I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
This card just seems... bad. The fact that it pumps zombies is largely irrelevant as the best zombie maker in standard fills your graveyard with creatures. The drawback on recasting this thing feels like overkill, paying 4 mana for a 4/3 vanilla that can't block seems pretty terrible, even if you can cast it from the grave (sometimes).
You don't play it in a creature deck if you want to play it competitively - casting something from the graveyard without drawbacks, and without exiling it, is very strong and few such creatures are this relevant. Even in a non-creature deck there are currently a bunch of ways to make zombie tokens, ignoring for now the delve zombies and Empty the Pits (which is frankly unplayable even with this). It's not the best friend of Bridge from Below , but there are plenty of other ways to make zombies.
I was thinking of some type of Loam Pox list but Haakon, Stromgald Scourge is just better even though you can't cast it from your hand. Generally, I'm not even sure if casting this from your graveyard for 2BB is high impact enough regardless of format.
I like the card, I think it's definitely strong enough to be experimented enough in standard, but I wasn't expecting a card like this at all. Zombie lord that doesn't interact with the rest of the block? WOTC sure threw us a curveball there.
On the bright side, Empty the Pits + This guy is something that could happen.
Well, us fans of mono black mythics got spoiled last set with something useful in Brutal Hordechief. Looks like it's back to reality with this steaming pile of jank
I wonder if this guy could be used in a control type shell? If he's one of your only creatures, he could be a very resilient threat you can use to close the game away through your opponent's removal. I like the synergy with Delve either way, especially because Delve isn't even in the set. It's a nice way to tie the blocks together.
Definitely disagree with everyone saying it doesn't deserve mythic status. Zombie lords are almost always 2/2 for 3 with no way to protect themselves. Being a 4/3 for 4 is a real step up and being able to bring it back is icing. This is a nice aggressive zombie lord to top the curve in casual zombie tribal. Be glad it's mythic because it means you'll be opening it less in draft.
I guess this is cool for those people who want their casual zombie decks to be Modern legal, and can't run Undead Warchief in their four-drop spot? Even then I'd probably want to shrug off the flavor and just run Phyrexian Obliterator or something...
Personally, I think the biggest flavor fail with this is that Risen Executioner does nothing to kill other creatures. Seems to me this guy would be much more mythic with an Exploit ability, and the increased graveyard cost would make more sense if we were getting something more than a body.
And of course there's the fact that +1/+1 doesn't keep your army of Zombie tokens safe from Bile Blight. +2/+2, or even +1/+2, would make this guy a heck of a lot better than he actually is.
A zombie that doesn't want you to have creatures in your graveyard. I uh. Don't know how I feel.
This basically sums up how I feel. I mean I know they wanted to make it less powerful but damn I don't wanna pay 6-7 to get this back...
On another note this + Sidisi and her zombies could make for a real beating
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Casual Decks WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery) RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***) URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you) GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR) GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though) BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz) WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?) WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you) GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie) BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you) URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA) RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb) GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun) WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL) GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz) GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE) GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...) UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos) RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!) WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
I guess this is cool for those people who want their casual zombie decks to be Modern legal, and can't run Undead Warchief in their four-drop spot? Even then I'd probably want to shrug off the flavor and just run Phyrexian Obliterator or something...
I hope this card won't be expensive
and I like the synergy with empty the pits cast at the end of opponent turn delve out some creature and cast this one
just fun to play
Zombies get pretty consistent support, regards of the amount of Sultai zombies at the moment, core sets always have a few and they are the go to basic for black. This will have it's place.
Bam. 4 terrible black mythics IN A ROW. Let the bad times roll.
This is the second monocolored okyish RARE to be printed at mythic in this set. That green shaman is just a middling powered rare too. Maybe all the mono colored mythics are going to be this bad...
Definitely disagree with everyone saying it doesn't deserve mythic status. Zombie lords are almost always 2/2 for 3 with no way to protect themselves. Being a 4/3 for 4 is a real step up and being able to bring it back is icing. This is a nice aggressive zombie lord to top the curve in casual zombie tribal. Be glad it's mythic because it means you'll be opening it less in draft.
Everyone thinking of Zombie Vengevine as primarily a zombie lord, how about looking at it like this - say you run a deck with 4 of these and no other creatures. Now look at this card's type line.
If you have one, you have a non-hasty Vengevine that can't block. That's fair for 2BB given that it's easier to recur than Vengevine; ultimately it's less powerful, but still arguably Mythic-worthy. And that's the worst case in which you'll realistically run this card. But if you have two - one in the yard, one in play - you're suddenly paying 4 to get a 5/4 into play and give your other one +1/+1. Even if you end up having to pay both from the yard, 5 mana isn't too far over the odds to get the first one back.
Sure, it's cool that in casual decks this is a zombie lord. But that's just a nice addition on a competitive design - the only zombies it's really intended to pump are other Risen Executioners. Complaining that it's bad in a deck full of creatures is a bit like sticking Oath of Druids in a token deck and complaining that it's crap because you always have more creatures than your opponent.
Right, but not every card can be a dragon card. Dragons are popular, but some people don't like them that much and so it makes sense that WotC would want to give those other people some higher-profile cards too. This interacts in a cool way with Delve and I'm excited to play it.
I'm kind of lukewarm on dragons, so I appreciate this from them. However, I'd have liked it if they'd done another wedge set even more. There is SO much material in Magic's back catalog for three-color shards and two-color decks. I'd like more for the wedges, but alas, 'tis not to be.
That's mitigated by some of the new cards being VERY good, though. I've already preordered a Sunscorch Regent.
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My current decks!
http://tappedout.net/users/ThePhasewalker/
You don't play it in a creature deck if you want to play it competitively - casting something from the graveyard without drawbacks, and without exiling it, is very strong and few such creatures are this relevant. Even in a non-creature deck there are currently a bunch of ways to make zombie tokens, ignoring for now the delve zombies and Empty the Pits (which is frankly unplayable even with this). It's not the best friend of Bridge from Below , but there are plenty of other ways to make zombies.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
On the bright side, Empty the Pits + This guy is something that could happen.
360-cube - Suggestions welcome!
hahaha, exactly. Wotc must have something against black mythics, there is no other explanation.
And of course there's the fact that +1/+1 doesn't keep your army of Zombie tokens safe from Bile Blight. +2/+2, or even +1/+2, would make this guy a heck of a lot better than he actually is.
This basically sums up how I feel. I mean I know they wanted to make it less powerful but damn I don't wanna pay 6-7 to get this back...
On another note this + Sidisi and her zombies could make for a real beating
WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery)
RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***)
URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you)
GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR)
GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though)
BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz)
WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?)
WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you)
GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie)
BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you)
URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb)
GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun)
WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL)
GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks
UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz)
GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE)
GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...)
UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders
WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos)
RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard
RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!)
WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
Ah, but you can run Undead Warchief in Modern.
and I like the synergy with empty the pits cast at the end of opponent turn delve out some creature and cast this one
just fun to play
Return to Innistrad confirmed as the fall 2015 block.
This is the second monocolored okyish RARE to be printed at mythic in this set. That green shaman is just a middling powered rare too. Maybe all the mono colored mythics are going to be this bad...
Feel free to tell me yours!
Everyone thinking of Zombie Vengevine as primarily a zombie lord, how about looking at it like this - say you run a deck with 4 of these and no other creatures. Now look at this card's type line.
If you have one, you have a non-hasty Vengevine that can't block. That's fair for 2BB given that it's easier to recur than Vengevine; ultimately it's less powerful, but still arguably Mythic-worthy. And that's the worst case in which you'll realistically run this card. But if you have two - one in the yard, one in play - you're suddenly paying 4 to get a 5/4 into play and give your other one +1/+1. Even if you end up having to pay both from the yard, 5 mana isn't too far over the odds to get the first one back.
Sure, it's cool that in casual decks this is a zombie lord. But that's just a nice addition on a competitive design - the only zombies it's really intended to pump are other Risen Executioners. Complaining that it's bad in a deck full of creatures is a bit like sticking Oath of Druids in a token deck and complaining that it's crap because you always have more creatures than your opponent.
I'm kind of lukewarm on dragons, so I appreciate this from them. However, I'd have liked it if they'd done another wedge set even more. There is SO much material in Magic's back catalog for three-color shards and two-color decks. I'd like more for the wedges, but alas, 'tis not to be.
That's mitigated by some of the new cards being VERY good, though. I've already preordered a Sunscorch Regent.