I would love to get a set of all the enemy fetches for my cube but I am not sure if its a good idea to have them in the commander products.
There would be a lot of shells of the Izzet and Simic decks laying around card shops on day one unless they are marked way up (which they would be) and eBayers would be out in force snatching them all up in Targets and Walmarts.
Newer and more casual players (who are not the same) do not care about lands
Enfranchised players care about lands and will usually go to impressive lengths to get them
Putting expensive landbases in precons is self-defeating: people snacthing them up in large quantities and a good portion of destined for the secondary market means the target audience for these would nit get them
People really ought to temper their expectations if they really believe we could see the Zendikar fetches in these
We are currently playing with a set that has the most absurd value lands we've seen in a long time (if ever): you want fetches, go get some BFZ packs or draft
Yea, if the full art lands in BFZ drove greedy players to go out day one and buy every fatpack they could from all the big box stores in their city, then enemy fetches would have people stalking distributors the week before release. It would also do very little to change the price and availability of those fetches. After a month or two they would be back up in price because there is very little incentive for people to sell them cheap (it is proven that people will spend a chunk of change on them), and secondary products do not appreciably increase supply enough.
Newer and more casual players (who are not the same) do not care about lands
Enfranchised players care about lands and will usually go to impressive lengths to get them
Putting expensive landbases in precons is self-defeating: people snacthing them up in large quantities and a good portion of destined for the secondary market means the target audience for these would nit get them
People really ought to temper their expectations if they really believe we could see the Zendikar fetches in these
We are currently playing with a set that has the most absurd value lands we've seen in a long time (if ever): you want fetches, go get some BFZ packs or draft
Newer and more casual players (who are not the same) do not care about lands
Enfranchised players care about lands and will usually go to impressive lengths to get them
Putting expensive landbases in precons is self-defeating: people snacthing them up in large quantities and a good portion of destined for the secondary market means the target audience for these would nit get them
People really ought to temper their expectations if they really believe we could see the Zendikar fetches in these
We are currently playing with a set that has the most absurd value lands we've seen in a long time (if ever): you want fetches, go get some BFZ packs or draft
How to get fetches from BFZ packs?
Be obscenely lucky.
It's not a very good game plan.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I just hope the new commander decks are on par with the 2014 release. One should never underestimate wizard's propensity for taking a really visionary casual product and watering it down each successive generation. The BFZ event deck was a pleasant deviation from this trend.
I think the fact that we haven't seen spoilers may actually suggest we'll see the enemy fetches. Wizards didn't want 10 fetches in standard, and didn't want to cannibalize on the hype from expeditions, and could have seen this as a way to get more fetches in circulation but had to wait to announce it until the hype died down, and not make it so that modern players felt that they NEEDED to buy this product to get lands, while still increasing supply.
I think the fact that we haven't seen spoilers may actually suggest we'll see the enemy fetches.
I think I need a little more explanation on this massive leap in logic here.
There is no incentive for them to print Fetches in this set. They will sell insanely well with or without them. They are 2 color decks that shouldn't need much fixing at all.
The argument that they'll use fetches to sell packs of a different block down the road is a fairly strong one, but not strong enough to categorically rule them out for C15.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
The argument that they'll use fetches to sell packs of a different block down the road is a fairly strong one, but not strong enough to categorically rule them out for C15.
Of course. But I'm also willing to bet that aren't going to blow their reprint load on lands that will jack up the prices on these AND not provide much of anything for the deck. They've put single cards in these that screwed with pricing, but those were Legacy-only at the time. Add $30-$80 fetch lands to the mix and you all assure that the intended target will be missed.
I think the fact that we haven't seen spoilers may actually suggest we'll see the enemy fetches.
I think I need a little more explanation on this massive leap in logic here.
There is no incentive for them to print Fetches in this set. They will sell insanely well with or without them. They are 2 color decks that shouldn't need much fixing at all.
I thought it was fairly intuitive, here it is laid out:
We usually have spoilers by now, but we haven't seen any.
There's only weak logic from WoTC saying why we don't have them
Enemy fetches are getting really expensive for Modern
We returned to Zendikar, and Wizards knew we were expecting Enemy fetches
-> However: They didn't want 10 fetches in standard, -and- They wanted the expeditions to be a big deal
They were doing a enemy colors commander set
This was an additional opportunity to print the enemy fetches
-> However: announcing their existence early might decrease the hype for the expeditions (and thus BFZ)
-> Therefore: Printing them in the commander decks would increase supply, but they would have to delay the announcement as long as possible to avoid cannibalizing hype from BFZ and expeditions.
hence the reasoning - if they were going to print the enemy fetches in the commander product, they would necessarily need to avoid spoiling that fact as long as possible (which they appear to be doing). This doesn't mean that they are for sure in, just that *if* they were going to be in, this is what WoTC would be doing.
I think the fact that we haven't seen spoilers may actually suggest we'll see the enemy fetches.
I think I need a little more explanation on this massive leap in logic here.
There is no incentive for them to print Fetches in this set. They will sell insanely well with or without them. They are 2 color decks that shouldn't need much fixing at all.
I thought it was fairly intuitive, here it is laid out:
We usually have spoilers by now, but we haven't seen any.
There's only weak logic from WoTC saying why we don't have them
Enemy fetches are getting really expensive for Modern
We returned to Zendikar, and Wizards knew we were expecting Enemy fetches
-> However: They didn't want 10 fetches in standard, -and- They wanted the expeditions to be a big deal
They were doing a enemy colors commander set
This was an additional opportunity to print the enemy fetches
-> However: announcing their existence early might decrease the hype for the expeditions (and thus BFZ)
-> Therefore: Printing them in the commander decks would increase supply, but they would have to delay the announcement as long as possible to avoid cannibalizing hype from BFZ and expeditions.
hence the reasoning - if they were going to print the enemy fetches in the commander product, they would necessarily need to avoid spoiling that fact as long as possible (which they appear to be doing). This doesn't mean that they are for sure in, just that *if* they were going to be in, this is what WoTC would be doing.
That still doesn't make a lot of sense. I am hoping they are in C15 as well, but your logic doesn't fall in line with how they spoiled cards from Commander sets in the past. Last year, for example, they spoiled Teferi and Ghoulcaller Gisa and then spoiled the rest of the cards the week before the release. The year prior they spoiled Jeleva and another general (I forget which).
Even if they decided to start spoilers early, they definitely would not have been the fetches. They would have been 1 or 2 of the generals and maybe a new card or two. They would wait to reveal the fetches until the official start of spoiler week anyway.
The decision not to start revealing any cards is almost 100% guaranteed to have nothing to do with the fetches, even with the extremely slim change that they are in the set.
Yeah, at this point I feel like the likely cause for a delay is that they purely desired to draw all hype to BFZ. My other suspicion is that they're completely underwhelmed with their own project, so they're relying on pure secrecy to hype it
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-This signature intentionally left blank to increase general intrigue and mystery-
Newer and more casual players (who are not the same) do not care about lands
Enfranchised players care about lands and will usually go to impressive lengths to get them
Putting expensive landbases in precons is self-defeating: people snacthing them up in large quantities and a good portion of destined for the secondary market means the target audience for these would nit get them
People really ought to temper their expectations if they really believe we could see the Zendikar fetches in these
We are currently playing with a set that has the most absurd value lands we've seen in a long time (if ever): you want fetches, go get some BFZ packs or draft
Your first point and your third point I can get behind. "if you want fetches, go get some BFZ packs" is preposterous, though. Anybody complaining about fetches not being reprinted is complaining indirectly about Modern being affordable. If $300+ for a playset of Scalding Tarns is too much, thousands of dollars thrown at cases of BfZ with hopes of randomly opening them is way too much. Might as well tell people to go play the lottery.
If you want enemy fetches, you buy them from dealers at market prices. That hasn't changed. People were hoping it would, but it hasn't. So they're hoping it's in C15, because at least that makes sense, it wouldn't screw up Standard. Though, yeah, a lot of newer players would open them and be confused/disinterested.
My other suspicion is that they're completely underwhelmed with their own project, so they're relying on pure secrecy to hype it
I hope this isn't the case.
I have absolutely 0 expectation that they'll reprint enemy fetches in commander (if they do anything to keep fetches out of standard it'll be to put them in modern masters to get people to buy those overpriced boosters.) but I love enemy and wedge colors so this wait is killing me. I want to see if my Animar or Narset get any new toys to play with or even my Marchesa deck that's in the process of getting put together. Betcha I get the R/U deck lol.
Them reprinting the fetches can surely only have positive results for magic and the community?
I'm all for having expensive "epic" spells like liliana and cryptic command, but the lands are the most basic requirement for deckbuilding. They should be $20 at most, not $100 as they were recently. It's a simple supply vs demand issue and it needs to be re-balanced.
I'm all for fetchlands being reprinted. Get 'em in circulation!
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Printing fetches in commander won't get enough in circulation to drive prices down. They need to print them in a large print run set (like they did with friendly color fetches in khans), not in a set like commander with a limited print run.
Printing fetches in commander won't get enough in circulation to drive prices down. They need to print them in a large print run set (like they did with friendly color fetches in khans), not in a set like commander with a limited print run.
Well, if they do, that means the best time to preorder is before the spoiler hits and we actually see the card in the deck. Otherwise it's going to be super happy wallet eating fun time.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Even if they were to put enemy fetches into these decks, the spoilers are only for the 55 new cards anyways. They would probably even spend a day before releasing the full decklists on an Arcana showing the new alternate art for some cards.
Then when the lists are revealed and they show the fetches in the decklists, our little corner of the internet can explode with all the people saying "I KNEW IT!!!".
Honestly, I am more interested in what the new Command Tower/Opal Palace is going to be.
Crystal Keep
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T, Put a blood counter on Crystal Keep: Add 2 to your mana pool and lose two life for each blood counter on Crystal Keep. This mana may only be used to cast your commander.
Crystal Keep (Take #23)
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T, Pay 2 life: Put a blood counter on Crystal Keep.
T, Remove X blood counters from Crystal Keep: Add X mana to your mana pool, where X is twice the number of counters removed this way. This mana may only be use to cast your commander.
Honestly, I am more interested in what the new Command Tower/Opal Palace is going to be.
Crystal Keep
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T, Pay X life: Add X colorless mana to your mana pool. This mana may only be used to cast your commander.
(Edit: Just realized that this would be good with eldrazi commanders, but the idea was to let you pay the commander tax with life.)
I like the idea, but agree that it would be too easy/powerful for some commanders, especially colorless/eldrazi commanders.. maybe restrict the mana so it can only be used to pay for the commander tax?
Even if they were to put enemy fetches into these decks, the spoilers are only for the 55 new cards anyways. They would probably even spend a day before releasing the full decklists on an Arcana showing the new alternate art for some cards.
Then when the lists are revealed and they show the fetches in the decklists, our little corner of the internet can explode with all the people saying "I KNEW IT!!!".
Honestly, I am more interested in what the new Command Tower/Opal Palace is going to be.
Crystal Keep
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T, Pay X life: Add X colorless mana to your mana pool. This mana may only be used to cast your commander.
(Edit: Just realized that this would be good with eldrazi commanders, but the idea was to let you pay the commander tax with life.)
This land would be perfect with flavour text that read something like: "The great sage Bethmo stored all magic knowledge in the Crystal Keep for quick retrieval, but modernity overcame the keep's defenses."
But yes, that would seem like a good land idea overall. A little worried about turn 1 Kozilek though, heh.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
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There would be a lot of shells of the Izzet and Simic decks laying around card shops on day one unless they are marked way up (which they would be) and eBayers would be out in force snatching them all up in Targets and Walmarts.
Enfranchised players care about lands and will usually go to impressive lengths to get them
Putting expensive landbases in precons is self-defeating: people snacthing them up in large quantities and a good portion of destined for the secondary market means the target audience for these would nit get them
People really ought to temper their expectations if they really believe we could see the Zendikar fetches in these
We are currently playing with a set that has the most absurd value lands we've seen in a long time (if ever): you want fetches, go get some BFZ packs or draft
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
How to get fetches from BFZ packs?
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
Be obscenely lucky.
It's not a very good game plan.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
There is no incentive for them to print Fetches in this set. They will sell insanely well with or without them. They are 2 color decks that shouldn't need much fixing at all.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Of course. But I'm also willing to bet that aren't going to blow their reprint load on lands that will jack up the prices on these AND not provide much of anything for the deck. They've put single cards in these that screwed with pricing, but those were Legacy-only at the time. Add $30-$80 fetch lands to the mix and you all assure that the intended target will be missed.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I thought it was fairly intuitive, here it is laid out:
We usually have spoilers by now, but we haven't seen any.
There's only weak logic from WoTC saying why we don't have them
Enemy fetches are getting really expensive for Modern
We returned to Zendikar, and Wizards knew we were expecting Enemy fetches
-> However: They didn't want 10 fetches in standard, -and- They wanted the expeditions to be a big deal
They were doing a enemy colors commander set
This was an additional opportunity to print the enemy fetches
-> However: announcing their existence early might decrease the hype for the expeditions (and thus BFZ)
-> Therefore: Printing them in the commander decks would increase supply, but they would have to delay the announcement as long as possible to avoid cannibalizing hype from BFZ and expeditions.
hence the reasoning - if they were going to print the enemy fetches in the commander product, they would necessarily need to avoid spoiling that fact as long as possible (which they appear to be doing). This doesn't mean that they are for sure in, just that *if* they were going to be in, this is what WoTC would be doing.
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
That still doesn't make a lot of sense. I am hoping they are in C15 as well, but your logic doesn't fall in line with how they spoiled cards from Commander sets in the past. Last year, for example, they spoiled Teferi and Ghoulcaller Gisa and then spoiled the rest of the cards the week before the release. The year prior they spoiled Jeleva and another general (I forget which).
Even if they decided to start spoilers early, they definitely would not have been the fetches. They would have been 1 or 2 of the generals and maybe a new card or two. They would wait to reveal the fetches until the official start of spoiler week anyway.
The decision not to start revealing any cards is almost 100% guaranteed to have nothing to do with the fetches, even with the extremely slim change that they are in the set.
Assuming there are no other cards in C15
Jund
Kiki Chord
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Pauper:
Kuldotha Jeskai
This is not what they pay their marketing people to do.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I'd pay to see that. Maybe you've happened across a really weird business model for earning cash on the side haha
Your first point and your third point I can get behind. "if you want fetches, go get some BFZ packs" is preposterous, though. Anybody complaining about fetches not being reprinted is complaining indirectly about Modern being affordable. If $300+ for a playset of Scalding Tarns is too much, thousands of dollars thrown at cases of BfZ with hopes of randomly opening them is way too much. Might as well tell people to go play the lottery.
If you want enemy fetches, you buy them from dealers at market prices. That hasn't changed. People were hoping it would, but it hasn't. So they're hoping it's in C15, because at least that makes sense, it wouldn't screw up Standard. Though, yeah, a lot of newer players would open them and be confused/disinterested.
It's probably a longshot, but it would be nice.
I hope this isn't the case.
I have absolutely 0 expectation that they'll reprint enemy fetches in commander (if they do anything to keep fetches out of standard it'll be to put them in modern masters to get people to buy those overpriced boosters.) but I love enemy and wedge colors so this wait is killing me. I want to see if my Animar or Narset get any new toys to play with or even my Marchesa deck that's in the process of getting put together. Betcha I get the R/U deck lol.
I'm all for having expensive "epic" spells like liliana and cryptic command, but the lands are the most basic requirement for deckbuilding. They should be $20 at most, not $100 as they were recently. It's a simple supply vs demand issue and it needs to be re-balanced.
I'm all for fetchlands being reprinted. Get 'em in circulation!
Even the fakers apparently don't care.
I'll both shocked and happy if any this set of decks includes any nice land reprints.
Well, if they do, that means the best time to preorder is before the spoiler hits and we actually see the card in the deck. Otherwise it's going to be super happy wallet eating fun time.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Then when the lists are revealed and they show the fetches in the decklists, our little corner of the internet can explode with all the people saying "I KNEW IT!!!".
Honestly, I am more interested in what the new Command Tower/Opal Palace is going to be.
Crystal Keep
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T, Put a blood counter on Crystal Keep: Add 2 to your mana pool and lose two life for each blood counter on Crystal Keep. This mana may only be used to cast your commander.
Crystal Keep (Take #23)
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T, Pay 2 life: Put a blood counter on Crystal Keep.
T, Remove X blood counters from Crystal Keep: Add X mana to your mana pool, where X is twice the number of counters removed this way. This mana may only be use to cast your commander.
DracoBall: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/homebrew-variant-formats/598529-dracoball-updated-3-24-15
Fantastic Fours: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/homebrew-variant-formats/603605-fantastic-fours
I like the idea, but agree that it would be too easy/powerful for some commanders, especially colorless/eldrazi commanders.. maybe restrict the mana so it can only be used to pay for the commander tax?
This land would be perfect with flavour text that read something like: "The great sage Bethmo stored all magic knowledge in the Crystal Keep for quick retrieval, but modernity overcame the keep's defenses."
But yes, that would seem like a good land idea overall. A little worried about turn 1 Kozilek though, heh.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.