Seems very playable in vintage. The mana difference is hugely relevant, but this clocks much faster than YP, crushes YP head to head, and plays much better with a pile of mana rocks. If it doesn't make it I suspect the reason will be less 3 vs. 2 mana and more that Underground Sea+Volcanic Island decks don't want to add Tundras.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Wizards is so subtle when it comes to chase rares and tailoring the meta.
I personally disagree. This screams "Hey play some sort of Jeskai deck and this card". Unless your post was sarcasm, in which case disregard what I say.
Why do they keep making jeskai stronger and stronger ugh. I want to see a strong control card or something that will finally make Temur viable. This guy is absolutely ridiculous.
Jeskai tokens with a single trigger off of this guy? So ridiculous, nevermind the possibility of 3 or 4.
The only mark against this guy is tempo. Rabblemaster comes down, makes a dude and by the next turn is ready to win to start winning. This guy doesn't hit as hard and his tokens cannot swing on the turns you're making plays that benefit prowess, not to mention the tokens cannot tap for Red on convoke. Testing will show if this guy is suitable to replace Rabble. I'm not completely sold just yet, but no doubt this is a strong prowess card.
In Standard and Limited this guy will be crazy. However, in Modern it unfortunately runs into the issue that many 3 mana cards run into. It dies to Bolt. The Tempo loss is pretty bad if that happens.
I really hope that the -1 -1 doomwake ability we see on the U/B dragon is indicative of the the new 'sultai' mechanic we'll get in DTK because otherwise this is going to get insane
there's a handful of cards that are extremely good with it though. anything phyrexian mana, brave the elements, zealous persecution, etc.
And those are all better with Young Pyromancer in red decks. That leaves nonred white decks, which have few good phyrexian mana spells. Also, you still have to wait until turn 4 to cast it with Brave the Elements backup.
Well I concede that I said this was fake and I was wrong. That's nuts.
I'll never forget all those calling out the poster who spoiled Green Sun's Zenith back in the day because the story of a friend's friend was outrageous and the card was too bonkers to exist.
This should be yet another reason for more open-mindedness in the "RUMOR" Mill. No, we shouldn't dignify every claim/post. But come on, open your minds and realize many spoilers come from a "friend of a friend" or something similar.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
I'm beginning to think the only way to beat Ascendancy Tokens going forward is going to be on account of people who can't properly stack their triggers.
Well I concede that I said this was fake and I was wrong. That's nuts.
I'll never forget all those calling out the poster who spoiled Green Sun's Zenith back in the day because the story of a friend's friend was outrageous and the card was too bonkers to exist.
This should be yet another reason for more open-mindedness in the "RUMOR" Mill. No, we shouldn't dignify every claim/post. But come on, open your minds and realize many spoilers come from a "friend of a friend" or something similar.
This is an awful policy. This forum exists to disseminate verifiable information on unreleased cards. If we didn't have these standards it'd be pretty abysmal. In fact, in years gone by where rumor mill rules were more lax the forum was constantly spammed with fakes and unverifiable spoilers. I like to see the rumor mill where I don't have to constantly dig through fake cards.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Well I concede that I said this was fake and I was wrong. That's nuts.
I'll never forget all those calling out the poster who spoiled Green Sun's Zenith back in the day because the story of a friend's friend was outrageous and the card was too bonkers to exist.
This should be yet another reason for more open-mindedness in the "RUMOR" Mill. No, we shouldn't dignify every claim/post. But come on, open your minds and realize many spoilers come from a "friend of a friend" or something similar.
This is an awful policy. This forum exists to disseminate verifiable information on unreleased cards. If we didn't have these standards it'd be pretty abysmal. In fact, in years gone by where rumor mill rules were more lax the forum was constantly spammed with fakes and unverifiable spoilers. I like to see the rumor mill where I don't have to constantly dig through fake cards.
I'm curious what you think the word "rumor" means.
Maybe the forum should be renamed "The Place Where We Participate In Company Sanctioned Prereleased Card Discussion Mill."
I wonder if they're a little worried about this card now. At the time it was in development, Delver wasn't running rampant in multiple formats. I think a lot people could tell from the beginning that Young Pyromancer was a little nuts, but the true extent of it wasn't really seen until Khans and specifically Treasure Cruise. Now they're giving us access to Pyros 5 through 8. It might shift the Delver decks toward the slower Dig Through Time builds that some already favour. The Elemental tokens already take over games and the Monks are much more deadly. They're also potentially more resilient, given they're only one instant away from ducking Electrickery; two away from ducking Pyroclasm.
Speaking of the tokens, hopefully they print something else that makes them. People are going to need a lot of them. I've seen more people pull a Sorin, Solemn Visitor from a pack than his Vampire token. Even the emblem seems to pop up with more frequency. I think I saw maybe one or two Kiora, the Crashing Wave Kraken tokens in BNG. Thanks to Vanguard of Brimaz, there were plenty of Cat Soldiers. The fact that the token is keyworded is pretty important. If people use dice to represent these tokens - and they will - bad times will be had by people who forget or miss the prowess on them. I'm not sure that, flavourfully, the students needed prowess or that if they did they couldn't have been 0/1 prowesses without ruining the card competitively and creatively.
In any case, on a personal level, I hate this card. It's such an obvious cash grab. The power level of Khans was subtle enough that there were people on here who thought the only good cards in it were the fetches. You were able to preorder a lot of the cards for pretty reasonable prices. The power level in this set so far seems to be about as subtle as a prowess pumped swift kick to the jaw. I hate it when they use Mythic Rarity as a Spike tax. It seems like the fate of my wallet is to be reforged with a lot less money in it.
2 Dig Through Time
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 other cards to be decided - magma spray seems good mainboard
Will be my new deck. I can cut back on dig through times as I now have grand master who can give me card advantage - mentor and rabblemaster cause they are going to have a good synergy
I wonder if they're a little worried about this card now. At the time it was in development, Delver wasn't running rampant in multiple formats. I think a lot people could tell from the beginning that Young Pyromancer was a little nuts, but the true extent of it wasn't really seen until Khans and specifically Treasure Cruise. Now they're giving us access to Pyros 5 through 8. It might shift the Delver decks toward the slower Dig Through Time builds that some already favour. The Elemental tokens already take over games and the Monks are much more deadly. They're also potentially more resilient, given they're only one instant away from ducking Electrickery; two away from ducking Pyroclasm.
Speaking of the tokens, hopefully they print something else that makes them. People are going to need a lot of them. I've seen more people pull a Sorin, Solemn Visitor from a pack than his Vampire token. Even the emblem seems to pop up with more frequency. I think I saw maybe one or two Kiora, the Crashing Wave Kraken tokens in BNG. Thanks to Vanguard of Brimaz, there were plenty of Cat Soldiers. The fact that the token is keyworded is pretty important. If people use dice to represent these tokens - and they will - bad times will be had by people who forget or miss the prowess on them. I'm not sure that, flavourfully, the students needed prowess or that if they did they couldn't have been 0/1 prowesses without ruining the card competitively and creatively.
In any case, on a personal level, I hate this card. It's such an obvious cash grab. The power level of Khans was subtle enough that there were people on here who thought the only good cards in it were the fetches. You were able to preorder a lot of the cards for pretty reasonable prices. The power level in this set so far seems to be about as subtle as a prowess pumped swift kick to the jaw. I hate it when they use Mythic Rarity as a Spike tax. It seems like the fate of my wallet is to be reforged with a lot less money in it.
I don't think you could have packed a larger number of relevant points into this post. Across the board agreements with this.
This is the biggest lightning rod in the entire game of magic probably. If they have removal and mana to play it this card is in the graveyard. If it sticks it is the most disgusting thing ever. Glad it costs 3 and not 2 because at 2 it's the best creature ever printed at least in terms of fair magic as emrakul and griselbrand are pretty hard to top in terms of how much they wreck face.
Jeskai tokens in standard does indeed love this guy very, very, VERY much. Pretty ridiculous there. Make tokens that have overrun built in is pretty damn powerful.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
This is the biggest lightning rod in the entire game of magic probably. If they have removal and mana to play it this card is in the graveyard. If it sticks it is the most disgusting thing ever. Glad it costs 3 and not 2 because at 2 it's the best creature ever printed at least in terms of fair magic as emrakul and griselbrand are pretty hard to top in terms of how much they wreck face.
Jeskai tokens in standard does indeed love this guy very, very, VERY much. Pretty ridiculous there. Make tokens that have overrun built in is pretty damn powerful.
I don't think this guy is any more of an obvious target than Goblin Rabblemaster, and despite all the hate and preparation that went into hitting that bullseye, he continues to completely take over the game on a weekly basis. That said, this guy isn't quite as good a top deck as the Rabblemaster, and doesn't necessarily need to be dealt with immediately in the later game.
Can someone explain why cards like this (OP at Mythic) are considered cash grabs?
Don't most packs get open up by drafters?
So why is it relevant? Honestly curious about the economics.
It's because before Mythic Rarity was a thing...this card would have been simply another Rare card in the set. But with Mythic being a thing we now have Wizards essentially splitting Rare power level cards into two slots for mostly arbitrary reasons. Lots of Mythic Rare cards are HORRIBLE in Limited or are extremely weak in that format. Ugin's Nexus and The Chain Veil are basically useless in Limited. Maze's End is another card that's Mythic and also horrible in Limited. Lotus Cobra likely wasn't causing tables to be flipped over in rage. There are tons of weak Mythics in Limited and tons of bomb Rares and even Common/Uncommon cards.
Enter the Infinite and Jin-Gitaxias aren't doing anything in Limited. But those are Mythics because they are major story based cards, have potential for powerful Eternal combos and interactions, and are better off being Mythic so that they don't appear more often in Limited as useless cards. In some ways Wizards wants terrible cards that are storyline based or clearly built for Eternal formats at Mythic so as not to pollute Limited and waste a Rare slot that a Standard staple card could occupy.
If Pack Rat is a Rare then this card doesn't need to be Mythic to balance out Sealed and Draft. Monastery Mentor looks like it should be great in Standard/Block and probably good in Eternal formats. But it could have been a Rare just as easily. And this card looks to be a Standard killer and likely a card that will get tested in Eternal formats for a few months if not years looking for decks that can use it or be built around it. Wizards knows this and rather than making the card a Rare and therefore more often opened they made it a Mythic meaning people need to crack more packs to get them on the secondary markets or in their collections.
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My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
I personally disagree. This screams "Hey play some sort of Jeskai deck and this card". Unless your post was sarcasm, in which case disregard what I say.
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The only mark against this guy is tempo. Rabblemaster comes down, makes a dude and by the next turn is ready to win to start winning. This guy doesn't hit as hard and his tokens cannot swing on the turns you're making plays that benefit prowess, not to mention the tokens cannot tap for Red on convoke. Testing will show if this guy is suitable to replace Rabble. I'm not completely sold just yet, but no doubt this is a strong prowess card.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
And those are all better with Young Pyromancer in red decks. That leaves nonred white decks, which have few good phyrexian mana spells. Also, you still have to wait until turn 4 to cast it with Brave the Elements backup.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'll never forget all those calling out the poster who spoiled Green Sun's Zenith back in the day because the story of a friend's friend was outrageous and the card was too bonkers to exist.
This should be yet another reason for more open-mindedness in the "RUMOR" Mill. No, we shouldn't dignify every claim/post. But come on, open your minds and realize many spoilers come from a "friend of a friend" or something similar.
This is an awful policy. This forum exists to disseminate verifiable information on unreleased cards. If we didn't have these standards it'd be pretty abysmal. In fact, in years gone by where rumor mill rules were more lax the forum was constantly spammed with fakes and unverifiable spoilers. I like to see the rumor mill where I don't have to constantly dig through fake cards.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Great card
I'm curious what you think the word "rumor" means.
Maybe the forum should be renamed "The Place Where We Participate In Company Sanctioned Prereleased Card Discussion Mill."
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
Speaking of the tokens, hopefully they print something else that makes them. People are going to need a lot of them. I've seen more people pull a Sorin, Solemn Visitor from a pack than his Vampire token. Even the emblem seems to pop up with more frequency. I think I saw maybe one or two Kiora, the Crashing Wave Kraken tokens in BNG. Thanks to Vanguard of Brimaz, there were plenty of Cat Soldiers. The fact that the token is keyworded is pretty important. If people use dice to represent these tokens - and they will - bad times will be had by people who forget or miss the prowess on them. I'm not sure that, flavourfully, the students needed prowess or that if they did they couldn't have been 0/1 prowesses without ruining the card competitively and creatively.
In any case, on a personal level, I hate this card. It's such an obvious cash grab. The power level of Khans was subtle enough that there were people on here who thought the only good cards in it were the fetches. You were able to preorder a lot of the cards for pretty reasonable prices. The power level in this set so far seems to be about as subtle as a prowess pumped swift kick to the jaw. I hate it when they use Mythic Rarity as a Spike tax. It seems like the fate of my wallet is to be reforged with a lot less money in it.
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
2 Dig Through Time
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 other cards to be decided - magma spray seems good mainboard
Will be my new deck. I can cut back on dig through times as I now have grand master who can give me card advantage - mentor and rabblemaster cause they are going to have a good synergy
I don't think you could have packed a larger number of relevant points into this post. Across the board agreements with this.
Jeskai tokens in standard does indeed love this guy very, very, VERY much. Pretty ridiculous there. Make tokens that have overrun built in is pretty damn powerful.
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I don't think this guy is any more of an obvious target than Goblin Rabblemaster, and despite all the hate and preparation that went into hitting that bullseye, he continues to completely take over the game on a weekly basis. That said, this guy isn't quite as good a top deck as the Rabblemaster, and doesn't necessarily need to be dealt with immediately in the later game.
Don't most packs get open up by drafters?
So why is it relevant? Honestly curious about the economics.
It's because before Mythic Rarity was a thing...this card would have been simply another Rare card in the set. But with Mythic being a thing we now have Wizards essentially splitting Rare power level cards into two slots for mostly arbitrary reasons. Lots of Mythic Rare cards are HORRIBLE in Limited or are extremely weak in that format. Ugin's Nexus and The Chain Veil are basically useless in Limited. Maze's End is another card that's Mythic and also horrible in Limited. Lotus Cobra likely wasn't causing tables to be flipped over in rage. There are tons of weak Mythics in Limited and tons of bomb Rares and even Common/Uncommon cards.
Enter the Infinite and Jin-Gitaxias aren't doing anything in Limited. But those are Mythics because they are major story based cards, have potential for powerful Eternal combos and interactions, and are better off being Mythic so that they don't appear more often in Limited as useless cards. In some ways Wizards wants terrible cards that are storyline based or clearly built for Eternal formats at Mythic so as not to pollute Limited and waste a Rare slot that a Standard staple card could occupy.
If Pack Rat is a Rare then this card doesn't need to be Mythic to balance out Sealed and Draft. Monastery Mentor looks like it should be great in Standard/Block and probably good in Eternal formats. But it could have been a Rare just as easily. And this card looks to be a Standard killer and likely a card that will get tested in Eternal formats for a few months if not years looking for decks that can use it or be built around it. Wizards knows this and rather than making the card a Rare and therefore more often opened they made it a Mythic meaning people need to crack more packs to get them on the secondary markets or in their collections.
This may be the most powerful card in standard outside of delve spells. Its totally mythic and so busted with ascendancy.