Dual lands with the Basic Land types that comes into play tapped would still be great IMO.
I still say the Scrylands should have had the land types.
I know that would have done things they don't like to Standard,
but at least they'd be borderline playable in Modern.
I agree. At least fetching a scryland would be pretty nice as have interaction with other land abilities like Valakut/Islandwalk etc. IMO Scrylands were perhaps one of the worse lands to print at rare they have ever made. It reeked of rarity creep. Seriously, Standard has a very low power level despite having fetches. They are just fetching basic lands. Once this standard rotates, Scrylands will be forgotten. No format aside from kitchen table will want them due to their slowness.
Like most people I am irked that there is no fetches printed. Yet I remain hopeful that Wizards is making something special for these cycle of dual lands. They really can't... burn us again. Can they....?
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Dual lands with the Basic Land types that comes into play tapped would still be great IMO.
I still say the Scrylands should have had the land types.
I know that would have done things they don't like to Standard,
but at least they'd be borderline playable in Modern.
I agree. At least fetching a scryland would be pretty nice as have interaction with other land abilities like Valakut/Islandwalk etc. IMO Scrylands were perhaps one of the worse lands to print at rare they have ever made. It reeked of rarity creep. Seriously, Standard has a very low power level despite having fetches. They are just fetching basic lands. Once this standard rotates, Scrylands will be forgotten. No format aside from kitchen table will want them due to their slowness.
Like most people I am irked that there is no fetches printed. Yet I remain hopeful that Wizards is making something special for these cycle of dual lands. They really can't... burn us again. Can they....?
Thank goodness this thread turned from dissing WOTC for not having the enemy fetchlands, to speculation of the BFZ dual lands.
They could be enemy Fastlands, enemy Manlands, or perhaps something indeed new that we haven't seen before.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Scrylands were gorgeous and that's all that matters. Temple of Mystery and Temple of Enlightenment are especially beautiful.
I'd have made them Legendary, called them Temple of Kruphix, Temple of Ephara, etc. and had them either have Basic Land types or have a way to come into play untapped, or what have you. Although having them come into play tapped and still have Basic Land types without being Legendary still wouldn't be too broken either.
Regardless, beauty/theme > everything else tbh
I'd love to see these new BFZ lands have Landfall. Literally Zendikar coming alive to defeat the Eldrazi.
Zendikar Land
Land
ETB Tapped
Landfall - Untap Zendikar Land.
Tap: Add U or B to your mana pool.
People saying they aren't excited for bfz seem to mostly be people who don't buy packs anyway except maybe if playing limited. The set is bound to have solid reprints, new multi format playables, and other cards people just want to collect.
Stop crying about fetches and ranting about wizards killing a game that has never been healthier and play it or don't.
Here an idea for new lands representing Eldrazi destruction
New land
land - basic A basic B
New land enter the battlefield with 3 COUNTER_NAME on it
Whenever New land is tapped for mana remove a COUNTER_NAME from New land if there is no COUNTER_NAME
on New land sacrifice it the put a land token name Desolated land with "tap add 1 to your mana pool" on the
battlefield.
I am upset by this. I really want to get into Modern, but as long as Wizards refuses to make the most essential part of a deck, the mana base, less expensive than a months rent or a used car, I cannot. I think full art lands are awesome, but they should have included them in Origins to have full art lands depicting something other than hedrons, as well as having full art lands of ten planes, not just one. The better include the colorless producing basic land in the full art ones of BFZ. That is all.
Here an idea for new lands representing Eldrazi destruction
New land
land - basic A basic B
New land enter the battlefield with 3 COUNTER_NAME on it
Whenever New land is tapped for mana remove a COUNTER_NAME from New land if there is no COUNTER_NAME
on New land sacrifice it the put a land token name Desolated land with "tap add 1 to your mana pool" on the
battlefield.
Don't remember the source, but on one of the official Tumblrs it was stated that land tokens wouldn't be a thing. This design would work, though:
Zendikar Sea
Land - Island Swamp (t: Add U or B to your mana pool.)
Whenever Zendikar Sea is tapped for colored mana, put a ruin counter on it.
As long as Zendikar Sea has three or more ruin counters on it, it loses all basic land types and has "t: Add 1 to your mana pool."
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EDH/Commander
(W/U)(W/U)Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: The New da Vinci (historic control)
(W/B)(W/B)Teysa Karlov: Death Be Not Kind (aristocrats)
(R/G)(R/G)Hallar, the Firefletcher: Yavimaya Burning (kicker and counters)
(B/G)(G/U)Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Queen of the Damned (dredge)
Maybe Build
(W/U)(U/B)Aminatou, the Fateshifter: And a Child Shall Lead Them (superfriends)
As I said before, crying about this seems kind of dumb, though I'd have preferred the fetches to be reprinted. And no, I don't own any.
But what I really can't understand is these people who say 'oh, they're just lands, how can anyone get excited over lands?' Lands are the coolest cards, especially the old ones. Who doesn't want to go to the Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, or to an Arid Mesa, or whatever? They're awesome.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
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Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
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Bummer. I quit the game before starting college, sometime during the Future Sight block. I started playing again a little over a year ago and was looking forward to cracking some packs to find enemy fetches. Regardless, I'm still pretty jazzed to open a new set from the Zendikar plane; I missed out on some pretty bad ass blocks during 2009 - RTR.
Anyone else not really interested in Battle for Zendikar anymore after this?
This announcement pretty much tells me not to get fetches anytime soon.
We've seen literally 2 cards from BFZ. How on earth are people making judgment calls about it already?
In my case:
>No anihillator
>No fetchlands
>Zen full arts are hideous compared to Unhinged, Unglued and Nielsen's
>Don't play standard
>Commander product comes out a month after
I have no reason to be exited about Zendikar. And I wouldn't be surprised if the only thing I buy are the planeswalkers once the SCG cash-grab season ends, and the new duals if they're EDH playable.
We haven't seen any of the replacement mechanics. What if one of them is cooler?
We haven't seen the new dual cycle. What if they're playable?
We haven't seen the art on the new Zendikar lands. What if they look good?
We haven't seen the cards yet. What if there are Modern playable cards in it?
TL;DR claiming you aren't going to buy any of BFZ when he have seen literally zero cards is dumb. Once the spoiler comes out and you don't see anything you want in there, then by all means don't buy any. But claiming you won't when less than 1% of the set is spoiled is a great way to look silly.
It's not just you, far from it. There are a lot of people who expected the fetchlands in this block (Whether that was justified or not is an entirely different debate) but you seriously overstate the number of those people. The majority of people who buy Magic product probably don't even care about fetchlands, or lands in general. You are just a very loud minority, don't act like you talk for everyone.
As a modern player I've stopped having expectations about new sets a while ago (it's much worse than Commander, believe me) - but if the new basics are pretty (and not contaminated with pylons all over again) I'm going to be playing in more drafts than I usually do and maybe even open the packs I win at at them (which I haven't done since KtK).
It's not just you, far from it. There are a lot of people who expected the fetchlands in this block (Whether that was justified or not is an entirely different debate) but you seriously overstate the number of those people. The majority of people who buy Magic product probably don't even care about fetchlands, or lands in general. You are just a very loud minority, don't act like you talk for everyone.
You're underestimating the number of cards the enfranchised audience buys. There is a reason why KtK is the best selling set of all time and why Born of the Gods didn't do very well: Because the former contained numerous very good non-decaying cards while the latter contained hardly any.
Here an idea for new lands representing Eldrazi destruction
New land
land - basic A basic B
New land enter the battlefield with 3 COUNTER_NAME on it
tap add 1 to your mana pool
Whenever New land is tapped for colored mana remove a COUNTER_NAME from New land if there is no COUNTER_NAME
on New land sacrifice it the put a land token name Desolated land with "tap add 1 to your mana pool" on the
battlefield tapped.
Here an idea for new lands representing Eldrazi destruction
New land
land - basic A basic B
New land enter the battlefield with 3 COUNTER_NAME on it
tap add 1 to your mana pool
Whenever New land is tapped for colored mana remove a COUNTER_NAME from New land if there is no COUNTER_NAME
on New land sacrifice it the put a land token name Desolated land with "tap add 1 to your mana pool" on the
battlefield tapped.
Hmm, it's probably nothing, and just MaRo's poor wording, but he doesn't actually say that the enemy fetches aren't getting reprinted. He just says there's a rare land cycle that isn't fetches.
If it isn't poor wording... the feel bads, man. The feel bads.
Disclaimer, I don't think enemy fetches will be in BFZ anymore. Personal speculation is now first set in next block when KTK/FRF bug out, OR in the enemy EDH decks (which will make the UR one obnoxiously hard to get).
To me, I think I've just about had it with the way this company does business.
a) Talk about a new design mantra of equal land fixing in blocks.
b) Abandon said philosophy 1 block later.
c) Tell absolutely no one outside your R&D department.
d) Fate releases, no fetches, say nothing.
e) Dragons releases...still not there. Kinda odd, must be BFZ. Say nothing.
f) ORI releases. People expect it to 'go out with a bang'. Nope, pain lands, decent rares, abysmal mythics.
g) After 8 months of fans left in the dark, casually mention the enemy fetches are not coming with BFZ.
I have never seen a company more out of tune with their fanbase. More, I have never seen a company that is willing to forego sales and good will by allowing a secondary market to basically commandeer the game's barrier to entry through price fixing by a single entity that not only screws players with buyouts, wild price swings, and unexplainable price gouging (really? a commander card no one remembers from rise of the eldrazi is $18? because it's so hard to find? because every player wants one? really?), but they also practically run your damn tournaments.
I mean, seriously - who runs a company like this? My wife runs her own business. If she's getting a run on a specific product, guess what? She makes more of it. It's popular. That's common sense. Someone buying her stuff and reselling it on ebay as a 'rare treasure' at triple the price doesn't make her one red cent, so what good is it for her to hold back? So some other lady makes money on it? Who the hell does that?
Then there's the collectors and speculators. Pandering to those people is a special kind of dumb that has created this bizarre sense of reverse entitlement between the haves and have nots. People want to play the game, but certain sacred cows can't be touched, or else the collectors! What will become of them? They paid entirely too much for a piece of carboard that could be reprinted at any time, but you won't reprint it except in limited run sets at mythic, so the price might cool gradually over 5-8 years? Are you kidding me? A company is actually willing to lock a majority of their players out of the game unless they pay a month's rent to a third party? They're actually willing to adopt a policy that allows people that should otherwise have no expectation of the stability of their collection's value to keep that number they like rather than reprint staple cards into oblivion while boosting their own sales in the process? And that makes sense to these people?
And after all of this, the gall, the absolute audacity of that same company to set out an expectation (one they are not blind to or unaware of) to their fans, an expectation they themselves created, and to not communicate or clarify to that same fanbase to give up hope or to change that expectation in any way for 8 freakin' months is just a slap in the face.
I have my enemy fetches. This isn't butthurt that I can't have what I want. This is yet another example of how poorly this company is run. Stay in touch with your fans. They're the ones buying the product. Commander gave them a new revenue stream, they exploited it. Modern is giving them another one, and they actually seem to be actively and stubbornly refusing to make the format accessible. And you guys think this new block rotation cycle is going to make things better? You're crazy. 2 blocks sets with 75% draft garbage, 25% of cards you'll never see the end of until rotation, of which 2% will find homes in eternal formats and the remainder will lose it's value in less time it took before. But, hey, Wizard's already knew that. 2 cmc mythic staples will come and go, $40 at prerelease, $3 at rotation, but you'll keep buying them because it won at an SCG open last week, it must be good. And as long as 'we screwed you guys and didn't tell you for months, but hey! full art lands, you're gonna buy it anyway!' is mantra, you know exactly what Wizards thinks of my opinion.
A P.S.A. to all players mad salty that their fetches aren't being reprinted.
Let's be frank.
Wizards COULD NOT print fetches in BFZ.
Now, you may ask "Why?"
Because Wizards doesn't want another RTR.
Wizards reprinted Shocks in RTR and made them Ravnica's "Thing".
You see, the thing with returning to a character or setting is that you have to decide what you want that character/setting to be about. What their "Thing" is.
When that happens, every time you return to that setting or character, you need that thing. (It's like Turning into a creature for Gideon, Sarkhan having synergy with dragons.)
Once you decide that thing, it is practically locked to the Character or setting: It can't get out, and it stays there (With the smallest of exceptions)
Wizards is not printing fetches in BFZ for the good of the game. Do you know when the next time we return to Zendikar is? Probably not for at least another 5 years, especially if they plan to wrap up Zendikar's main story. Waiting another year or two to reprint them means that we will not see Fetches become Zendikar's thing, and therefore have an overall greater chance of seeing them reprinted.
If you want to see fetches more often, you should be happy about this announcement.
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I agree. At least fetching a scryland would be pretty nice as have interaction with other land abilities like Valakut/Islandwalk etc. IMO Scrylands were perhaps one of the worse lands to print at rare they have ever made. It reeked of rarity creep. Seriously, Standard has a very low power level despite having fetches. They are just fetching basic lands. Once this standard rotates, Scrylands will be forgotten. No format aside from kitchen table will want them due to their slowness.
Like most people I am irked that there is no fetches printed. Yet I remain hopeful that Wizards is making something special for these cycle of dual lands. They really can't... burn us again. Can they....?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Thank goodness this thread turned from dissing WOTC for not having the enemy fetchlands, to speculation of the BFZ dual lands.
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
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Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I'd have made them Legendary, called them Temple of Kruphix, Temple of Ephara, etc. and had them either have Basic Land types or have a way to come into play untapped, or what have you. Although having them come into play tapped and still have Basic Land types without being Legendary still wouldn't be too broken either.
Regardless, beauty/theme > everything else tbh
I'd love to see these new BFZ lands have Landfall. Literally Zendikar coming alive to defeat the Eldrazi.
Zendikar Land
Land
ETB Tapped
Landfall - Untap Zendikar Land.
Tap: Add U or B to your mana pool.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
There is always the Nimbus Maze cycle as well, but they are very similar to buddy lands.
One can really hope for a finish to the Horizon Canopy cycle, but that is nearly 100% to never happen in my opinion.
Stop crying about fetches and ranting about wizards killing a game that has never been healthier and play it or don't.
New land
land - basic A basic B
New land enter the battlefield with 3 COUNTER_NAME on it
Whenever New land is tapped for mana remove a COUNTER_NAME from New land if there is no COUNTER_NAME
on New land sacrifice it the put a land token name Desolated land with "tap add 1 to your mana pool" on the
battlefield.
River of Tears is a 20 card cycle and greatly favors some color combos over others.
Nimbus Maze cycle is just terrible.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Don't remember the source, but on one of the official Tumblrs it was stated that land tokens wouldn't be a thing. This design would work, though:
Zendikar Sea
Land - Island Swamp
(t: Add U or B to your mana pool.)
Whenever Zendikar Sea is tapped for colored mana, put a ruin counter on it.
As long as Zendikar Sea has three or more ruin counters on it, it loses all basic land types and has "t: Add 1 to your mana pool."
But what I really can't understand is these people who say 'oh, they're just lands, how can anyone get excited over lands?' Lands are the coolest cards, especially the old ones. Who doesn't want to go to the Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, or to an Arid Mesa, or whatever? They're awesome.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
We haven't seen any of the replacement mechanics. What if one of them is cooler?
We haven't seen the new dual cycle. What if they're playable?
We haven't seen the art on the new Zendikar lands. What if they look good?
We haven't seen the cards yet. What if there are Modern playable cards in it?
TL;DR claiming you aren't going to buy any of BFZ when he have seen literally zero cards is dumb. Once the spoiler comes out and you don't see anything you want in there, then by all means don't buy any. But claiming you won't when less than 1% of the set is spoiled is a great way to look silly.
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Welcome to MTGS.
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It's not just you, far from it. There are a lot of people who expected the fetchlands in this block (Whether that was justified or not is an entirely different debate) but you seriously overstate the number of those people. The majority of people who buy Magic product probably don't even care about fetchlands, or lands in general. You are just a very loud minority, don't act like you talk for everyone.
You're underestimating the number of cards the enfranchised audience buys. There is a reason why KtK is the best selling set of all time and why Born of the Gods didn't do very well: Because the former contained numerous very good non-decaying cards while the latter contained hardly any.
New land
land - basic A basic B
New land enter the battlefield with 3 COUNTER_NAME on it
tap add 1 to your mana pool
Whenever New land is tapped for colored mana remove a COUNTER_NAME from New land if there is no COUNTER_NAME
on New land sacrifice it the put a land token name Desolated land with "tap add 1 to your mana pool" on the
battlefield tapped.
That's still way too good.
If it isn't poor wording... the feel bads, man. The feel bads.
Disclaimer, I don't think enemy fetches will be in BFZ anymore. Personal speculation is now first set in next block when KTK/FRF bug out, OR in the enemy EDH decks (which will make the UR one obnoxiously hard to get).
a) Talk about a new design mantra of equal land fixing in blocks.
b) Abandon said philosophy 1 block later.
c) Tell absolutely no one outside your R&D department.
d) Fate releases, no fetches, say nothing.
e) Dragons releases...still not there. Kinda odd, must be BFZ. Say nothing.
f) ORI releases. People expect it to 'go out with a bang'. Nope, pain lands, decent rares, abysmal mythics.
g) After 8 months of fans left in the dark, casually mention the enemy fetches are not coming with BFZ.
I have never seen a company more out of tune with their fanbase. More, I have never seen a company that is willing to forego sales and good will by allowing a secondary market to basically commandeer the game's barrier to entry through price fixing by a single entity that not only screws players with buyouts, wild price swings, and unexplainable price gouging (really? a commander card no one remembers from rise of the eldrazi is $18? because it's so hard to find? because every player wants one? really?), but they also practically run your damn tournaments.
I mean, seriously - who runs a company like this? My wife runs her own business. If she's getting a run on a specific product, guess what? She makes more of it. It's popular. That's common sense. Someone buying her stuff and reselling it on ebay as a 'rare treasure' at triple the price doesn't make her one red cent, so what good is it for her to hold back? So some other lady makes money on it? Who the hell does that?
Then there's the collectors and speculators. Pandering to those people is a special kind of dumb that has created this bizarre sense of reverse entitlement between the haves and have nots. People want to play the game, but certain sacred cows can't be touched, or else the collectors! What will become of them? They paid entirely too much for a piece of carboard that could be reprinted at any time, but you won't reprint it except in limited run sets at mythic, so the price might cool gradually over 5-8 years? Are you kidding me? A company is actually willing to lock a majority of their players out of the game unless they pay a month's rent to a third party? They're actually willing to adopt a policy that allows people that should otherwise have no expectation of the stability of their collection's value to keep that number they like rather than reprint staple cards into oblivion while boosting their own sales in the process? And that makes sense to these people?
And after all of this, the gall, the absolute audacity of that same company to set out an expectation (one they are not blind to or unaware of) to their fans, an expectation they themselves created, and to not communicate or clarify to that same fanbase to give up hope or to change that expectation in any way for 8 freakin' months is just a slap in the face.
I have my enemy fetches. This isn't butthurt that I can't have what I want. This is yet another example of how poorly this company is run. Stay in touch with your fans. They're the ones buying the product. Commander gave them a new revenue stream, they exploited it. Modern is giving them another one, and they actually seem to be actively and stubbornly refusing to make the format accessible. And you guys think this new block rotation cycle is going to make things better? You're crazy. 2 blocks sets with 75% draft garbage, 25% of cards you'll never see the end of until rotation, of which 2% will find homes in eternal formats and the remainder will lose it's value in less time it took before. But, hey, Wizard's already knew that. 2 cmc mythic staples will come and go, $40 at prerelease, $3 at rotation, but you'll keep buying them because it won at an SCG open last week, it must be good. And as long as 'we screwed you guys and didn't tell you for months, but hey! full art lands, you're gonna buy it anyway!' is mantra, you know exactly what Wizards thinks of my opinion.
Sorry to rant, but this is ridiculous.
Let's be frank.
Wizards COULD NOT print fetches in BFZ.
Now, you may ask "Why?"
Because Wizards doesn't want another RTR.
Wizards reprinted Shocks in RTR and made them Ravnica's "Thing".
You see, the thing with returning to a character or setting is that you have to decide what you want that character/setting to be about. What their "Thing" is.
When that happens, every time you return to that setting or character, you need that thing. (It's like Turning into a creature for Gideon, Sarkhan having synergy with dragons.)
Once you decide that thing, it is practically locked to the Character or setting: It can't get out, and it stays there (With the smallest of exceptions)
Wizards is not printing fetches in BFZ for the good of the game. Do you know when the next time we return to Zendikar is? Probably not for at least another 5 years, especially if they plan to wrap up Zendikar's main story. Waiting another year or two to reprint them means that we will not see Fetches become Zendikar's thing, and therefore have an overall greater chance of seeing them reprinted.
If you want to see fetches more often, you should be happy about this announcement.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
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