I'm no Standard player but I think as long as Rhino and such are here, this command is a joke.
This is the problem. Five mana spells can good in constructed, especially in control, but they need to be able to deal with the other deck's threats. This card does not deal with siege rhino in any (good) way, shape, or form. It can't kill a courser or whisperwood or polukranos. It comes in way too late to deal with aggressive things like rabblemaster. It can't deal with stormbreath or any other big creatures with haste. The one thing it's really useful against is planeswalkers. Kill Sorin and bounce the token, same with Nissa or Xenagos. Counter a walker and bounce a creature or land. Even then, negate is just better most times since you can actually counter a sorin or nissa or xenagos on t4 when they're likely to be played.
It's not an awful card, but it's too expensive to be a very good card for what it does. I honestly wish killing a walker was replaced with a discard effect, so it could be four or maybe even three mana and actually been main deck worthy. The only way this should be in main is in a meta flooded with control or walker decks.
Do we need it to deal with siege rhino or courser though? I would argue no. Against Abzan I try not to use me strokes against Siege Rhino and instead use downfalls for it.
Also: Command does indirectly deal with whisperwood for 1 turn. Bounce whisperwood, kill the manifest. Which arguably is very strong as well.
It's a decent tempo play, sure, but you still have to deal with the whisperwood. That puts you at card disadvantage to deal with the manifest and just stall the elemental. I think that's my biggest problem with this card; it doesn't often provide card advantage. Even with choose 2 of 4 modes, the best ways to use it (killing a walker and their token) are ways that don't actually generate any advantage, just stall. Even in control, your five mana spells aren't meant to just stall, they're meant to generate card advantage. At five mana, there are just too many scenarios for this card to not generate any card advantage for me to want it in the main board.
I'm no Standard player but I think as long as Rhino and such are here, this command is a joke.
This is the problem. Five mana spells can good in constructed, especially in control, but they need to be able to deal with the other deck's threats. This card does not deal with siege rhino in any (good) way, shape, or form. It can't kill a courser or whisperwood or polukranos. It comes in way too late to deal with aggressive things like rabblemaster. It can't deal with stormbreath or any other big creatures with haste. The one thing it's really useful against is planeswalkers. Kill Sorin and bounce the token, same with Nissa or Xenagos. Counter a walker and bounce a creature or land. Even then, negate is just better most times since you can actually counter a sorin or nissa or xenagos on t4 when they're likely to be played.
It's not an awful card, but it's too expensive to be a very good card for what it does. I honestly wish killing a walker was replaced with a discard effect, so it could be four or maybe even three mana and actually been main deck worthy. The only way this should be in main is in a meta flooded with control or walker decks.
Do we need it to deal with siege rhino or courser though? I would argue no. Against Abzan I try not to use me strokes against Siege Rhino and instead use downfalls for it.
Also: Command does indirectly deal with whisperwood for 1 turn. Bounce whisperwood, kill the manifest. Which arguably is very strong as well.
It's a decent tempo play, sure, but you still have to deal with the whisperwood. That puts you at card disadvantage to deal with the manifest and just stall the elemental. I think that's my biggest problem with this card; it doesn't often provide card advantage. Even with choose 2 of 4 modes, the best ways to use it (killing a walker and their token) are ways that don't actually generate any advantage, just stall. Even in control, your five mana spells aren't meant to just stall, they're meant to generate card advantage. At five mana, there are just too many scenarios for this card to not generate any card advantage for me to want it in the main board.
I wouldn't call bouncing a whisper wood and killing the manifest "card disadvantage". Its a 1 for 1 at worst. 2 for 1 at best.
Card's like stroke, negate, dissipate,downfall, etc. also do not create "card advantage".
I could see command replacing the 3rd and 4th stroke.
The command shouldn't cost less than the two cards that would need to be combined to give you its options. And I think killing a planeswalker alone is worth 3 mana. Easy 2-for-1.
Killing a planeswalker can be done for 2 mana with a bonus, see Vampire Hexmage and Dreadbore. This command costs at least 1 more than any possible permutation of the modes on the card- Last Gasp (which was later replaced by Grasp of Darkness), Negate, Boomerand, and destroy target planeswalker which should cost somewhere between B and 1B. 4 Mana could have been justified. As is, the last gasp effect comes online far too late at 5 cmc, and spending 5 on on a negate even with bonus is going to be awkward. Arc Scatter was of a similar ilk and completely unplayable, Far // Away saw only minor play in a format where the sacrifice effect was far more relevant than the -3/-3 is likely to be in this one, and it could be cast efficiently in the early game while also providing more value as far as dealing with creatures is concerned. This command should certainly be tested in small numbers, before passing judgement, but I'm fairly certain that it lies just outside the realm of playable.
Also I believe the reason the command isnt costed 4, is because of Sultai being a thing. Ramping into this t4 is good, ramping into this t3 would be bonkers (though its still possible with t1 mystic, t2 caryatid, t3 hitting your third land untapped and able to produce U or B).
Where is this variety of sultai a thing? Decks that run mana dorks aren't generally aren't in the business of keeping 5 mana open on their opponent's turn...
Damn. This is standard playable at 5, and modern UNplayable at 5. Why couldn't it have just costed 4? Also, doesn't this mean that Dromoka's Command and Kolaghan's command are going to cost 3 and 6?
Damn. This is standard playable at 5, and modern UNplayable at 5. Why couldn't it have just costed 4? Also, doesn't this mean that Dromoka's Command and Kolaghan's command are going to cost 3 and 6?
I wouldn't be surpirsed if they cost that. Of all the "Cycles" Wizards feels they have to do, the increasing CMC is the worst. Because most of the cycles push half of the colors out of playability in almost all formats. Seriously stop making CMC cycles Wizards, a lot of people don't think that they are "Fun", they just ruin playability for cards.
Roast has modern potential. It might as well read hose target junk deck as gofy is mostly a 4/5 also so you've got an answer to all their creatures. Downsides as a sorcery it can't hit manlands on the attack and can't hit annoying permanents like resto angel, pestermite and clique. Perhaps it will replace flame slash since that is there for spellskite which roast can also handle. An extra mana to be able to kill rhino/gofy seems a worthwhile trade off?
The command is underwhelming. At 5 mana it wouldn't be possible to justify more than a single maindeck copy. It's too slow for the majority of the non creatures played and is unable to kill the problem threats. I suppose as a topdeck on an empty board it could be ok to counter their planeswalker and bounce your scryland. Looks less impressive if you're using it to counter a burn spell though. As much as people say it would have been pushed at 4. Given cryptic (yes it's UUU) can hard counter at 4 this command should have been a hard counter or also 4 cmc.
Roast has modern potential. It might as well read hose target junk deck as gofy is mostly a 4/5 also so you've got an answer to all their creatures. Downsides as a sorcery it can't hit manlands on the attack and can't hit annoying permanents like resto angel, pestermite and clique. Perhaps it will replace flame slash since that is there for spellskite which roast can also handle. An extra mana to be able to kill rhino/gofy seems a worthwhile trade off?
The command is underwhelming. At 5 mana it wouldn't be possible to justify more than a single maindeck copy. It's too slow for the majority of the non creatures played and is unable to kill the problem threats. I suppose as a topdeck on an empty board it could be ok to counter their planeswalker and bounce your scryland. Looks less impressive if you're using it to counter a burn spell though. As much as people say it would have been pushed at 4. Given cryptic (yes it's UUU) can hard counter at 4 this command should have been a hard counter or also 4 cmc.
I think two could be the correct number. I'm going to experimenting with using x2 commands instead of the 3rd and 4th stroke.
Damn. This is standard playable at 5, and modern UNplayable at 5. Why couldn't it have just costed 4? Also, doesn't this mean that Dromoka's Command and Kolaghan's command are going to cost 3 and 6?
It has been suggested in Speculation that one (Kolaghan's?) might be an X spell similar to Rakdos's Return, albeit with weaker effects.
Also to people evaluating the cost of combined effects, you also have to keep in mind the amount of colored mana. Boomerang is arguably pushed and hasn't seen reprint in a long time (since NWO). Instead we've been given Regress as more of the current standard for unconditional bounce. Also planewalker kill has never cost less than two colored mana, and given that every other effect on the command will account for at least U or B in the cost, they needed to add a colorless for balance.
Damn. This is standard playable at 5, and modern UNplayable at 5. Why couldn't it have just costed 4? Also, doesn't this mean that Dromoka's Command and Kolaghan's command are going to cost 3 and 6?
It has been suggested in Speculation that one (Kolaghan's?) might be an X spell similar to Rakdos's Return, albeit with weaker effects.
I'd love for hers to be XBR and Dromka's to be 1WG
- Distribute 2 +1/+1 counters among creatures you control
- Destroy target artifact or enchantment
- Put two 1/1 white Warrior craeture tokens onto the battlefield
- Exile target craeture. Its controller gains life equal to its toughness
The command shouldn't cost less than the two cards that would need to be combined to give you its options. And I think killing a planeswalker alone is worth 3 mana. Easy 2-for-1.
Killing a planeswalker can be done for 2 mana with a bonus, see Vampire Hexmage and Dreadbore. This command costs at least 1 more than any possible permutation of the modes on the card- Last Gasp (which was later replaced by Grasp of Darkness), Negate, Boomerand, and destroy target planeswalker which should cost somewhere between B and 1B. 4 Mana could have been justified. As is, the last gasp effect comes online far too late at 5 cmc, and spending 5 on on a negate even with bonus is going to be awkward. Arc Scatter was of a similar ilk and completely unplayable, Far // Away saw only minor play in a format where the sacrifice effect was far more relevant than the -3/-3 is likely to be in this one, and it could be cast efficiently in the early game while also providing more value as far as dealing with creatures is concerned. This command should certainly be tested in small numbers, before passing judgement, but I'm fairly certain that it lies just outside the realm of playable.
Also I believe the reason the command isnt costed 4, is because of Sultai being a thing. Ramping into this t4 is good, ramping into this t3 would be bonkers (though its still possible with t1 mystic, t2 caryatid, t3 hitting your third land untapped and able to produce U or B).
Where is this variety of sultai a thing? Decks that run mana dorks aren't generally aren't in the business of keeping 5 mana open on their opponent's turn...
Just out of curiosity, did you really talk yourself into saying that destroying a PLANESWALKER should cost "B"? I'm trying to gauge just how far removed from reality your card evaluation skills are.
The command shouldn't cost less than the two cards that would need to be combined to give you its options. And I think killing a planeswalker alone is worth 3 mana. Easy 2-for-1.
Killing a planeswalker can be done for 2 mana with a bonus, see Vampire Hexmage and Dreadbore. This command costs at least 1 more than any possible permutation of the modes on the card- Last Gasp (which was later replaced by Grasp of Darkness), Negate, Boomerand, and destroy target planeswalker which should cost somewhere between B and 1B. 4 Mana could have been justified. As is, the last gasp effect comes online far too late at 5 cmc, and spending 5 on on a negate even with bonus is going to be awkward. Arc Scatter was of a similar ilk and completely unplayable, Far // Away saw only minor play in a format where the sacrifice effect was far more relevant than the -3/-3 is likely to be in this one, and it could be cast efficiently in the early game while also providing more value as far as dealing with creatures is concerned. This command should certainly be tested in small numbers, before passing judgement, but I'm fairly certain that it lies just outside the realm of playable.
Also I believe the reason the command isnt costed 4, is because of Sultai being a thing. Ramping into this t4 is good, ramping into this t3 would be bonkers (though its still possible with t1 mystic, t2 caryatid, t3 hitting your third land untapped and able to produce U or B).
Where is this variety of sultai a thing? Decks that run mana dorks aren't generally aren't in the business of keeping 5 mana open on their opponent's turn...
Just out of curiosity, did you really talk yourself into saying that destroying a PLANESWALKER should cost "B"? I'm trying to gauge just how far removed from reality your card evaluation skills are.
I think he did.
Although I dislike that the new command costs 5... It could still see play. No more than 2... but its still a "decent" card. The question: is it good enough?
The command shouldn't cost less than the two cards that would need to be combined to give you its options. And I think killing a planeswalker alone is worth 3 mana. Easy 2-for-1.
Killing a planeswalker can be done for 2 mana with a bonus, see Vampire Hexmage and Dreadbore. This command costs at least 1 more than any possible permutation of the modes on the card- Last Gasp (which was later replaced by Grasp of Darkness), Negate, Boomerand, and destroy target planeswalker which should cost somewhere between B and 1B. 4 Mana could have been justified. As is, the last gasp effect comes online far too late at 5 cmc, and spending 5 on on a negate even with bonus is going to be awkward. Arc Scatter was of a similar ilk and completely unplayable, Far // Away saw only minor play in a format where the sacrifice effect was far more relevant than the -3/-3 is likely to be in this one, and it could be cast efficiently in the early game while also providing more value as far as dealing with creatures is concerned. This command should certainly be tested in small numbers, before passing judgement, but I'm fairly certain that it lies just outside the realm of playable.
Also I believe the reason the command isnt costed 4, is because of Sultai being a thing. Ramping into this t4 is good, ramping into this t3 would be bonkers (though its still possible with t1 mystic, t2 caryatid, t3 hitting your third land untapped and able to produce U or B).
Where is this variety of sultai a thing? Decks that run mana dorks aren't generally aren't in the business of keeping 5 mana open on their opponent's turn...
Just out of curiosity, did you really talk yourself into saying that destroying a PLANESWALKER should cost "B"? I'm trying to gauge just how far removed from reality your card evaluation skills are.
It's between B an 1B, yeah.
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The command shouldn't cost less than the two cards that would need to be combined to give you its options. And I think killing a planeswalker alone is worth 3 mana. Easy 2-for-1.
Killing a planeswalker can be done for 2 mana with a bonus, see Vampire Hexmage and Dreadbore. This command costs at least 1 more than any possible permutation of the modes on the card- Last Gasp (which was later replaced by Grasp of Darkness), Negate, Boomerand, and destroy target planeswalker which should cost somewhere between B and 1B. 4 Mana could have been justified. As is, the last gasp effect comes online far too late at 5 cmc, and spending 5 on on a negate even with bonus is going to be awkward. Arc Scatter was of a similar ilk and completely unplayable, Far // Away saw only minor play in a format where the sacrifice effect was far more relevant than the -3/-3 is likely to be in this one, and it could be cast efficiently in the early game while also providing more value as far as dealing with creatures is concerned. This command should certainly be tested in small numbers, before passing judgement, but I'm fairly certain that it lies just outside the realm of playable.
Also I believe the reason the command isnt costed 4, is because of Sultai being a thing. Ramping into this t4 is good, ramping into this t3 would be bonkers (though its still possible with t1 mystic, t2 caryatid, t3 hitting your third land untapped and able to produce U or B).
Where is this variety of sultai a thing? Decks that run mana dorks aren't generally aren't in the business of keeping 5 mana open on their opponent's turn...
Just out of curiosity, did you really talk yourself into saying that destroying a PLANESWALKER should cost "B"? I'm trying to gauge just how far removed from reality your card evaluation skills are.
I don't think it matters really. They get to shoot off an ability either way. I learned this the hard way the first time I tried to bolt JtMS...
I don't think that matters. It doesn't change the economy of mana costs. Planeswalker removal has never cost less than 2 colored mana. You can't say "but you could also kill a creature with Dreadbore" because it's either/or. That's like saying the command needs to cost as much as ALL the options, not just two. Considering that any other effect will account for at least one of the colored mana in the command, the planewalker option should be increased by one colorless to account for it's inclusion on this card.
The command shouldn't cost less than the two cards that would need to be combined to give you its options. And I think killing a planeswalker alone is worth 3 mana. Easy 2-for-1.
Killing a planeswalker can be done for 2 mana with a bonus, see Vampire Hexmage and Dreadbore. This command costs at least 1 more than any possible permutation of the modes on the card- Last Gasp (which was later replaced by Grasp of Darkness), Negate, Boomerand, and destroy target planeswalker which should cost somewhere between B and 1B. 4 Mana could have been justified. As is, the last gasp effect comes online far too late at 5 cmc, and spending 5 on on a negate even with bonus is going to be awkward. Arc Scatter was of a similar ilk and completely unplayable, Far // Away saw only minor play in a format where the sacrifice effect was far more relevant than the -3/-3 is likely to be in this one, and it could be cast efficiently in the early game while also providing more value as far as dealing with creatures is concerned. This command should certainly be tested in small numbers, before passing judgement, but I'm fairly certain that it lies just outside the realm of playable.
Also I believe the reason the command isnt costed 4, is because of Sultai being a thing. Ramping into this t4 is good, ramping into this t3 would be bonkers (though its still possible with t1 mystic, t2 caryatid, t3 hitting your third land untapped and able to produce U or B).
Where is this variety of sultai a thing? Decks that run mana dorks aren't generally aren't in the business of keeping 5 mana open on their opponent's turn...
Just out of curiosity, did you really talk yourself into saying that destroying a PLANESWALKER should cost "B"? I'm trying to gauge just how far removed from reality your card evaluation skills are.
It's between B an 1B, yeah.
For one color it would be BB. For two B + R. Blue doesn't deal with things permanently so the effect on the command would be FAIRLY costed at BB. Negate and boomerange are at 2 as well. Add both costs together then tack on one more due to the card giving you two effects out of four options. This makes it totally fairly costed. That said I still don't think it's really good enough beyond MAYBE being a one off in UB control to give it essentially an additional downfall, but that doesn't mean it's not fairly costed. It's just not pushed at all.
I don't think it matters really. They get to shoot off an ability either way. I learned this the hard way the first time I tried to bolt JtMS...
Um... they can't activate a pw in response to your spell.
Oh, I just mean when they cast their PW. They do get to use an ability before your removal kills it everytime. It has to do with holding priority after their PW resolves.
@ Pinball_Lizard (Great name btw) I think B instant speed planeswalker removal is fine. If your opponent doesn't have any PW's then you have a dead card. Dreadbore really sets the standard here. I don't think they'll make the card specifically since it's so limited. Killing PW's will probably always be stapled to other effects for practically zero mana. Just look at murder and hero's downfall.
- Distribute 2 +1/+1 counters among creatures you control
- Destroy target artifact or enchantment
- Put two 1/1 white Warrior craeture tokens onto the battlefield
- Exile target craeture. Its controller gains life equal to its toughness
^^
That would make it 2 2/2s for 2 mana. Very, very pushed, especially with the other modes, and the 4th ability is perfectly playable in its own right, even without any of the other effects. This card is broken value.
Now, that said, I do think you're on the right track for some of these effects. The Command probably will have a +1/+1 counter effect, a Naturalize effect, and probably a token effect. The Exile effect is unlikely unless the mana cost is huge, because they've learned their lesson with PTE and Swords to Plowshares. Nowdays, that effect costs ~4 mana (See Utter End ). 3 mana if it doesn't get other permanents, but still.
Compare your card to Selesnya Charm. It has a buff effect much less potent than 2 +1/+1 counters divided up, an exile effect that has a huge hoop to jump through, and a single 2/2 token. Not only is your card more versatile with its Naturalize effect, but you also get to choose two for the same mana. Also, Mardu Charm did the same effect with an upside (they gained Firststrike). Brutally overpowered.
The token effect and Counter effect may or may not be synergistic depending on Development decisions. If it proves to be a problem for it to be able to make a pair of 2/2 or 3/3 tokens, they can either nerf the token ability, nerf the counter ability, or word it so that you need to target the counters at the time of casting, which is probably the best option.
@ Pinball_Lizard (Great name btw) I think B instant speed planeswalker removal is fine. If your opponent doesn't have any PW's then you have a dead card. Dreadbore really sets the standard here. I don't think they'll make the card specifically since it's so limited. Killing PW's will probably always be stapled to other effects for practically zero mana. Just look at murder and hero's downfall.
I'm inclined to agree with, but on a command like this, you're getting to choose an additional effect rather than an alternative effect. I personally believe that cards like Hero's Downfall should cost as much as the most expensive option, not the cost of both options combined, which explains why it costs as much as Murder and not more. The same can be said of Dreadbore and Terminate. Meanwhile on a command, it should cost as much as the two most expensive options combined.
Even if we assume planewalker removal can be 1B (I'm not ready to agree to B), then adding Boomerang makes 1UUB, which adjusts to 3UB to fit the cycle. I'd even argue that Regress is a better comparison than Boomerang, but the math works out the same.
Something to keep in mind with Roast is how well it works with Soulfire Grand Master. Gain 5 life and cheaper for SGM's recursion ability. Turn 3 you are going to be way ahead of nearly any aggro deck with turn 2 SGM into this. Of course the ability to kill Rhinos is fantastic as well.
...destroy target planeswalker which should cost somewhere between B and 1B.
Just out of curiosity, did you really talk yourself into saying that destroying a PLANESWALKER should cost "B"? I'm trying to gauge just how far removed from reality your card evaluation skills are.
Nope, literally somewhere between. In card form, "Destroy target planeswalker" would likely cost 1B, but that is because the game doesn't deal in fractional mana outside of silver border land. The 2 mana planeswalker removal spells we have seen have been spells that the ability to destroy a planeswalker tacked on. Vampire Hexmage was a solid 2/1 first striker for 2 (nothing exciting, but still a reasonable rate for a black weenie creature) that had the ability to off itself to destroy a planeswalker as well as having other utility with it's activated ability. Dreadbore was a "post can't regenerate world"'s terminate that traded instant speed and rarity for the ability to hit walkers. As another poster mentioned, Hero's Downfall is strictly better Murder that hits walkers for no additional mana cost, just moved to rare because it says planeswalker.
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It's a decent tempo play, sure, but you still have to deal with the whisperwood. That puts you at card disadvantage to deal with the manifest and just stall the elemental. I think that's my biggest problem with this card; it doesn't often provide card advantage. Even with choose 2 of 4 modes, the best ways to use it (killing a walker and their token) are ways that don't actually generate any advantage, just stall. Even in control, your five mana spells aren't meant to just stall, they're meant to generate card advantage. At five mana, there are just too many scenarios for this card to not generate any card advantage for me to want it in the main board.
I wouldn't call bouncing a whisper wood and killing the manifest "card disadvantage". Its a 1 for 1 at worst. 2 for 1 at best.
Card's like stroke, negate, dissipate,downfall, etc. also do not create "card advantage".
I could see command replacing the 3rd and 4th stroke.
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Killing a planeswalker can be done for 2 mana with a bonus, see Vampire Hexmage and Dreadbore. This command costs at least 1 more than any possible permutation of the modes on the card- Last Gasp (which was later replaced by Grasp of Darkness), Negate, Boomerand, and destroy target planeswalker which should cost somewhere between B and 1B. 4 Mana could have been justified. As is, the last gasp effect comes online far too late at 5 cmc, and spending 5 on on a negate even with bonus is going to be awkward. Arc Scatter was of a similar ilk and completely unplayable, Far // Away saw only minor play in a format where the sacrifice effect was far more relevant than the -3/-3 is likely to be in this one, and it could be cast efficiently in the early game while also providing more value as far as dealing with creatures is concerned. This command should certainly be tested in small numbers, before passing judgement, but I'm fairly certain that it lies just outside the realm of playable.
Where is this variety of sultai a thing? Decks that run mana dorks aren't generally aren't in the business of keeping 5 mana open on their opponent's turn...
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I wouldn't be surpirsed if they cost that. Of all the "Cycles" Wizards feels they have to do, the increasing CMC is the worst. Because most of the cycles push half of the colors out of playability in almost all formats. Seriously stop making CMC cycles Wizards, a lot of people don't think that they are "Fun", they just ruin playability for cards.
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Roast has modern potential. It might as well read hose target junk deck as gofy is mostly a 4/5 also so you've got an answer to all their creatures. Downsides as a sorcery it can't hit manlands on the attack and can't hit annoying permanents like resto angel, pestermite and clique. Perhaps it will replace flame slash since that is there for spellskite which roast can also handle. An extra mana to be able to kill rhino/gofy seems a worthwhile trade off?
The command is underwhelming. At 5 mana it wouldn't be possible to justify more than a single maindeck copy. It's too slow for the majority of the non creatures played and is unable to kill the problem threats. I suppose as a topdeck on an empty board it could be ok to counter their planeswalker and bounce your scryland. Looks less impressive if you're using it to counter a burn spell though. As much as people say it would have been pushed at 4. Given cryptic (yes it's UUU) can hard counter at 4 this command should have been a hard counter or also 4 cmc.
I think two could be the correct number. I'm going to experimenting with using x2 commands instead of the 3rd and 4th stroke.
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It has been suggested in Speculation that one (Kolaghan's?) might be an X spell similar to Rakdos's Return, albeit with weaker effects.
Also to people evaluating the cost of combined effects, you also have to keep in mind the amount of colored mana. Boomerang is arguably pushed and hasn't seen reprint in a long time (since NWO). Instead we've been given Regress as more of the current standard for unconditional bounce. Also planewalker kill has never cost less than two colored mana, and given that every other effect on the command will account for at least U or B in the cost, they needed to add a colorless for balance.
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Instant
Choose 2
- Distribute 2 +1/+1 counters among creatures you control
- Destroy target artifact or enchantment
- Put two 1/1 white Warrior craeture tokens onto the battlefield
- Exile target craeture. Its controller gains life equal to its toughness
^^
Just out of curiosity, did you really talk yourself into saying that destroying a PLANESWALKER should cost "B"? I'm trying to gauge just how far removed from reality your card evaluation skills are.
I think he did.
Although I dislike that the new command costs 5... It could still see play. No more than 2... but its still a "decent" card. The question: is it good enough?
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It's between B an 1B, yeah.
Feel free to tell me yours!
Not at instant speed it's not.
I don't think it matters really. They get to shoot off an ability either way. I learned this the hard way the first time I tried to bolt JtMS...
Feel free to tell me yours!
I don't think that matters. It doesn't change the economy of mana costs. Planeswalker removal has never cost less than 2 colored mana. You can't say "but you could also kill a creature with Dreadbore" because it's either/or. That's like saying the command needs to cost as much as ALL the options, not just two. Considering that any other effect will account for at least one of the colored mana in the command, the planewalker option should be increased by one colorless to account for it's inclusion on this card.
Um... they can't activate a pw in response to your spell.
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Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
For one color it would be BB. For two B + R. Blue doesn't deal with things permanently so the effect on the command would be FAIRLY costed at BB. Negate and boomerange are at 2 as well. Add both costs together then tack on one more due to the card giving you two effects out of four options. This makes it totally fairly costed. That said I still don't think it's really good enough beyond MAYBE being a one off in UB control to give it essentially an additional downfall, but that doesn't mean it's not fairly costed. It's just not pushed at all.
Oh, I just mean when they cast their PW. They do get to use an ability before your removal kills it everytime. It has to do with holding priority after their PW resolves.
@ Pinball_Lizard (Great name btw) I think B instant speed planeswalker removal is fine. If your opponent doesn't have any PW's then you have a dead card. Dreadbore really sets the standard here. I don't think they'll make the card specifically since it's so limited. Killing PW's will probably always be stapled to other effects for practically zero mana. Just look at murder and hero's downfall.
Feel free to tell me yours!
That would make it 2 2/2s for 2 mana. Very, very pushed, especially with the other modes, and the 4th ability is perfectly playable in its own right, even without any of the other effects. This card is broken value.
Now, that said, I do think you're on the right track for some of these effects. The Command probably will have a +1/+1 counter effect, a Naturalize effect, and probably a token effect. The Exile effect is unlikely unless the mana cost is huge, because they've learned their lesson with PTE and Swords to Plowshares. Nowdays, that effect costs ~4 mana (See Utter End ). 3 mana if it doesn't get other permanents, but still.
Compare your card to Selesnya Charm. It has a buff effect much less potent than 2 +1/+1 counters divided up, an exile effect that has a huge hoop to jump through, and a single 2/2 token. Not only is your card more versatile with its Naturalize effect, but you also get to choose two for the same mana. Also, Mardu Charm did the same effect with an upside (they gained Firststrike). Brutally overpowered.
The token effect and Counter effect may or may not be synergistic depending on Development decisions. If it proves to be a problem for it to be able to make a pair of 2/2 or 3/3 tokens, they can either nerf the token ability, nerf the counter ability, or word it so that you need to target the counters at the time of casting, which is probably the best option.
I'm inclined to agree with, but on a command like this, you're getting to choose an additional effect rather than an alternative effect. I personally believe that cards like Hero's Downfall should cost as much as the most expensive option, not the cost of both options combined, which explains why it costs as much as Murder and not more. The same can be said of Dreadbore and Terminate. Meanwhile on a command, it should cost as much as the two most expensive options combined.
Even if we assume planewalker removal can be 1B (I'm not ready to agree to B), then adding Boomerang makes 1UUB, which adjusts to 3UB to fit the cycle. I'd even argue that Regress is a better comparison than Boomerang, but the math works out the same.
Also, thank you for the compliment
Nope, literally somewhere between. In card form, "Destroy target planeswalker" would likely cost 1B, but that is because the game doesn't deal in fractional mana outside of silver border land. The 2 mana planeswalker removal spells we have seen have been spells that the ability to destroy a planeswalker tacked on. Vampire Hexmage was a solid 2/1 first striker for 2 (nothing exciting, but still a reasonable rate for a black weenie creature) that had the ability to off itself to destroy a planeswalker as well as having other utility with it's activated ability. Dreadbore was a "post can't regenerate world"'s terminate that traded instant speed and rarity for the ability to hit walkers. As another poster mentioned, Hero's Downfall is strictly better Murder that hits walkers for no additional mana cost, just moved to rare because it says planeswalker.