Bad card is bad. If some rogue dragon deck in standard that really wants to leave up UU, then MAYBE its a 2 of?
This has to be one of the worst "almost counterspell" ever printed.
Why not just play Dissolve? Even if I don't need the dragon in play to get it, I'd rather pay 1 colorless to not have my opponent know I have a dragon AND scry. The risk v reward is just too high. If you don't have the dragon, its an overcosted Force Spike.
Ah, MTGS, I think you're on a spoil high. Not every card spoiled is busted. New and exciting maybe, but this card is going to be WORSE than Familiar's Ruse. Anybody remember that card? Nah, me neither.
This isn't that bad. A lot of decks right now are trying to play on the curve as much as possible, the pay 1 is actually not as bad as it may seem. Having a dragon also just makes it better. We may see a Jeskai control deck running this or even UW control.
People are kind of overvaluing the "surprise" factor of a Dragon in your hand. It's a legitimate thing to consider in limited, definitely (even though you aren't trying to pack lots of counters into your limited deck anyway), but it's not as if I'm playing against UB Control, they show me Silumgar and it just blows my mind. I'm assuming with all of their card draw and 6+ turns that they probably already have the Silumgar. Especially in a format filled with "Look at your opponent's hand" type effects.
Mana leak is very often just going to be the call in most every situation ever. Even with nameless inversion as an option, leak typically works when you need it where you need it.
Modern Jeskai Dragons Control - is it possible with this card?
Just use resilient Dragons as finishers in a critical mass, so you always have Dragons on the field or in your hand?
Anger of the Gods and Wrath of God as sweepers?
Combine with Mana Leak for early game pressure?
A problem is, as always, that blue lacks powerful card draw in Modern..?
But how many dragons are you going to put in your deck? As a control deck you want a handful of finishers. Since the good ones start from 4 mana any opening hands with a dragon or 2 are really bad. You're almost never going to slam a turn 4 dragon. An opening hand with 3 lands, 2 silumgars score and say 2 thundermaw hellkite is far far worse than if you used a current deck setup and had 3 lands, 2 mana leaks and 2 interactive early spells.
Severely overrated card. Far too conditional to be reliable, might see fringe play in Standard, but it's just another not-good-enough counter in Modern.
This card is sweet. I've wanted stubborn denial to be like this more times than I can count, just countering non-creatures is a pain. I really hope there's a deck that uses this AND stubborn denial. Dragon-tempo, anyone?
On another note, how many dragons do you think there will need to be in a deck to be able to have 1 reliably in hand by turn 3 or so? Will 4 stormbreath and 4 thunderbreak regent be enough?
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I hope this is a sign Wizards is considering a full-out Counterspell reprint.
As is, I don't think it is playable in any Modern deck I'm aware of. We'd need a strong dragon card, or more cards with Changeling to see that happen. Perhaps if they made a Dragon-Wall, or Kraken Hatchling.
In Standard, however, I think this is a seriously strong card. Turn 2 it's going to buy you time countering one of the opponent's first spells. By turn 5 or 6, you probably have an Ojutai or Silumgar in hand, and you can just reveal it.
Note that revealing Dragonlord Ojutai isn't really a cost, but revealing Dragonlord Silumgar *is* a real cost if the opponent has a planeswalker, you can't just let it tick up to ultimate then go 'Surprise! I'll take *that*, always wanted to know how it feels to ultimate Ugin'.
Very late game, this does an outstanding job of protecting Ojutai.
Modern Jeskai Dragons Control - is it possible with this card?
Just use resilient Dragons as finishers in a critical mass, so you always have Dragons on the field or in your hand?
Anger of the Gods and Wrath of God as sweepers?
Combine with Mana Leak for early game pressure?
A problem is, as always, that blue lacks powerful card draw in Modern..?
But how many dragons are you going to put in your deck? As a control deck you want a handful of finishers. Since the good ones start from 4 mana any opening hands with a dragon or 2 are really bad. You're almost never going to slam a turn 4 dragon. An opening hand with 3 lands, 2 silumgars score and say 2 thundermaw hellkite is far far worse than if you used a current deck setup and had 3 lands, 2 mana leaks and 2 interactive early spells.
Good point - I just want Modern to see some control beyonf BGx decks.
the proper Counterspell reprint MaRo has said is plausible.
When did he say that? Seriously, if he said it, I'd love to know. I'm really hoping that Origins=Jace flavored counterspell, but it seems like a pipe dream at this point.
At any rate, this is a step in the right direction, even if it turns out to be subpar. The more I think about it, I just can't think of any changeling or dragon cards that would be modern (Control) playable other than mutavault or nameless inversion. Inversion is OK removal but better options exist (hard to go with it over say dismember) and 'vault is not useful in the hand. Crib Swap seems pretty terrible and mothdust changeling hasn't really been playable in any modern fae build (I think). As for dragons, I can't think of any that are playable in modern other than thundermaw hellkite and he's in a different strategy.
Something like eternal dragon would be great for this card, due to the fact that it would be easy to include while supporting a control gameplan and smoothing the deck out overall.
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the proper Counterspell reprint MaRo has said is plausible.
When did he say that? Seriously, if he said it, I'd love to know. I'm really hoping that Origins=Jace flavored counterspell, but it seems like a pipe dream at this point.
At any rate, this is a step in the right direction, even if it turns out to be subpar. The more I think about it, I just can't think of any changeling or dragon cards that would be modern (Control) playable other than mutavault or nameless inversion. Inversion is OK removal but better options exist (hard to go with it over say dismember) and 'vault is not useful in the hand. Crib Swap seems pretty terrible and mothdust changeling hasn't really been playable in any modern fae build (I think). As for dragons, I can't think of any that are playable in modern other than thundermaw hellkite and he's in a different strategy.
Something like eternal dragon would be great for this card, due to the fact that it would be easy to include while supporting a control gameplan and smoothing the deck out overall.
I'm on my phone right now and I don't have the link handy, but if you check my recent posts from the last month or so, I've shared it before. It's from his blog and he compares Counterspell to Lightning Bolt in that he thinks it would warp Standard but would ultimately be plausible.
This has to be one of the worst "almost counterspell" ever printed.
Why not just play Dissolve? Even if I don't need the dragon in play to get it, I'd rather pay 1 colorless to not have my opponent know I have a dragon AND scry. The risk v reward is just too high. If you don't have the dragon, its an overcosted Force Spike.
Ah, MTGS, I think you're on a spoil high. Not every card spoiled is busted. New and exciting maybe, but this card is going to be WORSE than Familiar's Ruse. Anybody remember that card? Nah, me neither.
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Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Standard:
UR Ral Combo
Modern:
U Merfolk
R Goblins
Commander
RB Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
R Feldon of the Third Path
3x Dragonlord Ojutai
2x Silumgar, the Drifting Death
2x Dragonlord Silumgar
+
2x Silumgar's Scorn?
I'm thinking you'd need to put at least 6 dragons in the deck to make it playable most of the time...
EDH: UBRJeleva | GURSurrak
Please print a Morphling Dragon to go with this...
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But how many dragons are you going to put in your deck? As a control deck you want a handful of finishers. Since the good ones start from 4 mana any opening hands with a dragon or 2 are really bad. You're almost never going to slam a turn 4 dragon. An opening hand with 3 lands, 2 silumgars score and say 2 thundermaw hellkite is far far worse than if you used a current deck setup and had 3 lands, 2 mana leaks and 2 interactive early spells.
On another note, how many dragons do you think there will need to be in a deck to be able to have 1 reliably in hand by turn 3 or so? Will 4 stormbreath and 4 thunderbreak regent be enough?
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
As is, I don't think it is playable in any Modern deck I'm aware of. We'd need a strong dragon card, or more cards with Changeling to see that happen. Perhaps if they made a Dragon-Wall, or Kraken Hatchling.
In Standard, however, I think this is a seriously strong card. Turn 2 it's going to buy you time countering one of the opponent's first spells. By turn 5 or 6, you probably have an Ojutai or Silumgar in hand, and you can just reveal it.
Note that revealing Dragonlord Ojutai isn't really a cost, but revealing Dragonlord Silumgar *is* a real cost if the opponent has a planeswalker, you can't just let it tick up to ultimate then go 'Surprise! I'll take *that*, always wanted to know how it feels to ultimate Ugin'.
Very late game, this does an outstanding job of protecting Ojutai.
Good point - I just want Modern to see some control beyonf BGx decks.
When did he say that? Seriously, if he said it, I'd love to know. I'm really hoping that Origins=Jace flavored counterspell, but it seems like a pipe dream at this point.
At any rate, this is a step in the right direction, even if it turns out to be subpar. The more I think about it, I just can't think of any changeling or dragon cards that would be modern (Control) playable other than mutavault or nameless inversion. Inversion is OK removal but better options exist (hard to go with it over say dismember) and 'vault is not useful in the hand. Crib Swap seems pretty terrible and mothdust changeling hasn't really been playable in any modern fae build (I think). As for dragons, I can't think of any that are playable in modern other than thundermaw hellkite and he's in a different strategy.
Something like eternal dragon would be great for this card, due to the fact that it would be easy to include while supporting a control gameplan and smoothing the deck out overall.
I'm on my phone right now and I don't have the link handy, but if you check my recent posts from the last month or so, I've shared it before. It's from his blog and he compares Counterspell to Lightning Bolt in that he thinks it would warp Standard but would ultimately be plausible.
After initially being impressed now I've cooled.
No Dragon, opponent has heaps of mana... game over.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
In hand or on the battlefield is all that it takes
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG