Exactly. I always wonder if Hasbro's shareholders know about the Reserved List and the obscene profit potential of reprinting some of its goodies in foil or Commander products...
Hopefully this news will get Hasbro bigwigs to take a closer look at their cashcow, and to bring in a competent management team and overhaul MTGO. It's funny to me that we can see how horribly run MTGO is, how incompetent the maangement team is, and that the product is still making money hand over fist. Makes you wonder how many other corporations are not maximizing their potentail profits due to horrible management.
someone should tell hasbro that abolishing the reserved list to reprint cards desperately wanted by players would increase their profits.
Wow, that took a long time.
If anything, this is just proof Wizards has no interest in changing their business model regarding the reserve list. They have stated time and time again they have no interest in abolishing it, and if their stock is currently soaring due to booming success, I sincerely doubt they'd chance it for anything so possibly inciting of such community backlash, regardless of possible potential profit.
People keep saying "I wonder if Wizards knows how much they'd make..." Yes. They do. They probably have an incredibly good idea. But they also have no idea what the extent of what they could lose is, and this is why they never will go back on it.
As a shareholder and Magic Player...I don't think I want the reserved list to be removed...
Honestly, I think we are harsh with the Wizards management since they seems to be able to grow the player base steadily and without causing any major shock to the collector/player base.
I'm sure Hasbro management is really proud of the growth rate in MTG...yes maybe they could even go faster but not without shaking either the player or collector base..
22 years and this game is still interesting to play...that is a huge achievement...
Many people seems to think that it would be better if new player could spend $300 or $400 to get the same collection/staples than someone who spent about $150 per set since the very beginning of the game (around $9,000)...I personaly think that if it would be the case it would greatly affect negatively the game....if not it would certainly frustrate me...
someone should tell hasbro that abolishing the reserved list to reprint cards desperately wanted by players would increase their profits.
Wow, that took a long time.
If anything, this is just proof Wizards has no interest in changing their business model regarding the reserve list. They have stated time and time again they have no interest in abolishing it, and if their stock is currently soaring due to booming success, I sincerely doubt they'd chance it for anything so possibly inciting of such community backlash, regardless of possible potential profit.
People keep saying "I wonder if Wizards knows how much they'd make..." Yes. They do. They probably have an incredibly good idea. But they also have no idea what the extent of what they could lose is, and this is why they never will go back on it.
And that would make the entire mtg market unstable, by having the reserve list there is no longer this fear that your expensive card could be reprinted at any time and plummet in value.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain bad at Magic."
-Benjamin "The Innovator" Franklin
Standard:
Nothing, hate standard after Rhino
Modern:
Looking at Evolution Decks, RUG or [mana]WRG[mana]
Legacy:
Shardless Foundry ('Cause I have a crippling addiction to Shardless Agent)BUG (and I'm to broke for goyfs)
EDH: RGUSurrak Dragon Tribal!RGU URArjun StormUR GUEzuri TokensGU GRBUYidris GoodstuffGRBU
22 years and this game is still interesting to play
Well, that's debatable. The past four blocks seem to have been a competition to see which could bore me the most. It's gotten to the point that I entirely gave up on Standard, because I just can't muster up the energy to care anymore. Maybe Battle for Zendikar will change that. Who knows?
Hopefully this news will get Hasbro bigwigs to take a closer look at their cashcow, and to bring in a competent management team and overhaul MTGO. It's funny to me that we can see how horribly run MTGO is, how incompetent the maangement team is, and that the product is still making money hand over fist. Makes you wonder how many other corporations are not maximizing their potentail profits due to horrible management.
Yes, all successful companies crack down hard on products that are wildly profitable.
Trust me, I really don't support or condone the reserve list, and if I ran Wizards it wouldn't exist.
BUT
I don't run Wizards, and the chances of me doing so at any point in time are roughly absolute zero, so unfortunately I and everyone else will simply have to accept what Wizards has reiterated nonstop: the reserve list is here to stay. I don't like it, I don't appreciate it, but it's something that exists and won't be revoked, not in any foreseeable time anyway.
I am just sick of every thread anymore resulting in price talks, reserve list discussions, and other nonsense. Every conceivable argument about the topic is simply a repost of a repost anymore. I accepted the reserve list when I chose to get into Legacy, and I continue to do so. If you think the reserve list is a bad thing that makes the game unplayable, well I can sympathize with you in certain aspects. But when you fail to acknowledge why this is a reality, then I can't bring myself to feel sorry.
Well, that's debatable. The past four blocks seem to have been a competition to see which could bore me the most. It's gotten to the point that I entirely gave up on Standard, because I just can't muster up the energy to care anymore. Maybe Battle for Zendikar will change that. Who knows?
I can understand the criticism of Theros and Khans blocks, and maybe Return to Ravnica too, but did you really find Innistrad boring? That's not something I hear too often.
Hopefully this news will get Hasbro bigwigs to take a closer look at their cashcow, and to bring in a competent management team and overhaul MTGO. It's funny to me that we can see how horribly run MTGO is, how incompetent the maangement team is, and that the product is still making money hand over fist. Makes you wonder how many other corporations are not maximizing their potentail profits due to horrible management.
Yes, all successful companies crack down hard on products that are wildly profitable.
Exhibit A of short-sighted, results oriented thinking. MTGO is doing well because it's a way to play magic online. It's extremely poorly run, programmed, and managed. It's making money in spite of itself, not because it's a good program or well run. When Hasbro examines Magic for growth potential, getting a competent management team and a coherent long term strategy in place will likely be a top priority.
I'm fairly certain they'll circumvent the reserve list in some way again in the future if it becomes opportune to do so, or ditch it entirely if the game starts to tank but that is neither here nor there.
However, I think that people that have spent a lot of time playing MTG lose focus in this discussion. Old players are naturally a declining population and this game survives on bringing in new blood continually to keep spending money. Most of them are not, and will not ever be interested in playing legacy and vintage and can't afford to even if they are. Then there is the intimidation factor of having to work with thousands of cards and millions of combinations.
Thus I'd say the potential gain of reprinting in demand reserve list cards is far less than people estimate. The older players present on the forums make the interest seem disproportionate, since they far outnumber kitchen table magic players and all other breeds of casual players online, but not in the real world, where it counts. To them, your underground seas are about as valuable as storm crows.
I wish I could play those formats, but the price is prohibitive and will stay prohibitive, RL or no (modern is prohibitive too, but that's another story altogether). It would take a massive reprinting of many cards, many of which are not even on the RL to drive the prices down... and its never going to happen. Look at how gingerly they treat Modern's money cards, so gingerly that the format continues to creep up in price... do you think they're going to loosen up with Legacy and Vintage ones?
I feel sorry for those who want to play those formats and have the cards but too few people to play with. Sadly planned obsolescence is part of the product and the appearance of Modern tells you everything you need to know about WotC's intentions regarding older formats. They're never going to tell you openly to pack your cards in the closet and forget about them, but if you read between the lines.. that's the message and has been for a while.
I think that older formats, whilst harder to master, are actually easier for new players to get into and enjoy than standard. This is because there are already proven archetypes and the new players need not worry about the millions of combinations of cards as the most effective combinations in most cases have already been found and can be found quite easily on forums such as this. I do think that new players after the initial entrance phase ARE interested in underground seas more than storm crows. You also forget about the most important kitchen table format that would love to have reasonable access to old staples and that is commander. I know lots of people who would love to create a 5 color commander deck but if you want to have a fine tuned 5c list you need all the duals. I agree that Wizards currently is given no haste to take action in reprinting, in high enough quantity, cards for modern, but they have reprinted legacy staples like stifle and misdirection in conspiracy and I hope that trend continues. I think Wizards does realize that not everyone was around 20 years ago and that newer players should at least have a fair sht at getting some older staples. I think it will be a long time coming, but eventually staples will be reprinted and in good quantity.
someone should tell hasbro that abolishing the reserved list to reprint cards desperately wanted by players would increase their profits.
Wow, that took a long time.
If anything, this is just proof Wizards has no interest in changing their business model regarding the reserve list. They have stated time and time again they have no interest in abolishing it, and if their stock is currently soaring due to booming success, I sincerely doubt they'd chance it for anything so possibly inciting of such community backlash, regardless of possible potential profit.
People keep saying "I wonder if Wizards knows how much they'd make..." Yes. They do. They probably have an incredibly good idea. But they also have no idea what the extent of what they could lose is, and this is why they never will go back on it.
And that would make the entire mtg market unstable, by having the reserve list there is no longer this fear that your expensive card could be reprinted at any time and plummet in value.
Because the fear ofreprinting of Tarmogoyf has made it plummet in value to a measly 200$.
Modern is full of expensive cards that can be reprinted at any time and I don't see people lining up to cash out.
Where do you people come up with these theories?
But even if they ditched the reserve list, they'd never introduce the cards in large numbers so it would probably take years of slow, gradual reprinting for the prices of Legacy and Vintage to come down to what most people would consider tolerable if they're just starting MTG or they don't have a large collection.
That's why most players should probably forget about those formats instead of hoping for reprints.
Agree 100%. Nobody just wakes up one day and says "i think i'll drop 5 figures on vintage staples"
There's way to get your eternal playable without fetching hundred of dollars...it is called anticipation...it is called card evaluation...it is called not handing all the bulk you have to store for the new Narset...
I never spent more than $20 on a single card (except 1 $50 Jace as a gift) and don't expect to do so in the future...you can trade for high value card and/or you can buy them cheap since most card go through a ''cheap'' period and when you are patient you are able to get that low price..
Most of the card I owned that are over $30 where bought in the low $10 and some where bought in the 1-2$ card bin (or Internet)...
There's a few things hurting you when trying to build up a collection of eternal staples..it is selling to store/player at 50-70% of the value...it is buying standard new buzz a week after release (rather than 3-4 months after release and/or after rotation)...it is pre-ordering...it is selling 100x rares for $10 because if only 1 card in this hundred start getting some attention you will be the loser of that trade in...
Some of the players raging after the reserved list have own those eternal staples in their life but decide to trade/sell them away...and on the other side there are the new players that have no interest because they were told that without having those $100+ cards they can't have fun playing Legacy...it's not true...they are cheap alternatives and there's casual legacy that give them a feeling of the real thing and can make them better magic player...
I must admit that more effort should be giving to promoting those old eternal format but not necesarly by overprinting every old staples to drive their price down but by printing legacy playable cards in new set and by reprinting an old non reserved-list staple a few times a years(or even a better version of a reserved-list card if you want to shake thing up a bit)
I think Hasbro made more money Q1 because they raised their wholesale prices. MTG players buy a ton of cards and the profit from that gets divvied up among shareholders. It's a dark thought, but Hasbro is driven by the need to pay shareholders, not make a better Magic the Gathering...it's too bad WOTC isn't an independent company.
This doesn't surprise me. MTG has been thriving in recent years, especially since SoM. Good on them.
I think Hasbro made more money Q1 because they raised their wholesale prices. MTG players buy a ton of cards and the profit from that gets divvied up among shareholders. It's a dark thought, but Hasbro is driven by the need to pay shareholders, not make a better Magic the Gathering...it's too bad WOTC isn't an independent company.
I don't think Hasbro is involved in design and development at all. They probably just say "release x new sets/products per year". WOTC is making MTG good.
Reserve list being stupid or not, the last thing anyone wants is Hasbro execs ****ing with Wizards' autonomous decision-making. You will not like what happens when suits get involved in the things you care about. That Magic movie might kill everything as it is.
someone should tell hasbro that abolishing the reserved list to reprint cards desperately wanted by players would increase their profits.
I suspect that Modern Masters is probably Hasbro's doing. I hope they push WOTC for more reprints of older cards. I think WOTC on their own would not have done something like MM and it is the results of Hasbro's orders.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
someone should tell hasbro that abolishing the reserved list to reprint cards desperately wanted by players would increase their profits.
I suspect that Modern Masters is probably Hasbro's doing. I hope they push WOTC for more reprints of older cards. I think WOTC on their own would not have done something like MM and it is the results of Hasbro's orders.
It is extremely unlikely that anyone at Hasbro understands Magic formats or healthy reprint policy. If anything a Hasbro exec was like "How can we keep this product strong?" and WotC was like "we have these eternal formats blah blah" and Hasbro was like "Eternal what? Yeah, cool, I guess. You guys do you."
As much as I'd like to believe that I'd really love to hear how you get 4 Force of Wills (430$ total), for example, for 20$ each in 2015.
I remember trading Balduvian Horde for entire playsets of Force of Will. That's how most long term players have all of these expensive cards. You see a $200+ Tundra, and I see a land that I traded a Shivan Dragon for back when revised was still on game shelves.
Did you see the new Top Hat piece? It's overpowered to the point of being broken.
Please keep reserved list discussion to the dedicated topic found here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334928-reserved-list-discussion -LouCypher-
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Wow, that took a long time.
If anything, this is just proof Wizards has no interest in changing their business model regarding the reserve list. They have stated time and time again they have no interest in abolishing it, and if their stock is currently soaring due to booming success, I sincerely doubt they'd chance it for anything so possibly inciting of such community backlash, regardless of possible potential profit.
People keep saying "I wonder if Wizards knows how much they'd make..." Yes. They do. They probably have an incredibly good idea. But they also have no idea what the extent of what they could lose is, and this is why they never will go back on it.
Honestly, I think we are harsh with the Wizards management since they seems to be able to grow the player base steadily and without causing any major shock to the collector/player base.
I'm sure Hasbro management is really proud of the growth rate in MTG...yes maybe they could even go faster but not without shaking either the player or collector base..
22 years and this game is still interesting to play...that is a huge achievement...
Many people seems to think that it would be better if new player could spend $300 or $400 to get the same collection/staples than someone who spent about $150 per set since the very beginning of the game (around $9,000)...I personaly think that if it would be the case it would greatly affect negatively the game....if not it would certainly frustrate me...
And that would make the entire mtg market unstable, by having the reserve list there is no longer this fear that your expensive card could be reprinted at any time and plummet in value.
-Benjamin "The Innovator" Franklin
Standard:
Nothing, hate standard after Rhino
Modern:
Looking at Evolution Decks, RUG or [mana]WRG[mana]
Legacy:
Shardless Foundry ('Cause I have a crippling addiction to Shardless Agent) BUG (and I'm to broke for goyfs)
EDH:
RGUSurrak Dragon Tribal!RGU
URArjun StormUR
GUEzuri TokensGU
GRBUYidris GoodstuffGRBU
Well, that's debatable. The past four blocks seem to have been a competition to see which could bore me the most. It's gotten to the point that I entirely gave up on Standard, because I just can't muster up the energy to care anymore. Maybe Battle for Zendikar will change that. Who knows?
Not to mention that after modern master about three hundred people got there playsets as well. /snarky.
Yes, all successful companies crack down hard on products that are wildly profitable.
Trust me, I really don't support or condone the reserve list, and if I ran Wizards it wouldn't exist.
BUT
I don't run Wizards, and the chances of me doing so at any point in time are roughly absolute zero, so unfortunately I and everyone else will simply have to accept what Wizards has reiterated nonstop: the reserve list is here to stay. I don't like it, I don't appreciate it, but it's something that exists and won't be revoked, not in any foreseeable time anyway.
I am just sick of every thread anymore resulting in price talks, reserve list discussions, and other nonsense. Every conceivable argument about the topic is simply a repost of a repost anymore. I accepted the reserve list when I chose to get into Legacy, and I continue to do so. If you think the reserve list is a bad thing that makes the game unplayable, well I can sympathize with you in certain aspects. But when you fail to acknowledge why this is a reality, then I can't bring myself to feel sorry.
I can understand the criticism of Theros and Khans blocks, and maybe Return to Ravnica too, but did you really find Innistrad boring? That's not something I hear too often.
Exhibit A of short-sighted, results oriented thinking. MTGO is doing well because it's a way to play magic online. It's extremely poorly run, programmed, and managed. It's making money in spite of itself, not because it's a good program or well run. When Hasbro examines Magic for growth potential, getting a competent management team and a coherent long term strategy in place will likely be a top priority.
I think that older formats, whilst harder to master, are actually easier for new players to get into and enjoy than standard. This is because there are already proven archetypes and the new players need not worry about the millions of combinations of cards as the most effective combinations in most cases have already been found and can be found quite easily on forums such as this. I do think that new players after the initial entrance phase ARE interested in underground seas more than storm crows. You also forget about the most important kitchen table format that would love to have reasonable access to old staples and that is commander. I know lots of people who would love to create a 5 color commander deck but if you want to have a fine tuned 5c list you need all the duals. I agree that Wizards currently is given no haste to take action in reprinting, in high enough quantity, cards for modern, but they have reprinted legacy staples like stifle and misdirection in conspiracy and I hope that trend continues. I think Wizards does realize that not everyone was around 20 years ago and that newer players should at least have a fair sht at getting some older staples. I think it will be a long time coming, but eventually staples will be reprinted and in good quantity.
Agree 100%. Nobody just wakes up one day and says "i think i'll drop 5 figures on vintage staples"
I never spent more than $20 on a single card (except 1 $50 Jace as a gift) and don't expect to do so in the future...you can trade for high value card and/or you can buy them cheap since most card go through a ''cheap'' period and when you are patient you are able to get that low price..
Most of the card I owned that are over $30 where bought in the low $10 and some where bought in the 1-2$ card bin (or Internet)...
There's a few things hurting you when trying to build up a collection of eternal staples..it is selling to store/player at 50-70% of the value...it is buying standard new buzz a week after release (rather than 3-4 months after release and/or after rotation)...it is pre-ordering...it is selling 100x rares for $10 because if only 1 card in this hundred start getting some attention you will be the loser of that trade in...
Some of the players raging after the reserved list have own those eternal staples in their life but decide to trade/sell them away...and on the other side there are the new players that have no interest because they were told that without having those $100+ cards they can't have fun playing Legacy...it's not true...they are cheap alternatives and there's casual legacy that give them a feeling of the real thing and can make them better magic player...
I must admit that more effort should be giving to promoting those old eternal format but not necesarly by overprinting every old staples to drive their price down but by printing legacy playable cards in new set and by reprinting an old non reserved-list staple a few times a years(or even a better version of a reserved-list card if you want to shake thing up a bit)
I don't think Hasbro is involved in design and development at all. They probably just say "release x new sets/products per year". WOTC is making MTG good.
I suspect that Modern Masters is probably Hasbro's doing. I hope they push WOTC for more reprints of older cards. I think WOTC on their own would not have done something like MM and it is the results of Hasbro's orders.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
It is extremely unlikely that anyone at Hasbro understands Magic formats or healthy reprint policy. If anything a Hasbro exec was like "How can we keep this product strong?" and WotC was like "we have these eternal formats blah blah" and Hasbro was like "Eternal what? Yeah, cool, I guess. You guys do you."
I love MTG!
I love DragonLance!
I remember trading Balduvian Horde for entire playsets of Force of Will. That's how most long term players have all of these expensive cards. You see a $200+ Tundra, and I see a land that I traded a Shivan Dragon for back when revised was still on game shelves.