Aaaaand with Humble Defector, there goes the theory about no enemy color watermarked clan cards...
Unless...seeing this is a Mardu deserter...and uncommon....there could be a whole cycle of defectors, one for each clan. Making it a very special case.
Maybe this is how the clans originally get their third color?
If this is a cycle, then the others should be:
White - Abzan -> Mardu
Blue - Jeskai -> Temur
Black - Sultai -> Abzan
(Red - Mardu -> Jeskai)
Green - Temur -> Sultai
Let we see if we got another defector. Flavorwise, I can hardly imagine Sultai into Abzan, Abzan into Mardu was demonstrated to be more usual in opposite direction (in present Tarkir). Only the Temur-Sultai...we know that Temur used to be enslaved by Sultai along their bears, so this might be how green trickled into UB.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
weeelll, doublestrike^^ if she or another dragon can attack its gonna get nasty.. but 7 mana and probably no immediate impact is probably not good enough. she should cost 6.
Crazy talk. 12 power's worth of flying trample... you think should cost 6?
Cost 6 in green which essentially means turn 5 if not sooner. yeah no 7 is the right cost.
I will say this in draft if I get this in my FRF pack? I'm drafting lightning shriekers for sure
So what happens if you have no valid opponent to target for Humble Defector?
Does it just completely fizzle?
If there was no valid target opponent, you couldn't even activate the ability.
If there was a valid target opponent when you activated the ability but that opponent became an illegal target by the time the ability resolves, then yes, the ability would 'fizzle' (be countered). No cards for you.
No, that is not how it works. First of all, Humble Defector does not have any triggered ability, it has an activated ability. It is a single activated ability. When it resolves, you follow all of the instructions in order, and no one gets to take any actions during the resolution of the ability*. Therefore, you can't play an instant between when you draw the cards and when target opponent gains control of Humble Defector.
*Exception: If the resolution of an effect asks for a mana payment, you may activate mana abilities at that time.
Extra explanation:
When you activate Humble Defector's ability, the stack looks like this.
[Draw two cards. OPPONENT gains control of Humble Defector]
Not like this:
[Draw two cards]
[OPPONENT gains control of Humble Defector]
I think that it's incorrect too. Being sacrificed at the end step is a caracteristic of the token, even if you dont control it anymore it will be sacrificed
It's not. The game doesn't tell the controller of the token to sacrifice it, it tells "you" to sacrifice it, which in the game means "the controller of this spell or ability," on a spell or ability. Feldon would have to give a sacrifice trigger to the creature to make it's controller sacrifice it at end of turn.
If you have no valid target, say opponent has hexproof, you can't activate the ability.
If after you activate it, and the target becomes illegal, like hexproof or opponent dies in a multi-player game, the ability fizzles, ie countered.
Also, if you can some how untap it before the ability resolves, you can activate it again. Since you control all the activated abilities, all the targets would still be legal barring other interactions, and you would draw 2 per activation. Also, in multi-player situation, if you pick different opponents, he will keep changing players as the ability resolves.
Also, you draw cards even if he is no longer on the battlefield. He could have blink potential.
Can you respond you your own Humble Defector ability? Assuming you have Jeskai Ascendancy in play, can you just hold priority and play instants to untap him, then tap in response to the first activation?
Defector is the 'put into Zedruu decks' card of the set. (They seem to do roughly one per set.)
Why would one assume that every Zedruu deck wants this card just because you can give it away for free and net two cards in the process? That said, I'm considering it for Zedruu
Can you respond you your own Humble Defector ability? Assuming you have Jeskai Ascendancy in play, can you just hold priority and play instants to untap him, then tap in response to the first activation?
Yep. If something isn't a part of the cost of a spell or ability it can be responded to. If you wanted you could sacrifice or blink it in response to the ability and then draw 2 cards without handing anything over.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Aaaaand with Humble Defector, there goes the theory about no enemy color watermarked clan cards...
Unless...seeing this is a Mardu deserter...and uncommon....there could be a whole cycle of defectors, one for each clan. Making it a very special case.
Maybe this is how the clans originally get their third color?
If this is a cycle, then the others should be:
White - Abzan -> Mardu
Blue - Jeskai -> Temur
Black - Sultai -> Abzan
(Red - Mardu -> Jeskai)
Green - Temur -> Sultai
Let we see if we got another defector. Flavorwise, I can hardly imagine Sultai into Abzan, Abzan into Mardu was demonstrated to be more usual in opposite direction (in present Tarkir). Only the Temur-Sultai...we know that Temur used to be enslaved by Sultai along their bears, so this might be how green trickled into UB.
Well, Sultai into Abzan is pretty easy, an escaped slave of some kind. Though it would be probably more interesting to see something like the first Krumar.
Can you respond you your own Humble Defector ability? Assuming you have Jeskai Ascendancy in play, can you just hold priority and play instants to untap him, then tap in response to the first activation?
Yep. If something isn't a part of the cost of a spell or ability it can be responded to. If you wanted you could sacrifice or blink it in response to the ability and then draw 2 cards without handing anything over.
What would happen? Draw 2, donate, then nothing because you no longer control it OR Draw, 2, donate, draw 2...?
Aaaaand with Humble Defector, there goes the theory about no enemy color watermarked clan cards...
Unless...seeing this is a Mardu deserter...and uncommon....there could be a whole cycle of defectors, one for each clan. Making it a very special case.
Maybe this is how the clans originally get their third color?
If this is a cycle, then the others should be:
White - Abzan -> Mardu
Blue - Jeskai -> Temur
Black - Sultai -> Abzan
(Red - Mardu -> Jeskai)
Green - Temur -> Sultai
I really like this theory and hope its true (though I slightly doubt it'll come to pass seeing as I find it hard to believe wizards would print a whole cycle of creatures that give themselves away). Nevertheless this is one of my FAVORITE new cards from FRF! My god are there so many ways to abuse this (Jeskai Ascendancy, sac outlets, homeward path, etc.) and I LOVE the political implications for EDH! I'll certainly enjoy teaming up with someone to draw dozens of cards at the expense of the 'threat player' (but I'll actually be the real threat MUAHAHAHAHA).
Atarka seems sick in EDH and casual! Gotta love them fat dragons!!! However the four toughness and high cost probably rule this out of competitive standard even though Xenagos shenanigans seem sick.
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Casual Decks WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery) RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***) URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you) GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR) GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though) BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz) WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?) WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you) GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie) BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you) URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA) RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb) GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun) WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL) GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz) GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE) GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...) UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos) RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!) WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
People seem to have a hard time understanding stacking the defector with Jeskai Ascendancy.
Tap Defector
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
While ability is on stack, cast a non-creature spell (instant speed)
Ascendancy Triggers
[Draw, Discard]
[Untap all creatures you control]
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
Allow the first triggers two triggers to resolve. Then tap Defector again.
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
While both defector abilities are on the stack, cast another instant spell.
[Draw, Discard]
[Untap all creatures you control]
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
You can repeat this process as many times as you like, as long as you have the instants to play in response. Ascendancy will help you replace non-instants with instants. Then, when you're out of instants, tap the defector one last time. Then, resolve the stack. Each defector ability on the stack resolves, each time the same opponent gaining control of defector (which does nothing after the first time).
Viola, draw 2 cards plus 2 more cards for each instant you play in response. I would imagine you'd have a hard time losing at that point. As a bonus, if you get a retraction helix as your final spell (and have another creature), you can bounce the defector, and then tap it in response. The defector will go to your opponent, then bounce to your hand, and then you draw 2 for each ability on the stack.
If you see a Jeskai Ascendancy player put this guy into play, kill it on sight, otherwise they are going to draw a LOT of cards.
Can you respond you your own Humble Defector ability? Assuming you have Jeskai Ascendancy in play, can you just hold priority and play instants to untap him, then tap in response to the first activation?
Yep. If something isn't a part of the cost of a spell or ability it can be responded to. If you wanted you could sacrifice or blink it in response to the ability and then draw 2 cards without handing anything over.
What would happen? Draw 2, donate, then nothing because you no longer control it OR Draw, 2, donate, draw 2...?
Defector's ability is not dependent on you controlling him, as you still control the ability. Draw 2, donate, draw 2 again, donate again. (Donate again isn't usually relevant, but if they can untap it and hand it back with the second trigger on the stack I guess it is.)
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Defector's ability doesn't have the "target opponent gains control" in the cost. So you can have multiple activations with creature untap abilities. Is there anything in standard that untaps your creatures at instant speed, maybe some stupid enchantment?
R Heartless Hidetsugu R Godo, Bandit Warlord G Kamahl, Fist of Krosa B Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker RG Thromok the Insatiable WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
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Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
GGo Elf YourselfG
WThat Cat Has A Knife!W
BUGWhip your assBUG
Does it just completely fizzle?
Let we see if we got another defector. Flavorwise, I can hardly imagine Sultai into Abzan, Abzan into Mardu was demonstrated to be more usual in opposite direction (in present Tarkir). Only the Temur-Sultai...we know that Temur used to be enslaved by Sultai along their bears, so this might be how green trickled into UB.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Cost 6 in green which essentially means turn 5 if not sooner. yeah no 7 is the right cost.
I will say this in draft if I get this in my FRF pack? I'm drafting lightning shriekers for sure
If there was no valid target opponent, you couldn't even activate the ability.
If there was a valid target opponent when you activated the ability but that opponent became an illegal target by the time the ability resolves, then yes, the ability would 'fizzle' (be countered). No cards for you.
.
Ah ok thanks!
It's not. The game doesn't tell the controller of the token to sacrifice it, it tells "you" to sacrifice it, which in the game means "the controller of this spell or ability," on a spell or ability. Feldon would have to give a sacrifice trigger to the creature to make it's controller sacrifice it at end of turn.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Yes. That is what we are discussing here with Marek14.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
You can't activate a targeted ability without a target. If the target becomes invalid after activating it, then it fizzles.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
If after you activate it, and the target becomes illegal, like hexproof or opponent dies in a multi-player game, the ability fizzles, ie countered.
Also, if you can some how untap it before the ability resolves, you can activate it again. Since you control all the activated abilities, all the targets would still be legal barring other interactions, and you would draw 2 per activation. Also, in multi-player situation, if you pick different opponents, he will keep changing players as the ability resolves.
Also, you draw cards even if he is no longer on the battlefield. He could have blink potential.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
Yep. If something isn't a part of the cost of a spell or ability it can be responded to. If you wanted you could sacrifice or blink it in response to the ability and then draw 2 cards without handing anything over.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Well, Sultai into Abzan is pretty easy, an escaped slave of some kind. Though it would be probably more interesting to see something like the first Krumar.
What would happen? Draw 2, donate, then nothing because you no longer control it OR Draw, 2, donate, draw 2...?
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
I really like this theory and hope its true (though I slightly doubt it'll come to pass seeing as I find it hard to believe wizards would print a whole cycle of creatures that give themselves away). Nevertheless this is one of my FAVORITE new cards from FRF! My god are there so many ways to abuse this (Jeskai Ascendancy, sac outlets, homeward path, etc.) and I LOVE the political implications for EDH! I'll certainly enjoy teaming up with someone to draw dozens of cards at the expense of the 'threat player' (but I'll actually be the real threat MUAHAHAHAHA).
Atarka seems sick in EDH and casual! Gotta love them fat dragons!!! However the four toughness and high cost probably rule this out of competitive standard even though Xenagos shenanigans seem sick.
WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery)
RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***)
URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you)
GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR)
GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though)
BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz)
WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?)
WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you)
GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie)
BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you)
URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb)
GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun)
WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL)
GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks
UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz)
GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE)
GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...)
UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders
WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos)
RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard
RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!)
WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
Tap Defector
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
While ability is on stack, cast a non-creature spell (instant speed)
Ascendancy Triggers
[Draw, Discard]
[Untap all creatures you control]
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
Allow the first triggers two triggers to resolve. Then tap Defector again.
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
While both defector abilities are on the stack, cast another instant spell.
[Draw, Discard]
[Untap all creatures you control]
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
[Draw 2, target opponent gains control of defector]
You can repeat this process as many times as you like, as long as you have the instants to play in response. Ascendancy will help you replace non-instants with instants. Then, when you're out of instants, tap the defector one last time. Then, resolve the stack. Each defector ability on the stack resolves, each time the same opponent gaining control of defector (which does nothing after the first time).
Viola, draw 2 cards plus 2 more cards for each instant you play in response. I would imagine you'd have a hard time losing at that point. As a bonus, if you get a retraction helix as your final spell (and have another creature), you can bounce the defector, and then tap it in response. The defector will go to your opponent, then bounce to your hand, and then you draw 2 for each ability on the stack.
If you see a Jeskai Ascendancy player put this guy into play, kill it on sight, otherwise they are going to draw a LOT of cards.
Defector's ability is not dependent on you controlling him, as you still control the ability. Draw 2, donate, draw 2 again, donate again. (Donate again isn't usually relevant, but if they can untap it and hand it back with the second trigger on the stack I guess it is.)
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Welp, gotta make room in my Scion deck now.
Defector is another EDH gem! Thanks WotC
Real Men Play Aggro
EDH:
R Heartless Hidetsugu
R Godo, Bandit Warlord
G Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
B Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
RG Thromok the Insatiable
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon