Ok, first off, destroying an artifact is the most irrelevant thing right now. Maybe some kickass equipment will come with BFZ, but for now it might as well be 3 choices, which limits it way more than the other commands.
Returning a creature card from the graveyard to the hand? Well that's cool...except that because we're in RB, this might as well be a worse version of the Ojutai Command's first ability. I mean, sure, you can get more expensive creatures back, but at the same time, THIS SHOULD BE AN AGGRO DECK! At the very least, despite everyone wanting to make a Rakdos Dragons deck, the dragons just won't be there to do it. Maybe in a Jund Dragon deck, sure, but at that point you gain access to spells I'd rather take over this crap. So in the end, a Rakdos deck will likely look super aggressive, which makes this super lame. NEXT
Instant speed discard is fine and all, sure, but it's also extremely poor. Your opponent is making the choice, so early game they'll just discard something irrelevant, and lategame, you better make lucky guesses at what their topdecks are for this to matter. Unless you can make them discard the spell they're casting in response to them casting it, this choice is really bad.
And then shock is nice. For one mana. Even with another one of these terrible options, this is just so BAD. All the other commands are super playable, and this one is just so god awful that I'm hoping that Dromoka isn't just STAND UP AND TURN AROUND, END YOUR TURN IMMEDIATELY, CONCEDE THE GAME, OR TEAR YOUR MOST EXPENSIVE CARD IN HALF. PICK 3. Like, this is so utterly awful.
I think that as a member of MTGS's posting community I'm supposed to point out something about how this card is a house in Tiny Leaders. And how it's got a 3 mana CMC. And how it's a versatile card at instant speed. It kills most creatures in the format and all the swords. And now how it's actually really good despite overwhelming evidence to suggest otherwise.
Then you have failed at card evaluation. This card is at it's best in a midrange or control deck, where ability to use it to grind your opponent out is invaluable, because hey, cheap two for ones are good cards. It's hard to imagine a situation where you are unable to get value out of this. I predict that if BR is a color combination that sees play in standard this card will be in the deck.
Ok, first off, destroying an artifact is the most irrelevant thing right now. Maybe some kickass equipment will come with BFZ, but for now it might as well be 3 choices, which limits it way more than the other commands.
Returning a creature card from the graveyard to the hand? Well that's cool...except that because we're in RB, this might as well be a worse version of the Ojutai Command's first ability. I mean, sure, you can get more expensive creatures back, but at the same time, THIS SHOULD BE AN AGGRO DECK! At the very least, despite everyone wanting to make a Rakdos Dragons deck, the dragons just won't be there to do it. Maybe in a Jund Dragon deck, sure, but at that point you gain access to spells I'd rather take over this crap. So in the end, a Rakdos deck will likely look super aggressive, which makes this super lame. NEXT
Instant speed discard is fine and all, sure, but it's also extremely poor. Your opponent is making the choice, so early game they'll just discard something irrelevant, and lategame, you better make lucky guesses at what their topdecks are for this to matter. Unless you can make them discard the spell they're casting in response to them casting it, this choice is really bad.
And then shock is nice. For one mana. Even with another one of these terrible options, this is just so BAD. All the other commands are super playable, and this one is just so god awful that I'm hoping that Dromoka isn't just STAND UP AND TURN AROUND, END YOUR TURN IMMEDIATELY, CONCEDE THE GAME, OR TEAR YOUR MOST EXPENSIVE CARD IN HALF. PICK 3. Like, this is so utterly awful.
Pretty spot on. I guess its ok to kill a dude and discard a card against monored... But what this ***** card can do against the rest of the meta? On turn 3 you will probably have no creatures in your graveyard, and most of the time you will be just making your opponent discard acard and take 2. Wow! -.-
This... is a thing of beauty. It seems great in Modern with Fulminator Mage and can get Chandra's Phoenix back from the graveyard with two of its modes. It's really a shame Snapcaster Mage isn't Red like it should be.
Good in EDH. Artifacts are prevalent, creatures are often in the yard and there are plenty of utility weenies to zap. Even for other formats I'd say costing it at BR would be too aggressive.
I feel like this is good, but I'm a little skeptical. If this was legal right now, I don't think I'd put it in my mardu deck. The 3 drop spot is already super cluttered with rabblemaster, outburst, and crackling doom. I do think this is better than mardu charm, but I also think it's the weakest command spoiled yet.
The main thing about it, is that there aren't 2 abilities that would always be useful. I guess they are shock and make them discard a card, which is ok, but I don't think it's worth 3 mana.
Now if it dealt 4 damage (even if it's just to a creature) and mind rot, then that would be great.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Home run for Cruel Control. It is like an anti Electrolyze lol.
Comes with an extra side of Snapcaster Mage as well
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Then you have failed at card evaluation. This card is at it's best in a midrange or control deck, where ability to use it to grind your opponent out is invaluable, because hey, cheap two for ones are good cards. It's hard to imagine a situation where you are unable to get value out of this. I predict that if BR is a color combination that sees play in standard this card will be in the deck.
Alright, so I'm running a control or midrange deck. If I'm looking to burn something, since burning their face implies I'm aggro despite overwhelming evidence people will likely burn the opponent's face with this card, why am I not running Roast instead, or Arcbond, given that can blow out an entire battlefield at instant speed? And if I'm looking to get 2 things out of my creature burn, why not run Douse in Gloom? Because 2 life is worse than mediocre graveyard recursion? Might I remind you that as a forum, everyone seems to hate cards that bring creatures back to their hands. They say that's not good enough. Also, I'm not even going to mention the artifact destruction, that literally is the worst thing printed on any of the commands so far.
And then we get to the discard part. The real controlling part of the card. Here's why Thoughtseize is good: You choose what they discard. Here's why Duress is good: You choose what they discard. Here's why Mardu Charm is good: You choose what they discard. Here's why Kolaghan's Command is bad: They choose their worst card in the hand to discard, or the one they're most likely to get back somehow, through multiples or recursion. Hell, one standard ago, this would have fueled free Loxodon Smiters. Nowadays, expect to see people discarding Deathmist Raptors and getting those back for good prices. This lets your opponent do the choice early game, which is basically as valuable as Tribute is when it comes for the best for you, and late game, you rely either on them having a Courser of Kruphix and not being a control deck themselves to have a bunch of cards, or just lucky guesses at their top deck. It's literally the worst command, and maybe the worst rare out of this set.
Pretty spot on. I guess its ok to kill a dude and discard a card against monored... But what this ***** card can do against the rest of the meta? On turn 3 you will probably have no creatures in your graveyard, and most of the time you will be just making your opponent discard acard and take 2. Wow! -.-
Kill a Hornet queen and destroy a Whip seems relevant against Whip decks, or even just killing a Voyaging Satyr/Mystic and a Whip. This is a maindeckable answer to Whip for a color combination that doesn't have that sort of thing. That has anti-aggro applications, anti-grindy applications, and anti-removal applications all rolled into one card. With a bit of reach if you need it.
The thing about Charms and Commands is that no ability, or set of abilities, is worth the cost on its own. It's the range of utility the spell brings forward. And this is a very cheap card to cast with a range of utility against a large number of decks. The modes are deceptively useful. Enough so to warrant inclusion in any R/B/x deck. It will almost always be a 2-for-1 if used with even the remotess of intelligence and forethought, which is likely good enough.
Ok, first off, destroying an artifact is the most irrelevant thing right now. Maybe some kickass equipment will come with BFZ, but for now it might as well be 3 choices, which limits it way more than the other commands.
It kills Whip of Erebos and Perilous Vault.
Returning a creature card from the graveyard to the hand? Well that's cool...except that because we're in RB, this might as well be a worse version of the Ojutai Command's first ability. I mean, sure, you can get more expensive creatures back, but at the same time, THIS SHOULD BE AN AGGRO DECK! At the very least, despite everyone wanting to make a Rakdos Dragons deck, the dragons just won't be there to do it. Maybe in a Jund Dragon deck, sure, but at that point you gain access to spells I'd rather take over this crap. So in the end, a Rakdos deck will likely look super aggressive, which makes this super lame. NEXT
Ojutai's Command costs 4 mana so that isn't a good comparison. Also, in red black you are playing Goblin Rabblemaster. And Butcher of the Horde. And probably Stormbreath Dragon. Good luck getting those back with Ojutai's Command.
Instant speed discard is fine and all, sure, but it's also extremely poor. Your opponent is making the choice, so early game they'll just discard something irrelevant, and lategame, you better make lucky guesses at what their topdecks are for this to matter. Unless you can make them discard the spell they're casting in response to them casting it, this choice is really bad.
Instant speed discard isn't bad, but you aren't going to believe me anyways.
And then shock is nice. For one mana. Even with another one of these terrible options, this is just so BAD. All the other commands are super playable, and this one is just so god awful that I'm hoping that Dromoka isn't just STAND UP AND TURN AROUND, END YOUR TURN IMMEDIATELY, CONCEDE THE GAME, OR TEAR YOUR MOST EXPENSIVE CARD IN HALF. PICK 3. Like, this is so utterly awful.
In this format, Shock often says "destroy target creature".
Standard Playable, but nothing special. If you return a creature and deal 2, its like a much more narrow electrolyze. If you return a creature and make your opponent discard, its sort of Divination. The option to pick plus the ability to smash an occasional Whip guarantees it'll see some play.
Pretty spot on. I guess its ok to kill a dude and discard a card against monored... But what this ***** card can do against the rest of the meta? On turn 3 you will probably have no creatures in your graveyard, and most of the time you will be just making your opponent discard acard and take 2. Wow! -.-
Kill a Hornet queen and destroy a Whip seems relevant against Whip decks, or even just killing a Voyaging Satyr/Mystic and a Whip. This is a maindeckable answer to Whip for a color combination that doesn't have that sort of thing. That has anti-aggro applications, anti-grindy applications, and anti-removal applications all rolled into one card. With a bit of reach if you need it.
The thing about Charms and Commands is that no ability, or set of abilities, is worth the cost on its own. It's the range of utility the spell brings forward. And this is a very cheap card to cast with a range of utility against a large number of decks. The modes are deceptively useful. Enough so to warrant inclusion in any R/B/x deck. It will almost always be a 2-for-1 if used with even the remotess of intelligence and forethought, which is likely good enough.
So at best it's a sideboard card against Whip. I'll give you that. Doesn't mean I think it's going to be played very often, especially since Whip decks are going to be gone in six months.
As for your, er...delightful input on Charms and Commands......you're pretty dead wrong. As far as I know, Abzan Charm has 3 modes that all seem very reasonable at three mana. Exiling? Check. Sign in Blood at instant speed? Check. 2 counters? Er....well, it can be very powerful in the right deck. Azorius Charm was also all reasonable abilities for two mana. Selesnya Charm also had 3 relevants at 2 mana. Temur Charm is also actually rather good for three mana. I mean, at the very least, it works as a source of removal, the counterspell is fine, and the can't block clause works. Jeskai Charm also has 2 reasonable options for 3 mana. And then Atarka Command and Ojutai Command are absolutely fantastic for the price, and we can't forget good ol Cryptic Command. Charms are good for versatility, yes, AND decently-costed abilities.
Ok, first off, destroying an artifact is the most irrelevant thing right now. Maybe some kickass equipment will come with BFZ, but for now it might as well be 3 choices, which limits it way more than the other commands.
Then you have failed at card evaluation. This card is at it's best in a midrange or control deck, where ability to use it to grind your opponent out is invaluable, because hey, cheap two for ones are good cards. It's hard to imagine a situation where you are unable to get value out of this. I predict that if BR is a color combination that sees play in standard this card will be in the deck.
Alright, so I'm running a control or midrange deck. If I'm looking to burn something, since burning their face implies I'm aggro despite overwhelming evidence people will likely burn the opponent's face with this card, why am I not running Roast instead, or Arcbond, given that can blow out an entire battlefield at instant speed? And if I'm looking to get 2 things out of my creature burn, why not run Douse in Gloom? Because 2 life is worse than mediocre graveyard recursion? Might I remind you that as a forum, everyone seems to hate cards that bring creatures back to their hands. They say that's not good enough. Also, I'm not even going to mention the artifact destruction, that literally is the worst thing printed on any of the commands so far.
And then we get to the discard part. The real controlling part of the card. Here's why Thoughtseize is good: You choose what they discard. Here's why Duress is good: You choose what they discard. Here's why Mardu Charm is good: You choose what they discard. Here's why Kolaghan's Command is bad: They choose their worst card in the hand to discard, or the one they're most likely to get back somehow, through multiples or recursion. Hell, one standard ago, this would have fueled free Loxodon Smiters. Nowadays, expect to see people discarding Deathmist Raptors and getting those back for good prices. This lets your opponent do the choice early game, which is basically as valuable as Tribute is when it comes for the best for you, and late game, you rely either on them having a Courser of Kruphix and not being a control deck themselves to have a bunch of cards, or just lucky guesses at their top deck. It's literally the worst command, and maybe the worst rare out of this set.
This is better because it's versatile. The cards you named are occasionally dead. This basically never is. At its worst it's a slightly unfavorable one for one, if they don't have a creature with one toughness in play, a relevant artifact, and you don't have a creature in your hand. Right now this kills rabblemaster, mentor and most two drops with value. The most apt comparison to this card is electrolize, and though this card is probably worse that doesn't make it bad.
This card is very versatile, and that makes it very good.
Wow so CMC cycle of commands confirmed...I HATE CMC cycles, the 5-7 CMC costed cards usually see ZERO play in everything. So G/W you get stuck with the 6 CMC command. As for this card, eh, I think it should have been 3 damage instead of 2. Is instant speed discard REALLY worth 2 mana? I feel that the problem with these option cards is a lot of effects end up becoming overcosted. Instant speed discard should cost 1.5 mana, I know there is no such thing as .5 mana, but a lot of the effects stapled onto to these cards seem to be CMC rounded up and it just skews the card into overcosted territory. If they wanted to push this card they could have made the 2 damage able to split(like Electrolyze) or the discard at random.
This is better because it's versatile. The cards you named are occasionally dead. This basically never is. At its worst it's a slightly unfavorable one for one, if they don't have a creature with one toughness in play, a relevant artifact, and you don't have a creature in your hand. Right now this kills rabblemaster, mentor and most two drops with value. The most apt comparison to this card is electrolize, and though this card is probably worse that doesn't make it bad.
This card is very versatile, and that makes it very good.
I'm noticing your only argument is that it can kill small creatures. The only relevant artifact in the format is Whip, which fine, maybe this will see some sideboard play. That's fair. I don't see it in a mainboard in any standard event, even an FNM. Since Whip is the only relevant artifact, against most decks that ability is just pointless. Because the creatures it kills are small, a Mardu deck in general should prefer to run Mardu Charm. Because if you want to go on versatility, Mardu Charm is able to do 2 of the 4 things this card can do, and if the creature is too big and their hand is too small, you always have the 2 1/1 option. This one relies on either a Whip deck, small creatures which can be killed with countless red and black spells in the format, a creature you desperately need to return to your hand, or a knowledge of their upcoming cards. Given Courser and Whip are leaving very soon, two of those options become worse in rotation. If I return a creature to my hand, it will likely take anywhere between 1-2 more turns before I can attack with it again, by which point they likely will have obtained another removal spell or a creature to deal with it. And the 2 damage is worse removal in a removal-filled deck.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
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I think that as a member of MTGS's posting community I'm supposed to point out something about how this card is a house in Tiny Leaders. And how it's got a 3 mana CMC. And how it's a versatile card at instant speed. It kills most creatures in the format and all the swords. And now how it's actually really good despite overwhelming evidence to suggest otherwise.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Then you have failed at card evaluation. This card is at it's best in a midrange or control deck, where ability to use it to grind your opponent out is invaluable, because hey, cheap two for ones are good cards. It's hard to imagine a situation where you are unable to get value out of this. I predict that if BR is a color combination that sees play in standard this card will be in the deck.
Pretty spot on. I guess its ok to kill a dude and discard a card against monored... But what this ***** card can do against the rest of the meta? On turn 3 you will probably have no creatures in your graveyard, and most of the time you will be just making your opponent discard acard and take 2. Wow! -.-
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
The main thing about it, is that there aren't 2 abilities that would always be useful. I guess they are shock and make them discard a card, which is ok, but I don't think it's worth 3 mana.
Now if it dealt 4 damage (even if it's just to a creature) and mind rot, then that would be great.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Comes with an extra side of Snapcaster Mage as well
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
It's... okay. I'm neither thrilled nor disappointed. So far, Atarka's really leads the pack.
UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU's prison: blue is the new orange is the new black.
Mizzix Of The Izmagnus : wheels on fire... rolling down the road...
BSidisi, Undead VizierB: Bis zum Erbrechen
GTitiania, Protector Of ArgothG: Protecting Argoth, by blowing it up!
GYisan, The Wanderer BardG: Gradus Ad Elfball.
Duel EDH: Yisan & Titania.
In Progress: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV duel; Grenzo, Dungeon Warden Doomsday.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
Alright, so I'm running a control or midrange deck. If I'm looking to burn something, since burning their face implies I'm aggro despite overwhelming evidence people will likely burn the opponent's face with this card, why am I not running Roast instead, or Arcbond, given that can blow out an entire battlefield at instant speed? And if I'm looking to get 2 things out of my creature burn, why not run Douse in Gloom? Because 2 life is worse than mediocre graveyard recursion? Might I remind you that as a forum, everyone seems to hate cards that bring creatures back to their hands. They say that's not good enough. Also, I'm not even going to mention the artifact destruction, that literally is the worst thing printed on any of the commands so far.
And then we get to the discard part. The real controlling part of the card. Here's why Thoughtseize is good: You choose what they discard. Here's why Duress is good: You choose what they discard. Here's why Mardu Charm is good: You choose what they discard. Here's why Kolaghan's Command is bad: They choose their worst card in the hand to discard, or the one they're most likely to get back somehow, through multiples or recursion. Hell, one standard ago, this would have fueled free Loxodon Smiters. Nowadays, expect to see people discarding Deathmist Raptors and getting those back for good prices. This lets your opponent do the choice early game, which is basically as valuable as Tribute is when it comes for the best for you, and late game, you rely either on them having a Courser of Kruphix and not being a control deck themselves to have a bunch of cards, or just lucky guesses at their top deck. It's literally the worst command, and maybe the worst rare out of this set.
Kill a Hornet queen and destroy a Whip seems relevant against Whip decks, or even just killing a Voyaging Satyr/Mystic and a Whip. This is a maindeckable answer to Whip for a color combination that doesn't have that sort of thing. That has anti-aggro applications, anti-grindy applications, and anti-removal applications all rolled into one card. With a bit of reach if you need it.
The thing about Charms and Commands is that no ability, or set of abilities, is worth the cost on its own. It's the range of utility the spell brings forward. And this is a very cheap card to cast with a range of utility against a large number of decks. The modes are deceptively useful. Enough so to warrant inclusion in any R/B/x deck. It will almost always be a 2-for-1 if used with even the remotess of intelligence and forethought, which is likely good enough.
It kills Whip of Erebos and Perilous Vault.
Ojutai's Command costs 4 mana so that isn't a good comparison. Also, in red black you are playing Goblin Rabblemaster. And Butcher of the Horde. And probably Stormbreath Dragon. Good luck getting those back with Ojutai's Command.
Instant speed discard isn't bad, but you aren't going to believe me anyways.
In this format, Shock often says "destroy target creature".
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
[Commander] Rafiq of the Many (Tier 1)
[Commander] Marchesa, the Black Rose (Tier 1)
[Commander] Five Color Artifacts (Tier 2)
So at best it's a sideboard card against Whip. I'll give you that. Doesn't mean I think it's going to be played very often, especially since Whip decks are going to be gone in six months.
As for your, er...delightful input on Charms and Commands......you're pretty dead wrong. As far as I know, Abzan Charm has 3 modes that all seem very reasonable at three mana. Exiling? Check. Sign in Blood at instant speed? Check. 2 counters? Er....well, it can be very powerful in the right deck. Azorius Charm was also all reasonable abilities for two mana. Selesnya Charm also had 3 relevants at 2 mana. Temur Charm is also actually rather good for three mana. I mean, at the very least, it works as a source of removal, the counterspell is fine, and the can't block clause works. Jeskai Charm also has 2 reasonable options for 3 mana. And then Atarka Command and Ojutai Command are absolutely fantastic for the price, and we can't forget good ol Cryptic Command. Charms are good for versatility, yes, AND decently-costed abilities.
whip of erebos - Is an artifact
This is better because it's versatile. The cards you named are occasionally dead. This basically never is. At its worst it's a slightly unfavorable one for one, if they don't have a creature with one toughness in play, a relevant artifact, and you don't have a creature in your hand. Right now this kills rabblemaster, mentor and most two drops with value. The most apt comparison to this card is electrolize, and though this card is probably worse that doesn't make it bad.
This card is very versatile, and that makes it very good.
Blightning doesn't affect the board or Disentomb.
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
I'm noticing your only argument is that it can kill small creatures. The only relevant artifact in the format is Whip, which fine, maybe this will see some sideboard play. That's fair. I don't see it in a mainboard in any standard event, even an FNM. Since Whip is the only relevant artifact, against most decks that ability is just pointless. Because the creatures it kills are small, a Mardu deck in general should prefer to run Mardu Charm. Because if you want to go on versatility, Mardu Charm is able to do 2 of the 4 things this card can do, and if the creature is too big and their hand is too small, you always have the 2 1/1 option. This one relies on either a Whip deck, small creatures which can be killed with countless red and black spells in the format, a creature you desperately need to return to your hand, or a knowledge of their upcoming cards. Given Courser and Whip are leaving very soon, two of those options become worse in rotation. If I return a creature to my hand, it will likely take anywhere between 1-2 more turns before I can attack with it again, by which point they likely will have obtained another removal spell or a creature to deal with it. And the 2 damage is worse removal in a removal-filled deck.
What, you've never Cliqued an opponent on their draw step, bruh?