It would probably be fine at uncommon, but it seems like a limited trap at uncommon (people try their darnedest to run counterspells when they usually aren't the greatest)
I dunno, in limited it's usually fine to play a counterspell attached to a body. Not a windmill-slam first pick or anything, but not a horrible unplayable card either.
<speculation>Counterspells in general may increase in value in this environment due to stupidly large Eldrazi on the other side of the table. </speculation>
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Just curious. Can anyone name a spell that both countered any spell (so no Geist Snatch or similar) and made a creature (or was a Creature) that wasn't Rare?
It looks like it's powerful in Limited, which would justify the rare rarity. In limited games, getting to 6 mana happens often enough and creature removal is a premium. So, counter a spell and get a manland may put that player at the advantage.
Card seems fine. It's less useful than Dissolve, but it'll be the go-to three mana hard counter in the format. Instant speed Awaken is a lot more palatable to me than sorcery speed.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
Just curious. Can anyone name a spell that both countered any spell (so no Geist Snatch or similar) and made a creature (or was a Creature) that wasn't Rare?
Draining Whelk is the only other card that does it...so the analogy doesn't really apply.
Fold into Æther is an uncommon, but it's hardly comparable in that it's meant to cheat a creature/artifact into play more than be a strict hard counter.
Out of curiosity, do you guys believe that Draining Whelk should have been an Uncommon?
This card is not as powerful, no, but it's in the same vein as Whelk, and hey, it can cost 3 and not 6.
draining whelk is fine at rare.
It's actually a lot more powerful than the awaken version of this card.
the "you can't cast it as a Cancel" downside, as relevant as it is, is just not really enough to say this card will be a limited bomb or anything.
It was safe to print this at uncommon.
Draining Whelk, in the other hand, IS a Limited bomb.
if you manage to cast that countering ANYTHING with CMC5+ in limited, then you probably just won.
having too many of those running rampant would be quite a big issue for the format.
I remember when I cast Draining Whelk targeting Emrakul, the Aeons Torn on the stack (in a casual match of course), the look in the face of my opponent was priceless...
he got that extra turn with emrakul in play....
and decided not to attack with it against my 16/16 Draining Whelk
it was one of those times I laught so hard it hurt... lol
Just curious. Can anyone name a spell that both countered any spell (so no Geist Snatch or similar) and made a creature (or was a Creature) that wasn't Rare?
People wouldn't have so much of a problem with cards like this being printed at rare if it weren't for the blatant rarity creep of staples that's been going on for a while now and has become painfully obvious of late.
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That was pretty interesting. But dropping a warship on me is cheating. Take it back!
Just curious. Can anyone name a spell that both countered any spell (so no Geist Snatch or similar) and made a creature (or was a Creature) that wasn't Rare?
Callow Jushi had multiple counter unless they pay 2 when he flipped, and he's uncommon
Just curious. Can anyone name a spell that both countered any spell (so no Geist Snatch or similar) and made a creature (or was a Creature) that wasn't Rare?
Callow Jushi had multiple counter unless they pay 2 when he flipped, and he's uncommon
Not a hard counter though. A powerful soft counter, but not a hard counter. Plus, that one required the setup of play the Callow Jushi, then at least two Spirit or Arcane, and then you can counter. I don't think that's quite what was being asked for.
But the rare thing, yeah, who knew depicting a world being invaded by hordes of eldrazi would be this difficult to build around. Definitely agree with the sentiment that it's rare because getting your big mythic eldrazi countered in limited isn't going to encourage using the main-event stars.
orlouge: I guess my point is that, Ulamog's Nullifier (thanks, ThyLord!) aside, any spell that counters any spell and leaves you with more creatures on the table than before the spell is at least Rare. Just did a Gatherer search.
I will also point out, briefly, that Ulamog's Nullifier does have a hoop to jump through.
The fact that Draining Whelk is more powerful than Scatter to the Winds is actually irrelevant, as it has been a consistent Magic design principle since at least Apocalypse (so, 2001) that these kinds of cards are and should be rare.
I am explicitly not making the argument that Scatter to the Winds is too powerful for Limited at Uncommon. I am saying that this effect, properly speaking, belongs to Rare.
Just curious. Can anyone name a spell that both countered any spell (so no Geist Snatch or similar) and made a creature (or was a Creature) that wasn't Rare?
Callow Jushi had multiple counter unless they pay 2 when he flipped, and he's uncommon
Not a hard counter though. A powerful soft counter, but not a hard counter. Plus, that one required the setup of play the Callow Jushi, then at least two Spirit or Arcane, and then you can counter. I don't think that's quite what was being asked for.
It had the "or was a creature" in parentheses. I think it qualifies. Ulamog's Nullifier has already been mentioned as well. This is a fine card, but it should have been uncommon.
Just curious. Can anyone name a spell that both countered any spell (so no Geist Snatch or similar) and made a creature (or was a Creature) that wasn't Rare?
Callow Jushi had multiple counter unless they pay 2 when he flipped, and he's uncommon
Not a hard counter though. A powerful soft counter, but not a hard counter. Plus, that one required the setup of play the Callow Jushi, then at least two Spirit or Arcane, and then you can counter. I don't think that's quite what was being asked for.
It had the "or was a creature" in parentheses. I think it qualifies. Ulamog's Nullifier has already been mentioned as well. This is a fine card, but it should have been uncommon.
Emcee: I do stand corrected with Ulamog's Nullifier, though I guess I did mean, more or less, a hard counter, both in terms of what it can hit and the ways out of it.
I completely disagree for Theory reasons that this should be more Common than a Rare.
I think, really, that people are seeing it as 'Cancel + possible upside', when I see it as 'bad Draining Whelk with Evoke'.
I love how this spoiler makes me feel better for not buying a box. Spoiler season: the more you see, the more you save!
I don't mind the spell. It's a ways down from the others in the category "strictly better Cancels", though.
I'm still gonna end up buying a box or two. For as bad and janky as the rares and a few of the mythics are this format looks pretty cool from a limited perspective.
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In a format where people have 1/1 from lots of stuff, there are titan eldrazi and that having lands animated is usually a drawback from getting tokens this card would have been fine at uncommon. Leaving 6 mana up every turn isn't one of those tricks where you'll catch your opponent off-guard.
This is pure garbage at rare. The only card I want from this set is ob nixilis and that's saying something.
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I think people are forgetting that awaken makes it possible to play a control-deck without actually having to play any threats (drawing too many late game threats and no enough answers is a good way to lose as a control deck). That's usually a very powerful thing, but I guess only time will tell if this is as bad as people say it is.
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I dunno, in limited it's usually fine to play a counterspell attached to a body. Not a windmill-slam first pick or anything, but not a horrible unplayable card either.
<speculation>Counterspells in general may increase in value in this environment due to stupidly large Eldrazi on the other side of the table. </speculation>
Card seems fine. It's less useful than Dissolve, but it'll be the go-to three mana hard counter in the format. Instant speed Awaken is a lot more palatable to me than sorcery speed.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
I am over these previews.
Draining Whelk is the only other card that does it...so the analogy doesn't really apply.
Fold into Æther is an uncommon, but it's hardly comparable in that it's meant to cheat a creature/artifact into play more than be a strict hard counter.
draining whelk is fine at rare.
It's actually a lot more powerful than the awaken version of this card.
the "you can't cast it as a Cancel" downside, as relevant as it is, is just not really enough to say this card will be a limited bomb or anything.
It was safe to print this at uncommon.
Draining Whelk, in the other hand, IS a Limited bomb.
if you manage to cast that countering ANYTHING with CMC5+ in limited, then you probably just won.
having too many of those running rampant would be quite a big issue for the format.
I remember when I cast Draining Whelk targeting Emrakul, the Aeons Torn on the stack (in a casual match of course), the look in the face of my opponent was priceless...
he got that extra turn with emrakul in play....
and decided not to attack with it against my 16/16 Draining Whelk
it was one of those times I laught so hard it hurt... lol
...Ulamog's Nullifier?
Not a hard counter though. A powerful soft counter, but not a hard counter. Plus, that one required the setup of play the Callow Jushi, then at least two Spirit or Arcane, and then you can counter. I don't think that's quite what was being asked for.
But the rare thing, yeah, who knew depicting a world being invaded by hordes of eldrazi would be this difficult to build around. Definitely agree with the sentiment that it's rare because getting your big mythic eldrazi countered in limited isn't going to encourage using the main-event stars.
I will also point out, briefly, that Ulamog's Nullifier does have a hoop to jump through.
The fact that Draining Whelk is more powerful than Scatter to the Winds is actually irrelevant, as it has been a consistent Magic design principle since at least Apocalypse (so, 2001) that these kinds of cards are and should be rare.
I am explicitly not making the argument that Scatter to the Winds is too powerful for Limited at Uncommon. I am saying that this effect, properly speaking, belongs to Rare.
It counts, yes, but I still think the idea was "playing this counters a spell and makes a creature" a la Mystic Snake, or Draining Whelk, or Mystic Genesis.
I completely disagree for Theory reasons that this should be more Common than a Rare.
I think, really, that people are seeing it as 'Cancel + possible upside', when I see it as 'bad Draining Whelk with Evoke'.
I'm still gonna end up buying a box or two. For as bad and janky as the rares and a few of the mythics are this format looks pretty cool from a limited perspective.
Dunes of Zairo
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A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
This is pure garbage at rare. The only card I want from this set is ob nixilis and that's saying something.
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Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain