BFZ might not be all that bad considering the new cards...
These decklists are devoid of any value. It looks just as bad as the Beast vs Soldier list from Theros (there was no way to win with the mono White deck).
Inb4 these will be the strongest cards in the new set and everything else will be below that power level.
BFZ might not be all that bad considering the new cards...
These decklists are devoid of any value. It looks just as bad as the Beast vs Soldier list from Theros (there was no way to win with the mono White deck).
Inb4 these will be the strongest cards in the new set and everything else will be below that power level.
Primal Command, It That Betrays, Stirring Wildwood, Vampire Nighthawk, and Forked Bolt are at least decent value.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Man, this is a sad pile of cards. These decks are aggressively weak and underpowered. Duel decks are approaching intro deck levels of suck these days...
What were you expecting? 5-color good stuff with fetches versus Jund Turbo Ramp and 4x Lotus Cobra? The last time Wizards created a Vs. deck that actually did anything, it was in Fantasy Land because it doesn't exist. Even high value decks like JvC, AvD, and GvL were battlecruiser bashes more than anything synergistic. Only times the decks actually worked well was when it was tribal (GvE, the easiest possible combination) or Artifact themed with TvE.
Besides, I bought Phyrexia vs. The Coalition. Don't talk to me about horrific value. That deck was crispy fried puke right down to the bone marrow.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
There hasn't been a good Duel Deck since Sorin vs Tibalt. Rocky Tar Pit is the only non-rare card you can't get NM for cents other than the overpriced and underwhelming Forked Bolt. Most of the rares suck, the previe cards aren't that amazing and the new art is all in underwhelming cards.
Only Stirring Wildwood, It that Betrays and Avenger of Zendikar have value, and not much even.
This doesn't cover any bases, it's weak in facelifts, weak in art, weak in value and looks weak in playability.
Anyone who is looking at Ingest at just it's face value and saying "Exiling one card isn't great!" is being pretty short sighted. This isn't even blind faith in Wizards or anything. They've already showed us a card that directly interacts with the exile zone.
Do you think they took one of the most beloved tribes and said "Meh, exile a card is good enough".
The value is decent enough here, I'm just disappointed that almost every card in these two decks came from Zendikar block. I know that these two decks are supposed to be Zendikar stuff, but that just annoyed seeing nothing but Zendikar stuff.
I'll probably be getting at least two of these for the decent stuff, plus two dice and the tokens are great additions.
Anyone who is looking at Ingest at just it's face value and saying "Exiling one card isn't great!" is being pretty short sighted. This isn't even blind faith in Wizards or anything. They've already showed us a card that directly interacts with the exile zone.
Do you think they took one of the most beloved tribes and said "Meh, exile a card is good enough".
Rest in Peace will be a better enable of exile shenanigans than ANY Ingest creature they could make.
Mark my words.
I am only 25 but it still saddens me that I have to bring up the whole back in my day....back in my day we had balanced thematically strong decks that played well together had nifty combos and reprints of some old and cool cards.
Nowadays we get this, or speed vs cunning but I think both are on the same level. That level being aweful for anyone wanting to play magic. Allow me to explain while there is no arguing there is value in these decks. It That Betrays, Primal Command, Stirring Wildwood, Avenger of Zendikar are your cards.
But looking at the decks you see two decks that feel so badly constructed. The GW allies, landfall ,levelup is exactly how it sounds a mess of ideas. It really seems like a small child just opened 3 zendikar boosters up and stuck whatever matched those colors into his deck. The allies chosen are crap and do nothing, the landfall has hardly any ramp to help it and the landfall itself is weak abilites , and level up is extremely boring. Do I want to play Stonework Puma or would I rather play Oran-Rief Survivalist. Do I really have to play Caravan Escort if there is Hada Freeblade. I am not saying make a solely an allies deck but why bother to include allies if the deck shouldn't use them. Landfall and level up would of been fine. Landfall and allies would have been good but what we get is just some nonsense. For every nice thematic card that plays well there are about 3 Seer's Sundial or Makindi Griffin. Just saying some Emeria Angel,Steppe Lynx and maybe some Search for Tomorrow would of been awesome !
On the other side, is this Zendikar vs Vampires cause that is what its coming across as. I have less issues with this deck since most of the cards can be decent not sure why the decided to include some 7 mana kill cards in the way of Heartstabber Mosquito. I wont speak to much about the new mechanics just that people should realize we are going from Kozilek, Butcher of Truth to that. Doesn't come across as exciting, maybe in the set it will be but for now wow is that underwhelming and parasitic. Otherwise I just found it odd that so many good eldrazi cards are in green and it wouldn't have been to much effort to go jund colors. Also why do we need Butcher of Malakir isn't there more vampires or at least more rares out there that haven;t been printed.
So my final thoughts, value for people that just want to buy it for the rares and alternative artwork but no value for anyone else. Decks are terrible and feel weak, I always say when making these decks to make both of them stronger not weaker and in this case they went for weaker. For those that are going to shout at me saying I am not the target market this is for people that want to get into Magic I call bull***** since they have intro decks and the clash packs do a much better time in deck construction than these decks.
These decks are the height of Wizards ineptitude to make decks. No love has been put into these, no one ever during the design process said wait these look like crap. UGH!
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
The mixture of Landfall, Allies, and Level up does make sense. Level up was the Zendikari's answer to the Eldrazi in RotE and makes good use of the mana ramp encouraged by Landfall. The small number of Allies is a bit puzzling, especially since they left the white Allies out when white was practically the primary Ally color. The lack of Pennon Blade is also unfortunate as it would have provided some excellent flavor.
The Eldrazi deck meanwhile sports surprisingly few Spawn cards; the lack of Brood Birthing and Skittering Invasion in particular is puzzling, and Dread Drone and Essence Feed also seemed like suitable inclusions. I had a feeling the Eldrazi deck was going to need to stretch a bit for its creature selection, as there were simply too few Eldrazi cards to use as the creature base. Vampires make a lot of sense as Eldrazi minions based on the flavor.
I am surprised by how many of the cards I'd looked up actually got in, though: Oust, Repel the Darkness, Smother, and Groundswell were all cards I considered including in my speculative decklists but was hesitant to include due to how many ZEN block reprints I had already included, using Sorin vs. Tibalt as a guide to the acceptable number of reprints from a single block. Guess I was off the mark on that.
So yeah, I wouldn't call this the ideal decklists for the theme, but I would be interested in hearing what decisions went into designing the decks. But as far as I know, Duel or Die was the last time we got a design article for Duel Decks.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I agree with Epic_Bubble, they put less and less effort into these sets. Nothing to do with value or wanted reprints, but how well balanced and fun they are to play. Phyrexia vs Coalition was my first ones, and they were great. Knights vs. Dragons, also good. Izzet vs. Golgari, good. Jace vs. Vraska was my first huge disappointment, those decks just run past each other and every game devolves into a damage race. Then I got the Anthologies set for Christmas, and I was blown away by how incredibly fun those decks are to play, there are lots more interesting interactions, they feel powerful and every game is different.
I used to be a huge proponent for these sets, as there are lots of people who like playing magic but have no interest in deckbuilding. That's my wife and most of my friends. But now I barely check out the spoiled ones. It's sad.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
1. The Zendikar deck has even less focus than the average Intro Deck. It wants to be landfall AND GW Allies AND some sort of Level Up combination without any of the enablers for it (which were all blue). Ideally the deck would pick one of these threads and go with it (landfall would allow you to keep the face card the same and would seem to fit together easier than the other two without switching everything). I mean, Veteran Warleader makes no sense in a deck with one token-making card and only five other allies (one being the auto-cut Stonework Puma).
2. Outside of It That Betrays and Oblivion Sower, the rares in the Eldrazi deck are hot garbage. Why is Butcher of Malakir in every black pre-con these days? Why would you EVER cast Hellion Eruption when you can use the Eldrazi spawn to power out Artisan or one of the two big guys? For that matter, why would you cast Hellion Eruption over just feeding the creatures to the Magmaw for guaranteed damage? Even Consume the Meek is less than ideal in a deck where you want all your cheap stuff around as sacrificial fodder. If they'd really wanted to do this right and stay thematic, one of the rares should have been Spawnsire of Ulamog and one should have been a mega-exile to make Sower more meaningful (I'm thinking Sadistic Sacrament).
if Wizards R&D are so concerned with making the game simple and accessible, why do they keep adding these keywords when a simple plain-english "This card has no color" will do? That way, new players don't have to learn extra unnecessary keywords.
Spelling out that Devoid = colorless is simple and clear. It means you only have to read it once and then you can skim past it every time after that. Plus it allows other cards to add devoid or reference devoid, but I don't imagine they'll use it that way. Changeling was similarly simple.
You can say that exact same thing about hundreds of keywords individually, but every time a new keyword is created, that's one more word that a player needs to memorize in order to master the game, and the added complexity adds up over the years.
This is especially evident to me when playing EDH with players who didn't play the blocks the cards were released in; One of the more minor reasons Wizards justify these keywords is that it means they can have one or two more complex cards using those keywords without using up text space, because all the other cards in the set explain those keywords ... but if those one or two cards are the only such cards included in your EDH deck, suddenly the EDH deck you handed out contains these mysterious keywords that have no explanation attached to them.
You can't complain about too many mechanics when you are playing a format designed for the wackiest interactions. That's like saying that you watch NASCAR for the crashes, but don't like when the paint is chipped of the car.
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Lands are colorless permanents anyway. WOTC can put Devoid on them, but it wouldn't change anything.
You may be thinking of color identity from EDH/Commander.
Do you mean basic lands that produce colorless mana?
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Yeah I was thinking about color identity, but devoid does not change that *brain fart*
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
These decklists are devoid of any value. It looks just as bad as the Beast vs Soldier list from Theros (there was no way to win with the mono White deck).
Inb4 these will be the strongest cards in the new set and everything else will be below that power level.
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
Primal Command, It That Betrays, Stirring Wildwood, Vampire Nighthawk, and Forked Bolt are at least decent value.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
EDH players have wanted those for a while.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
What were you expecting? 5-color good stuff with fetches versus Jund Turbo Ramp and 4x Lotus Cobra? The last time Wizards created a Vs. deck that actually did anything, it was in Fantasy Land because it doesn't exist. Even high value decks like JvC, AvD, and GvL were battlecruiser bashes more than anything synergistic. Only times the decks actually worked well was when it was tribal (GvE, the easiest possible combination) or Artifact themed with TvE.
Besides, I bought Phyrexia vs. The Coalition. Don't talk to me about horrific value. That deck was crispy fried puke right down to the bone marrow.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Rocky Tar Pit is the only non-rare card you can't get NM for cents other than the overpriced and underwhelming Forked Bolt. Most of the rares suck, the previe cards aren't that amazing and the new art is all in underwhelming cards.
Only Stirring Wildwood, It that Betrays and Avenger of Zendikar have value, and not much even.
This doesn't cover any bases, it's weak in facelifts, weak in art, weak in value and looks weak in playability.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Might we actually see Ghostfire in the coming set?
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
Do you think they took one of the most beloved tribes and said "Meh, exile a card is good enough".
I'll probably be getting at least two of these for the decent stuff, plus two dice and the tokens are great additions.
Tragic Poet when
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Rest in Peace will be a better enable of exile shenanigans than ANY Ingest creature they could make.
Mark my words.
I am only 25 but it still saddens me that I have to bring up the whole back in my day....back in my day we had balanced thematically strong decks that played well together had nifty combos and reprints of some old and cool cards.
Nowadays we get this, or speed vs cunning but I think both are on the same level. That level being aweful for anyone wanting to play magic. Allow me to explain while there is no arguing there is value in these decks. It That Betrays, Primal Command, Stirring Wildwood, Avenger of Zendikar are your cards.
But looking at the decks you see two decks that feel so badly constructed. The GW allies, landfall ,levelup is exactly how it sounds a mess of ideas. It really seems like a small child just opened 3 zendikar boosters up and stuck whatever matched those colors into his deck. The allies chosen are crap and do nothing, the landfall has hardly any ramp to help it and the landfall itself is weak abilites , and level up is extremely boring. Do I want to play Stonework Puma or would I rather play Oran-Rief Survivalist. Do I really have to play Caravan Escort if there is Hada Freeblade. I am not saying make a solely an allies deck but why bother to include allies if the deck shouldn't use them. Landfall and level up would of been fine. Landfall and allies would have been good but what we get is just some nonsense. For every nice thematic card that plays well there are about 3 Seer's Sundial or Makindi Griffin. Just saying some Emeria Angel,Steppe Lynx and maybe some Search for Tomorrow would of been awesome !
On the other side, is this Zendikar vs Vampires cause that is what its coming across as. I have less issues with this deck since most of the cards can be decent not sure why the decided to include some 7 mana kill cards in the way of Heartstabber Mosquito. I wont speak to much about the new mechanics just that people should realize we are going from Kozilek, Butcher of Truth to that. Doesn't come across as exciting, maybe in the set it will be but for now wow is that underwhelming and parasitic. Otherwise I just found it odd that so many good eldrazi cards are in green and it wouldn't have been to much effort to go jund colors. Also why do we need Butcher of Malakir isn't there more vampires or at least more rares out there that haven;t been printed.
So my final thoughts, value for people that just want to buy it for the rares and alternative artwork but no value for anyone else. Decks are terrible and feel weak, I always say when making these decks to make both of them stronger not weaker and in this case they went for weaker. For those that are going to shout at me saying I am not the target market this is for people that want to get into Magic I call bull***** since they have intro decks and the clash packs do a much better time in deck construction than these decks.
These decks are the height of Wizards ineptitude to make decks. No love has been put into these, no one ever during the design process said wait these look like crap. UGH!
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
The Eldrazi deck meanwhile sports surprisingly few Spawn cards; the lack of Brood Birthing and Skittering Invasion in particular is puzzling, and Dread Drone and Essence Feed also seemed like suitable inclusions. I had a feeling the Eldrazi deck was going to need to stretch a bit for its creature selection, as there were simply too few Eldrazi cards to use as the creature base. Vampires make a lot of sense as Eldrazi minions based on the flavor.
I am surprised by how many of the cards I'd looked up actually got in, though: Oust, Repel the Darkness, Smother, and Groundswell were all cards I considered including in my speculative decklists but was hesitant to include due to how many ZEN block reprints I had already included, using Sorin vs. Tibalt as a guide to the acceptable number of reprints from a single block. Guess I was off the mark on that.
So yeah, I wouldn't call this the ideal decklists for the theme, but I would be interested in hearing what decisions went into designing the decks. But as far as I know, Duel or Die was the last time we got a design article for Duel Decks.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I used to be a huge proponent for these sets, as there are lots of people who like playing magic but have no interest in deckbuilding. That's my wife and most of my friends. But now I barely check out the spoiled ones. It's sad.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
1. The Zendikar deck has even less focus than the average Intro Deck. It wants to be landfall AND GW Allies AND some sort of Level Up combination without any of the enablers for it (which were all blue). Ideally the deck would pick one of these threads and go with it (landfall would allow you to keep the face card the same and would seem to fit together easier than the other two without switching everything). I mean, Veteran Warleader makes no sense in a deck with one token-making card and only five other allies (one being the auto-cut Stonework Puma).
2. Outside of It That Betrays and Oblivion Sower, the rares in the Eldrazi deck are hot garbage. Why is Butcher of Malakir in every black pre-con these days? Why would you EVER cast Hellion Eruption when you can use the Eldrazi spawn to power out Artisan or one of the two big guys? For that matter, why would you cast Hellion Eruption over just feeding the creatures to the Magmaw for guaranteed damage? Even Consume the Meek is less than ideal in a deck where you want all your cheap stuff around as sacrificial fodder. If they'd really wanted to do this right and stay thematic, one of the rares should have been Spawnsire of Ulamog and one should have been a mega-exile to make Sower more meaningful (I'm thinking Sadistic Sacrament).
UBDragonlord Silumgar WGKarametra, God of Harvests
BRUNekusar, the Mindrazer BGMazirek, Kraul Death Priest
URMelek, Izzet Paragon UGPrime Speaker Zegana
WUHanna, Ship's Navigator BWUSydri, Galvanic Genius
WUBRGSliver Queen RBBladewing the Risen
WBKarlov of the Ghost Council RGXenagos, God of Revels
GFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury RWAurelia, the Warleader
RIb Halfheart, Goblin Tactician BDrana, Liberator of Malakir
UAzami, Lady of Scrolls WNahiri, the Lithomancer
WBGDoran, the Siege Tower CEmrakul, the Promised End
also in be4 reanimate exile, dredge exile and mega-exile
maro quit your job please
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
You can't complain about too many mechanics when you are playing a format designed for the wackiest interactions. That's like saying that you watch NASCAR for the crashes, but don't like when the paint is chipped of the car.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread