Its an interesting equipment. I question it being a rare though considering its a build around strategy that contributes nothing on its own. Its interesting I guess.
Considering similar effects have been printed at common... yeah, no idea. Compare this to Ethereal Armor and Ancestral Mask. Those are enchantments that go away when the creature dies and relies on colored mana, and don't count non-aura enchantments. Armor gives first strike and counts itself, and Mask is useless on its own but the boost is pretty big once it rolls. Helm just sort of doesn't make sense. Is there a pillowfort deck that wants this?
You guys get that, as an equipment, this can be moved to any creature you want, right? It's cheap to play, cheap to equip and doesn't take much to be completely bonkers. That seems appropriate for a rare equipment to me.
I suspect we DO get that. And when I pay 1 for a card, and pay 1 to move it around I want it to do something. This thing doesn't do anything without at least 1 other card in play - 2 in most cases. 3 card synergies should win me games - not give a dude +1/+1.
Cute and flavorful at uncommon. Annoying AF at rare.
Stop being silly. Lashwrithe does nothing by itself too (because you have to control swamps)! The game is all about constructing decks. Caring about your enchantments is suddenly "doing nothing?" That new mythic artifact that doubles your lifegain and card draw does nothing too. Hardened Scales does nothing too.
Cute and flavorful at uncommon. Annoying AF at rare.
Stop being silly. Lashwrithe does nothing by itself too (because you have to control swamps)! The game is all about constructing decks. Caring about your enchantments is suddenly "doing nothing?" That new mythic artifact that doubles your lifegain and card draw does nothing too. Hardened Scales does nothing too.
On that same note, can it not be said that all Equipment does nothing by itself (with the possible exception of living weapon equipment when they etb).. that doesn't make all Equipment bad.
That is not the equipment I wanted for Relic Seeker.
Yeah, this. As a control player, I've got my eye out for potentially broken Relic Seeker interactions that I'll need to watch out for, but this certainly is not inspiring fear in me.
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Cute and flavorful at uncommon. Annoying AF at rare.
Stop being silly. Lashwrithe does nothing by itself too (because you have to control swamps)! The game is all about constructing decks. Caring about your enchantments is suddenly "doing nothing?" That new mythic artifact that doubles your lifegain and card draw does nothing too. Hardened Scales does nothing too.
Except you have to control lands to do anything, and lands are really hard to destroy. Enchantments, on the other hand, can be killed much more easily. In an enchantment deck, you want stuff that cares about enchantments, but you also want as many of those as possible to be enchantments themselves. If you play this turn 1, it does nothing. On turn 2, it can give +1/+1 if you played a 1 cmc enchantment. You need at least 2 enchants out for this to not be useless, and it is only good if you have 3+. Keep in mind that if it gave a blank +3/+3 and not scaling, it would be pretty good, but 8f it gave +2/+2 it would be unplayable. How often do you have three enchantments and an equipment, and at least one of those enchants needs to be a creature. This will be playable in some EDH decks probably, but standard needs a lot more to have an enchantment deck, and this would only be fringe playable I legen in that deck
I like this card but i woudn't call it a rare worthy card
IMO Ethereal Armor should have been rare or uncommon. Plus you can move this around if you want. I don't wanna pull it but I can see how broken it can be....then Theros will rotate out.
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Cute and flavorful at uncommon. Annoying AF at rare.
Stop being silly. Lashwrithe does nothing by itself too (because you have to control swamps)! The game is all about constructing decks. Caring about your enchantments is suddenly "doing nothing?" That new mythic artifact that doubles your lifegain and card draw does nothing too. Hardened Scales does nothing too.
Sorry Sleeper Agent, you really can't compare Lashwrithe and Helmet of the Gods. The power level AND what the two cards are designed to do are leagues apart. Let's evaluate both cards individually, shall we?
Lashwrithe
-Enters the battlefield with a germ token creature already attached to it.
-Is powered by Swamps, which means you can (but aren't obligated to) spend four Swamps to cast the artifact. You also don't have to spend any more mana to cast other spells to power it, not like you would to power Helmet of the Gods when using mana to cast enchantment spells. Also, you're practically powering it for free every time you play a Swamp (because playing lands doesn't count as casted spells).
-You can pay life to equip it to another creature instead of paying mana (again, allowing you to use the mana you'd normally use to equip the artifact to a creature to cast other spells instead).
-Basically you're using ONE card to get a 4/4 (assuming you're using 4 Swamps to cast the artifact spell) that can potentially grow bigger each turn at NO cost.
Helmet of the Gods
-Does NOT enter the battlefield with a creature already attached to it.
-Is powered by enchantments, meaning you'd have to spend mana to cast other enchantments in order to power it, instead of being able to play (at the VERY LEAST) 1 land per turn (hopefully a Swamp) for free like you would with Lashwrithe.
-You have to pay mana to equip, as opposed to being able to pay with life and/or mana like Lashwrithe is able to.
-You Have to have THREE cards on the battlefield to enable the artifact to work (a creature, Helmet of the Gods, and at least one enchantment.
Both are rare artifacts, but one CLEARLY outclasses the other one. Now, as far as why Hardened Scales hasn't been played competitively and why Alhammarret's Archive may not see competitive play, I'd recommend looking up how other players have evaluated these cards. I personally agree with their assessments that Hardened Scales is primarily a "do nothing card" as well.
Keep in mind that if it gave a blank +3/+3 and not scaling, it would be pretty good, but 8f it gave +2/+2 it would be unplayable.
Really? I don't think this card will get any play myself, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that a strictly better Bonesplitter wouldn't get slotted into just about every aggro deck around. Maybe even worth consideration in Infect or Affinity. Or maybe I'm just biased because of how much of a bomb Ghostfire Blade was in Limited (which this would also be strictly better than). A flat +3/+3 would be completely absurd.
Keep in mind that if it gave a blank +3/+3 and not scaling, it would be pretty good, but 8f it gave +2/+2 it would be unplayable.
Really? I don't think this card will get any play myself, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that a strictly better Bonesplitter wouldn't get slotted into just about every aggro deck around. Maybe even worth consideration in Infect or Affinity. Or maybe I'm just biased because of how much of a bomb Ghostfire Blade was in Limited (which this would also be strictly better than). A flat +3/+3 would be completely absurd.
I did say it would be pretty good if it was +3/+3, that might be a little underestimating it, a +3/+3 would be really good. It wouldn't be broken though. A +2/+2 probably would be played. Ghostfire Blade is great in limited, but hasn't been even close to competitive constructed play. My real point was that this that the hypothetical +3/+3 would be MUCH better than this (almost strictly better), it's pretty much the best-case scenario, and can't happen until at least t4. Where this is bad is that part of what makes equipment good is that it allows both trading up and surviving board wipes. This doesn't do anything post-wipe if you are playing mostly enchantment creatures, and if you aren't using lots of enchantment creatures, it is hard to have this, multiple enchants, and a body to carry this.
This is meant for RW cheap enchantment creature aggro. Hit'em quick and repeatedly before they can stabalize. Hell this work well in WU aggro/control too.
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Look man, I love Affinity like suburban white girls love Starbucks, and I'm even saying no to that idea. Like Affinity needs MORE things to just steamroll people with.
I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
I really like this, comparing it to ethereal armour isn't fair. Ethereal armor can't be moved from creature to creature, which means it can't be moved as the game develops.
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Considering similar effects have been printed at common... yeah, no idea. Compare this to Ethereal Armor and Ancestral Mask. Those are enchantments that go away when the creature dies and relies on colored mana, and don't count non-aura enchantments. Armor gives first strike and counts itself, and Mask is useless on its own but the boost is pretty big once it rolls. Helm just sort of doesn't make sense. Is there a pillowfort deck that wants this?
I suspect we DO get that. And when I pay 1 for a card, and pay 1 to move it around I want it to do something. This thing doesn't do anything without at least 1 other card in play - 2 in most cases. 3 card synergies should win me games - not give a dude +1/+1.
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Stop being silly. Lashwrithe does nothing by itself too (because you have to control swamps)! The game is all about constructing decks. Caring about your enchantments is suddenly "doing nothing?" That new mythic artifact that doubles your lifegain and card draw does nothing too. Hardened Scales does nothing too.
On that same note, can it not be said that all Equipment does nothing by itself (with the possible exception of living weapon equipment when they etb).. that doesn't make all Equipment bad.
Yeah, this. As a control player, I've got my eye out for potentially broken Relic Seeker interactions that I'll need to watch out for, but this certainly is not inspiring fear in me.
Except you have to control lands to do anything, and lands are really hard to destroy. Enchantments, on the other hand, can be killed much more easily. In an enchantment deck, you want stuff that cares about enchantments, but you also want as many of those as possible to be enchantments themselves. If you play this turn 1, it does nothing. On turn 2, it can give +1/+1 if you played a 1 cmc enchantment. You need at least 2 enchants out for this to not be useless, and it is only good if you have 3+. Keep in mind that if it gave a blank +3/+3 and not scaling, it would be pretty good, but 8f it gave +2/+2 it would be unplayable. How often do you have three enchantments and an equipment, and at least one of those enchants needs to be a creature. This will be playable in some EDH decks probably, but standard needs a lot more to have an enchantment deck, and this would only be fringe playable I legen in that deck
IMO Ethereal Armor should have been rare or uncommon. Plus you can move this around if you want. I don't wanna pull it but I can see how broken it can be....then Theros will rotate out.
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Except, you know, not giving the opponent an easy way to 2-for-1 you. Pathetic, imho, are the people comparing this to Ethereal Armor.
And the same type of person that complains about a set that's about half spoiled. Thumbs up!
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Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsSorry Sleeper Agent, you really can't compare Lashwrithe and Helmet of the Gods. The power level AND what the two cards are designed to do are leagues apart. Let's evaluate both cards individually, shall we?
Lashwrithe
-Enters the battlefield with a germ token creature already attached to it.
-Is powered by Swamps, which means you can (but aren't obligated to) spend four Swamps to cast the artifact. You also don't have to spend any more mana to cast other spells to power it, not like you would to power Helmet of the Gods when using mana to cast enchantment spells. Also, you're practically powering it for free every time you play a Swamp (because playing lands doesn't count as casted spells).
-You can pay life to equip it to another creature instead of paying mana (again, allowing you to use the mana you'd normally use to equip the artifact to a creature to cast other spells instead).
-Basically you're using ONE card to get a 4/4 (assuming you're using 4 Swamps to cast the artifact spell) that can potentially grow bigger each turn at NO cost.
Helmet of the Gods
-Does NOT enter the battlefield with a creature already attached to it.
-Is powered by enchantments, meaning you'd have to spend mana to cast other enchantments in order to power it, instead of being able to play (at the VERY LEAST) 1 land per turn (hopefully a Swamp) for free like you would with Lashwrithe.
-You have to pay mana to equip, as opposed to being able to pay with life and/or mana like Lashwrithe is able to.
-You Have to have THREE cards on the battlefield to enable the artifact to work (a creature, Helmet of the Gods, and at least one enchantment.
Both are rare artifacts, but one CLEARLY outclasses the other one. Now, as far as why Hardened Scales hasn't been played competitively and why Alhammarret's Archive may not see competitive play, I'd recommend looking up how other players have evaluated these cards. I personally agree with their assessments that Hardened Scales is primarily a "do nothing card" as well.
Really? I don't think this card will get any play myself, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that a strictly better Bonesplitter wouldn't get slotted into just about every aggro deck around. Maybe even worth consideration in Infect or Affinity. Or maybe I'm just biased because of how much of a bomb Ghostfire Blade was in Limited (which this would also be strictly better than). A flat +3/+3 would be completely absurd.
I did say it would be pretty good if it was +3/+3, that might be a little underestimating it, a +3/+3 would be really good. It wouldn't be broken though. A +2/+2 probably would be played. Ghostfire Blade is great in limited, but hasn't been even close to competitive constructed play. My real point was that this that the hypothetical +3/+3 would be MUCH better than this (almost strictly better), it's pretty much the best-case scenario, and can't happen until at least t4. Where this is bad is that part of what makes equipment good is that it allows both trading up and surviving board wipes. This doesn't do anything post-wipe if you are playing mostly enchantment creatures, and if you aren't using lots of enchantment creatures, it is hard to have this, multiple enchants, and a body to carry this.
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Look man, I love Affinity like suburban white girls love Starbucks, and I'm even saying no to that idea. Like Affinity needs MORE things to just steamroll people with.
Modern masters 2 already taught us that lesson
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It's also missing the first strike from ethereal. Bogles might possibly make use of it, but probably just gonna be junk rare.