Yeah so at GP Vegas my pool that I passed had elesh norn for value and nothing else. The pool I got passed? Check out the value of this:
2x Scute Mob
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Long-Forgotten Gohei
1 Mirror Entity
1 Hellkite Charger
Some crap foils including a foil hikari I somehow traded for a pair of mercadian masques dark rituals on Sunday to someone trying to complete their MM2 foil set that weren't NM.
I got $27 for the playmat and griselbrand from a dealer and am heavily likely to get $2 or less for the eye of ugin and bulk rates/$.10 cents apiece for the rest of the rares. So I paid over $45 for the event essentially to go X-2 drop before I decided to play vintage instead and go 4-1 and got around $100 or so in cards (SP foil unhinged island and 2 NM KTK flooded strands.) The value of this set is so poor. You either open one of the few good rares or a mythic not named tezz, titan, or god help you comet storm unless it's in limited but even then if you aren't at a PPTQ/some event where you actually want to place well you'd rather just open some high end mythic to break even or gain value like clique. I haven't drafted this set and refuse to do so sure I've heard lots of praise for the limited environment but is it worth my money and time? Not remotely. This set reminds me of tournaments with very top heavy prize support best example I can think of in my area is a weekly wednesday tournament where 4-0 gets a whopping $100 in cash but 3-1 gets $25 with an entry fee of $15. Worse still 3-0-1 gets $60/ID'ing gives the store $5 for some complete bull***** reason as handing out 62.50 in cash or check form is not that much harder than $60.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Yeah so at GP Vegas my pool that I passed had elesh norn for value and nothing else. The pool I got passed? Check out the value of this:
2x Scute Mob
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Long-Forgotten Gohei
1 Mirror Entity
1 Hellkite Charger
Some crap foils including a foil hikari I somehow traded for a pair of mercadian masques dark rituals on Sunday to someone trying to complete their MM2 foil set that weren't NM.
I got $27 for the playmat and griselbrand from a dealer and am heavily likely to get $2 or less for the eye of ugin and bulk rates/$.10 cents apiece for the rest of the rares. So I paid over $45 for the event essentially to go X-2 drop before I decided to play vintage instead and go 4-1 and got around $100 or so in cards (SP foil unhinged island and 2 NM KTK flooded strands.) The value of this set is so poor. You either open one of the few good rares or a mythic not named tezz, titan, or god help you comet storm unless it's in limited but even then if you aren't at a PPTQ/some event where you actually want to place well you'd rather just open some high end mythic to break even or gain value like clique. I haven't drafted this set and refuse to do so sure I've heard lots of praise for the limited environment but is it worth my money and time? Not remotely. This set reminds me of tournaments with very top heavy prize support best example I can think of in my area is a weekly wednesday tournament where 4-0 gets a whopping $100 in cash but 3-1 gets $25 with an entry fee of $15. Worse still 3-0-1 gets $60/ID'ing gives the store $5 for some complete bull***** reason as handing out 62.50 in cash or check form is not that much harder than $60.
The limited environment is incredibly fun. In Vegas after scrubbing out of the main, I did two drafts, a standard event, and 2 headed giant. Some of the most fun and exciting games were in that draft and 2HG. The money was garbage, but if you went with the intention of making money, you're going for the wrong reasons. I definitely kept my GP mat and Clique mat, as well as a the few MVP (or burn in hell) cards as momentos of the awesome moments and memories. The rest of the non-money cards were tossed in the "cards for kids" boxes all over the floor. Iduno about everyone else, but I had a great time all weekend.
Yeah so at GP Vegas my pool that I passed had elesh norn for value and nothing else. The pool I got passed? Check out the value of this:
2x Scute Mob
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Long-Forgotten Gohei
1 Mirror Entity
1 Hellkite Charger
Some crap foils including a foil hikari I somehow traded for a pair of mercadian masques dark rituals on Sunday to someone trying to complete their MM2 foil set that weren't NM.
I got $27 for the playmat and griselbrand from a dealer and am heavily likely to get $2 or less for the eye of ugin and bulk rates/$.10 cents apiece for the rest of the rares. So I paid over $45 for the event essentially to go X-2 drop before I decided to play vintage instead and go 4-1 and got around $100 or so in cards (SP foil unhinged island and 2 NM KTK flooded strands.) The value of this set is so poor. You either open one of the few good rares or a mythic not named tezz, titan, or god help you comet storm unless it's in limited but even then if you aren't at a PPTQ/some event where you actually want to place well you'd rather just open some high end mythic to break even or gain value like clique. I haven't drafted this set and refuse to do so sure I've heard lots of praise for the limited environment but is it worth my money and time? Not remotely. This set reminds me of tournaments with very top heavy prize support best example I can think of in my area is a weekly wednesday tournament where 4-0 gets a whopping $100 in cash but 3-1 gets $25 with an entry fee of $15. Worse still 3-0-1 gets $60/ID'ing gives the store $5 for some complete bull***** reason as handing out 62.50 in cash or check form is not that much harder than $60.
Are you suggesting that for you not to be disappointed in this set, you would have had to open four or five foil tarmogoyfs? That's what it looks like.
For any set, I don't suggest travelling that far to an event if you're more there to recoup costs on pulls than to compete.
I don't expect for my modern masters 2 packs to recoup the costs for my plane ticket, hotel, and entry fee. If I had opened just one cryptic command in nonfoil in my pool and nothing else of value besides the playmat and promo I would have been happy. I couldn't even get that instead I got "here are some crap rares we printed in the set for no particular reason." If this was a normal limited event that I paid $60-75 for and got this I would have been even madder as there would be no GP foil or playmat to at least partially compensate my entry fee and I would have walked away with a few dollars for my hard earned time and money. To put this pool in perspective a single remand is worth more than the 6 rares I opened. Just 1 uncommon > 6 crap rares. It is absurd.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
MM2 limited is is fun, but nothing like MM1. More like core set draft actually. It's a format I'd play for normal price, but certainly not a format good enough to be worth spending extra money to draft. So it kind of has to have value in order be considered a success... and it just... doesn't.
I did two draftson friday... $45 each, 4 rounds, and you got a pack of MM2 for each win.
Went 8-0, so I ended up opening 14 packs total... and I still didn't even come close to making my money back.
While the guy who went 1-7 managed to pull a Goyf and a foil Clique. Now yes... luck happens. But the disparity in card values in this set is just absurd... and and that's not even mentioning the fact that the packing damages the cards... or the fact that they used duel deck quality printing, which makes the cards look like garbage when compared to their cousins from MM1.
This set it just an epic failure. If they wanted to make a draft set, make a freaking draft set... Cut a few expensive cards and the guaranteed foil from the set and charged $4 a pack. If you want to charge $10 a pack, you have to do a lot better then this.
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Decks: Standard - Rally, Modern - Kikichord, Legacy - Elves
Commmander - Eight-and-a-Half Tails; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; Prime Speaker Zegana; Alesha, Who Smiles at Death; Daxos the Returned; Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest; Patron of the Moonfolk; Animar, Soul of Elements
I don't expect for my modern masters 2 packs to recoup the costs for my plane ticket, hotel, and entry fee. If I had opened just one cryptic command in nonfoil in my pool and nothing else of value besides the playmat and promo I would have been happy. I couldn't even get that instead I got "here are some crap rares we printed in the set for no particular reason." If this was a normal limited event that I paid $60-75 for and got this I would have been even madder as there would be no GP foil or playmat to at least partially compensate my entry fee and I would have walked away with a few dollars for my hard earned time and money. To put this pool in perspective a single remand is worth more than the 6 rares I opened. Just 1 uncommon > 6 crap rares. It is absurd.
I almost understand, but there is still a disconnect in my mind. Let me explain my experience drafting this set, and hopefully you'll understand why I'm confused.
I go reluctantly to my store's pre-release--I'll enjoy it I'm sure, but I was also playing chicken with the whole event hoping it would sell out so I wouldn't just lose $50.
Pack 1: noble heirach. I am happy, I think 'sweet, $20 draft--I can live with that', I also think 'this card is good in limited--I could play ramp or hope to take advantage of having a turn 1 play and the exalted trigger'. I find myself in 'UG stuff' after opening some thrumming birds and some graft cards.
Pack 2: I see a great pack, good draft picks for basically every archetype. I think about taking vapor snag first as I have no removal yet, then see a leyline of sanctity. I could money draft it...but my face goes white. I have just opened a foil tarmogoyf. I feel like I'm going to barf, take it, sleeve it, and pass the pack. People know something is wrong when the guy next to me is asks 'are you serious?' I flash him the card---high fives all around. My deck is kind of coming togther, its UG sort of graft/tempo whatever. I don't realize what a bad card tarmo is until I start playing with him.
pack 3: I open a wolf-briar elemental, more graft stuff, another vapor snag. 2 tumble magnets and 2 thrumming birds end up in my deck with a bunch of equipment that I hope dies to grow the goyf.
I go 2-1. tarmo only got bigger than a 3/4 in one game--and I lost it anyway. I often beat down with a thrumming bird or goyf with a kite sail on it. a 2/1, or 1/1 in the goyfs case. It was stupid. Wolf-briar was way better. I open two packs, I get a ...something, I forgot, a remand, a bolt, and an elesh norn. In my third match I win from behind with 12 lands in play by chumping enough wolf-briar tokens to win on the crackback for lethal agaist a kozilek (mythic rare money card). Wolf-briar elemental won me a 20 dollar mythic. Or 17, whatever its worth.
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I got the best of both worlds, the moneyest rare, a good rare in both draft and for value, and a jank which was better than both of them in draft and won me more money pulls. I value each of them differently, and like each one.
If you bothered to travel to an event, and you're complaining about opening crap rares--you have your priorities mixed up. Just go buy a super deflated cryptic while the prices are so low because the set reprinted it. Opening packs is always a crappy gamble, you're complaining just looks insane. If you had or hadn't opened a cryptic, and that's the difference, I wish I had thought to try and sell you a $1200 non-foil cryptic.
The other night I lost control. I'm usually a very calm person, I always calculate pros and cons , I try to spend my money in the most efficent way possible, and yet I was hit by a tragic slip, in morbid.
Some guys bought a few boosters and found some rare myrs, a sphynx and some other low level stuff.. "it's time to go for it! the odds are by my side!" I said myself , I mean , some of the worst things of the set were already gone, how bad could it be?
Decided to buy my first pack of MM2 (only did release draft a few weeks back,drafted a primeval, I was happy that way) only to find an overwhelming stampede. [Okay , keep it cool zanio, you got it, you're strong enough to make it!]
Not giving up, bought 1 more , SURPRISE! Loadstone golem...
Completely lost my s**t, I did what a man in that condition should never do : I went berserkr and all-inned with 2 more packs. All I got were Guile and Chimeric Mass, with a little shattered dreams on the side. No valuable uncommon (seems crazy but you'll have to believe me). No valuable Foils. Nothing that could fit in my decks.
They say hope dies last, well.. mine was brutally slaughtered from a bunch of 1$ rares . And it's all my fault [to think i could have bought 2 fulminators or 2 spellskite for that cash , my heart hurts ]
stay safe guys, for MM2 is dark and full of terrors.
This past weekend, I walked into a game store at a nearby mall, saw they had exactly three packs of Modern Masters 2015, and bought them. Pack one, I pulled a Cryptic Command. Pack two, I disappointingly pulled a Wolfbriar Elemental. Pack 3? Tarmogoyf.
Moral of the story: Opening packs is like gambling. Some people win, most people lose. It happens. I'm not sure why you'd lose control.
My airfare and hotel cost me less than $550...even if I flew in on thursday it wouldn't have cost much more hotel wise and nothing more airfare wise.
I didn't go to the event for value. GPs are negative EV for virtually everyone in the room except vendors and players who place well enough or pull well enough. But pulling that many crap rares out of a quarter of a box? Try to have some empathy. Biggest GP of all time. Kind of want to day 2 or at least place semi well. Get crap rares and a mediocre pool to boot that can *maybe* carry me to X-2/chances of placing well at that point are quite low and top 8 is virtually impossible barring me X-0'ing the next day. Instead I waste hours of my time given how poorly ran the main event was "no don't start round 1 yet" and instead have you sit around doing absolutely nothing facing your opponent for 20 minutes or at least it felt like an eternity to me and I'm one of the most patient people you will meet. My story isn't some outlier. Tons of people attended GP Vegas as you no doubt have heard and the grand majority of them weren't expecting to day 2 or a whole lot in regards to EV. My expectations were pretty low if you don't think so that's your opinion. As for wanting cryptic to play with in constructed sorry I don't play modern. Just a random value card I thought of off the top of my head. Or did you want me to name clique, goyf, bob, bitterblossom, kozilek, emrakul, or a foil chase rare/mythic. Cryptic is worth a whopping less than half the entry fee on TCG mid right now for MMA2 copies. Getting half of my entry fee back in terms of cards opened isn't setting the bar particularly high in fact that's pretty low as a 50% return on investment is ***** numbers-wise.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I don't get what else Wizards could have done to make it better. If its full of staples and highly playables in every pack...the price goes nuts like the 2013 version. I ripped a case, kept what I needed and sold what I didn't while the prices were still high. I got about $250 for my foils alone....you just have to be smart about how you move them.
This set IS NOT a failure. It is only a failure to kids who ripped a few packs, didn't get a goyf and are on here crying about it. It has made many staples cheaper for people to snatch up and get into the format. Nobody loses when that happens.
If you want to see something crazy...I bought a ROE All is Dust about 2 months ago from MTGO for $10....and you now can buy it for about $0.50 online. Isn't that what is SUPPOSED to happen? Making it cheaper for those that want to break into the modern format? Daybreak Coronets went from $20+ to $1. That's a loss for players? Cmon....
The release was exactly what they wanted...get staples out and reduce the prices of them by AT LEAST 30% on the market as well as making a format that is actually fun to draft and participate in....without making it SO GOOD and SO VALUABLE that all the packs get marked up big time so that the casual collector/player doesn't get any.
Nice to see you have zero understanding why people hate this set.
MM2015 is completely, and one-sidedly top heavy. If you don't win the mythic sweepstakes (or if you pull Comet Storm, Primeval Titan, or Tezzeret), you're screwed. There are 34 rares in the set at less than $1. The set's EV is $164. There are THREE uncommons worth mentioning, and everything else is chaff. There is zero comparison to the first Modern Masters whatsoever. First MM had 27 worthwhile uncommons and 12 commons. MM2 had 3 uncommons, and zero commons.
At $240 MSRP the EV of the box is roughly 66% of the purchase price. Show me sets that have better EVs than that 2 weeks after release...
I don't get what else Wizards could have done to make it better. If its full of staples and highly playables in every pack...the price goes nuts like the 2013 version.
They could print to demand so that price per pack and EV regressed closer to MSRP while still having lots of value cards.
Did you spend thousands of dollars on determining how best to increase profits over a number of years like WOTC almost assuredly did? No? Didn't think so.
Oh darn, no second helpings of turd stew?
How will I survive?
I would recommend ignoring the whole thing and pretend it never happened, like all represent memories should be.
But if you find that too hard to suppress then there is always enacting petty if not disturbing revenge. My personal favorite so far has been the idea of taking all the comet storms, wolf brier elementals, and other junc cards, put them into a large bag and placing said bag in from of WOTC's front doors before lighting it on fire.
In-block Wolfbriar was really good. My friend had like two in his Ally Deck.
I don't get what else Wizards could have done to make it better. If its full of staples and highly playables in every pack...the price goes nuts like the 2013 version.
They could print to demand so that price per pack and EV regressed closer to MSRP while still having lots of value cards.
Did you spend thousands of dollars on determining how best to increase profits over a number of years like WOTC almost assuredly did? No? Didn't think so.
Oooh, nice Appeal to Authority there.
But, like usual, you are arguing for the giant corporation, and against the little guy getting cornholed to keep the Wizards stockholders happy.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I don't get what else Wizards could have done to make it better. If its full of staples and highly playables in every pack...the price goes nuts like the 2013 version. I ripped a case, kept what I needed and sold what I didn't while the prices were still high. I got about $250 for my foils alone....you just have to be smart about how you move them.
This set IS NOT a failure. It is only a failure to kids who ripped a few packs, didn't get a goyf and are on here crying about it. It has made many staples cheaper for people to snatch up and get into the format. Nobody loses when that happens.
If you want to see something crazy...I bought a ROE All is Dust about 2 months ago from MTGO for $10....and you now can buy it for about $0.50 online. Isn't that what is SUPPOSED to happen? Making it cheaper for those that want to break into the modern format? Daybreak Coronets went from $20+ to $1. That's a loss for players? Cmon....
The release was exactly what they wanted...get staples out and reduce the prices of them by AT LEAST 30% on the market as well as making a format that is actually fun to draft and participate in....without making it SO GOOD and SO VALUABLE that all the packs get marked up big time so that the casual collector/player doesn't get any.
Nice to see you have zero understanding why people hate this set.
MM2015 is completely, and one-sidedly top heavy. If you don't win the mythic sweepstakes (or if you pull Comet Storm, Primeval Titan, or Tezzeret), you're screwed. There are 34 rares in the set at less than $1. The set's EV is $164. There are THREE uncommons worth mentioning, and everything else is chaff. There is zero comparison to the first Modern Masters whatsoever. First MM had 27 worthwhile uncommons and 12 commons. MM2 had 3 uncommons, and zero commons.
At $240 MSRP the EV of the box is roughly 66% of the purchase price. Show me sets that have better EVs than that 2 weeks after release...
Modern Masters 1. Oh, did you want sets that don't have a 250% markup on pack prices at minimum?
Fun fact: if you take the best and worst mythics (Goyf and Comet Storm) out of the equation, the EV is even worse.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Some players care more about playing the cards than about EV. If this set has lower EV, maybe I will be able to buy a pack for $7 to $9 at some point. With MM1, I did not buy a single pack because the price was $10 plus.
I don't get what else Wizards could have done to make it better. If its full of staples and highly playables in every pack...the price goes nuts like the 2013 version.
They could print to demand so that price per pack and EV regressed closer to MSRP while still having lots of value cards.
Did you spend thousands of dollars on determining how best to increase profits over a number of years like WOTC almost assuredly did? No? Didn't think so.
Oooh, nice Appeal to Authority there.
But, like usual, you are arguing for the giant corporation, and against the little guy getting cornholed to keep the Wizards stockholders happy.
Or I'm arguing for the long term health of the game over the short term gains for players. But you can insult me and ignore logic if you'd like.
I don't get what else Wizards could have done to make it better. If its full of staples and highly playables in every pack...the price goes nuts like the 2013 version.
They could print to demand so that price per pack and EV regressed closer to MSRP while still having lots of value cards.
Did you spend thousands of dollars on determining how best to increase profits over a number of years like WOTC almost assuredly did? No? Didn't think so.
Of course I didn't, but you managed to completely miss the meaning of that exchange, so good job there. I didn't say "this is clearly wrong for wizards, they could have made more money by printing to demand." The person I was quoting stated that there is nothing Wizards could have done to stop packs from selling at way above MSRP if they printed more valuable cards in the set. I said there was something they could do, which was print to demand which would eventually push teh EV of a pack down to $10. Full stop. I never said it was in wizards best interest to do so.
Some players care more about playing the cards than about EV. If this set has lower EV, maybe I will be able to buy a pack for $7 to $9 at some point. With MM1, I did not buy a single pack because the price was $10 plus.
And a lot more players care about buying a box, or a good deal of packs, and not feeling like they wasted their money. No one expects their money back, but for a premium set and a premium prize, 40% return on average is more than fine.
That doesn't mean a $4 card in every pack. That means you buy 3 packs, get 2 $1 rares, a $4 rare, and a couple uncommons and commons that make up the rest. Modern Masters 1 was really good about that.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I don't get what else Wizards could have done to make it better. If its full of staples and highly playables in every pack...the price goes nuts like the 2013 version.
They could print to demand so that price per pack and EV regressed closer to MSRP while still having lots of value cards.
Did you spend thousands of dollars on determining how best to increase profits over a number of years like WOTC almost assuredly did? No? Didn't think so.
Oooh, nice Appeal to Authority there.
But, like usual, you are arguing for the giant corporation, and against the little guy getting cornholed to keep the Wizards stockholders happy.
Or I'm arguing for the long term health of the game over the short term gains for players. But you can insult me and ignore logic if you'd like.
And how does cornholing players help the long term growth of the game, exactly?
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Fun fact: if you take the best and worst mythics (Goyf and Comet Storm) out of the equation, the EV is even worse.
Isn't that true in every set and not remotely unique to MM2? Cards always cluster around a low value, removing the most and least valuable mythic will always reduce your EV, unless the average value of a mythic is closer to the most valuable mythic than the least valuable. For example, if there was a set where the average mythic value was $10, the most expensive would have to be less than $19 (and the cheapest more than $1) for removing both of them not to lower the EV of a pack.
Fun fact: if you take the best and worst mythics (Goyf and Comet Storm) out of the equation, the EV is even worse.
Isn't that true in every set and not remotely unique to MM2? Cards always cluster around a low value, removing the most and least valuable mythic will always reduce your EV, unless the average value of a mythic is closer to the most valuable mythic than the least valuable. For example, if there was a set where the average mythic value was $10, the most expensive would have to be less than $19 (and the cheapest more than $1) for removing both of them not to lower the EV of a pack.
When the EV greatly changes because you remove the best and worst mythic rare, it means that the value is being skewed heavily towards one side or the other.
For instance, the mythic EV for Dragons of Tarkir is $9. If you remove the high and low (Dragonlord Ojutai and Clone Legion), it drops to $8. So the value is fairly balanced. The overall set balance is similar.
On the other hand, look at Dragon's Maze, where the mythic EV is $5.68. Remove top and bottom, it becomes $2.47. Much steeper drop because of how much Voice of Resurgence ($22 at my local shop) distorts compared to 4 $1 mythics and 3 $1.50 mythics.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I don't get what else Wizards could have done to make it better. If its full of staples and highly playables in every pack...the price goes nuts like the 2013 version.
They could print to demand so that price per pack and EV regressed closer to MSRP while still having lots of value cards.
Did you spend thousands of dollars on determining how best to increase profits over a number of years like WOTC almost assuredly did? No? Didn't think so.
Of course I didn't, but you managed to completely miss the meaning of that exchange, so good job there. I didn't say "this is clearly wrong for wizards, they could have made more money by printing to demand." The person I was quoting stated that there is nothing Wizards could have done to stop packs from selling at way above MSRP if they printed more valuable cards in the set. I said there was something they could do, which was print to demand which would eventually push teh EV of a pack down to $10. Full stop. I never said it was in wizards best interest to do so.
Thanks for playing.
Yeah, I'm sure you saying didn't at all imply that you meant it. Nice job finding a way to back off your statement.
They could print to demand so that price per pack and EV regressed closer to MSRP while still having lots of value cards.
But they already refused. Among the first few things when they did when they announced MM1 was "Limited Print Run" and MM2 was "More than MM1, but still Limited Print Run". So, as much as you think "They could print to demand", that's the very first thing they thought the opposite of when they thought of reprinting Modern Staples.
So the entire thing becomes a juggling game of the set's construction with that restriction of Limited Print Run. The first time they did it, they put lots of value into the packs and people complained that MM1 ran out of stock and the price spiked up as a result. The second time they did it, they spiked the price first to prevent the "Imagery" of prices spiking up later (not that any of us approved anyway) and then reduced the value of the packs to make sure stock lasts longer (which also falls in line of what I think they have a vision of "Limited: the Gathering").
The problem is that they did both - they raised the prices and reduced the value of the packs/set. That is why MM2 feels so bad, although price-wise MM1 went up to the point they have the same prices, technically speaking.
At the end of the day the net is that there are more Modern playable staples available to the player base. How is that a loss?
All this whining about EV is just that...whining.
If you really think your $135 Goyf is not going to be worth way more in 6 months you're ignoring what happened last time he was printed. His MM1 version was available VERY cheaply and then spiked when supply dried up. The same is absolutely going to happen here.
Also, this product did a great job of getting a lot of Nobles, Cryptics, Remands, Fulminator Mages and Wilt-Leaf Lieges (Cards that were only expensive due to scarcity) back into the player base.
Mission accomplished. Stop whining because you didn't hit a foil Goyf!
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2x Scute Mob
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Long-Forgotten Gohei
1 Mirror Entity
1 Hellkite Charger
Some crap foils including a foil hikari I somehow traded for a pair of mercadian masques dark rituals on Sunday to someone trying to complete their MM2 foil set that weren't NM.
I got $27 for the playmat and griselbrand from a dealer and am heavily likely to get $2 or less for the eye of ugin and bulk rates/$.10 cents apiece for the rest of the rares. So I paid over $45 for the event essentially to go X-2 drop before I decided to play vintage instead and go 4-1 and got around $100 or so in cards (SP foil unhinged island and 2 NM KTK flooded strands.) The value of this set is so poor. You either open one of the few good rares or a mythic not named tezz, titan, or god help you comet storm unless it's in limited but even then if you aren't at a PPTQ/some event where you actually want to place well you'd rather just open some high end mythic to break even or gain value like clique. I haven't drafted this set and refuse to do so sure I've heard lots of praise for the limited environment but is it worth my money and time? Not remotely. This set reminds me of tournaments with very top heavy prize support best example I can think of in my area is a weekly wednesday tournament where 4-0 gets a whopping $100 in cash but 3-1 gets $25 with an entry fee of $15. Worse still 3-0-1 gets $60/ID'ing gives the store $5 for some complete bull***** reason as handing out 62.50 in cash or check form is not that much harder than $60.
Currently Playing:
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The limited environment is incredibly fun. In Vegas after scrubbing out of the main, I did two drafts, a standard event, and 2 headed giant. Some of the most fun and exciting games were in that draft and 2HG. The money was garbage, but if you went with the intention of making money, you're going for the wrong reasons. I definitely kept my GP mat and Clique mat, as well as a the few MVP (or burn in hell) cards as momentos of the awesome moments and memories. The rest of the non-money cards were tossed in the "cards for kids" boxes all over the floor. Iduno about everyone else, but I had a great time all weekend.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Are you suggesting that for you not to be disappointed in this set, you would have had to open four or five foil tarmogoyfs? That's what it looks like.
For any set, I don't suggest travelling that far to an event if you're more there to recoup costs on pulls than to compete.
Currently Playing:
Retired
I did two draftson friday... $45 each, 4 rounds, and you got a pack of MM2 for each win.
Went 8-0, so I ended up opening 14 packs total... and I still didn't even come close to making my money back.
While the guy who went 1-7 managed to pull a Goyf and a foil Clique. Now yes... luck happens. But the disparity in card values in this set is just absurd... and and that's not even mentioning the fact that the packing damages the cards... or the fact that they used duel deck quality printing, which makes the cards look like garbage when compared to their cousins from MM1.
This set it just an epic failure. If they wanted to make a draft set, make a freaking draft set... Cut a few expensive cards and the guaranteed foil from the set and charged $4 a pack. If you want to charge $10 a pack, you have to do a lot better then this.
Commmander - Eight-and-a-Half Tails; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; Prime Speaker Zegana; Alesha, Who Smiles at Death; Daxos the Returned; Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest; Patron of the Moonfolk; Animar, Soul of Elements
I almost understand, but there is still a disconnect in my mind. Let me explain my experience drafting this set, and hopefully you'll understand why I'm confused.
I go reluctantly to my store's pre-release--I'll enjoy it I'm sure, but I was also playing chicken with the whole event hoping it would sell out so I wouldn't just lose $50.
Pack 1: noble heirach. I am happy, I think 'sweet, $20 draft--I can live with that', I also think 'this card is good in limited--I could play ramp or hope to take advantage of having a turn 1 play and the exalted trigger'. I find myself in 'UG stuff' after opening some thrumming birds and some graft cards.
Pack 2: I see a great pack, good draft picks for basically every archetype. I think about taking vapor snag first as I have no removal yet, then see a leyline of sanctity. I could money draft it...but my face goes white. I have just opened a foil tarmogoyf. I feel like I'm going to barf, take it, sleeve it, and pass the pack. People know something is wrong when the guy next to me is asks 'are you serious?' I flash him the card---high fives all around. My deck is kind of coming togther, its UG sort of graft/tempo whatever. I don't realize what a bad card tarmo is until I start playing with him.
pack 3: I open a wolf-briar elemental, more graft stuff, another vapor snag. 2 tumble magnets and 2 thrumming birds end up in my deck with a bunch of equipment that I hope dies to grow the goyf.
I go 2-1. tarmo only got bigger than a 3/4 in one game--and I lost it anyway. I often beat down with a thrumming bird or goyf with a kite sail on it. a 2/1, or 1/1 in the goyfs case. It was stupid. Wolf-briar was way better. I open two packs, I get a ...something, I forgot, a remand, a bolt, and an elesh norn. In my third match I win from behind with 12 lands in play by chumping enough wolf-briar tokens to win on the crackback for lethal agaist a kozilek (mythic rare money card). Wolf-briar elemental won me a 20 dollar mythic. Or 17, whatever its worth.
-------------
I got the best of both worlds, the moneyest rare, a good rare in both draft and for value, and a jank which was better than both of them in draft and won me more money pulls. I value each of them differently, and like each one.
If you bothered to travel to an event, and you're complaining about opening crap rares--you have your priorities mixed up. Just go buy a super deflated cryptic while the prices are so low because the set reprinted it. Opening packs is always a crappy gamble, you're complaining just looks insane. If you had or hadn't opened a cryptic, and that's the difference, I wish I had thought to try and sell you a $1200 non-foil cryptic.
This past weekend, I walked into a game store at a nearby mall, saw they had exactly three packs of Modern Masters 2015, and bought them. Pack one, I pulled a Cryptic Command. Pack two, I disappointingly pulled a Wolfbriar Elemental. Pack 3? Tarmogoyf.
Moral of the story: Opening packs is like gambling. Some people win, most people lose. It happens. I'm not sure why you'd lose control.
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
I didn't go to the event for value. GPs are negative EV for virtually everyone in the room except vendors and players who place well enough or pull well enough. But pulling that many crap rares out of a quarter of a box? Try to have some empathy. Biggest GP of all time. Kind of want to day 2 or at least place semi well. Get crap rares and a mediocre pool to boot that can *maybe* carry me to X-2/chances of placing well at that point are quite low and top 8 is virtually impossible barring me X-0'ing the next day. Instead I waste hours of my time given how poorly ran the main event was "no don't start round 1 yet" and instead have you sit around doing absolutely nothing facing your opponent for 20 minutes or at least it felt like an eternity to me and I'm one of the most patient people you will meet. My story isn't some outlier. Tons of people attended GP Vegas as you no doubt have heard and the grand majority of them weren't expecting to day 2 or a whole lot in regards to EV. My expectations were pretty low if you don't think so that's your opinion. As for wanting cryptic to play with in constructed sorry I don't play modern. Just a random value card I thought of off the top of my head. Or did you want me to name clique, goyf, bob, bitterblossom, kozilek, emrakul, or a foil chase rare/mythic. Cryptic is worth a whopping less than half the entry fee on TCG mid right now for MMA2 copies. Getting half of my entry fee back in terms of cards opened isn't setting the bar particularly high in fact that's pretty low as a 50% return on investment is ***** numbers-wise.
Currently Playing:
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At $240 MSRP the EV of the box is roughly 66% of the purchase price. Show me sets that have better EVs than that 2 weeks after release...
Did you spend thousands of dollars on determining how best to increase profits over a number of years like WOTC almost assuredly did? No? Didn't think so.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
In-block Wolfbriar was really good. My friend had like two in his Ally Deck.
Oooh, nice Appeal to Authority there.
But, like usual, you are arguing for the giant corporation, and against the little guy getting cornholed to keep the Wizards stockholders happy.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Modern Masters 1. Oh, did you want sets that don't have a 250% markup on pack prices at minimum?
Fun fact: if you take the best and worst mythics (Goyf and Comet Storm) out of the equation, the EV is even worse.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
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Or I'm arguing for the long term health of the game over the short term gains for players. But you can insult me and ignore logic if you'd like.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Of course I didn't, but you managed to completely miss the meaning of that exchange, so good job there. I didn't say "this is clearly wrong for wizards, they could have made more money by printing to demand." The person I was quoting stated that there is nothing Wizards could have done to stop packs from selling at way above MSRP if they printed more valuable cards in the set. I said there was something they could do, which was print to demand which would eventually push teh EV of a pack down to $10. Full stop. I never said it was in wizards best interest to do so.
Thanks for playing.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
And a lot more players care about buying a box, or a good deal of packs, and not feeling like they wasted their money. No one expects their money back, but for a premium set and a premium prize, 40% return on average is more than fine.
That doesn't mean a $4 card in every pack. That means you buy 3 packs, get 2 $1 rares, a $4 rare, and a couple uncommons and commons that make up the rest. Modern Masters 1 was really good about that.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
And how does cornholing players help the long term growth of the game, exactly?
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Isn't that true in every set and not remotely unique to MM2? Cards always cluster around a low value, removing the most and least valuable mythic will always reduce your EV, unless the average value of a mythic is closer to the most valuable mythic than the least valuable. For example, if there was a set where the average mythic value was $10, the most expensive would have to be less than $19 (and the cheapest more than $1) for removing both of them not to lower the EV of a pack.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
When the EV greatly changes because you remove the best and worst mythic rare, it means that the value is being skewed heavily towards one side or the other.
For instance, the mythic EV for Dragons of Tarkir is $9. If you remove the high and low (Dragonlord Ojutai and Clone Legion), it drops to $8. So the value is fairly balanced. The overall set balance is similar.
On the other hand, look at Dragon's Maze, where the mythic EV is $5.68. Remove top and bottom, it becomes $2.47. Much steeper drop because of how much Voice of Resurgence ($22 at my local shop) distorts compared to 4 $1 mythics and 3 $1.50 mythics.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Yeah, I'm sure you saying didn't at all imply that you meant it. Nice job finding a way to back off your statement.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
But they already refused. Among the first few things when they did when they announced MM1 was "Limited Print Run" and MM2 was "More than MM1, but still Limited Print Run". So, as much as you think "They could print to demand", that's the very first thing they thought the opposite of when they thought of reprinting Modern Staples.
So the entire thing becomes a juggling game of the set's construction with that restriction of Limited Print Run. The first time they did it, they put lots of value into the packs and people complained that MM1 ran out of stock and the price spiked up as a result. The second time they did it, they spiked the price first to prevent the "Imagery" of prices spiking up later (not that any of us approved anyway) and then reduced the value of the packs to make sure stock lasts longer (which also falls in line of what I think they have a vision of "Limited: the Gathering").
The problem is that they did both - they raised the prices and reduced the value of the packs/set. That is why MM2 feels so bad, although price-wise MM1 went up to the point they have the same prices, technically speaking.
All this whining about EV is just that...whining.
If you really think your $135 Goyf is not going to be worth way more in 6 months you're ignoring what happened last time he was printed. His MM1 version was available VERY cheaply and then spiked when supply dried up. The same is absolutely going to happen here.
Also, this product did a great job of getting a lot of Nobles, Cryptics, Remands, Fulminator Mages and Wilt-Leaf Lieges (Cards that were only expensive due to scarcity) back into the player base.
Mission accomplished. Stop whining because you didn't hit a foil Goyf!