What are the technical issues preventing a colourless basic?
I read some Rosewater article about it a long time ago, but I was just beginning then.
I remember that it would make Dominion cards too powerful, but.....who cares? Those never see play anyway. And if you need to ban a dominion card or two that never sees play right now anyway to bring about a colourless basic, that seems a pretty trivial price to pay.
I don't like the chances of seeing a Goblin Guide reprint. When RTR and Scars came out they didn't really reprint many cards and the ones they did generally weren't bombs. Now a slightly different version... that has a better possibility.
I don't like the chances of seeing a Goblin Guide reprint. When RTR and Scars came out they didn't really reprint many cards and the ones they did generally weren't bombs. Now a slightly different version... that has a better possibility.
i get in arguments with kids at the local shop all the time over this sort of thing. i absolutely agree with you. they all seem to think that bfz is going to be this wonderful reprint heavy set where lotus cobras, goblin guides, and oracles of mul daya rain from the skies, where landfall is a competitive thing on new competitive cards, and fetchlands are in every pack.
the reality of it is that we'll probably see a few decent common and uncommon reprints, and some homages to great rares from the first zendikar block, but no real solid reprints. rtr is a great example. then theres also that bfz is going to sell, it can be a garbage set but because its the first set of the next block its going to sell. you don't need to fill it with high value reprints to create interest. much better to shove those into products that need a broader appeal. (like duel decks, commander precons, planechase, etc)
It is hard to say for sure with this new rotation format. Wizards already acknowledged that they are going to have to be more liberal with in block reprints of things they want in standard since there will no longer be a core set. So if they want Goblin Guide back in standard, they will have to reprint it in a block, likely BFZ due to the theme. That said, I don't know that they'd want New Zendikar to bring the same things to standard as Old Zendikar. They'll likely save those types of reprints for a Modern Masters or supplemental set and do new, but throwbackish, cards for standard.
I know this is both premature and rather mundane,
but I'm curious if the images we have give any clue
as to the coloration of the next Holiday Gift Box?
So far we have:
RTR- Blue
Theros- Green
KTK- Red
They may or may not be intentionally making these in the main five colors.
As one currently organizing my gigantic collection,
I would certainly appreciate color-coded boxes for all five colors
(and maybe even colorless/lands/multicolor at some point).
All this is to say- I'm betting this year's box will be either black or white.
I can't tell which looks more likely now, but either would be great.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
RTR - Blue (just like the RTR booster boxes) - represents protagonist and MTG universal poster-boy Jace?
Theros - Green (just like the THS booster boxes) - represents (half of) Xenagos, (half of) Ajani, Mentor? (contains Elspeth but she wasn't her B.A.M.F. self just yet)?
KTK - Red (just like the KTK booster boxes) - represents protagonist Sarkhan?
so again, my guess will be:
BFZ - White? (just like the BTZ booster boxes?) - respresents protagonist Gideon?
i sincerely doubt there is a Black theme surrounding BFZ... if anything, that would represent a Return to Innistrad/Liliana. we're probably 15 months away from that block...
instead, my alternate guess would be a COLORLESS theme. of course, that's not as sexy to the eye as splashy art, so i have a lot of doubts there, too.
What are the technical issues preventing a colourless basic?
I read some Rosewater article about it a long time ago, but I was just beginning then.
I remember that it would make Dominion cards too powerful, but.....who cares? Those never see play anyway. And if you need to ban a dominion card or two that never sees play right now anyway to bring about a colourless basic, that seems a pretty trivial price to pay.
Anything else?
Domain was THE reason they came up with a colorless non-basic land in the first place. The problem wasn't it would make them too powerful, but at the moment they printed a 6th basic land type it would change how cards like Coalition Victory work. In other words, if you used to play this card and win the game with your 5 basic lands in play, suddenly this wouldn't work anymore. They want to avoid this kind of thing.
That being said, a colorless basic land with no subtype is perfectly possible. It would avoid this problem but it also wouldn't work for the reason it was first designed to exist.
I don't like the chances of seeing a Goblin Guide reprint. When RTR and Scars came out they didn't really reprint many cards and the ones they did generally weren't bombs. Now a slightly different version... that has a better possibility.
i get in arguments with kids at the local shop all the time over this sort of thing. i absolutely agree with you. they all seem to think that bfz is going to be this wonderful reprint heavy set where lotus cobras, goblin guides, and oracles of mul daya rain from the skies, where landfall is a competitive thing on new competitive cards, and fetchlands are in every pack.
the reality of it is that we'll probably see a few decent common and uncommon reprints, and some homages to great rares from the first zendikar block, but no real solid reprints. rtr is a great example. then theres also that bfz is going to sell, it can be a garbage set but because its the first set of the next block its going to sell. you don't need to fill it with high value reprints to create interest. much better to shove those into products that need a broader appeal. (like duel decks, commander precons, planechase, etc)
I don't like the chances of seeing a Goblin Guide reprint. When RTR and Scars came out they didn't really reprint many cards and the ones they did generally weren't bombs. Now a slightly different version... that has a better possibility.
i get in arguments with kids at the local shop all the time over this sort of thing. i absolutely agree with you. they all seem to think that bfz is going to be this wonderful reprint heavy set where lotus cobras, goblin guides, and oracles of mul daya rain from the skies, where landfall is a competitive thing on new competitive cards, and fetchlands are in every pack.
the reality of it is that we'll probably see a few decent common and uncommon reprints, and some homages to great rares from the first zendikar block, but no real solid reprints. rtr is a great example. then theres also that bfz is going to sell, it can be a garbage set but because its the first set of the next block its going to sell. you don't need to fill it with high value reprints to create interest. much better to shove those into products that need a broader appeal. (like duel decks, commander precons, planechase, etc)
Shock lands don't count?
As bombs? No, they don't win you games. Good fixing, sure, but not bombs.
But good fixing does help you win games. Being able to play a certain color because of a fetch land and therefore having access to a bigger pool of cards for your deck increases your chances of winning as much as being able to play a cost effective creature. Not to speak of lands that make whole deck types (Tron, Workshop, Valakut, Ravnica Bounce lands) possible and making your goyfs stronger. Lands are not considered bombs because they don't directly win you the game, but I would argue that they maybe should be. How could anyone say Mishra's Workshop wasn't a bomb?
But good fixing does help you win games. Being able to play a certain color because of a fetch land and therefore having access to a bigger pool of cards for your deck increases your chances of winning as much as being able to play a cost effective creature. Not to speak of lands that make whole deck types (Tron, Workshop, Valakut, Ravnica Bounce lands) possible and making your goyfs stronger. Lands are not considered bombs because they don't directly win you the game, but I would argue that they maybe should be. How could anyone say Mishra's Workshop wasn't a bomb?
The term 'bomb' is primarily used when discussing a limited format. Typically dual lands are not bombs in limited and are marginal picks even when in color. Now, certain lands could be considered bombs. The WWK manlands are probably the best example I can come up with here.
In limited I agree. The duals are no bombs there, but neither is Goblin Guide. So I don't think anybody was talking about limited bombs here.
The thing is that "bomb" is a term used for limited. It has little to no meaning in a constructed where there are so many high-impact cards and removal.
In limited I agree. The duals are no bombs there, but neither is Goblin Guide. So I don't think anybody was talking about limited bombs here.
The thing is that "bomb" is a term used for limited. It has little to no meaning in a constructed where there are so many high-impact cards and removal.
Is it used for limited only? If that is what you are saying, I have to disagree with you. And as evidence I'd like to point out the discussion that is happening right now. Other people refered to Goblin Guide and Lotus Cobra as bombs. They didn't mean limited.
In limited I agree. The duals are no bombs there, but neither is Goblin Guide. So I don't think anybody was talking about limited bombs here.
The thing is that "bomb" is a term used for limited. It has little to no meaning in a constructed where there are so many high-impact cards and removal.
Is it used for limited only? If that is what you are saying, I have to disagree with you. And as evidence I'd like to point out the discussion that is happening right now. Other people refered to Goblin Guide and Lotus Cobra as bombs. They didn't mean limited.
If we are to the point where we call Lotus Cobra and Goblin Guide "bombs", it's fair to say that the term is pretty meaningless.
In limited I agree. The duals are no bombs there, but neither is Goblin Guide. So I don't think anybody was talking about limited bombs here.
The thing is that "bomb" is a term used for limited. It has little to no meaning in a constructed where there are so many high-impact cards and removal.
Is it used for limited only? If that is what you are saying, I have to disagree with you. And as evidence I'd like to point out the discussion that is happening right now. Other people refered to Goblin Guide and Lotus Cobra as bombs. They didn't mean limited.
If we are to the point where we call Lotus Cobra and Goblin Guide "bombs", it's fair to say that the term is pretty meaningless.
In limited, a bomb is a card that is head and shoulders above the average common and uncommon that flood the board, and that if the opponent has no removal (a scarce resource in the format) then it will win the game for you. Bombs are rare and the most important cards in your deck, that's why they get their own name to separate them from all the filler.
I'm completely confused by the use of the term 'bomb' in this thread. Seems like it started as a replacement for 'highly desired reprint' and has morphed into any desirable card?
Well in Constructed then, a bomb might be a card that is exceptionally good and outstandingly cost efficient for what it is trying to achieve. Elvish Mystic isn't a bomb because there is a card that does more for the same cost. The same is true for Zurgo Bellstriker and Firedrinker Satyr. Of course, you can also make it format specific. Siege Rhino is a bomb in Standard. In Modern not so much.
Edit: Oh and I totally agree that I have a loose defintion of 'bomb', but I'm very fine with that.
I don't like the chances of seeing a Goblin Guide reprint. When RTR and Scars came out they didn't really reprint many cards and the ones they did generally weren't bombs. Now a slightly different version... that has a better possibility.
i get in arguments with kids at the local shop all the time over this sort of thing. i absolutely agree with you. they all seem to think that bfz is going to be this wonderful reprint heavy set where lotus cobras, goblin guides, and oracles of mul daya rain from the skies, where landfall is a competitive thing on new competitive cards, and fetchlands are in every pack.
the reality of it is that we'll probably see a few decent common and uncommon reprints, and some homages to great rares from the first zendikar block, but no real solid reprints. rtr is a great example. then theres also that bfz is going to sell, it can be a garbage set but because its the first set of the next block its going to sell. you don't need to fill it with high value reprints to create interest. much better to shove those into products that need a broader appeal. (like duel decks, commander precons, planechase, etc)
Shock lands don't count?
As bombs? No, they don't win you games. Good fixing, sure, but not bombs.
Not as bombs, no, but what I quoted specifically references the hopes for a lot of reprints, and specifically mentions fetch lands, then proceeding to liken it to Return to Ravnica. I mentioned shock lands because they actually go against this logic, since they are highly playable tournament staples that were reprinted from the original Ravnica. Why would I be offering them up as "bombs" when the thrust of what I quoted was about highly playable / valuable reprints?
I read some Rosewater article about it a long time ago, but I was just beginning then.
I remember that it would make Dominion cards too powerful, but.....who cares? Those never see play anyway. And if you need to ban a dominion card or two that never sees play right now anyway to bring about a colourless basic, that seems a pretty trivial price to pay.
Anything else?
i get in arguments with kids at the local shop all the time over this sort of thing. i absolutely agree with you. they all seem to think that bfz is going to be this wonderful reprint heavy set where lotus cobras, goblin guides, and oracles of mul daya rain from the skies, where landfall is a competitive thing on new competitive cards, and fetchlands are in every pack.
the reality of it is that we'll probably see a few decent common and uncommon reprints, and some homages to great rares from the first zendikar block, but no real solid reprints. rtr is a great example. then theres also that bfz is going to sell, it can be a garbage set but because its the first set of the next block its going to sell. you don't need to fill it with high value reprints to create interest. much better to shove those into products that need a broader appeal. (like duel decks, commander precons, planechase, etc)
GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
My Have/Want list (MTGO)
but I'm curious if the images we have give any clue
as to the coloration of the next Holiday Gift Box?
So far we have:
RTR- Blue
Theros- Green
KTK- Red
They may or may not be intentionally making these in the main five colors.
As one currently organizing my gigantic collection,
I would certainly appreciate color-coded boxes for all five colors
(and maybe even colorless/lands/multicolor at some point).
All this is to say- I'm betting this year's box will be either black or white.
I can't tell which looks more likely now, but either would be great.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
RTR - Blue (just like the RTR booster boxes) - represents protagonist and MTG universal poster-boy Jace?
Theros - Green (just like the THS booster boxes) - represents (half of) Xenagos, (half of) Ajani, Mentor? (contains Elspeth but she wasn't her B.A.M.F. self just yet)?
KTK - Red (just like the KTK booster boxes) - represents protagonist Sarkhan?
so again, my guess will be:
BFZ - White? (just like the BTZ booster boxes?) - respresents protagonist Gideon?
i sincerely doubt there is a Black theme surrounding BFZ... if anything, that would represent a Return to Innistrad/Liliana. we're probably 15 months away from that block...
instead, my alternate guess would be a COLORLESS theme. of course, that's not as sexy to the eye as splashy art, so i have a lot of doubts there, too.
Domain was THE reason they came up with a colorless non-basic land in the first place. The problem wasn't it would make them too powerful, but at the moment they printed a 6th basic land type it would change how cards like Coalition Victory work. In other words, if you used to play this card and win the game with your 5 basic lands in play, suddenly this wouldn't work anymore. They want to avoid this kind of thing.
That being said, a colorless basic land with no subtype is perfectly possible. It would avoid this problem but it also wouldn't work for the reason it was first designed to exist.
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
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Shock lands don't count?
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
As bombs? No, they don't win you games. Good fixing, sure, but not bombs.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Valakut and maybe some other weird lands might be considered bombs, but for the most part, no.
Also, I'm excited to see what Ulamog does this time around. I'm worried they're going to make him weak compared to last time.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
The term 'bomb' is primarily used when discussing a limited format. Typically dual lands are not bombs in limited and are marginal picks even when in color. Now, certain lands could be considered bombs. The WWK manlands are probably the best example I can come up with here.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Is it used for limited only? If that is what you are saying, I have to disagree with you. And as evidence I'd like to point out the discussion that is happening right now. Other people refered to Goblin Guide and Lotus Cobra as bombs. They didn't mean limited.
You have a very loose defintion of meaningless.
Assuming Lotus Cobra and Goblin Guide are bombs, then what isn't? I guess Elvish Mystic and Courser of Kruphix are also bombs. Zurgo Bellstriker and Firedrinker Satyr too. Why not Satyr Wayfinder and Nyx-Fleece Ram? They help you build toward a board state to kill your opponent, or keep you alive so you can win the game. So where do we draw the line?
In limited, a bomb is a card that is head and shoulders above the average common and uncommon that flood the board, and that if the opponent has no removal (a scarce resource in the format) then it will win the game for you. Bombs are rare and the most important cards in your deck, that's why they get their own name to separate them from all the filler.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Edit: Oh and I totally agree that I have a loose defintion of 'bomb', but I'm very fine with that.
Not as bombs, no, but what I quoted specifically references the hopes for a lot of reprints, and specifically mentions fetch lands, then proceeding to liken it to Return to Ravnica. I mentioned shock lands because they actually go against this logic, since they are highly playable tournament staples that were reprinted from the original Ravnica. Why would I be offering them up as "bombs" when the thrust of what I quoted was about highly playable / valuable reprints?
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube