creature. Hussar Patrol is about as interesting, Drogskol Reaver far more interesting. From here on out, I will refer to this card as Hur Dur, the Combat Legendary. Hur Dur is IMHO just a reprint of [every other Boros legendary] and provides absolutely nothing to the game outside the combat step. I'm not wholly against combat commanders, but this is about as lazy as you can get for one. Skullbriar did combat in a way that was innovative and gamechanging. Edric did as well. So did Doran. This does not.
It's Weak.
"But I can equip him and swing for a ton!" Doesn't matter, this card is a very low power level commander. Hur Dur lacks in several key ways that prevent her from being even a decent voltron commander. First, she is slow. By herself he needs 5 turns to kill (counting the turn she comes down). To use her ability you need to spend 9+ mana. She doesn't have haste. That all combines for a very slow commander.
Second, she lacks both evasive and protection. Good voltron commanders have at least one of these, if not both. Being weak to 1/1 Saprolings AND Doom Blade is pretty bad for a card that is already pretty slow.
It's Contradictory.
Hur Dur wants 5+ cost creatures in the color combination with the worst mana ramp, but synergizes normally only with pump spells and voltron equipments and auras. That is a major deckbuilding contradiction. She encourages playing the "experience counters matter" deck, but building around that leaves little room for actually winning with her. This isn't an interesting problem, it is simply a design accident. Experience counters should reward synergistic deckbuilding and doing what you already want to do, not push you in several conflicting directions.
It's Bad for Boros.
Simply put, Boros is the weakest AND most limited color combination in EDH. Every single Boros general is weak and they are all different flavors of Hur Dur. Boros decks have the weakest mana ramp of any strategy (since they can't use mono-color doublers as well), the weakest card draw, and aren't particularly good at removing permanents. Every single Boros deck is fundamentally similar: it is either a weak Angels/Dragons Hur Dur deck or an annoying Armaggedon/Apocalypse land destruction deck. This was a card that could have attempted to expand on what Boros can do, instead it only played homage to the problems of the color combination.
This card is just really, really boring. A part of being on the cover of the commander box is being as flashy and cool as possible. This card does not scream flashy nor cool. I think its main issue isn't the card itself, but the generals that preceded it in the 2013 commander expansion, which are very flashy cards that are used frequently by many newcomers due to their coolness. Kalemne doesn't have that epic factor to it like Prosh or Oloro had, which will lead to less people using it and eventually forgetting it.
I have a question for those who think Kalemne sucks. What would your ideal Boros commander be? Please keep in mind the colour pie when answering this question.
Tamanoa Minus Green/Soulfire Minus Blue 2WR
Legendary Creature - Whatever
Protection from Red
Instant and sorcery spells you control have lifelink. "Play me with Earthquakes."
2/4
Nerfed Puresteel 2WR
Legendary Creature - Human Knight
First Strike
Whenever an Equipment enters the battlefield under your control, you may draw a card.
3/3
Blaze Commander 3WR
Legendary Creature - Minotaur Soldier
Whenever an instant or sorcery spell you control deals damage, put two 1/1 red and white Soldier creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
5/3
All of those are dull for the same reason that it's being argued that the new giantess is being called boring. All of those are just rehashes of something that already is around.
How about some kind of tempo commander. What archetypes does boros already have? For the most part, boros is played as either a voltron or a token hoard. Aurelia and gisela are both voltron decks, where iroas and tajic like to make an ocean of tokens.
This commander is noticeably different. She is the only commander that I can think of in the colors that likes to play mid range fatties over other options. She herself benefits from it, but the rest of the deck is tempo based. The issue with boros in general is people look at it in a very narrow view. That being said I would have liked to have seen a burn commander come out. Also, for people who complain about mana issues in boros, it's honestly not that bad. gilded lotus, chromatic lantern, commander sphere, sol ring, coalition relic, boros charm. Done. You want more? Arid mesa, or for budget terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds, with sun titan. Throw in expedition map, and slot in a thawing glaciers. Don't have a land this turn? Drop glaciers. Play a land and glaciers is out? Activate it if you can spare the one mana. Why not? It thins your deck out and it provides solid tempo. I'm sure Emeria Shephard would love herself some glaciers. You want some extra fun? Vesuva, and thespian stage to chain glaciers back to back. You really want to get into it? Scrying sheets and go all snow basics. If you have the budget throw in a sensei's to sculpt for sheets. Still want more? Myriad landscape, Knight of the white orchid is a thing. Land tax for big spenders. And then there's braid of fire, and if you go slightlt tribal (which happens accidenté in red/white a lot because soldier) there's mana echoes. You want mana ramp? Stop complaining and look at your options available to you, they're there. Do they take up a chunk of your deck? Yes, yes they do. I realize that green ramp is different because it's pulling the cards out of your deck and into play (usually), which makes it so that you're less likely to draw lands when you don't want to draw a land. I get it. But this new commander is pretty obviously (to me at least) mid range tempo. Throw in a token generator package, pack in a skull clamp and a goblin bombardment. Have enough cards with 2 or less P/T? Put in a mentor of the meek. You have the beginning of card draw. Your commander isn't perfect, and it's not supposed to be. What do you want? A hasted 3/3 doubles striker with menace for 4 mana that draws you a card whenever it deals combat damage and then adds mana to your mana pool in any combination of colors during your second main phase equal to the cards in your hand, that gives you experience counters every time you cast something with cmc 4+ (instead of 5 because that's "too much mana") and gets +1/+1 for every experience counter you have?
Why look at any commander specifically on their own. Uril kills with the same clock of 5 turns without help, and he's chump blockable, he's much more reasonably kill able in the 5 toughness range since he doesn't have double strike, and he leaves you open when he swings. Hexproof isn't even as relevant anymore since arcane lighthouse is a card, and should be in almost every single deck.
Rafiq has most of the same problems as the others, he's just a turn quicker on the kill. But being more mana hungry in terms of cost, he's harder to ramp out as quickly as kalemne is.
Geist is another red zone commander, and on his own without any help you're on a 7 turn clock.
Tajic on his own is 11 turns.
Zur, on his own, 11 turns. Without any help from anywhere.
So what's the point of evaluating a card on its own. There isn't one, evaluate her in the proper environment that she would probably be played in.
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Wade into Battle. It's usually how I treat combat.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Did you look at the picture? Like, actually look at it?
She has boobs! Big ones too. If that doesn't scream female, then I don't know what does.
I wonder if we'll see a sword in her deck or maybe the Jitte, I'm actually leaning toward the jitte because the commander products are a good place where WOTC can reprint cards banned in Modern. I wonder if we'll see a reprint of Stoneforge Mystic as well?
It's Boring.
This card is just a french vanilla creature. Hussar Patrol is about as interesting, Drogskol Reaver far more interesting. From here on out, I will refer to this card as Hur Dur, the Combat Legendary. Hur Dur is IMHO just a reprint of [every other Boros legendary] and provides absolutely nothing to the game outside the combat step. I'm not wholly against combat commanders, but this is about as lazy as you can get for one. Skullbriar did combat in a way that was innovative and gamechanging. Edric did as well. So did Doran. This does not.
It's Weak.
"But I can equip him and swing for a ton!" Doesn't matter, this card is a very low power level commander. Hur Dur lacks in several key ways that prevent her from being even a decent voltron commander. First, she is slow. By herself he needs 5 turns to kill (counting the turn she comes down). To use her ability you need to spend 9+ mana. She doesn't have haste. That all combines for a very slow commander.
Second, she lacks both evasive and protection. Good voltron commanders have at least one of these, if not both. Being weak to 1/1 Saprolings AND Doom Blade is pretty bad for a card that is already pretty slow.
It's Contradictory.
Hur Dur wants 5+ cost creatures in the color combination with the worst mana ramp, but synergizes normally only with pump spells and voltron equipments and auras. That is a major deckbuilding contradiction. She encourages playing the "experience counters matter" deck, but building around that leaves little room for actually winning with her. This isn't an interesting problem, it is simply a design accident. Experience counters should reward synergistic deckbuilding and doing what you already want to do, not push you in several conflicting directions.
It's Bad for Boros.
Simply put, Boros is the weakest AND most limited color combination in EDH. Every single Boros general is weak and they are all different flavors of Hur Dur. Boros decks have the weakest mana ramp of any strategy (since they can't use mono-color doublers as well), the weakest card draw, and aren't particularly good at removing permanents. Every single Boros deck is fundamentally similar: it is either a weak Angels/Dragons Hur Dur deck or an annoying Armaggedon/Apocalypse land destruction deck. This was a card that could have attempted to expand on what Boros can do, instead it only played homage to the problems of the color combination.
I agree with you in most things, but Red/White is probably one of the most efficient combinations to remove permanents. White alone is the best color for removal in general, and red just adds more to that reinforcing the capability to destroy artifacts and kill creatures. The only color combinations that I would say that are better at removing permanents than white/red are green/white and black/white.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Tamanoa Minus Green/Soulfire Minus Blue 2WR
Legendary Creature - Whatever
Protection from Red
Instant and sorcery spells you control have lifelink.
"Play me with Earthquakes."
2/4
Nerfed Puresteel 2WR
Legendary Creature - Human Knight
First Strike
Whenever an Equipment enters the battlefield under your control, you may draw a card.
3/3
Blaze Commander 3WR
Legendary Creature - Minotaur Soldier
Whenever an instant or sorcery spell you control deals damage, put two 1/1 red and white Soldier creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
5/3
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
JUST STOP. Seriously.
GGo Elf YourselfG
WThat Cat Has A Knife!W
BUGWhip your assBUG
It'd specifically have to say "from the command zone."
GGo Elf YourselfG
WThat Cat Has A Knife!W
BUGWhip your assBUG
Dang. It would have been nice if she got bigger in the command zone then drop her when its safe with a haste enabler to do "tons of damage". But I guess she needs to be on the field to... "get experience." *drum snare*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Red and white can manipulate combat in ways no other color or color combination can. I don't mean attacking with more or larger creatures than your opponents (though it is very good at going wide), I mean things like Basandra, Boros Battleshaper, the old-school en-Kor creatures from tempest block (all could spread damage among your creatures, something still in white and doesn't fit in any other color), or spreading damage among your opponent's creatures. Or controlling which creatures can attack or block and how. Also, equipment and artifact love.
Tons of things, actually. This is just a beater, one that oddly cares about something not in red/white's share of the color pie - casting large dudes. That's green. So not only is this not a particularly interesting or much-needed commander for boros (since boros already has dumb beater legends), but it isn't even boros. Unless you think double strike and vigilance are the card's defining characteristics, which are boros, I'll give you that. But the marquee ability just doesn't make sense in this color combination. It only maybe makes sense as "giant tribal" but I think that's ridiculous. Giants are probably the least defined tribe, their only characteristic is they are large. Nothing even particularly red or white about that (quite the opposite actually). This commander product seems like an odd choice to go all in on giant tribal, but maybe that's what they're doing with this card.
Can you please tell me how she dies to a 1/1 saproling when she is a 3/3 with double strike? Also,you do realize most of your complaints can also be applied to Radiq of the Many except he has the advantage of having access to blue.
Reanimate sucks cause it needs cards like Entomb to work.
All of those are dull for the same reason that it's being argued that the new giantess is being called boring. All of those are just rehashes of something that already is around.
How about some kind of tempo commander. What archetypes does boros already have? For the most part, boros is played as either a voltron or a token hoard. Aurelia and gisela are both voltron decks, where iroas and tajic like to make an ocean of tokens.
This commander is noticeably different. She is the only commander that I can think of in the colors that likes to play mid range fatties over other options. She herself benefits from it, but the rest of the deck is tempo based. The issue with boros in general is people look at it in a very narrow view. That being said I would have liked to have seen a burn commander come out. Also, for people who complain about mana issues in boros, it's honestly not that bad. gilded lotus, chromatic lantern, commander sphere, sol ring, coalition relic, boros charm. Done. You want more? Arid mesa, or for budget terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds, with sun titan. Throw in expedition map, and slot in a thawing glaciers. Don't have a land this turn? Drop glaciers. Play a land and glaciers is out? Activate it if you can spare the one mana. Why not? It thins your deck out and it provides solid tempo. I'm sure Emeria Shephard would love herself some glaciers. You want some extra fun? Vesuva, and thespian stage to chain glaciers back to back. You really want to get into it? Scrying sheets and go all snow basics. If you have the budget throw in a sensei's to sculpt for sheets. Still want more? Myriad landscape, Knight of the white orchid is a thing. Land tax for big spenders. And then there's braid of fire, and if you go slightlt tribal (which happens accidenté in red/white a lot because soldier) there's mana echoes. You want mana ramp? Stop complaining and look at your options available to you, they're there. Do they take up a chunk of your deck? Yes, yes they do. I realize that green ramp is different because it's pulling the cards out of your deck and into play (usually), which makes it so that you're less likely to draw lands when you don't want to draw a land. I get it. But this new commander is pretty obviously (to me at least) mid range tempo. Throw in a token generator package, pack in a skull clamp and a goblin bombardment. Have enough cards with 2 or less P/T? Put in a mentor of the meek. You have the beginning of card draw. Your commander isn't perfect, and it's not supposed to be. What do you want? A hasted 3/3 doubles striker with menace for 4 mana that draws you a card whenever it deals combat damage and then adds mana to your mana pool in any combination of colors during your second main phase equal to the cards in your hand, that gives you experience counters every time you cast something with cmc 4+ (instead of 5 because that's "too much mana") and gets +1/+1 for every experience counter you have?
Why look at any commander specifically on their own. Uril kills with the same clock of 5 turns without help, and he's chump blockable, he's much more reasonably kill able in the 5 toughness range since he doesn't have double strike, and he leaves you open when he swings. Hexproof isn't even as relevant anymore since arcane lighthouse is a card, and should be in almost every single deck.
Rafiq has most of the same problems as the others, he's just a turn quicker on the kill. But being more mana hungry in terms of cost, he's harder to ramp out as quickly as kalemne is.
Geist is another red zone commander, and on his own without any help you're on a 7 turn clock.
Tajic on his own is 11 turns.
Zur, on his own, 11 turns. Without any help from anywhere.
So what's the point of evaluating a card on its own. There isn't one, evaluate her in the proper environment that she would probably be played in.