I don't like this at all. Why print 2 red dragons while every other dragon is part of a cycle?
At least if it was mythic/rare/felt different/legendary character... But another boring common? Why "breking" the cycles? This makes no sense.
Because dragons are red?
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
EVERY common is a common that might actually touch a few kitchen tables.
Yeah yeah yeah thanks, there are probably kitchen tables out there that play Grizzly Bears and Hill Giants, but you know very well what I mean. This has a lot of words printed on it for a common and while it's obviously weaksauce, Little Bobby's janky Sundial.dec can do worse than a $0.10, 5/5 flying haste trample for 5CC.
Yeah yeah, there are probably kitchen tables out there that play Grizzly Bears and Hill Giants, but you know very well what I mean. This has a lot of words printed on it for a common and while it's obviously weaksauce, Little Bobby's janky Sundial.dec can do worse than a $0.10, 5/5 flying haste trample for 5CC.
How many "Little Bobby's" do you honestly think are building random Sundial decks?
Its a really cool card. For players just entering the game, this will be the best card ever to them.
"Are you saying that I get this cool dragon with all these awesome abilities for only five mana that saves himself from dying? Sign me up!"
I'll use it in some casual decks. Its just a fun card. Its also a trap, but its a fun trap.
Its a really cool card. For players just entering the game, this will be the best card ever to them. "Are you saying that I get this cool dragon with all these awesome abilities for only five mana that saves himself from dying? Sign me up!"
I'll use it in some casual decks. Its just a fun card. Its also a trap, but its a fun trap.
I actually think they're MUCH more likely to say "You mean I get this really cool dragon, but I don't get to keep him? Messed up!"
For those saying worse that Lava Axe, keep in mind that in Tarkir Limited it will also trigger Ferocious. I'd be just fine if this was card 22 or 23 in a draft.
If I get a Soulflayer in sealed I'll run this in the hopes of being able to dump it into the graveyard with self-mill. Or if I just want a Lava Axe (and don't go Jeskai), I guess. My main problem is the fact that it's shuffling at common. At least it's end step, so the other player can start doing things while the shuffling is going on, but I'm a slow/bad shuffler and I know there are going to be other people that are slow/bad shufflers, so the fact that it's at common means there's a high chance of time being wasted shuffling at some point.
...actually, my main problem is that the red common Dragon isn't Dragon Hatchling, which costs substantially less mana than the brood mothers, meaning it would actually work well with Kolaghan and Atarka. As opposed to this thing, which you would want to cast after the legendaries if you wanted to stack the effects, and it would only stack once. *sigh* Will have to hold out hope that we see a couple of reprints along those lines in DTK (Slumbering Dragon would potentially be a fun one for constructed, the Hatchling, maybe Dragon Whelp and/or Dragon Egg for limited), or at least new cards that are comparable, so that the "attack with tons of dragons for value" thing is actually viable.
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"The true measure of all heroes is not what they achieve, but who they inspire." —Triumph of Gerrard
I think this might be playable in Limited - at least in Sealed. I've lost to mill more than once in a Sealed game, and a 5/5 flying body does a few relevant things at least.
How many "Little Bobby's" do you honestly think are building random Sundial decks?
Sundial is exactly the sort of thing I would have built around in my young, abuse-jank-cards days if it had been printed earlier. Besides, Sundial was just one example. Even during this exchange people have mentioned Ferocious, Soulflayer, etc...
Sorry, I gotta ask -- are we having this discussion because you'd rather have Lava Axes and Hill Giants (or Treasure Cruises?) in the common slots or were you just attacking the "kitchen table" comment?
Also keep in mind that since this is a common you can potentially get quite a few of these and have reliable top decks late game that keep coming back. Not saying that it's great if you need something else at the time but knowing you can get a 5/5 out at potentially any time is far from the worst thing out there.
How many "Little Bobby's" do you honestly think are building random Sundial decks?
Sundial is exactly the sort of thing I would have built around in my young, abuse-jank-cards days if it had been printed earlier.
Sorry, I gotta ask -- are we having this discussion because you'd rather have Lava Axes and Hill Giants in the common slots or were you just attacking the "kitchen table" comment?
I think the entire mind set you have is bizarre. I've taught many kids how to play the game over the years, and I've NEVER seen any of them instantly jumping to "I want to abuse janky cards while playing with my friends". It just never happens. They almost all start off with a VERY "Timmy" mindset of "I want to play big, massive, impressive monsters and wreck house with them! Dragons and hydras and giants!!!" I can't picture any of those young, new players being happy about only being able to keep their shiny, impressive dragon for just one turn, and having to essentially jump through janky hoops (per your example) to keep the dragon longer. Chances are, they'll just play something like Shivan Dragon or Siege Dragon and be much happier.
Skill tester. It throws off combat math, but no more than Arrow Storm does, and Arrow Storm is significantly better. Nice to see more dragons, but I'm guessing we'll see better dragon cards in DTK.
This has quite a lot more fun synergies than the Axe, though. Dragon shenanigans, Sundial of the Infinite, Fling & reanimate. This is a common -- cough cough! -- that might actually touch a few kitchen tables. It's fine.
EVERY common is a common that might actually touch a few kitchen tables.
Wow, what a wonderful contribution. Thanks for your constructive answer. Please, (if you excuse me), do not write in CAPITAL characters, there is not need to yell your fascinating way to answer the kind comments of other people.
Yeah yeah, there are probably kitchen tables out there that play Grizzly Bears and Hill Giants, but you know very well what I mean. This has a lot of words printed on it for a common and while it's obviously weaksauce, Little Bobby's janky Sundial.dec can do worse than a $0.10, 5/5 flying haste trample for 5CC.
How many "Little Bobby's" do you honestly think are building random Sundial decks?
I know a couple. But you will find a way to discredit me, won't you?
Its a really cool card. For players just entering the game, this will be the best card ever to them. "Are you saying that I get this cool dragon with all these awesome abilities for only five mana that saves himself from dying? Sign me up!"
I'll use it in some casual decks. Its just a fun card. Its also a trap, but its a fun trap.
I actually think they're MUCH more likely to say "You mean I get this really cool dragon, but I don't get to keep him? Messed up!"
Why they will think that? Because you think that? Well, my friend, not every Magic player is trying to find de down-sides in a card.
Why they will think that? Because you think that? Well, my friend, not every Magic player is trying to find de down-sides in a card.
Have a nice day!!!
Why wouldn't they think that? MaRo has said time and time again that new players outright loathe downsides on cards. This is a HUGE downside on a card.
This card has nil synergy with sundail. You just postpone the inevitable. It'll get shuffled in on your opponents' turn.
Bad card. But, another example of why it's going to be crucial to leave behind blockers this limited season, even against an empty field. Lots and lots of haste running around.
I think the entire mind set you have is bizarre. I've taught many kids how to play the game over the years, and I've NEVER seen any of them instantly jumping to "I want to abuse janky cards while playing with my friends"...
Alright, I've got a pretty good idea of what sort of person I'm talking to at this point so I won't go much further here. I'll just reiterate that Sundial is a) exactly the sort of thing that would have excited me in my high school days, and b) not nearly the only idea mentioned in this thread. Nobody is saying this card is good, but I'm happy to see commons with more keywords and deckbuilding routes printed on them, while not being as good as Treasure Cruise.
How many "Little Bobby's" do you honestly think are building random Sundial decks?
Sundial is exactly the sort of thing I would have built around in my young, abuse-jank-cards days if it had been printed earlier.
Sorry, I gotta ask -- are we having this discussion because you'd rather have Lava Axes and Hill Giants in the common slots or were you just attacking the "kitchen table" comment?
I think the entire mind set you have is bizarre. I've taught many kids how to play the game over the years, and I've NEVER seen any of them instantly jumping to "I want to abuse janky cards while playing with my friends". It just never happens. They almost all start off with a VERY "Timmy" mindset of "I want to play big, massive, impressive monsters and wreck house with them! Dragons and hydras and giants!!!" I can't picture any of those young, new players being happy about only being able to keep their shiny, impressive dragon for just one turn, and having to essentially jump through janky hoops (per your example) to keep the dragon longer. Chances are, they'll just play something like Shivan Dragon or Siege Dragon and be much happier.
I'd like to point out that from the day I learned to play Magic, I've always been a Johnny, interested in card combos far more than beating face. So, your sample is far from representative of all new players.
I think the entire mind set you have is bizarre. I've taught many kids how to play the game over the years, and I've NEVER seen any of them instantly jumping to "I want to abuse janky cards while playing with my friends"...
Alright, I've got a pretty good idea of what sort of person I'm talking to at this point so I won't go much further here. I'll just reiterate that Sundial is a) exactly the sort of thing that would have excited me in my high school days, and b) not nearly the only idea mentioned in this thread. Nobody is saying this card is good, but I'm happy to see commons being printed with more keywords and deckbuilding routes printed on them, while not being as good as Treasure Cruise.
And I'll just reiterate that, as pointed out by others, Sundial does not work with this card, and also that there are no deckbuilding routes being offered here. This is a bad card. An interesting card, sure, but a bad one, and one that is possibly a skill tester, particularly for new players who might be tempted by the fact that it's a dragon.
I'd like to point out that from the day I learned to play Magic, I've always been a Johnny, interested in card combos far more than beating face. So, your sample is far from representative of all new players.
I never said I spoke with regards to all new players. As I said, I'm speaking about MOST of the young new players that I, specifically, have taught.
Why dont use Whip of erebos? this card goes to the graveyard revive it, go to library, and everytime its goes to the graveyard you can make it back to the library after attacking.
Because dragons are red?
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Yeah yeah yeah thanks, there are probably kitchen tables out there that play Grizzly Bears and Hill Giants, but you know very well what I mean. This has a lot of words printed on it for a common and while it's obviously weaksauce, Little Bobby's janky Sundial.dec can do worse than a $0.10, 5/5 flying haste trample for 5CC.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
I wonder if the shuffle effect can be used in red EDH decks like eternal dragon is for white decks (or was)
How many "Little Bobby's" do you honestly think are building random Sundial decks?
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
"Are you saying that I get this cool dragon with all these awesome abilities for only five mana that saves himself from dying? Sign me up!"
I'll use it in some casual decks. Its just a fun card. Its also a trap, but its a fun trap.
I actually think they're MUCH more likely to say "You mean I get this really cool dragon, but I don't get to keep him? Messed up!"
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
...actually, my main problem is that the red common Dragon isn't Dragon Hatchling, which costs substantially less mana than the brood mothers, meaning it would actually work well with Kolaghan and Atarka. As opposed to this thing, which you would want to cast after the legendaries if you wanted to stack the effects, and it would only stack once. *sigh* Will have to hold out hope that we see a couple of reprints along those lines in DTK (Slumbering Dragon would potentially be a fun one for constructed, the Hatchling, maybe Dragon Whelp and/or Dragon Egg for limited), or at least new cards that are comparable, so that the "attack with tons of dragons for value" thing is actually viable.
Sundial is exactly the sort of thing I would have built around in my young, abuse-jank-cards days if it had been printed earlier. Besides, Sundial was just one example. Even during this exchange people have mentioned Ferocious, Soulflayer, etc...
Sorry, I gotta ask -- are we having this discussion because you'd rather have Lava Axes and Hill Giants (or Treasure Cruises?) in the common slots or were you just attacking the "kitchen table" comment?
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
I think the entire mind set you have is bizarre. I've taught many kids how to play the game over the years, and I've NEVER seen any of them instantly jumping to "I want to abuse janky cards while playing with my friends". It just never happens. They almost all start off with a VERY "Timmy" mindset of "I want to play big, massive, impressive monsters and wreck house with them! Dragons and hydras and giants!!!" I can't picture any of those young, new players being happy about only being able to keep their shiny, impressive dragon for just one turn, and having to essentially jump through janky hoops (per your example) to keep the dragon longer. Chances are, they'll just play something like Shivan Dragon or Siege Dragon and be much happier.
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
Wow, what a wonderful contribution. Thanks for your constructive answer. Please, (if you excuse me), do not write in CAPITAL characters, there is not need to yell your fascinating way to answer the kind comments of other people.
I know a couple. But you will find a way to discredit me, won't you?
Why they will think that? Because you think that? Well, my friend, not every Magic player is trying to find de down-sides in a card.
Have a nice day!!!
3BB
Sorcery
You lose the game.
Why wouldn't they think that? MaRo has said time and time again that new players outright loathe downsides on cards. This is a HUGE downside on a card.
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
Bad card. But, another example of why it's going to be crucial to leave behind blockers this limited season, even against an empty field. Lots and lots of haste running around.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
This card doesn't work with Sundial though, because it will just shuffle on your opponent's end step.
Alright, I've got a pretty good idea of what sort of person I'm talking to at this point so I won't go much further here. I'll just reiterate that Sundial is a) exactly the sort of thing that would have excited me in my high school days, and b) not nearly the only idea mentioned in this thread. Nobody is saying this card is good, but I'm happy to see commons with more keywords and deckbuilding routes printed on them, while not being as good as Treasure Cruise.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
I'd like to point out that from the day I learned to play Magic, I've always been a Johnny, interested in card combos far more than beating face. So, your sample is far from representative of all new players.
And I'll just reiterate that, as pointed out by others, Sundial does not work with this card, and also that there are no deckbuilding routes being offered here. This is a bad card. An interesting card, sure, but a bad one, and one that is possibly a skill tester, particularly for new players who might be tempted by the fact that it's a dragon.
I never said I spoke with regards to all new players. As I said, I'm speaking about MOST of the young new players that I, specifically, have taught.
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
N/A
Modern:
Grishoalbrand / Grixis Death's Shadow / Jeskai Control / UW Control
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