Surviving K. Commands, Electrolyzes and Izzet Staticasters is a much bigger deal then people seem to realize.
So is having 3 power... it's a much better clock then 1 or 2 power, while still threatening to win at any time.
This also completely gets around Night of Soul's Betrayal, which neither Pestermite nor Exarch can do, and that's a card that is popping up in the SB of most black decks. Finally, it's much easier to kill the Soul sister decks with this. They need 3 sister to blank it, which is much more unlikely then the one/two they need for exarch/pestermite.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks: Standard - Rally, Modern - Kikichord, Legacy - Elves
Commmander - Eight-and-a-Half Tails; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; Prime Speaker Zegana; Alesha, Who Smiles at Death; Daxos the Returned; Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest; Patron of the Moonfolk; Animar, Soul of Elements
This could be the thing that tips Twin into a meta dominating stance.
I don't know about all that.
If it were a 3/4 that could tap lands, I would agree with you.
But this can't tap lands, and it still dies to bolt.
Twin decks might flirt with one or two (I will certainly test it in mine),
but it's not likely to be a huge boost to the deck.
Bolt is a shrinking part of the meta though, largely due to lingering souls and huge critters like Tasigur. It's mostly propped up by burn's growth in the meta and it's ability to still hit to the face. And pestermite still dies to bolt, plus Exarch now dies to Rending Volley after sideboard. Not having the ability to tap lands and dying to bolt is big I'll admit, but 3 power and tapping down an opposing creature in a tempo deck can still be pretty influential, especially when you are leaning towards more of a tempo build.
Even if Bolt usage shrank 10%, it would still be the most played card in the format. 5 of the top 10 most played decks in Modern (Grixis Twin, UR Twin, Grixis Delver, Jund, Burn) play it at 4 main deck. And 3 of the top 5 decks that play bolt also play Tasigur/Gurmag Angler. And 4 of those 5 also either play other large creatures or ignore large creatures and win before they become a real threat.
As for Lingering Souls. Abzan has been on the decline for the past several months because people are switching to Jund. And it's primarily because of Bolt, Kolaghan's Command, Dark Confidant and its less painful mana base. Lingering Souls isn't even in the top 50 most played cards in Modern and sees play in only 1 of the top 20 most played decks in Modern.
Surviving K. Commands, Electrolyzes and Izzet Staticasters is a much bigger deal then people seem to realize.
So is having 3 power... it's a much better clock then 1 or 2 power, while still threatening to win at any time.
This also completely gets around Night of Soul's Betrayal, which neither Pestermite nor Exarch can do, and that's a card that is popping up in the SB of most black decks. Finally, it's much easier to kill the Soul sister decks with this. They need 3 sister to blank it, which is much more unlikely then the one/two they need for exarch/pestermite.
These are actually some decent points. I had forgotten about Night of Soul's Betrayal (or Illness in the Ranks, which does something similar for a single mana) and its ability to shut down Twin. The Soul Sisters point is fringe-relevant, but still worth noting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I've seen plenty of games won just with Exarch beat downs. Imagine a creature 3 times as powerful? Your opponent gets 1/3 the time to top deck something and get out of it.
Not being able to tap a land is irrelevant.
As a Twin player I have never lost because of not being able to tap a land. It either didn't matter because they didn't have removal or they had more than one untapped land.
This will be played in Tempo Twin.
This might may possibly see a bit of play in modern temur twin.
but it shines bright in limited representing a fairly imaginable two for 0. Which is just super crazy good.
Not being able to tap a land is irrelevant.
As a Twin player I have never lost because of not being able to tap a land. It either didn't matter because they didn't have removal or they had more than one untapped land.
This will be played in Tempo Twin.
This is literally one of the laziest arguments I have ever heard. Every game where you tapp their last white source, untap and win represents a huge strategic point. Or tapping an urza land to keep off mark or etc etc.
It is unfortunate that you seem to be promoting terrible play for the twin community.
I've seen several comments on possible applications in modern twin, but I haven't seen much discussing the fact this little fellow is 3cc...which makes for a pretty juicy card to find with Collected Company. Also, tapping a relevant attacker is certainly a solid tempo play, but the ability to untap a mana dork and effectively cast a 3/3 for 2 mana is not to be underestimated.
It was my impression that the purpose of Tarmo Twin was to put a greater emphasis on the beatdown plan while still having the looming threat of the combo. A 3/3 for 3 that lets you keep up countermagic and can tap down blockers seems pretty good for the beatdown plan, and it also threatens the combo. It definitely fits into the deck's plan well. The only question is whether the deck has room.
I'd disagree about flying. In a twin deck, you don't need to worry about evasion because "I have ∞ exarchs/mites" is your evasion. Short of an Entangler (or Dueling Grounds or Crawlspace) reprint or Avatar of Hope suddenly being widely played, you won't need flying.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
There are several three color decks sporting blood moon in modern right now, and I play assuming all Temur/Grixis variants have the ability to board it in. This would not at all affect Temur Twin's ability to play under a moon.
When I first heard the name and saw the types, the mental image I got was of a little lizard with fish bits leaping about and wagging its tail like a puppy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Not being able to tap a land is irrelevant.
As a Twin player I have never lost because of not being able to tap a land. It either didn't matter because they didn't have removal or they had more than one untapped land.
This will be played in Tempo Twin.
This is literally one of the laziest arguments I have ever heard. Every game where you tapp their last white source, untap and win represents a huge strategic point. Or tapping an urza land to keep off mark or etc etc.
It is unfortunate that you seem to be promoting terrible play for the twin community.
Terrible play? Gee, I'm sorry for not using my Bounding Krasis to tap your land cause... You know, the card doesn't do that. What terrible play.
And who the heck is Mark?
PS there is no "Twin Community" that is literally one of the dorkiest things I've ever heard.
Not being able to tap a land is irrelevant.
As a Twin player I have never lost because of not being able to tap a land. It either didn't matter because they didn't have removal or they had more than one untapped land.
This will be played in Tempo Twin.
This is literally one of the laziest arguments I have ever heard. Every game where you tapp their last white source, untap and win represents a huge strategic point. Or tapping an urza land to keep off mark or etc etc.
It is unfortunate that you seem to be promoting terrible play for the twin community.
Terrible play? Gee, I'm sorry for not using my Bounding Krasis to tap your land cause... You know, the card doesn't do that. What terrible play.
And who the heck is Mark?
PS there is no "Twin Community" that is literally one of the dorkiest things I've ever heard.
The hell are you talking about, man? I think you should calm down cause you are embarassing yourself in a way that's a bit ridiculous...
First, your comment about the land tapping being irrelevant is literally one of the DUMBEST things I've ever heard. Either you are an absolutely atrocious player or you haven't played this game for more than 2-3 months. For the sake of fairness, I'll assume it's the latter. It's ok to be a novice, but please learn a bit before making comments
About the topic: as a long, long time Twin player, tapping a land is absolutely, extremely crucial because many people play against twin usually leaving just enough mana to use removal on your dude, and tapping it makes them use it immediately. The "immediately" is important, again, because this way you can force them to use their kill spells on creatures that you don't care about (say if you have multiple Pesters/Exarchs, or want to actually kill them with Goyfs) WITHOUT having to put Twin on them. When they run out of cards, then you can combowin.
I'm not saying this card will be bad and I'll try it cause I love the 3/3 body, but not tapping a land is EXTREMELY important.
Oh, and btw, of course there's a "Twin community", just look at the Tier 1 Modern subforum, dude.
Not being able to tap a land is irrelevant.
As a Twin player I have never lost because of not being able to tap a land. It either didn't matter because they didn't have removal or they had more than one untapped land.
This will be played in Tempo Twin.
This is literally one of the laziest arguments I have ever heard. Every game where you tapp their last white source, untap and win represents a huge strategic point. Or tapping an urza land to keep off mark or etc etc.
It is unfortunate that you seem to be promoting terrible play for the twin community.
Terrible play? Gee, I'm sorry for not using my Bounding Krasis to tap your land cause... You know, the card doesn't do that. What terrible play.
And who the heck is Mark?
PS there is no "Twin Community" that is literally one of the dorkiest things I've ever heard.
The hell are you talking about, man? I think you should calm down cause you are embarassing yourself in a way that's a bit ridiculous...
First, your comment about the land tapping being irrelevant is literally one of the DUMBEST things I've ever heard. Either you are an absolutely atrocious player or you haven't played this game for more than 2-3 months. For the sake of fairness, I'll assume it's the latter. It's ok to be a novice, but please learn a bit before making comments
About the topic: as a long, long time Twin player, tapping a land is absolutely, extremely crucial because many people play against twin usually leaving just enough mana to use removal on your dude, and tapping it makes them use it immediately. The "immediately" is important, again, because this way you can force them to use their kill spells on creatures that you don't care about (say if you have multiple Pesters/Exarchs, or want to actually kill them with Goyfs) WITHOUT having to put Twin on them. When they run out of cards, then you can combowin.
I'm not saying this card will be bad and I'll try it cause I love the 3/3 body, but not tapping a land is EXTREMELY important.
Oh, and btw, of course there's a "Twin community", just look at the Tier 1 Modern subforum, dude.
Peace
You're terribly wrong.
I've been playing Splinter Twin combo decks since ROE came out before the world even caught on (pretty much helped invent this deck) so you can not even begin to talk to me about how Twin variants play out.
I have played likely hundreds more games than you with Twin and yes I was fortunate to be able to tap a land to avoid removal or a counterspell a few times, but not enough that it matters more than having a solid p/t for times when you can't combo.
This isn't even up for debate.
Your "twin community" exists but it's just lame to call it that.
You're terribly wrong.
I've been playing Splinter Twin combo decks since ROE came out before the world even caught on (pretty much helped invent this deck) so you can not even begin to talk to me about how Twin variants play out.
I have played likely hundreds more games than you with Twin and yes I was fortunate to be able to tap a land to avoid removal or a counterspell a few times, but not enough that it matters more than having a solid p/t for times when you can't combo.
This isn't even up for debate.
Your "twin community" exists but it's just lame to call it that.
Lmao, then it is even worse, I mean how can a guy who has played twin for so long not understand something as basic as the importance of tapping lands, constraining their mana ang gaining tempo. I mean it's magic 101. Opponents may play leaving, say, 2 mana for Abrupt Decay (making all their spells effectively "cost" 2 more), but some of them may even wait to have 3 mana left so they aren't forced by your tap (smart play at times), giving you a huuuge advantage on tempo, when they are playing 3 mana spells while having 6 lands in play.
Ask any member of this community, or even Dickmann, and ofc learn2play better, it's never too late.
PS: again, i'll be trying 1-2 Krasis in my RUG Twin deck, cause I like the dude still
About the topic: as a long, long time Twin player, tapping a land is absolutely, extremely crucial because many people play against twin usually leaving just enough mana to use removal on your dude, and tapping it makes them use it immediately. The "immediately" is important, again, because this way you can force them to use their kill spells on creatures that you don't care about (say if you have multiple Pesters/Exarchs, or want to actually kill them with Goyfs) WITHOUT having to put Twin on them. When they run out of cards, then you can combowin.
Instead of attempting to pretend one person is better than another or insulting someone, you should lead with this.
If someone is leaving "just enough mana" up against Twin, they're a bad player. It's better to play draw-go than it is to leave your one mana untapped and waiting for Twin to combo off.
edit: To clarify, I'm talking about fast decks like burn vs twin. I typically don't cast anything until your EOT from turn 3 on - which doesn't impact my game much at all since most of the deck is instant speed.
I've never lost to a Twin deck because they tapped down one of my lands. Ever.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
So is having 3 power... it's a much better clock then 1 or 2 power, while still threatening to win at any time.
This also completely gets around Night of Soul's Betrayal, which neither Pestermite nor Exarch can do, and that's a card that is popping up in the SB of most black decks. Finally, it's much easier to kill the Soul sister decks with this. They need 3 sister to blank it, which is much more unlikely then the one/two they need for exarch/pestermite.
Commmander - Eight-and-a-Half Tails; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; Prime Speaker Zegana; Alesha, Who Smiles at Death; Daxos the Returned; Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest; Patron of the Moonfolk; Animar, Soul of Elements
Even if Bolt usage shrank 10%, it would still be the most played card in the format. 5 of the top 10 most played decks in Modern (Grixis Twin, UR Twin, Grixis Delver, Jund, Burn) play it at 4 main deck. And 3 of the top 5 decks that play bolt also play Tasigur/Gurmag Angler. And 4 of those 5 also either play other large creatures or ignore large creatures and win before they become a real threat.
As for Lingering Souls. Abzan has been on the decline for the past several months because people are switching to Jund. And it's primarily because of Bolt, Kolaghan's Command, Dark Confidant and its less painful mana base. Lingering Souls isn't even in the top 50 most played cards in Modern and sees play in only 1 of the top 20 most played decks in Modern.
Top 10 format staples http://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/modern
Top most played decks http://modernnexus.com/topdecks/
The changing modern metagame http://modernnexus.com/modern-metagame-breakdown-51-61/
Now I'm not saying the card wouldn't work. Just don't be expecting this card to push Temur Twin to tier 1.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
These are actually some decent points. I had forgotten about Night of Soul's Betrayal (or Illness in the Ranks, which does something similar for a single mana) and its ability to shut down Twin. The Soul Sisters point is fringe-relevant, but still worth noting.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
That just made my day.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
As a Twin player I have never lost because of not being able to tap a land. It either didn't matter because they didn't have removal or they had more than one untapped land.
This will be played in Tempo Twin.
but it shines bright in limited representing a fairly imaginable two for 0. Which is just super crazy good.
So Pro I have an alpha Volcanic Island
This is literally one of the laziest arguments I have ever heard. Every game where you tapp their last white source, untap and win represents a huge strategic point. Or tapping an urza land to keep off mark or etc etc.
It is unfortunate that you seem to be promoting terrible play for the twin community.
So Pro I have an alpha Volcanic Island
Why are they making non-Merfolk Fish?? Gurmag Angler should be a Merfolk, this guy should be a Merfolk!
(simic is the devil)
And yeah, it's Ravnica. Renegade Krasis, Elusive Krasis, Krasis Incubation, Battering Krasis, Drakewing Krasis. They're all Simic cards from GTC and DGM.
On phasing:
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Terrible play? Gee, I'm sorry for not using my Bounding Krasis to tap your land cause... You know, the card doesn't do that. What terrible play.
And who the heck is Mark?
PS there is no "Twin Community" that is literally one of the dorkiest things I've ever heard.
The hell are you talking about, man? I think you should calm down cause you are embarassing yourself in a way that's a bit ridiculous...
First, your comment about the land tapping being irrelevant is literally one of the DUMBEST things I've ever heard. Either you are an absolutely atrocious player or you haven't played this game for more than 2-3 months. For the sake of fairness, I'll assume it's the latter. It's ok to be a novice, but please learn a bit before making comments
About the topic: as a long, long time Twin player, tapping a land is absolutely, extremely crucial because many people play against twin usually leaving just enough mana to use removal on your dude, and tapping it makes them use it immediately. The "immediately" is important, again, because this way you can force them to use their kill spells on creatures that you don't care about (say if you have multiple Pesters/Exarchs, or want to actually kill them with Goyfs) WITHOUT having to put Twin on them. When they run out of cards, then you can combowin.
I'm not saying this card will be bad and I'll try it cause I love the 3/3 body, but not tapping a land is EXTREMELY important.
Oh, and btw, of course there's a "Twin community", just look at the Tier 1 Modern subforum, dude.
Peace
You're terribly wrong.
I've been playing Splinter Twin combo decks since ROE came out before the world even caught on (pretty much helped invent this deck) so you can not even begin to talk to me about how Twin variants play out.
I have played likely hundreds more games than you with Twin and yes I was fortunate to be able to tap a land to avoid removal or a counterspell a few times, but not enough that it matters more than having a solid p/t for times when you can't combo.
This isn't even up for debate.
Your "twin community" exists but it's just lame to call it that.
Lmao, then it is even worse, I mean how can a guy who has played twin for so long not understand something as basic as the importance of tapping lands, constraining their mana ang gaining tempo. I mean it's magic 101. Opponents may play leaving, say, 2 mana for Abrupt Decay (making all their spells effectively "cost" 2 more), but some of them may even wait to have 3 mana left so they aren't forced by your tap (smart play at times), giving you a huuuge advantage on tempo, when they are playing 3 mana spells while having 6 lands in play.
Ask any member of this community, or even Dickmann, and ofc learn2play better, it's never too late.
PS: again, i'll be trying 1-2 Krasis in my RUG Twin deck, cause I like the dude still
Instead of attempting to pretend one person is better than another or insulting someone, you should lead with this.
If someone is leaving "just enough mana" up against Twin, they're a bad player. It's better to play draw-go than it is to leave your one mana untapped and waiting for Twin to combo off.
edit: To clarify, I'm talking about fast decks like burn vs twin. I typically don't cast anything until your EOT from turn 3 on - which doesn't impact my game much at all since most of the deck is instant speed.
I've never lost to a Twin deck because they tapped down one of my lands. Ever.
Well a lot players here have started to play Illness in the Ranks or Virulent Plague to fight Twin decks. In this case the 3/3 is very relevant!