I don't like DFCs at all honestly. I'm the minority but I just can't stand them. I'd prefer if the Legendary could be sacrificed when its condition is met and you get to place the PW version from your hand/deck onto the battlefield, instead. IMO.
No. I'm so glad that they didn't go with what half of the Rumor Mill was suggesting. Completely separate cards is fine. DFC cards are fine. But super clunky "Sac this for a planeswalker" cards are silly. Logistically, you aren't likely to have the planeswalker half to go with your legendary in limited, the planeswalker cards have to be better than the legendaries or you wouldn't ever sac, which means you have either:
Weak legendary, Strong planeswalker which makes opening the legendary a feel bad.
or
Strong legendary, stronger planeswalker. But the planeswalker can't be too powerful and pushed on it's own for balance sake, so you'll end up with a lot of high cost planeswalkers, which makes opening those feel worse (this totally depends on the format obviously, but I'm not always super happy to open Garruk, Apex Predator when it comes to winning a draft, if you know what I mean). Also, storywise, it makes less sense to have fledgling Planeswalkers also have 6+cmc cards.
Its funny to read all the positive comments now about the prospect of having DFCs in the future and remembering how negative everyone was about them when they were first announced to be in ISD.
I have to admit I thought the idea of DFCs was silly when they were first anounced too but ended up really enjoying a lot them. I have at least 7 of them in my cube that I can think of off the top of my head.
Its funny to read all the positive comments now about the prospect of having DFCs in the future and remembering how negative everyone was about them when they were first announced to be in ISD.
I have to admit I thought the idea of DFCs was silly when they were first anounced too but ended up really enjoying a lot them. I have at least 7 of them in my cube that I can think of off the top of my head.
Much ink has already been spilled discussing how much better DFCs play than how they look at first blush. I think most people were alarmed at the breaking of an as-yet unbroken rule. Once people got to play with them they realised the concerns they had weren't such a big deal (well, most people feel that way, as you can see there are still some in this thread who have a different opinion).
Also I suspect the prospect of a Legendary Werewolf and/or Delver reprints are not insignificant factors in the excitement for future DFCs.
I think it is important to remember that they have started using more advance printing techniques since innistrad. These came along with the M15 Frame. So it is possible that they may now be able to put a DFC on the normal Rare sheet.
MaRo often says that it's not financially viable to reprint only a handful of DFCs, which is why they'r not deciduous or in supplemental products. Maybe they found a way to make it more cost effective.
I imagine they just did a smaller print run and repeated those same five walkers over and over.
I'm okay with this. Core sets contain a large percentage of reprints, so at this point that would basically mean an Innistrad revisit... which I suspect is in the works as a set itself.
I, personally, like the transform-'walkers, if only because they can go in my Animar EDH deck, despite my self-imposed restriction of creatures and lands only.
The planeswalker themselves sell packs. Only having them as sole dfc won't be a financial issue.
But does this mean DFC in BfZendikar ??? There hasn't been a use for the dfc cards recently, so it has to be after their reinclusion in a major release, and this is supposed to be the last big 'core set' type release. To leave out dfc until Innistrad again in 2-3 years would be a shame.
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I have neither the skill to correctly and accurately analyze this set in the context of current and future formats after 12 hours of exposure, nor the hubris to delude myself into believing that I do.
I have a strong feeling that this is proof-of-concepting for the next Modern Masters set, which would theoretically have the pool of available cards increased to include Innistrad (and probably later sets.) This would allow them to reprint the likes of Huntmaster and Delver in an MM set where at least Delver is a key card to an entire archetype that Wizards may want available to newer players. This could also PoC for when they inevitably return to Innistrad, that way they don't have to come up with TONS of DFC to make an entire sheet, they could just make DFC's that make sense. Also also, this could be a way for them to reflect a story in the future about a character on a plane we are visiting becoming a 'Walker, reflected in much the same way that they are showing the backstory of existing 'Walkers with which we are already familiar.
Definitely makes Rip or Flip less interesting #sarcasm.
I really like the legendary to planeswalker transformation concept. I'm certain that this is going to be a one-off for at least a long time, but I would love to see them revisit the idea. It's much better than the old kamigawa flip cards, to say the least.
Its funny to read all the positive comments now about the prospect of having DFCs in the future and remembering how negative everyone was about them when they were first announced to be in ISD.
I have to admit I thought the idea of DFCs was silly when they were first anounced too but ended up really enjoying a lot them. I have at least 7 of them in my cube that I can think of off the top of my head.
well, nothing changed for me at least. I just thought it would be kinda unnecessary to mention again how much I dislike them. I want to play magic and not have the feeling I'm playing Yu-Gi-Oh. They seem pretty cool for EDH though.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
Barring Delver of Secrets, there're isn't a huge demand for DFCs. Not sure if Wizards intended for it to happen.
Eh, it's just the nature of the game that 99% of everything is poo. Huntmaster sells for about 5 bux, Bloodline Keeper is pretty cool, the vampire girl that turns into a bat is a cute card; that we even remember these things out of the thousands of cards we've seen is testament to their success.
I think it is important to remember that they have started using more advance printing techniques since innistrad. These came along with the M15 Frame. So it is possible that they may now be able to put a DFC on the normal Rare sheet.
I imagine they just did a smaller print run and repeated those same five walkers over and over.
Guys, you're overthinking things.
There's a rare sheet. Each rare appears twice on it. Each mythic, once. This is inserted into the single guaranteed rare slot. Intermixing a separate source would be unwieldy to say the least.
What's going on here, is that they put the effort into ensuring the double sided cards matched correctly. Essentially, they splurged and made the entire rare sheet "double sided". Just... for the vast majority of cards on the sheet, the backside is just the standard back.
For Innistrad, there was no reason why the double sided cards could not have appeared on the common, uncommon, and rare sheets. But it would have taken them three times as much QA to ensure there were no errors and everything matched up, so is was faster and cheaper to isolate the effort to one sheet. Maybe for Innistrad 2 they'll take the full splurge. Even hiring someone with some software to automate the layout process, you have to check every single card front and back and go off a checklist before printing en masse.
Barring Delver of Secrets, there're isn't a huge demand for DFCs. Not sure if Wizards intended for it to happen.
Eh, it's just the nature of the game that 99% of everything is poo. Huntmaster sells for about 5 bux, Bloodline Keeper is pretty cool, the vampire girl that turns into a bat is a cute card; that we even remember these things out of the thousands of cards we've seen is testament to their success.
I think it is important to remember that they have started using more advance printing techniques since innistrad. These came along with the M15 Frame. So it is possible that they may now be able to put a DFC on the normal Rare sheet.
I imagine they just did a smaller print run and repeated those same five walkers over and over.
Guys, you're overthinking things.
There's a rare sheet. Each rare appears twice on it. Each mythic, once. This is inserted into the single guaranteed rare slot. Intermixing a separate source would be unwieldy to say the least.
What's going on here, is that they put the effort into ensuring the double sided cards matched correctly. Essentially, they splurged and made the entire rare sheet "double sided". Just... for the vast majority of cards on the sheet, the backside is just the standard back.
For Innistrad, there was no reason why the double sided cards could not have appeared on the common, uncommon, and rare sheets. But it would have taken them three times as much QA to ensure there were no errors and everything matched up, so is was faster and cheaper to isolate the effort to one sheet. Maybe for Innistrad 2 they'll take the full splurge. Even hiring someone with some software to automate the layout process, you have to check every single card front and back and go off a checklist before printing en masse.
The number crunching disagrees with you. The unusual size of this set is consistent with a separate sheet of double-faced mythics, presumably inserted in place of the regular rare/mythic in a manner similar to foils being inserted in place of a common. The process you describe has been suggested on MaRo's blog a few times and the answer has been that the cost would be prohibitive. I don't see any reason to believe that they just decided to eat that cost here, when a cheaper alternative which better explains the evidence we have has been proposed.
Somewhat surprising, considering what has been said about small amounts of DFC being cost-inefficient, but I guess it makes sense if they simply do them on a separate print sheet (the math showing that to be likely). Because they are all mythics, the separate sheets could probably work quite easily (would have a lot more problems if there were DFCs at all rarities).
I also wonder if this means Huntmaster of the fells and delver in next Modern Masters
I also wonder if this means Huntmaster of the fells and delver in next Modern Masters
Well, strictly speaking the next Modern Masters is MM2015, which won't contain anything from Innistrad. Assuming you meant the subsequent Modern Masters, I figure it's possible they'll just have a separate DFC sheet like in Innistrad and Dark Ascension. They could make Werewolves a draftable archetype and find 20 DFCs to reprint easily enough.
I think everyone could forsaw this, but I think they are wasting an opportunity here. The mechanic is really good and fun to play so I expected at least five other cards to have this ability (besides the planeswalkers, of course) so at least a part of the players during a pre-release could experience using a transforming card.
However this is how it is, just another core set with a name stamped on it.
Huge missed opportunity, although my guess is that they needed a way to show the planeswalkers' sparks igniting and DFCs happened to be the best way to do it.
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No. I'm so glad that they didn't go with what half of the Rumor Mill was suggesting. Completely separate cards is fine. DFC cards are fine. But super clunky "Sac this for a planeswalker" cards are silly. Logistically, you aren't likely to have the planeswalker half to go with your legendary in limited, the planeswalker cards have to be better than the legendaries or you wouldn't ever sac, which means you have either:
Weak legendary, Strong planeswalker which makes opening the legendary a feel bad.
or
Strong legendary, stronger planeswalker. But the planeswalker can't be too powerful and pushed on it's own for balance sake, so you'll end up with a lot of high cost planeswalkers, which makes opening those feel worse (this totally depends on the format obviously, but I'm not always super happy to open Garruk, Apex Predator when it comes to winning a draft, if you know what I mean). Also, storywise, it makes less sense to have fledgling Planeswalkers also have 6+cmc cards.
I have to admit I thought the idea of DFCs was silly when they were first anounced too but ended up really enjoying a lot them. I have at least 7 of them in my cube that I can think of off the top of my head.
Much ink has already been spilled discussing how much better DFCs play than how they look at first blush. I think most people were alarmed at the breaking of an as-yet unbroken rule. Once people got to play with them they realised the concerns they had weren't such a big deal (well, most people feel that way, as you can see there are still some in this thread who have a different opinion).
Also I suspect the prospect of a Legendary Werewolf and/or Delver reprints are not insignificant factors in the excitement for future DFCs.
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I'm okay with this. Core sets contain a large percentage of reprints, so at this point that would basically mean an Innistrad revisit... which I suspect is in the works as a set itself.
UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU's prison: blue is the new orange is the new black.
Mizzix Of The Izmagnus : wheels on fire... rolling down the road...
BSidisi, Undead VizierB: Bis zum Erbrechen
GTitiania, Protector Of ArgothG: Protecting Argoth, by blowing it up!
GYisan, The Wanderer BardG: Gradus Ad Elfball.
Duel EDH: Yisan & Titania.
In Progress: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV duel; Grenzo, Dungeon Warden Doomsday.
I actually like DFCs quite abit. So it's a shame we wouldn't get more than the 5 walkers.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
But does this mean DFC in BfZendikar ??? There hasn't been a use for the dfc cards recently, so it has to be after their reinclusion in a major release, and this is supposed to be the last big 'core set' type release. To leave out dfc until Innistrad again in 2-3 years would be a shame.
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
360 Peasant Cube!
Custom Cube
RWU Miracles RWU
That would be tremendously exciting, if not for the fact that they will almost certainly be impossible to get ahold of lol
Everyone should learn from this
I really like the legendary to planeswalker transformation concept. I'm certain that this is going to be a one-off for at least a long time, but I would love to see them revisit the idea. It's much better than the old kamigawa flip cards, to say the least.
well, nothing changed for me at least. I just thought it would be kinda unnecessary to mention again how much I dislike them. I want to play magic and not have the feeling I'm playing Yu-Gi-Oh. They seem pretty cool for EDH though.
Eh, it's just the nature of the game that 99% of everything is poo. Huntmaster sells for about 5 bux, Bloodline Keeper is pretty cool, the vampire girl that turns into a bat is a cute card; that we even remember these things out of the thousands of cards we've seen is testament to their success.
Guys, you're overthinking things.
There's a rare sheet. Each rare appears twice on it. Each mythic, once. This is inserted into the single guaranteed rare slot. Intermixing a separate source would be unwieldy to say the least.
What's going on here, is that they put the effort into ensuring the double sided cards matched correctly. Essentially, they splurged and made the entire rare sheet "double sided". Just... for the vast majority of cards on the sheet, the backside is just the standard back.
For Innistrad, there was no reason why the double sided cards could not have appeared on the common, uncommon, and rare sheets. But it would have taken them three times as much QA to ensure there were no errors and everything matched up, so is was faster and cheaper to isolate the effort to one sheet. Maybe for Innistrad 2 they'll take the full splurge. Even hiring someone with some software to automate the layout process, you have to check every single card front and back and go off a checklist before printing en masse.
The number crunching disagrees with you. The unusual size of this set is consistent with a separate sheet of double-faced mythics, presumably inserted in place of the regular rare/mythic in a manner similar to foils being inserted in place of a common. The process you describe has been suggested on MaRo's blog a few times and the answer has been that the cost would be prohibitive. I don't see any reason to believe that they just decided to eat that cost here, when a cheaper alternative which better explains the evidence we have has been proposed.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I also wonder if this means Huntmaster of the fells and delver in next Modern Masters
Well, strictly speaking the next Modern Masters is MM2015, which won't contain anything from Innistrad. Assuming you meant the subsequent Modern Masters, I figure it's possible they'll just have a separate DFC sheet like in Innistrad and Dark Ascension. They could make Werewolves a draftable archetype and find 20 DFCs to reprint easily enough.
However this is how it is, just another core set with a name stamped on it.