Reserve list being stupid or not, the last thing anyone wants is Hasbro execs ****ing with Wizards' autonomous decision-making. You will not like what happens when suits get involved in the things you care about. That Magic movie might kill everything as it is.
I forgot about the movie, does anyone have an idea when that is going to hit the fan?
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Varyag..please do not make me say what I didn't...my point (and I'm sure you understand it very well) is that not every legacy players need to invest thousands $ (in 2015) to get every staples of the format..it is possible to enjoy the format with a sub-optimal deck that cost far less.
Sure Legacy or Vintage is not for the new player that just started a month ago but if you pay attention at not giving away your value over 2 or 3 years, you will then be able to construct an eternal format deck or 2 that you will be able to use to have fun playing those very nice formats.
In fact, if you want to go there, I got one of my 2 playsets of FOW playing a $10 casual tournament 12 yrs ago, I got 2 copies trading 2 Kokusho about 10 yrs ago and I bought the other 2 for $20 each maybe 8 years ago...sure in 2015 you can't do that with FOW but with the next FOW or the next Legacy/Modern/Vintage Staple you are fully capable of doing it...just use your new hot Narset or Ojutai...3 yrs ago you could get Flusterstom for $10, 2 yrs ago you could get Liliana for $25...those are example of buying at low price to build up an eternal collection...
If a player decide to be competitive at every moment of time in the 4-5 main official formats then it's a whole different story and you cannot complain about not being able to play Legacy because it's too expensive...just choose the battle in which you are the most interested...for my part, I concede being competitive in Standard to be able to be a bit more competitve in Modern...
Exactly. I always wonder if Hasbro's shareholders know about the Reserved List and the obscene profit potential of reprinting some of its goodies in foil or Commander products...
It is extremely unlikely that anyone at Hasbro understands Magic formats or healthy reprint policy. If anything a Hasbro exec was like "How can we keep this product strong?" and WotC was like "we have these eternal formats blah blah" and Hasbro was like "Eternal what? Yeah, cool, I guess. You guys do you."
People at Hasbro not understand how magic as a game works and format knowledge? Are you joking? It's heavily likely that a lot of hasbro employees play magic/understand what's going on. You're making it sound like hasbro executives are utter morons when Hasbro is a gigantic company/being an executive isn't exactly easy at a company of that size. The notion that the MTG movie will kill magic is hilarious. If anything it has the potential to make MTG as a game several times more popular/that 13 million number in terms of how many people play MTG now might look tiny in comparison in a few years time. I don't see how the MTG movie could drive people away from the game who are already playing anyways/the movie is all upside in terms of people playing MTG Hasbro knows this otherwise why would they have gone ahead with a movie.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I think Hasbro made more money Q1 because they raised their wholesale prices. MTG players buy a ton of cards and the profit from that gets divvied up among shareholders. It's a dark thought, but Hasbro is driven by the need to pay shareholders, not make a better Magic the Gathering...it's too bad WOTC isn't an independent company.
Fortunately, making the game more interactive, better supported, and more accessible is how they're improving value for shareholders and selling more product. Even if Wotc was on their own, they'd still be driven by shareholders.
It doesn't always mean the customer is getting screwed when shareholders are thriving, in fact, it can likely mean the opposite.
Fortunately, making the game more interactive, better supported, and more accessible is how they're improving value for shareholders and selling more product. Even if Wotc was on their own, they'd still be driven by shareholders.
Devil's advocate here, I know, but... isn't this precisely what they tried to do with D&D?
Make the game more interactive, more accessible and better supported?
22 years and this game is still interesting to play
Well, that's debatable. The past four blocks seem to have been a competition to see which could bore me the most. It's gotten to the point that I entirely gave up on Standard, because I just can't muster up the energy to care anymore. Maybe Battle for Zendikar will change that. Who knows?
Sales figures seem to suggest that you are an outlier factor in the equation and that a big majority of paying players have enjoyed those sets.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Fortunately, making the game more interactive, better supported, and more accessible is how they're improving value for shareholders and selling more product. Even if Wotc was on their own, they'd still be driven by shareholders.
Devil's advocate here, I know, but... isn't this precisely what they tried to do with D&D?
Make the game more interactive, more accessible and better supported?
Not sure, not familiar with DnD. All of those things sound like good changes, but generally loyalists who were playing any game when it was less accessible will dislike a change for accessibility due to their investments and accomplishments and feelings of those being undermined. Just the way it goes (Not sure if this applies to DnD, but World of Warcraft, Dark Souls, and Magic all come to mind)
22 years and this game is still interesting to play
Well, that's debatable. The past four blocks seem to have been a competition to see which could bore me the most. It's gotten to the point that I entirely gave up on Standard, because I just can't muster up the energy to care anymore. Maybe Battle for Zendikar will change that. Who knows?
Sales figures seem to suggest that you are an outlier factor in the equation and that a big majority of paying players have enjoyed those sets.
Well, I'll put it this way. World of Warcraft still dominates the MMO market. That doesn't necessarily make it a good game. It makes it the most played game.
I think Hasbro made more money Q1 because they raised their wholesale prices. MTG players buy a ton of cards and the profit from that gets divvied up among shareholders. It's a dark thought, but Hasbro is driven by the need to pay shareholders, not make a better Magic the Gathering...it's too bad WOTC isn't an independent company.
Being owned by Hasbro is probably, on balance, better for Wizards than being an independent company. It gives them connections they wouldn't have otherwise. For instance, my LGS owner has a theory that the Chinese counterfeits the community was working itself up about were stopped because Hasbro talked to the Chinese government, threatened to pull some or all of their Chinese operations, and the government went after the counterfeiters. Wizards on their own wouldn't have been able to do that.
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Rules Advisor (as of the last time they offered that certification).
Quote from "William Lyon Mackenzie King" »
There are few men in this Parliament for whom I have greater respect than the leader of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation. I admire him in my heart, because time and again he has had the courage to say what lays on his conscience, regardless of what the world might think of him. A man of that calibre is an ornament to any Parliament.
I don't play decks. I solve optimization problems.
Currently solving:
Standard: Too poor for this format.
Modern: GW Auras, Living End, WB TurboFog, UB Mill, UR Storm
Legacy: R Burn, GU Infect, RG Lands, B Contamination
It is extremely unlikely that anyone at Hasbro understands Magic formats or healthy reprint policy. If anything a Hasbro exec was like "How can we keep this product strong?" and WotC was like "we have these eternal formats blah blah" and Hasbro was like "Eternal what? Yeah, cool, I guess. You guys do you."
People at Hasbro not understand how magic as a game works and format knowledge? Are you joking? It's heavily likely that a lot of hasbro employees play magic/understand what's going on. You're making it sound like hasbro executives are utter morons when Hasbro is a gigantic company/being an executive isn't exactly easy at a company of that size. The notion that the MTG movie will kill magic is hilarious. If anything it has the potential to make MTG as a game several times more popular/that 13 million number in terms of how many people play MTG now might look tiny in comparison in a few years time. I don't see how the MTG movie could drive people away from the game who are already playing anyways/the movie is all upside in terms of people playing MTG Hasbro knows this otherwise why would they have gone ahead with a movie.
I think the people feeling it will kill magic are worried it won't be some secret niche game they keep hidden away. They want the game to stay small.
It is extremely unlikely that anyone at Hasbro understands Magic formats or healthy reprint policy. If anything a Hasbro exec was like "How can we keep this product strong?" and WotC was like "we have these eternal formats blah blah" and Hasbro was like "Eternal what? Yeah, cool, I guess. You guys do you."
People at Hasbro not understand how magic as a game works and format knowledge? Are you joking? It's heavily likely that a lot of hasbro employees play magic/understand what's going on. You're making it sound like hasbro executives are utter morons when Hasbro is a gigantic company/being an executive isn't exactly easy at a company of that size. The notion that the MTG movie will kill magic is hilarious. If anything it has the potential to make MTG as a game several times more popular/that 13 million number in terms of how many people play MTG now might look tiny in comparison in a few years time. I don't see how the MTG movie could drive people away from the game who are already playing anyways/the movie is all upside in terms of people playing MTG Hasbro knows this otherwise why would they have gone ahead with a movie.
Executives are stupid. This is fact. Well, not stupid, sometimes, but it's not their job to know the intricacies of their products. Right now Hasbro leaves WotC alone for the most part, very likely because only Wizards knows how to run this game and there's no reason to interfere in that. Maybe some higher-ups at Hasbro are intimately in touch with MTG's more nuanced rules beyond "it's our enormous money-printing card game brand over in Seattle somewhere", but that doesn't mean they understand the game enough to suggest any reprint decisions. Very few people in Wizards R&D and management have enough knowledge of the game to make those decisions. Do you think Hasbro's global brand manager is a Pro Tour player?
And Magic is already huge. It's the most popular paper game in the world by a long shot, discounting Playing Cards. The Magic movie will do two things:
a. Be really good and pander to the core fan base but not make a ton of money at the box office (this will never happen)
b. Be super generalized and generic and probably bad, like the Final Fantasy movie, in an attempt to half-assedly market the game to millions of people who would never play it to begin with. It still flops and then Hasbro is like "Well MAN, the movie did bad so obviously the game isn't worth investing so much time and money into!" And then people get fired and everything goes awry. We must never forget the sins of The Spirits Within.
MTG has its audience. Trying to grow it out to include to bro-Steve and Aunt Janice isn't going to do anything good for it. The more you attempt to appeal to everyone, the more you appeal to no one at all. This is a basic concept.
Final Fantasy is not a very good comparison, I suspect. If anything, they'll likely to be trying to emulate Marvel's success and aim for a movie with that tone. And the idea that "MTG has its audience" is ridiculous, considering the game's steady growth over the last several years. There's room for more, and a movie will certainly pull them in.
Why refer to final fantasy when there's a better and closer case study at hand : Dungeons and dragons.
The first D&D cost 30 millions and was a flop. It was generic, had known actors and was timed right after 3e came out.
They made a 2nd straight-to-dvd years after. It used unknown actors, was heavily D&D specific and cost very little.
It was vastly superior to the first but still probably made no money because : no one knew about it, and the stigma of the first one.
A magic movie to me seems doomed from the start. The brand has fantastic lore but can't use it well somehow. The never could make novels work. They turned to cartoons, which were better but not very good either. They design this very intricate lore but it's too loose and pointless no one knows it's beginning and end.
They can't get a compelling story going...they'll just put jace and probably Lili and a laughable ajani that will remind us of Jar-Jar in an half-assed story about the multiverse no one understand cause they'll dumb it down too much.
Final Fantasy is not a very good comparison, I suspect. If anything, they'll likely to be trying to emulate Marvel's success and aim for a movie with that tone. And the idea that "MTG has its audience" is ridiculous, considering the game's steady growth over the last several years. There's room for more, and a movie will certainly pull them in.
The Final Fantasy comparison is apt, because it was in a similar situation to Magic. Back when Spirits Within came out, the FF brand was strong all over the world, and growing, so to capitalize on that they went and tried to make a mainstream movie out of it and it sucked and had a huge fall-out that ended up getting the creator of FF ousted from the company. Square has sucked ever since, either by correlation or causation. Imagine if the MTG movie is a cataclysm and they end up getting rid of Beyer and MaRo because they were attached to it? Two of the guys who make the game as great as it is might have their jobs on the line because some simpleton opportunist wanted to whore out the game.
D&D's dumb movie is also a good example, but it was largely ignored, which might be the best we can hope for for MTG?
There were a great many factors that lead to the failure of Spirits Within, not least of which was the fact that it was an animesque film released almost fifteen years ago. It was incredibly expensive and the American market was never going to be receptive.
It's hard to say anything with certainty since we have literally zero information about the film, but I would guess that Hasbro and WotC will not be following that path. None of the fantasy movies that have been discussed thus far were really targeting a mainstream demographic. We'll see what comes of it, but I really think that they'll be working with standard Hollywood writers to create a blockbuster popcorn flick. Its greatest flaw will likely be that it will be shallow and fun.
But, once again, this is all baseless speculation.
The more interesting question is what will happen to MtG if it succeeds. I don't know about you, but I plan to pick up some extra copies of whatever planeswalker leads the film.
@ norsedt- Neither MaRo or Beyer are going to be heavily involved in the movie. They would be on as consultants at most. Beyer being in creative would be a little more involved than MaRo. And MaRo certainly isn't writing the script for the movie so no worries there either. Both will still be heavily involved in what the already do that's making Wizards money and thats making sets. Your also forgetting that the film studio is going to have its say in the project. So any thing the studio vetos won't put their heads on the line.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
@ norsedt- Neither MaRo or Beyer are going to be heavily involved in the movie. They would be on as consultants at most. Beyer being in creative would be a little more involved than MaRo. And MaRo certainly isn't writing the script for the movie so no worries there either. Both will still be heavily involved in what the already do that's making Wizards money and thats making sets. Your also forgetting that the film studio is going to have its say in the project. So any thing the studio vetos won't put their heads on the line.
Beyer and Maro, and I think Aaron and one other person are the WotC representatives actively working on the movie's pre-production "closely" with the studio people just fyi
Which inspires confidence and anxiety at the same time
Really think that if the movie goes poorly they would axe the card game completely when they just cited MTG as a source for raking it in? Yeah sure you think executives are stupid but there's a difference between you thinking they're stupid and they are just plain old stupid. Here we have this cash cow making us millions upon millions annually let's kill it. Great business decision. Your level of paranoia about the movie is entirely unfounded.
We know NOTHING of the film and what it will entail. No story has been good in the magic lore? Either you've been just reading the trash from the past 7 years or you've never heard of the brothers war, the whole phyrexian invasion of dominaria, yawgmoth, the ice age cycle, etc. etc. as those are quality novels that I and a lot of others liked. If they pull the movie off correctly and they make an MTG movie as popular as, say, transformers it will be the best thing to ever happen to MTG in terms of how much money they would start raking in. If that happens Hasbro and WotC will be rolling in it indeed.
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():
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
All it needs to be is a semi-alright action movie fit for a mainstream audience with some cool effects, even if it is terrible cinema. That's it, think Transformers. In fact, it will probably just be some generic "fun" storyline with some characters and a big old Magic title slapped on it.
I forgot about the movie, does anyone have an idea when that is going to hit the fan?
Thank you.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Sure Legacy or Vintage is not for the new player that just started a month ago but if you pay attention at not giving away your value over 2 or 3 years, you will then be able to construct an eternal format deck or 2 that you will be able to use to have fun playing those very nice formats.
In fact, if you want to go there, I got one of my 2 playsets of FOW playing a $10 casual tournament 12 yrs ago, I got 2 copies trading 2 Kokusho about 10 yrs ago and I bought the other 2 for $20 each maybe 8 years ago...sure in 2015 you can't do that with FOW but with the next FOW or the next Legacy/Modern/Vintage Staple you are fully capable of doing it...just use your new hot Narset or Ojutai...3 yrs ago you could get Flusterstom for $10, 2 yrs ago you could get Liliana for $25...those are example of buying at low price to build up an eternal collection...
If a player decide to be competitive at every moment of time in the 4-5 main official formats then it's a whole different story and you cannot complain about not being able to play Legacy because it's too expensive...just choose the battle in which you are the most interested...for my part, I concede being competitive in Standard to be able to be a bit more competitve in Modern...
just buy scg..
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
People at Hasbro not understand how magic as a game works and format knowledge? Are you joking? It's heavily likely that a lot of hasbro employees play magic/understand what's going on. You're making it sound like hasbro executives are utter morons when Hasbro is a gigantic company/being an executive isn't exactly easy at a company of that size. The notion that the MTG movie will kill magic is hilarious. If anything it has the potential to make MTG as a game several times more popular/that 13 million number in terms of how many people play MTG now might look tiny in comparison in a few years time. I don't see how the MTG movie could drive people away from the game who are already playing anyways/the movie is all upside in terms of people playing MTG Hasbro knows this otherwise why would they have gone ahead with a movie.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Fortunately, making the game more interactive, better supported, and more accessible is how they're improving value for shareholders and selling more product. Even if Wotc was on their own, they'd still be driven by shareholders.
It doesn't always mean the customer is getting screwed when shareholders are thriving, in fact, it can likely mean the opposite.
Devil's advocate here, I know, but... isn't this precisely what they tried to do with D&D?
Make the game more interactive, more accessible and better supported?
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Sales figures seem to suggest that you are an outlier factor in the equation and that a big majority of paying players have enjoyed those sets.
Not sure, not familiar with DnD. All of those things sound like good changes, but generally loyalists who were playing any game when it was less accessible will dislike a change for accessibility due to their investments and accomplishments and feelings of those being undermined. Just the way it goes (Not sure if this applies to DnD, but World of Warcraft, Dark Souls, and Magic all come to mind)
Well, I'll put it this way. World of Warcraft still dominates the MMO market. That doesn't necessarily make it a good game. It makes it the most played game.
Being owned by Hasbro is probably, on balance, better for Wizards than being an independent company. It gives them connections they wouldn't have otherwise. For instance, my LGS owner has a theory that the Chinese counterfeits the community was working itself up about were stopped because Hasbro talked to the Chinese government, threatened to pull some or all of their Chinese operations, and the government went after the counterfeiters. Wizards on their own wouldn't have been able to do that.
I don't play decks. I solve optimization problems.
Currently solving:
Standard: Too poor for this format.
Modern: GW Auras, Living End, WB TurboFog, UB Mill, UR Storm
Legacy: R Burn, GU Infect, RG Lands, B Contamination
I think the people feeling it will kill magic are worried it won't be some secret niche game they keep hidden away. They want the game to stay small.
Executives are stupid. This is fact. Well, not stupid, sometimes, but it's not their job to know the intricacies of their products. Right now Hasbro leaves WotC alone for the most part, very likely because only Wizards knows how to run this game and there's no reason to interfere in that. Maybe some higher-ups at Hasbro are intimately in touch with MTG's more nuanced rules beyond "it's our enormous money-printing card game brand over in Seattle somewhere", but that doesn't mean they understand the game enough to suggest any reprint decisions. Very few people in Wizards R&D and management have enough knowledge of the game to make those decisions. Do you think Hasbro's global brand manager is a Pro Tour player?
And Magic is already huge. It's the most popular paper game in the world by a long shot, discounting Playing Cards. The Magic movie will do two things:
a. Be really good and pander to the core fan base but not make a ton of money at the box office (this will never happen)
b. Be super generalized and generic and probably bad, like the Final Fantasy movie, in an attempt to half-assedly market the game to millions of people who would never play it to begin with. It still flops and then Hasbro is like "Well MAN, the movie did bad so obviously the game isn't worth investing so much time and money into!" And then people get fired and everything goes awry. We must never forget the sins of The Spirits Within.
MTG has its audience. Trying to grow it out to include to bro-Steve and Aunt Janice isn't going to do anything good for it. The more you attempt to appeal to everyone, the more you appeal to no one at all. This is a basic concept.
The first D&D cost 30 millions and was a flop. It was generic, had known actors and was timed right after 3e came out.
They made a 2nd straight-to-dvd years after. It used unknown actors, was heavily D&D specific and cost very little.
It was vastly superior to the first but still probably made no money because : no one knew about it, and the stigma of the first one.
A magic movie to me seems doomed from the start. The brand has fantastic lore but can't use it well somehow. The never could make novels work. They turned to cartoons, which were better but not very good either. They design this very intricate lore but it's too loose and pointless no one knows it's beginning and end.
They can't get a compelling story going...they'll just put jace and probably Lili and a laughable ajani that will remind us of Jar-Jar in an half-assed story about the multiverse no one understand cause they'll dumb it down too much.
The Final Fantasy comparison is apt, because it was in a similar situation to Magic. Back when Spirits Within came out, the FF brand was strong all over the world, and growing, so to capitalize on that they went and tried to make a mainstream movie out of it and it sucked and had a huge fall-out that ended up getting the creator of FF ousted from the company. Square has sucked ever since, either by correlation or causation. Imagine if the MTG movie is a cataclysm and they end up getting rid of Beyer and MaRo because they were attached to it? Two of the guys who make the game as great as it is might have their jobs on the line because some simpleton opportunist wanted to whore out the game.
D&D's dumb movie is also a good example, but it was largely ignored, which might be the best we can hope for for MTG?
It's hard to say anything with certainty since we have literally zero information about the film, but I would guess that Hasbro and WotC will not be following that path. None of the fantasy movies that have been discussed thus far were really targeting a mainstream demographic. We'll see what comes of it, but I really think that they'll be working with standard Hollywood writers to create a blockbuster popcorn flick. Its greatest flaw will likely be that it will be shallow and fun.
But, once again, this is all baseless speculation.
The more interesting question is what will happen to MtG if it succeeds. I don't know about you, but I plan to pick up some extra copies of whatever planeswalker leads the film.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Beyer and Maro, and I think Aaron and one other person are the WotC representatives actively working on the movie's pre-production "closely" with the studio people just fyi
Which inspires confidence and anxiety at the same time
We know NOTHING of the film and what it will entail. No story has been good in the magic lore? Either you've been just reading the trash from the past 7 years or you've never heard of the brothers war, the whole phyrexian invasion of dominaria, yawgmoth, the ice age cycle, etc. etc. as those are quality novels that I and a lot of others liked. If they pull the movie off correctly and they make an MTG movie as popular as, say, transformers it will be the best thing to ever happen to MTG in terms of how much money they would start raking in. If that happens Hasbro and WotC will be rolling in it indeed.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Did you know that?
Did you know that MaRo wrote for Roseanne?
This movie will be great for product.
or you could get a job?
mythic lotto. add more dragons. boosters that aren't worth opening. ...huzzah!
still, on a long enough time line that gives decent cards worth playing in not standard.