As you can see, Tabak likened the problem to Void Maw plus Leyline of the Void. You can still put the creature into the graveyard, but it will just get re-exiled.
This isn't the same, Void Maw simply wants you to move the card to activate the ability, it doesn't check if the card actually made it to the graveyard or not. The other ability, in theory anyway, checks on resolution if the requirement (card successfully moving from exile to the graveyard) was met, similar to the recent Ferocious.
If Void Maw's ability was more like,
"0: Put a card exiled with Void Maw into it's owner's graveyard. If you do, Void Maw gets +2/+2 until end of turn,"
that would be a more accurate comparison.
This isn't the same, Void Maw simply wants you to move the card to activate the ability, it doesn't check if the card actually made it to the graveyard or not. The other ability, in theory anyway, checks on resolution if the requirement (card successfully moving from exile to the graveyard) was met, similar to the recent Ferocious.
If Void Maw's ability was more like,
"0: Put a card exiled with Void Maw into it's owner's graveyard. If you do, Void Maw gets +2/+2 until end of turn,"
that would be a more accurate comparison.
You can say this all you like, but if the Rules Manager of WotC says otherwise, that's how it's going to work.
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As you can see, Tabak likened the problem to Void Maw plus Leyline of the Void. You can still put the creature into the graveyard, but it will just get re-exiled.
This isn't the same, Void Maw simply wants you to move the card to activate the ability, it doesn't check if the card actually made it to the graveyard or not. The other ability, in theory anyway, checks on resolution if the requirement (card successfully moving from exile to the graveyard) was met, similar to the recent Ferocious.
If Void Maw's ability was more like,
"0: Put a card exiled with Void Maw into it's owner's graveyard. If you do, Void Maw gets +2/+2 until end of turn,"
that would be a more accurate comparison.
That wording makes no difference. Note that there is no further reference to the exile zone/graveyard in the if you do. When a replacement effect affects an ability, it literally replaces the text on that ability for that instance.
In this case, if the ability reads
- "Put a thing into a graveyard from exile and then if you do, do a thing"
and there is a replacement ability that says
- "If a thing would be put into a graveyard, instead put it in exile,"
then after the replacement ability affects the ability, the new ability for that instance says:
- "Put a thing into exile from exile and then if you do, do a thing"
Which completely 100% works. Since the second half doesn't say anything about graveyard, and only checks that you did the first thing (which may or may not have been modified), it works fine; once the replacement takes affect, the second half just says, did you do it?
In order to have if NOT work with replacement effects, you would need an ability that read: "Put a thing into a graveyard from exile and then if you put it into the graveyard, do a thing" that way when the replacement ability happens, only the movement is replaced and not the check.
That wording makes no difference. Note that there is no further reference to the exile zone/graveyard in the if you do. When a replacement effect affects an ability, it literally replaces the text on that ability for that instance.
In this case, if the ability reads
- "Put a thing into a graveyard from exile and then if you do, do a thing"
and there is a replacement ability that says
- "If a thing would be put into a graveyard, instead put it in exile,"
then after the replacement ability affects the ability, the new ability for that instance says:
- "Put a thing into exile from exile and then if you do, do a thing"
Which completely 100% works. Since the second half doesn't say anything about graveyard, and only checks that you did the first thing (which may or may not have been modified), it works fine; once the replacement takes affect, the second half just says, did you do it?
In order to have if NOT work with replacement effects, you would need an ability that read: "Put a thing into a graveyard from exile and then if you put it into the graveyard, do a thing" that way when the replacement ability happens, only the movement is replaced and not the check.
The former is pretty unintuitive. Seems like an unfortunate nuance of the rule.
The latter would likely be worded "if [a/that] card is put into a graveyard this way, [...]". There is precedent for this type of wording on a few cards Terastodon Tuktuk Scrapper Werewolf Ransacker
And one thing : Void Mawnow works with tokens instead ( because finding combos is somehow bad for the game and maybe the (judges?))
If another creature would be put into a graveyard from play, remove it from the game with a corpse counter on it instead.
Put a card removed from the game with a corpse counter on it into its owner's graveyard: Void Maw gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
And one thing : Void Mawnow works with tokenscounters instead ( because finding combos is somehow bad for the game and maybe the (judges?))
If another creature would be put into a graveyard from play, remove it from the game with a corpse counter on it instead.
Put a card removed from the game with a corpse counter on it into its owner's graveyard: Void Maw gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
Well, our source for this card has successfully predicted Ob Nixilis Reignited and Undergrowth Champion, just confirmed a little earlier. The hype for this card should be real. The exact wording of it will definitely play a factor as many have suggested, but as a modern player, I'm excited by the potential new archetype that may come from this card.
I just want it to be revealed already so I can know if it's 1B or 2B.
I love that there are pages of debate on how exactly this card works and yet we don't know the exact wording, which means that we can't know exactly how this card works.
I'm excited for it, however it actually works.
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So with the green eldrazi token enchantment spoiled i think this will not see the light of day anymore?
Shame.. i would loved a second (good) black token maker in EDH.
I wouldn't discount this quite yet despite the green enchantment. They serve two completely different purposes. The black enchantment seems like a good source for ingest to fuel things like the new counterspell that returns 2 cards to the graveyard. This at 1B would ensure that you have 2 exiled cards when you get to your fourth turn to make that counterspell live....I'm voting real and I'll be super happy about it.
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Does the spoiling of From Beyond today lend any credence to the legitimacy, or lack there of, of this card being real? I cant decide either way because, while the cards seem similar in function, they still do different things. Also, they are at different CMC and color. If this is real then it seems quite pushed in comparison to From Beyond. A little too pushed for my taste to be honest.
EDIT: Srry. Didn't read the last few posts before replying.Seems some of you are asking the same question.
I think this is "confirmed fake" at this point. The green enchantment is clearly worse than this one and there's no reason to make two similar rares that basically do the same thing, with the exception that one would actually be good and the other absolutely horrible.
Well From Beyond is far from Terrible, it is slower than Awakaning Zone, but its Tutor capabilities make a huge difference.
I´m actually considering to play it, because it gets a quit powerful Toolbox when you consider enough Tool-ish Eldrazi, as this allows you to fetch and play Eldrazis with cmc 4 or less the next turn.
With Drana and the terrible vampire, black now has 2 mythics and 6 rares, so unless this card is common or uncommon, it can't get in without severely messing with the rarity balance.
My bet is the guy saw an early version of From Beyond, or maybe got a glance and got the color and CMC wrong, or was just spit balling at the new awakening zone with the new mechanics?
Who knows though. There's usually a last minute awesome card or three. Maybe a devoid black artifact?
With Drana and the terrible vampire, black now has 2 mythics and 6 rares, so unless this card is common or uncommon, it can't get in without severely messing with the rarity balance.
In theory it has devoid, which would put it in the colorless rarity scheme. No idea if the number crunch has made that invalid yet or not though.
I'm pinning my hopes for this set on this card. The only other card that has me any sort of excited is Bring to Light, in terms of deck-building possibilities. If this turns out fake, I might just end up buying singles of this set, which is not something I have ever done.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
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This isn't the same, Void Maw simply wants you to move the card to activate the ability, it doesn't check if the card actually made it to the graveyard or not. The other ability, in theory anyway, checks on resolution if the requirement (card successfully moving from exile to the graveyard) was met, similar to the recent Ferocious.
If Void Maw's ability was more like,
"0: Put a card exiled with Void Maw into it's owner's graveyard. If you do, Void Maw gets +2/+2 until end of turn,"
that would be a more accurate comparison.
You can say this all you like, but if the Rules Manager of WotC says otherwise, that's how it's going to work.
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That wording makes no difference. Note that there is no further reference to the exile zone/graveyard in the if you do. When a replacement effect affects an ability, it literally replaces the text on that ability for that instance.
In this case, if the ability reads
- "Put a thing into a graveyard from exile and then if you do, do a thing"
and there is a replacement ability that says
- "If a thing would be put into a graveyard, instead put it in exile,"
then after the replacement ability affects the ability, the new ability for that instance says:
- "Put a thing into exile from exile and then if you do, do a thing"
Which completely 100% works. Since the second half doesn't say anything about graveyard, and only checks that you did the first thing (which may or may not have been modified), it works fine; once the replacement takes affect, the second half just says, did you do it?
In order to have if NOT work with replacement effects, you would need an ability that read: "Put a thing into a graveyard from exile and then if you put it into the graveyard, do a thing" that way when the replacement ability happens, only the movement is replaced and not the check.
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The former is pretty unintuitive. Seems like an unfortunate nuance of the rule.
The latter would likely be worded "if [a/that] card is put into a graveyard this way, [...]". There is precedent for this type of wording on a few cards
Terastodon
Tuktuk Scrapper
Werewolf Ransacker
the only card that can work with it for infinite is Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
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I love that there are pages of debate on how exactly this card works and yet we don't know the exact wording, which means that we can't know exactly how this card works.
I'm excited for it, however it actually works.
I wouldn't discount this quite yet despite the green enchantment. They serve two completely different purposes. The black enchantment seems like a good source for ingest to fuel things like the new counterspell that returns 2 cards to the graveyard. This at 1B would ensure that you have 2 exiled cards when you get to your fourth turn to make that counterspell live....I'm voting real and I'll be super happy about it.
Thank you WOTC for introducing the Modern format, a format where all the whiners can enjoy a level playing field and where they can play with none of the best cards of all time!
EDIT: Srry. Didn't read the last few posts before replying.Seems some of you are asking the same question.
your not only paying the extra 1 mana for the tutor ability buit also because it makes 1/1 tokens instead of 0/1 tokens which are way more powerful.
I think people underestimate how much better it is for them to be 1/1 creatures then 0/1 creatures.
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Who knows though. There's usually a last minute awesome card or three. Maybe a devoid black artifact?
Scion Blossom would have been sweet.
In theory it has devoid, which would put it in the colorless rarity scheme. No idea if the number crunch has made that invalid yet or not though.