In a sense its a better momentous fall because you aren't saccing the creature, you're losing it in its natural course. In many, many more senses, yeah, its a worse momentous fall, if the opponent can just keep your creature alive and ignore it somehow its a dead card and unlike fall which capitalized on fizzling spot removal on an already doomed creature, this is fizzled by spot removal in a 2-for-1.
If you're playing a deck featuring Doran, the Siege Tower and its ilk, their power tends to be lower than their toughness. In that case, Fruit is a better choice as card draw than MF.
If you're playing a deck featuring Doran, the Siege Tower and its ilk, their power tends to be lower than their toughness. In that case, Fruit is a better choice as card draw than MF.
Well... yes.
but you'd not play this card in a Doran deck, would you?
I said it's mostly a worse Momentous Fall, and it is...
there are, surely, a bunch of situations where you'd rather have this...
still, I don't see me playing this card anytime soon, except for limited where it can really shine, specially in sealed.
...You can enchant an opponent's creature with it too, though one is indeed better off building their deck to capitalize on enchanting their own creatures with it.
...You can enchant an opponent's creature with it too, though one is indeed better off building their deck to capitalize on enchanting their own creatures with it.
even though this is true, 99% of the time, you'd just rather have a spell to kill that creature instead of enchanting it, then spending another card to kill it and then gain some life and cards.
I mean... there's A LOT to happen for you to gain advantage while enchanting the other guy's dude.
1- he needs to have a dude with 4+ power.
2- you'll spend 3G and a card to do nothing
3- you'll need another card which will most likely cost at least 3 mana to kill that dude
in the end of it...
you just spent (at least) 6G and 2 cards to draw 4 cards, gain 4 life and kill a dude...
not the best deal in the world.
Role-player for Limited with some interesting casual potential. Alright for an Uncommon. Given there's a lot of playable high toughness creatures in this Limited format, I could see myself playing this from time to time (though probably not liking it overly much).
Well... yes.
but you'd not play this card in a Doran deck, would you?
Merely using that as an example to make a point. Consider how frequently we see Momentous Fall in a competitive deck, there's no point making this a Spike discussion. Both cards have their advantages in different deck type and neither is weaker/stronger than the other.
MF's surprise factor is definitely a plus over Fruit, but Fruit requires only toughness. Green also have more synergy with enchantments over instants. Being a permanent, Fruit is more vulnerable to enchantment removal and it doesn't kill the creature on its own. However, as Ink-Treader pointed out, you can play this on opponent's creature, creates political advantages in multi-player, which MF cannot.
I'll just say it now so it's on record, because the same thing happened with Rev and Courser: this card is insane, and it will be played extensively, possibly pushing it's way into Modern (but not Legacy). In G/B this is the nut with Murderous Cut/Doom Blade/Go for the Throat/Dismemeber, since you can enchant your opponent's creatures. Go ahead and nay-say now, but this effect has NOT been seen before if you look through card history. This is TOUGHNESS for X, not power... which especially in green is worth much more. All the other conditional green card draw has been based on power. Not to mention, you don't have to 2 for 1 if you use this on opponent's creatures and then kill them in order to draw cards and gain life. Oh, and Whisperwood is itself a sac creature than can draw 4 and gain 4 life at instant speed after being enchanted by this. Just so happens that B has great sac outlets, too. Go figure.
People freak out over the color of the rarity on the card instead of accurately evaluating effect. Treasure Cruise is a prime example. Don't be fooled by the uncommon status, as people were fooled (for a short while) by the common status of TC.
Fruit of the First Tree AND Grim Contest are unprecedented. Treat this as a brand new thing.
Fight mechanics always until now revolved around power, now its toughness.
Card draw for loosing a creature was practically always based on its power, now its toughness.
It's a bit awkward for Block Constructed that some of the powerful removal exiles instead of destroys. You can't plan to put this on your opponents' creatures if you plan to Abzan Charm or Utter End them, and you can't put them on your own if your opponent has those cards.
Thing is, in some decks, in some situations, this reads , Sorcery, Draw a crapload of cards. In most decks and most situations, it doesn't, but it will be played somewhere, sometimes.
but that a quite big issue.....
you'll spend 3G, 2 cards, something to sacrifice the caryatid to, or chumpblocking something with your mana dork... and for what? 3 life and 3 cards?
quite steep price....
of course, bolster is a thing and if you manage to target that caryatid with one of those, maybe it'll be worth it...
still a whole lotta trouble for some card advantage...
If I'm playing a 4 card "combo" I want more than +3 card advantage and 6 life or something.
Non-blue, non-black EDH decks will welcome this as another cost-effective way of drawing a boat-load of cards. And if they want to use into-library removal on it so be it, one less to target my god or general.
I don't see much use for this in other formats but it's solid for an uncommon and people will obviously be excited for another Momentous Fall, even if it lacks the surprise factor (on the other hand, you can lay it down and not have to leave mana open, so the surprise is not strictly superior).
I'll just say it now so it's on record, because the same thing happened with Rev and Courser: this card is insane, and it will be played extensively, possibly pushing it's way into Modern (but not Legacy). In G/B this is the nut with Murderous Cut/Doom Blade/Go for the Throat/Dismemeber, since you can enchant your opponent's creatures. Go ahead and nay-say now, but this effect has NOT been seen before if you look through card history. This is TOUGHNESS for X, not power... which especially in green is worth much more. All the other conditional green card draw has been based on power. Not to mention, you don't have to 2 for 1 if you use this on opponent's creatures and then kill them in order to draw cards and gain life. Oh, and Whisperwood is itself a sac creature than can draw 4 and gain 4 life at instant speed after being enchanted by this. Just so happens that B has great sac outlets, too. Go figure.
People freak out over the color of the rarity on the card instead of accurately evaluating effect. Treasure Cruise is a prime example. Don't be fooled by the uncommon status, as people were fooled (for a short while) by the common status of TC.
Spending 6 mana and 2 cards to draw 4-5 cards at most and gain 4-5 life seems like a bad trade.
I get how "crappy" this card is but I know for a fact it's going in my Karador EDH and my Treva EDH. They both have lots of big tokens and will love it for slightly different reasons.
There's a pot for every lid.
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Spoiler Editor3G Uncommon
Enchant Creature
When Enchanted Creature dies draw X cards and gain X life where X is that creatures toughness
not hyped.
In a sense its a better momentous fall because you aren't saccing the creature, you're losing it in its natural course. In many, many more senses, yeah, its a worse momentous fall, if the opponent can just keep your creature alive and ignore it somehow its a dead card and unlike fall which capitalized on fizzling spot removal on an already doomed creature, this is fizzled by spot removal in a 2-for-1.
If you're playing a deck featuring Doran, the Siege Tower and its ilk, their power tends to be lower than their toughness. In that case, Fruit is a better choice as card draw than MF.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Well... yes.
but you'd not play this card in a Doran deck, would you?
I said it's mostly a worse Momentous Fall, and it is...
there are, surely, a bunch of situations where you'd rather have this...
still, I don't see me playing this card anytime soon, except for limited where it can really shine, specially in sealed.
Golgari Scavenge
Choose one of these judge of creation:
Make Strionic Resonator shine!
You can not grasp the true form of Ashiok's attack!
even though this is true, 99% of the time, you'd just rather have a spell to kill that creature instead of enchanting it, then spending another card to kill it and then gain some life and cards.
I mean... there's A LOT to happen for you to gain advantage while enchanting the other guy's dude.
1- he needs to have a dude with 4+ power.
2- you'll spend 3G and a card to do nothing
3- you'll need another card which will most likely cost at least 3 mana to kill that dude
in the end of it...
you just spent (at least) 6G and 2 cards to draw 4 cards, gain 4 life and kill a dude...
not the best deal in the world.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Merely using that as an example to make a point. Consider how frequently we see Momentous Fall in a competitive deck, there's no point making this a Spike discussion. Both cards have their advantages in different deck type and neither is weaker/stronger than the other.
MF's surprise factor is definitely a plus over Fruit, but Fruit requires only toughness. Green also have more synergy with enchantments over instants. Being a permanent, Fruit is more vulnerable to enchantment removal and it doesn't kill the creature on its own. However, as Ink-Treader pointed out, you can play this on opponent's creature, creates political advantages in multi-player, which MF cannot.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
People freak out over the color of the rarity on the card instead of accurately evaluating effect. Treasure Cruise is a prime example. Don't be fooled by the uncommon status, as people were fooled (for a short while) by the common status of TC.
Fight mechanics always until now revolved around power, now its toughness.
Card draw for loosing a creature was practically always based on its power, now its toughness.
Sylvan Caryatid
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
but that a quite big issue.....
you'll spend 3G, 2 cards, something to sacrifice the caryatid to, or chumpblocking something with your mana dork... and for what? 3 life and 3 cards?
quite steep price....
of course, bolster is a thing and if you manage to target that caryatid with one of those, maybe it'll be worth it...
still a whole lotta trouble for some card advantage...
If I'm playing a 4 card "combo" I want more than +3 card advantage and 6 life or something.
I don't see much use for this in other formats but it's solid for an uncommon and people will obviously be excited for another Momentous Fall, even if it lacks the surprise factor (on the other hand, you can lay it down and not have to leave mana open, so the surprise is not strictly superior).
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Spending 6 mana and 2 cards to draw 4-5 cards at most and gain 4-5 life seems like a bad trade.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yeah I sure love 4 mana do nothings in limited formats based around board development.
There's a pot for every lid.