These dragons are so...un-splashy. I played through Invasion. I played through Kamigawa. I played through Planar Chaos.
ALL OF THOSE dragons are more interesting than any of these. Art (*OMG* the art), Abilities, Uniqueness. I mean they're just so..generic?
These feel like they belong in a CORE set, hardly feel like 'OMG THE TRIUMPHANT RETURN OF DRAGONS!!" Is it really just me?
Nope, it's not just you.
Indeed. It's not that the Dragons are bad, as the ones we've seen are pretty decent and seemingly at least on the verge of playable in standard. However, the billing of the dragons invoked a feeling of Rith, The Awakener, Crosis, The Purger, or Dromar, The Banisher(Conversely, Teneb, The Harvester et al). And what they decided on instead is more in line with Flameblast Dragon or Two-Headed Dragon. The latter aren't bad cards, just underwhelming and not particularly interesting with very linear abilities. The former, while not stellar in every regard, still are unique entities with unique abilities.
I feel they dropped the ball significantly, and didn't do a whole lot to actually make any of the dragons seem unique. The abilities are just "meh". The ones we have seen are fine creatures, but frankly that's all they are. There is nothing particularly thought provoking that makes me squee in delight, or get a sense of their power. I feel they could have done something a bit more tantalizing with them.
That's a good point. One has to wonder if they're saving some of their dragon gas for Dragons of Tarkir. The dragons in this middle set need to coexist with Khans and with the 3rd set, so maybe it wouldn't make sense for these middle-set dragons to be high-power flying death machines. It would be a real shame if the dragons in Dragons of Tarkir were at the same power level as these.
I made an account to specifically point this out since I havent seen anyone else say it, but
If anyone has been playing a Scion of the Ur-Dragon EDH deck, they'll know that there are no dragons with hexproof up until the release of this one. A lot of players originally went to Quicksilver dragon to give their general a toolbox protection option, but this is better. Also in dragon tribal, you have the added benefit of using this as a boardwipe.
I really like this card, and the dragons in general. The "whenever a dragon attacks" is pretty great, because it stacks (not so relevant in standard, but in EDH), and between Hexproof and the "Destroy all non-dragons" board wipe, this card could make UB control a thing again (not arguing, UB control is bad in the format, which pains me as a lifetime control player).
Anders: Yeah, my entire idea is that the Dragons in FRF are consciously designed as harbingers of the Broods in DTK.
Just a whetting of the appetite, if you will.
I'm working on a longer post about How I think the mechanics are going to work, but Fate Reforged is when the Dragons are at their weakest, the Clans have figured out a way to fight back. Look at the Broodmothers, how good they are is directly proportional to the number of dragons you have in play. In FRF KTK KTK they won't be very strong, because you'll maybe get another dragon or two in the draft. In DTK DTK FRF there are likely more dragons available so they get better.
They said that some cards in FRF are not going to look very good in KTK FRF limited and will be much better with the release of the third set. This are the cards they mean. There's a reason why they aren't mythic, they've been deliberately nerfed, but in a way that you can probably over come. If you can draft 4-5 dragons in the first two DTK packs then a card like this knowing it can affect a quarter to a third of your creatures it looks a lot better.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like this to occur and validate you.
I somehow find it tragic when an attacking Traveling Philosopher gets blocked by another Traveling Philosopher, which normally results in two dead philosophers. Shouldn't they just sit aside and start discussing?
"This is really exciting, so much to find out about, so much to look forward to, I'm quite dizzy with anticipation . . . Or is it the wind? There really is a lot of that now, isn't there? And wow! Hey! What's this thing suddenly coming toward me very fast? Very, very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide-sounding name like . . . ow . . . ound . . . round . . . ground! That's it! That's a good name- ground! I wonder if it will be friends with me? Hello Ground!"
Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the Sprouting Phytohydra as it fell was Oh no, not again.
I probably should of been more specfic my deck is playing green only for the mauler (and gain life lands). I hate pearl lake, it is ashiok control instead.
The dragon is just like prognostic sphinx only has three power which has been way too slow for me in the past, just couldn't close the game before my opponents could finnish me off. It is just replacing the scry 3 with the ability to boardwipe tokens.
yeah but with a couple extra dragons, you could clear their side of the board before combat damage. I already want to make a grixis dragoon deck with utvara hellkite. To hell with control, I want a grixis smash deck.
I don't understand what you mean by the dragon isn't the clan. Dash is the Mardu ability for this set, and Bolster is Abzan. One of the concepts of Khans was how the clans each represent an attribute of the dragons. It is weird that they only would show that on some of the dragons.
Nothing represents ruthlessness more than removing something explicitly. "Delve" could show how even death is not enough to prevent you from being used as a dragon/the Sultai see fit.
Well no, Ruthlessness is a lack of compassion and empathy. You can show it be being deliberate, but you can also show it by being completely indiscriminate. How often do you see sharks described as Ruthless Killing/Eating Machines? Whether that's an accurate description of a shark or not, that is a reasonably common expression. I mean look at the flavour text.
No agenda, no backhandedness, no plots. Only pure and total death.
Doesn't that also sound like the description of a shark?
I believe that Delve is how the Sultai adapted to what they see as a ruthless indiscriminate killer. Hey this Dragon kills everything in it's way it doesn't matter if it's a threat or not, let's find a way to use our extensive number dead to our advantage.
I'm going to make this statement Raid is not a mechanic that reflects speed.
Look at the difference between Dash and Raid. Dash is all about the attack the bonus it gives is temporary sometimes even the attacker is temporary all it cares about is attacking and potentially using the element of surprise. Raid cares about attacking too, but the mechanic is not on the card that does the attack (with the potential exception of Bloodsoaked Champion) but in all cases it comes afterwards.
Dash is attacking as fast as you can because a)that's where you advantage is, and b it's a surprise attack VS attacking allows you to gain an advantage after the attack phase. You still want to attack but maybe not as fast as you can. if you have Mardu Warshrieker in your hand you don't necessarily want to just attack so you can play it you'd wait until you had a second cad that can work with it. So maybe you don't attack just yet. The haste enabler is Temur, there are four 'Mardu' creatures with Haste two have the drawback of having to attack every turn and Butcher requires a sacrifice. Only Ankle Shanker doesn't have a drawback. I wouldn't be surprised if Dash essentially came first and they decided to move it to FRF and adapt it into Raid.
Bolster's similar. It only cares about about the weakest creature and it just cares to make it bigger, Outlast the cards help themselves and there are potential bonuses to share for Outlasting. It's possible there are are cards that will give bonuses to cards with counters on them, but it's unlikely, they pretty much covered all the related except Regeneration
Sultai's probably a little unique in that it was a late addition in design. I don't know if there is a Proto-Delve mechanic out there so they went with something different, (Plus that would make three different cost reduction mechanics. Also look at Palace Siege, while Khans mode doesn't fuel Delve it does allow you to save something that you didn't want to go into the graveyard. The Sultai aren't quite so ruthless yet.
Flavourwise look at it this way. Abzan and Mardu learned Bolster and Dash from observing the dragons then adapt/improve them to Outlast and Raid Sultai didn't learn Delve from their Dragon they created Delve to take advantage of what the dragon was doing. He kills everything so lets use that against him and make the dead our weapons.
As for the Dragon isn't the clan. I mean it's just that the clan took general philosophy from the Dragon, but it's the clan's interpretation of the Dragon, Also the Clan is tri colour right now it's only just starting to explore that side of itself but the dragons are strictly dual colour
Not the best dragon in terms of one on one with the rest of allied coloured dragons, but definitely the best in gameplay that suits UB and Esper win con. The hexproof body is already a plus, dodges all kind of removal spells. Hornet Queen babies die to it. Dodges Elspeth too.
Come on Wizards. Would it really have been that hard to print a Dragon with Delve? I would even have been fine if its ability was each player milling if it had Delve.
* Abzan and Mardu have new mechanics, while the other 3 clans have the same as KTK ones. In DTK the keywords will be Dash and Bolster along side 3 new keywords for the Jeskai 2.0, the Sultai 2.0 and the Temur 2.0
* The old keywords are associated with the Khans and the new ones with the Dragons. Reason why the first group appears in KTK but not in DTK and vice versa.
* Fate Reforged is a middle set and thus have a mix of the two. Abzan and Mardu dragons have new keywords because the dragon's keywords appeared in this set. The other 3 dragons won't have any Delve (confirmed), Prowess and Ferocious in then.
* It appears there isn't a story justification for this. The Abzan and the Mardu seems to be as opposed to the dragons as the other 3 clans. But it could be a hint that those are the two clans that will surrender and betray the others leading to the victory of the other side in this timeline.
Might as well have called him "Anti-Elspeth Dragon". He sits through her board wipe mode and clears her tokens on his own. With this dude out you can actually completely ignore the Elspeth on the other side of the table and just attack your opponent, at least until she's about to ultimate.
I think this goes in the sideboard of UB Control, at least any version that isn't too heavy on Perilous Vault.
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Might as well have called him "Anti-Elspeth Dragon". He sits through her board wipe mode and clears her tokens on his own. With this dude out you can actually completely ignore the Elspeth on the other side of the table and just attack your opponent, at least until she's about to ultimate.
I think this goes in the sideboard of UB Control, at least any version that isn't too heavy on Perilous Vault.
I dont know about this. Im thinking more of a 1/2 spilt between pla and it. It really helps with a lot of the bad m/u's. Since b/u really struggles vs aggro/token decks. It does suck that its only 3 power but you could feel good about just slamming him down and possibly wiping the board.
And since crux of fate(?) may be a good new board wipe for us, the vault/pla combo may not be as good. Personally im very excited about a lot of the new cards that b/u has to work with.
If that's the case it would be utterly disheartening.
It does not give the flavor of the clans being based on aspects of the dragon. It merely presents their mechanics as a gimmick.
Clan mechanics should show up fairly often on dragon cards as well.
I can not call the dragon cycle a true cycle if only 2 of them have clan mechanics and the rest have random effects.
Yes it does, Mardu emulate a dragon called "Fury's storm" that key aspect is that it is a fast moving aggressive attacker and over a 1000 years they develop into a tribe of fast attacking raiders.
Abazhan emulate a dragon known as "the Eternal" who's as aspect is to make it's brood stronger when it attacks and over a 1000 years they develop into a tribe of warriors that will use any trick to outlast their enemies.
I also think we can sort of work out something else as well, I think Mardu and Abazhan are the primary dragon elimination clans, this is why there mechanics are more copies of the dragons aspects. where as Temur, Jesaki are more in harmony with the dragons which might explain why they are more closely copying there dragons mechanics already in FRF.
6 mana would be a lot if it was vulnerable, but Hexproof makes it a lot harder to kill and the 7 toughness makes it a beast defending, so the likely you'll get some value for its cost is so high I don't see it being as much of an issue. It also works awesomely in UB control since you can Crux of Fate as a sweeper that it dodges pretty much all the time (unless your opponent has a Dragon that outclasses this guy, which is unlikely unless it is a Monstrous Stormbreath Dragon, and that's why you have spot removal).
This card is not flashy, but it delivers for the deck that really wants it. I'd be surprised if this does not see any play in Standard.
Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
As far as these forums are concerned, WotC can never do anything good because:
Card that is new and probably good = "pushed"
Card that is new and probably bad = "EDH/casual fodder"
Card that is a reprint = "lazy"
Card that is a better version of an older card = "power creep"
Card that is a weaker version of an older card = "worthless"
Might as well have called him "Anti-Elspeth Dragon". He sits through her board wipe mode and clears her tokens on his own. With this dude out you can actually completely ignore the Elspeth on the other side of the table and just attack your opponent, at least until she's about to ultimate.
I think this goes in the sideboard of UB Control, at least any version that isn't too heavy on Perilous Vault.
With Crux of Fate, you can run him and Crux and he will survive.
Might as well have called him "Anti-Elspeth Dragon". He sits through her board wipe mode and clears her tokens on his own. With this dude out you can actually completely ignore the Elspeth on the other side of the table and just attack your opponent, at least until she's about to ultimate.
I think this goes in the sideboard of UB Control, at least any version that isn't too heavy on Perilous Vault.
With Crux of Fate, you can run him and Crux and he will survive.
I love how they're giving UB Control different sets of win-cons. There are Ashiok builds, PLA/Vault builds and Prognostic Sphinx builds, and Crux/Dragon will definitely be a new one. Good eye.
But it will also make Crux better against the deck, since your opponent can use Crux to only wipe this dragon. UB Dragon Control would have to be huge for people to start sideboarding Crux, but still, it's a two-edged sword. Very cool design indeed.
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Each attacking dragon is its own trigger. So yes, if 3 attacked after all 3 triggers resolved the opponent's creatures would be -3/-3. Assuming the translation is accurate.
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That's a good point. One has to wonder if they're saving some of their dragon gas for Dragons of Tarkir. The dragons in this middle set need to coexist with Khans and with the 3rd set, so maybe it wouldn't make sense for these middle-set dragons to be high-power flying death machines. It would be a real shame if the dragons in Dragons of Tarkir were at the same power level as these.
If anyone has been playing a Scion of the Ur-Dragon EDH deck, they'll know that there are no dragons with hexproof up until the release of this one. A lot of players originally went to Quicksilver dragon to give their general a toolbox protection option, but this is better. Also in dragon tribal, you have the added benefit of using this as a boardwipe.
Just a whetting of the appetite, if you will.
I'm working on a longer post about How I think the mechanics are going to work, but Fate Reforged is when the Dragons are at their weakest, the Clans have figured out a way to fight back. Look at the Broodmothers, how good they are is directly proportional to the number of dragons you have in play. In FRF KTK KTK they won't be very strong, because you'll maybe get another dragon or two in the draft. In DTK DTK FRF there are likely more dragons available so they get better.
They said that some cards in FRF are not going to look very good in KTK FRF limited and will be much better with the release of the third set. This are the cards they mean. There's a reason why they aren't mythic, they've been deliberately nerfed, but in a way that you can probably over come. If you can draft 4-5 dragons in the first two DTK packs then a card like this knowing it can affect a quarter to a third of your creatures it looks a lot better.
one point to you sir
also Xenograft
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
You mean in a Sultai deck? Sagu Mauler is better overall, but this would be a good sideboard option to mirror matches
The dragon is just like prognostic sphinx only has three power which has been way too slow for me in the past, just couldn't close the game before my opponents could finnish me off. It is just replacing the scry 3 with the ability to boardwipe tokens.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
You can't build a deck full of 5 drops.
Well no, Ruthlessness is a lack of compassion and empathy. You can show it be being deliberate, but you can also show it by being completely indiscriminate. How often do you see sharks described as Ruthless Killing/Eating Machines? Whether that's an accurate description of a shark or not, that is a reasonably common expression. I mean look at the flavour text.
Doesn't that also sound like the description of a shark?
I believe that Delve is how the Sultai adapted to what they see as a ruthless indiscriminate killer. Hey this Dragon kills everything in it's way it doesn't matter if it's a threat or not, let's find a way to use our extensive number dead to our advantage.
I'm going to make this statement Raid is not a mechanic that reflects speed.
Look at the difference between Dash and Raid. Dash is all about the attack the bonus it gives is temporary sometimes even the attacker is temporary all it cares about is attacking and potentially using the element of surprise. Raid cares about attacking too, but the mechanic is not on the card that does the attack (with the potential exception of Bloodsoaked Champion) but in all cases it comes afterwards.
Dash is attacking as fast as you can because a)that's where you advantage is, and b it's a surprise attack VS attacking allows you to gain an advantage after the attack phase. You still want to attack but maybe not as fast as you can. if you have Mardu Warshrieker in your hand you don't necessarily want to just attack so you can play it you'd wait until you had a second cad that can work with it. So maybe you don't attack just yet. The haste enabler is Temur, there are four 'Mardu' creatures with Haste two have the drawback of having to attack every turn and Butcher requires a sacrifice. Only Ankle Shanker doesn't have a drawback. I wouldn't be surprised if Dash essentially came first and they decided to move it to FRF and adapt it into Raid.
Bolster's similar. It only cares about about the weakest creature and it just cares to make it bigger, Outlast the cards help themselves and there are potential bonuses to share for Outlasting. It's possible there are are cards that will give bonuses to cards with counters on them, but it's unlikely, they pretty much covered all the related except Regeneration
Sultai's probably a little unique in that it was a late addition in design. I don't know if there is a Proto-Delve mechanic out there so they went with something different, (Plus that would make three different cost reduction mechanics. Also look at Palace Siege, while Khans mode doesn't fuel Delve it does allow you to save something that you didn't want to go into the graveyard. The Sultai aren't quite so ruthless yet.
Flavourwise look at it this way. Abzan and Mardu learned Bolster and Dash from observing the dragons then adapt/improve them to Outlast and Raid Sultai didn't learn Delve from their Dragon they created Delve to take advantage of what the dragon was doing. He kills everything so lets use that against him and make the dead our weapons.
As for the Dragon isn't the clan. I mean it's just that the clan took general philosophy from the Dragon, but it's the clan's interpretation of the Dragon, Also the Clan is tri colour right now it's only just starting to explore that side of itself but the dragons are strictly dual colour
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Doesn't mean they're playable.
Seems good against Hornet Queen and tokens.
* Abzan and Mardu have new mechanics, while the other 3 clans have the same as KTK ones. In DTK the keywords will be Dash and Bolster along side 3 new keywords for the Jeskai 2.0, the Sultai 2.0 and the Temur 2.0
* The old keywords are associated with the Khans and the new ones with the Dragons. Reason why the first group appears in KTK but not in DTK and vice versa.
* Fate Reforged is a middle set and thus have a mix of the two. Abzan and Mardu dragons have new keywords because the dragon's keywords appeared in this set. The other 3 dragons won't have any Delve (confirmed), Prowess and Ferocious in then.
* It appears there isn't a story justification for this. The Abzan and the Mardu seems to be as opposed to the dragons as the other 3 clans. But it could be a hint that those are the two clans that will surrender and betray the others leading to the victory of the other side in this timeline.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
I think this goes in the sideboard of UB Control, at least any version that isn't too heavy on Perilous Vault.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
I dont know about this. Im thinking more of a 1/2 spilt between pla and it. It really helps with a lot of the bad m/u's. Since b/u really struggles vs aggro/token decks. It does suck that its only 3 power but you could feel good about just slamming him down and possibly wiping the board.
And since crux of fate(?) may be a good new board wipe for us, the vault/pla combo may not be as good. Personally im very excited about a lot of the new cards that b/u has to work with.
Yes it does, Mardu emulate a dragon called "Fury's storm" that key aspect is that it is a fast moving aggressive attacker and over a 1000 years they develop into a tribe of fast attacking raiders.
Abazhan emulate a dragon known as "the Eternal" who's as aspect is to make it's brood stronger when it attacks and over a 1000 years they develop into a tribe of warriors that will use any trick to outlast their enemies.
I also think we can sort of work out something else as well, I think Mardu and Abazhan are the primary dragon elimination clans, this is why there mechanics are more copies of the dragons aspects. where as Temur, Jesaki are more in harmony with the dragons which might explain why they are more closely copying there dragons mechanics already in FRF.
This card is not flashy, but it delivers for the deck that really wants it. I'd be surprised if this does not see any play in Standard.
With Crux of Fate, you can run him and Crux and he will survive.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
But it will also make Crux better against the deck, since your opponent can use Crux to only wipe this dragon. UB Dragon Control would have to be huge for people to start sideboarding Crux, but still, it's a two-edged sword. Very cool design indeed.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'