I don't know if someone already spotted this but on the page of BFZ you can check the reprint status for each product.
Plus we have the confirmation that it's 80 full-art lands in the fat packs.
I dunno how unpopular my opinion will be, but screw it: IMO, WotC should break the "one print run" fat pack rule if/when - and only if/when - the demand is SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY underestimated. I mean, it feels like a huge amount will go to those hording, limiting supply disproportionately (supply whose printing was already reduced compared to previous sets)... product that is not for something special like a FtV, or commander product, but a regular set.
I mean, it's not like they've never gone out and printed more of a product when the demand/market called for it before... Commander 2013 for example - and that was a special thing, not a regular set.
I dunno how unpopular my opinion will be, but screw it: IMO, WotC should break the "one print run" fat pack rule if/when - and only if/when - the demand is SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY underestimated. I mean, it feels like a huge amount will go to those hording, limiting supply - which was reduced as it is compared to previous sets - disproportionately... and for a regular set, not for something special like a FtV, or commander product... I mean, it's not like they've never gone out and printed more of a product when the demand/market called for it before... Commander 2013 for example - and that was a special thing, not a regular set.
I really support that thought. Furthermore: This is not a promised limited release. Infact the edition is "in print", so I think players should have a chance to get the product at MRSP!
That is not how good marketing works.
Limiting the supply and appearing to underestimate the demand - means you can leverage that demand in a later product to keep continuous turn over of new product over time.
By not over saturating the market they are ensuring the ability to do this again to move more product at a later date.
You come up with enough product pushers in a short period of time and you have an engine for moving product.
I dunno how unpopular my opinion will be, but screw it: IMO, WotC should break the "one print run" fat pack rule if/when - and only if/when - the demand is SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY underestimated. I mean, it feels like a huge amount will go to those hording, limiting supply - which was reduced as it is compared to previous sets - disproportionately... and for a regular set, not for something special like a FtV, or commander product... I mean, it's not like they've never gone out and printed more of a product when the demand/market called for it before... Commander 2013 for example - and that was a special thing, not a regular set.
I really support that thought. Furthermore: This is not a promised limited release. Infact the edition is "in print", so I think players should have a chance to get the product at MRSP!
That is not how good marketing works.
Limiting the supply and appearing to underestimate the demand - means you can leverage that demand in a later product to keep continuous turn over of new product over time.
Either someone in marketing IS a genius, or really, really screwed up - I just wish WotC would say something, anything, at this point.
By not over saturating the market they are ensuring the ability to do this again to move more product at a later date.
You come up with enough product pushers in a short period of time and you have an engine for moving product.
I can't help but feel like this is not the set to begin experimenting with that, and/or if it ended up being that all along, WotC would never hear the end of it. I say that given the issues regarding stock (not just BfZ fat packs, but also things like **prerelease packs** for god's sake - yes stores have apparently been shorted those too).
I dunno how unpopular my opinion will be, but screw it: IMO, WotC should break the "one print run" fat pack rule if/when - and only if/when - the demand is SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY underestimated. I mean, it feels like a huge amount will go to those hording, limiting supply - which was reduced as it is compared to previous sets - disproportionately... and for a regular set, not for something special like a FtV, or commander product... I mean, it's not like they've never gone out and printed more of a product when the demand/market called for it before... Commander 2013 for example - and that was a special thing, not a regular set.
I really support that thought. Furthermore: This is not a promised limited release. Infact the edition is "in print", so I think players should have a chance to get the product at MRSP!
That is not how good marketing works.
Limiting the supply and appearing to underestimate the demand - means you can leverage that demand in a later product to keep continuous turn over of new product over time.
Either someone in marketing IS a genius, or really, really screwed up - I just wish WotC would say something, anything, at this point.
By not over saturating the market they are ensuring the ability to do this again to move more product at a later date.
You come up with enough product pushers in a short period of time and you have an engine for moving product.
I can't help but feel like this is not the set to begin experimenting with that, and/or if it ended up being that all along, WotC would never hear the end of it. I say that given the issues regarding stock (not just BfZ fat packs, but also things like **prerelease packs** for god's sake - yes stores have apparently been shorted those too).
They have not been experimenting with it at all. This has been how it has been for quite some time now.
Magic grows every year, and there is no real efficient way to know what kind of reactivation within the player base your special chase events are going to get. WOTC is flying blind in this regard because you cannot really accurately measure it and print demand based on speculative numbers. This is especially true when you are implementing chase cards intended to push the initial product without oversaturating the market.
I dunno how unpopular my opinion will be, but screw it: IMO, WotC should break the "one print run" fat pack rule if/when - and only if/when - the demand is SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY underestimated. I mean, it feels like a huge amount will go to those hording, limiting supply - which was reduced as it is compared to previous sets - disproportionately... and for a regular set, not for something special like a FtV, or commander product... I mean, it's not like they've never gone out and printed more of a product when the demand/market called for it before... Commander 2013 for example - and that was a special thing, not a regular set.
I really support that thought. Furthermore: This is not a promised limited release. Infact the edition is "in print", so I think players should have a chance to get the product at MRSP!
That is not how good marketing works.
Limiting the supply and appearing to underestimate the demand - means you can leverage that demand in a later product to keep continuous turn over of new product over time.
By not over saturating the market they are ensuring the ability to do this again to move more product at a later date.
You come up with enough product pushers in a short period of time and you have an engine for moving product.
No, good buissness is saturating the demand, and then find something new. There are still unglued and unhinged lands. You still have different artwork. There are still enough things to do, before you need "zendikar full art" lands again.
Enraging your customer base, making them feel cheated is certainly not the way.
Good marketing and good business ethics are not the same thing.
Cash is king and over saturating the market means less revenue over time.
I am willing to bet that players will not hesitate to buy BFZ booster packs in lieu of the "limited" fat pack. MTG is the OG CCG/TCG and has been around for 22 years now as they have done the best in balancing the needs of collectors/gamers AND dealers/speculators. So, the fat pack is more "limited" this release because people actually wanted them in quantity this set versus the x number of previous releases. How many fat packs do we need collecting dust at big box chains and lcg's across the country (probably filling warehouse spaces too). Also, because of the Expeditions chase set the number of booster cases that will be opened by online retailers, stores and speculators will make ALL Mythics, Rares and Full Art Lands much cheaper than in previous sets. This cancels out the cost of obtaining FAL sets to the masses. Isn't this a good thing ? Heck, it even appears that the Expeditions are going to fall 2+ per booster case which in turn will make the average price of them far less than expected. This will allow more to collect them as the increased availability from the booster box openings will get supply closer to meeting demand. In order for WoTC to continue to grow it can NOT just cater to the player it has to cater to the stores/dealers willing to invest too. I guarantee you the death of Magic the Gathering will be when everything starts getting reprinted and supply exceeds demand. I am not a big fan of cards losing half their value in a few days when they are reprinted in a event deck for example. Some cards should be more valuable and perhaps unattainable to the masses. It adds to the collector side of this game. Where is the fun in collecting things that are easily attainable? Hot chicks aren't easily attainable ! LOL
I am not a big fan of cards losing half their value in a few days when they are reprinted in a event deck for example. Some cards should be more valuable and perhaps unattainable to the masses.
But we're not talking about specific cards, we're talking about product that people ordered, stores ordered, that got cancelled due to the underestimation of demand.
I dunno how unpopular my opinion will be, but screw it: IMO, WotC should break the "one print run" fat pack rule if/when - and only if/when - the demand is SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY underestimated. I mean, it feels like a huge amount will go to those hording, limiting supply - which was reduced as it is compared to previous sets - disproportionately... and for a regular set, not for something special like a FtV, or commander product... I mean, it's not like they've never gone out and printed more of a product when the demand/market called for it before... Commander 2013 for example - and that was a special thing, not a regular set.
I really support that thought. Furthermore: This is not a promised limited release. Infact the edition is "in print", so I think players should have a chance to get the product at MRSP!
That is not how good marketing works.
Limiting the supply and appearing to underestimate the demand - means you can leverage that demand in a later product to keep continuous turn over of new product over time.
By not over saturating the market they are ensuring the ability to do this again to move more product at a later date.
You come up with enough product pushers in a short period of time and you have an engine for moving product.
No, good buissness is saturating the demand, and then find something new. There are still unglued and unhinged lands. You still have different artwork. There are still enough things to do, before you need "zendikar full art" lands again.
Enraging your customer base, making them feel cheated is certainly not the way.
Why are you assuming that the customer base is feeling cheated? Just because a small number of people are being pissy? Not evidence. The vast majority of people are extremely happy with this set, regardless of what the entitled minority seems to think.
No, the orders are being cancelled by store owners or dealers who underestimated their ability to get far more than they order from their distributors. It was stated earlier by a store that they normally NEVER order more than the 25% of the Fat Packs that are allocated to them. They shouldn't have expected to not only get their full allotment this time around but also additional ordered. The HUGE majority of these cancellations come directly from distributors NOT WotC . I think the blame is being placed incorrectly here . Entities pre-selling product before comfirmation of numbers are also to blame. WotC used a lot of research of past sales to determine print run. Who is to say the number printed wasn't a generous 5 times normal print run?
There is ample supply to buy the in-print set. What is not in supply is fat packs, AKA a storage box and 80 full-arts. There is basically no reason to buy a fat pack instead of a normal box, which is why stores never ordered their full allocation in the past. Even for other, less in demand sets, fat packs have never been worthwhile even for the pack prices, at least around here. They're priced about the same as the packs they contain, you get a dice, lands and a box for free.
So, yes, people merely complain because they crave the full-art lands, not because BfZ is hard to get.
It's not really in Wizards interest of printing more fat pack, as it looks like people are buying them instead of boxes, not a good turn of events for Wizards. (i.e. I fully expect fat packs to be more expensive to produce than a pack box, due to the multiple pieces to be assembled.)
I am not a big fan of cards losing half their value in a few days when they are reprinted in a event deck for example. Some cards should be more valuable and perhaps unattainable to the masses. It adds to the collector side of this game. Where is the fun in collecting things that are easily attainable? Hot chicks aren't easily attainable ! LOL
I am a big fan of cards losing half their value in a few days when they are reprinted in an event deck. In print cards should not be unobtainable by the masses. Complaining about prices goes both ways here. Being forced to choose a deck for an entire season because it's too expensive to switch decks is going to be the death of Magic. I like collecting as much as the next guy, but I know I like brewing and playing different decks throughout a standard rotation period a lot more. I'd rather see them printing MORE event decks, one for each FFL archetype or something, so tournament staple rares stay affordable. I can't really see the link between high prices and collectability either to be honest. Trading card game and collectable card game are two different things too.
So, the solution is to make all cards common ? I mean that would certainly keep prices down . All cards inserted at exact same rate. Perhaps just sell new sets in complete set form. Most people I know who play this game and collect this game spend a lot of money and it is nice to know that if they no longer play there will be return value when they move on to other things. Also, MtG was/is and has been both a ccg and tcg over it's 22 years. I am 41 and started playing when it was released . Lost interest in my early 20's and re-visited the game 5+ years ago when I realized my sealed product and decks were worth CRAZY money . Good thing I never tossed any of my collectible stuff (comics,toys, sportscards etc )
Well, pre-release kits, event decks and booster packs are at or far LESS than MSRP. As is the case with virtually ALL in print releases. The fact that the Fat Packs , which have a MSRP of 39.99, are selling for above is indeed crazy. But the fault there is in peoples desires to have something now instead of later. 9 packs can be bought for less that $36.00 and a PLAYSET of the new FAL's will be $20-$25 shortly after release. Do people actually believe that WotC and Hasbro cut orders to the big box stores?! Seriously, Wal-Mart and Target's will help meet a significant amount of the demand with their supply come release. As comparing the cost of Toys/Comics and other collectibles , you will find that obtaining them at less than MSRP upon release when HOT is damn near impossible yet we will see boosters of BFZ at the 550-600 per case range (far less than the $144/box or $864/ case MSRP) for the entirety of rotation. The secondary market for singles is what keeps the game alive. IF cards had no additional value then StarCity Games, Channel Fireball and LGS's wouldn't exist and nor would the supply of cards needed for the gamers. The fact that BFZ boosters will be opened in record amounts will keep mythics and rares from being even more expensive relative to if the product sat on shelves unopened. I do think that the inclusion of Expeditions, if they are the beginning of a trend towards gimmicks, will be bad moving forward. Will we see multiple styles of foils for each card, #'d cards and a steady stream of FTV and Modern Master type products ? Anything that moves MtG towards sportscards and comics is a bad thing. All IMO of course.
Will we see multiple styles of foils for each card, #'d cards ...
yeah, I think things like a limited run, of premium chase cards with serial # for pure collectors, and alternative art FA cards of every rarity is whats coming. WotC is experimenting with the expeditions and based on this, might go all in for extra-marketing tricks aside from normal cardset printings.
id bet more not standard-legal cards will be included in new set releases, or who knows maybe special collector set releases
if I cant buy a fatpack for the lands as I'd planned, im not broken up over it, but im not buying tons of boosters. if they come available later by themselves Id drop 25 on a bunch of those FA lands.
There is something that can't be gained from getting full art basics from trading, and online: That odd feeling of ownership that comes from opening your own pack, that these lands are perfectly untouched when you open the pack, and/or store them/start putting them in your decks... weird I know, but some people give a damn about that new card smell, that freshness... heh... for some reason that reminded me of the Avacyn Restored prerelease I went to, where half the people at my table spent time sniffing the cards. 0_o
Too bad WotC couldn't just make packs of full art basics and sell that. -;_;-
Plus we have the confirmation that it's 80 full-art lands in the fat packs.
http://wpn.wizards.com/en/products/battle-zendikar
I mean, it's not like they've never gone out and printed more of a product when the demand/market called for it before... Commander 2013 for example - and that was a special thing, not a regular set.
That is not how good marketing works.
Limiting the supply and appearing to underestimate the demand - means you can leverage that demand in a later product to keep continuous turn over of new product over time.
By not over saturating the market they are ensuring the ability to do this again to move more product at a later date.
You come up with enough product pushers in a short period of time and you have an engine for moving product.
I can't help but feel like this is not the set to begin experimenting with that, and/or if it ended up being that all along, WotC would never hear the end of it. I say that given the issues regarding stock (not just BfZ fat packs, but also things like **prerelease packs** for god's sake - yes stores have apparently been shorted those too).
They have not been experimenting with it at all. This has been how it has been for quite some time now.
Magic grows every year, and there is no real efficient way to know what kind of reactivation within the player base your special chase events are going to get. WOTC is flying blind in this regard because you cannot really accurately measure it and print demand based on speculative numbers. This is especially true when you are implementing chase cards intended to push the initial product without oversaturating the market.
Good marketing and good business ethics are not the same thing.
Cash is king and over saturating the market means less revenue over time.
Except... that's not what is being asked for here.
But we're not talking about specific cards, we're talking about product that people ordered, stores ordered, that got cancelled due to the underestimation of demand.
Why are you assuming that the customer base is feeling cheated? Just because a small number of people are being pissy? Not evidence. The vast majority of people are extremely happy with this set, regardless of what the entitled minority seems to think.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Well no.
The deal is, every shop ordered way more Fatpacks than usual.
If a store normally would order like 12 Fatpacks and suddenly wants 100+ it wont get them, especially as every shop wants to.
Bunch of shops probably would normally even order no fatpacks at all, and suddenly did in big numbers.
Which store they priorize is the question.
They produce just as much as every time, demand is just much much higher.
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Yet you don't have any more relevant data to prove either claim.
So, yes, people merely complain because they crave the full-art lands, not because BfZ is hard to get.
It's not really in Wizards interest of printing more fat pack, as it looks like people are buying them instead of boxes, not a good turn of events for Wizards. (i.e. I fully expect fat packs to be more expensive to produce than a pack box, due to the multiple pieces to be assembled.)
So, the solution is to make all cards common ? I mean that would certainly keep prices down . All cards inserted at exact same rate. Perhaps just sell new sets in complete set form. Most people I know who play this game and collect this game spend a lot of money and it is nice to know that if they no longer play there will be return value when they move on to other things. Also, MtG was/is and has been both a ccg and tcg over it's 22 years. I am 41 and started playing when it was released . Lost interest in my early 20's and re-visited the game 5+ years ago when I realized my sealed product and decks were worth CRAZY money . Good thing I never tossed any of my collectible stuff (comics,toys, sportscards etc )
yeah, I think things like a limited run, of premium chase cards with serial # for pure collectors, and alternative art FA cards of every rarity is whats coming. WotC is experimenting with the expeditions and based on this, might go all in for extra-marketing tricks aside from normal cardset printings.
id bet more not standard-legal cards will be included in new set releases, or who knows maybe special collector set releases
if I cant buy a fatpack for the lands as I'd planned, im not broken up over it, but im not buying tons of boosters. if they come available later by themselves Id drop 25 on a bunch of those FA lands.
Too bad WotC couldn't just make packs of full art basics and sell that. -;_;-