Manifest is indeed a headbanger when it comes to tourneys... Judges will be on overtime... Will foresee widespread cheating or sleight of hands...
Players at high level tournaments should be bringing reminder cards specifically to avoid getting DQed. It's limited at FNM that seems like the problem.
From the mothership rules article (emphasis mine):
A few older cards turn a face-down creature face up. If you manifest an instant or sorcery card, and one of these older cards tries to turn it face up, the card is exiled instead.
I wonder why it doesn't just get sent to the graveyard?
Also, according to that same article, there are 2 other enchantments like Rageform in the set.
With the morph "reminder" cards it will solve most issues if players actual use them.
If you "dont" use them it would still be a good idea to "mark" the cards with morph compared to the ones with manifest.
***** will be all over the place, if we cant get players to use the actual morph reminder cards ... (most draft players used them so far, should have plenty of them anyway).
In standard, due to cost and colour, it's probably going to be Gurmag Swiftwing
I was just trying hard to think of cards that it works with, that can stand on their own. cards like chromanticore and akroma are impossible to hard cast
I'm starting to think judges at LSGs are going to require you to have more than enough separate morph and manifest overlays to play your own deck if you have both abilities in the deck, and not allow decks that have both but don't have the overlays (or some functional equivalent that is clearly marked) already prepared, just to keep the insanity down. If your LSG doesn't require that, you should bring as many morph and manifest overlays as you can even if you don't have that kind of deck, in order to use for your opponents to prevent shennanigans or forgetfulness. I'm even kinda afraid some pros will actually play Lens of Clarity just to help them watch for cheating against decks that use manifest. It's a terrible mechanic in terms of keeping cheating under control, especially when we had some recent cheating incidents in the game's news at pro level events.
Another problem with manifest I'm seeing is the potential for it to break their 'morph clash winnning 5 mana' rule. This would make manifestation noticeably better than morph in limited, unless they decide to end that rule for Fate Reforged, and make morphing much more unpredictable as well.
I think Soulflayer might be kinda OP, even if I love the idea behind the mechanic. I think they perhaps should not have put indestructible and hexproof on his options list.
But overall, I'm loving this set so far. Really glad prowess is back, since it gives me hope for getting blue and white prowess 1 drops (or at least blue) to make a prowess 1 drops deck with Monastery Swiftspear.
I can see them being able to do some really interesting things with dash, such as creatures that have a dash cost in different colors than their normal cost, or creatures with slightly higher dash costs than their normal cost, but with an ETB effect that would be fun to repeat that way.
Rageform is going to be annoying in limited. Sure, many time it will be a mere 2/2 double-strike for four mana. But sometimes it will hit a snowhorn rider and end-up a 5/5 double-strike that dominates the game. Like usual red cards, it's a maybe-I-do / maybe-I-don't. I don't like to lose to such high-variance random luck in limited.
Well there is plenty of removal in the set, either kill it if its "morphed" or kill it later.
The old rule doesnt really change, a morph with 5 mana open is still a threat.
This set looks great. Fun mechanics, smart design; after a little 6-month break there from Magic, I'm pumped about this set!
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Quote from Skullum »
that's not what happened at all. kamahl stabbed phage, akroma, and some old lady and they became korona. then korona got stabbed by her "prophets" and kamahl got drunk with a mutant centaur
As regards the manifest/morph cheating issue... I'll just carry 20 overlays around with me and smack those things right on top as soon as an opponent manifests or morphs.
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A mirror, a shield, a promise, a great distance, and a kind word-- five ways to avoid harm.
Question. If you can Manifest a Phyrexian Dreadnought when you flip it up you don't have to do the sacrifice right? Also any creature with ETB abilities doesn't trigger if it's manifested then flipped?
Question. If you can Manifest a Phyrexian Dreadnought when you flip it up you don't have to do the sacrifice right? Also any creature with ETB abilities doesn't trigger if it's manifested then flipped?
Whisperwood Elemental seems interesting, but I don't know how playable it'll be in Standard. There are a lot of other 5 drops that have a more significant impact on the board right away. Also, Bile Blight is a thing.
Delve being back promises to produce some more very Modern- and Legacy-playable cards. The Soulflayer has some great potential, and I'm curious to see what people come up with for it. Also, consider this: having a Theros god exiled with Soulflayer's Delve cost gives it indestructible. Imagine this card in a BR deck and exiling Mogis or Erebos and Prophetic Flamespeaker as part of the Delve cost. A BG or UB may find a way to give him hexproof, trample, and indestructible. And black has tons of creatures with lifelink. The deck would need more than just the Soulflayer as the win con, but if there are more good delve cards, it could be very viable.
Nice set of spoilers, really dig the new mechanics. I'm just really disappointed that manifest only lets you flip creatures. This was the perfect opportunity to give us a way to morph instants and sorceries and they blew it.
Other than that though, while I don't see anything I'll likely end up playing in Lazav or Saffi, there are some pretty awesome cards they've shown us. If we are getting a cycle of dragons, kinda hoping we see a UB one, something fun for Lazav. Maybe a GW one for Saffi too haha.
Whisperwood Elemental seems interesting, but I don't know how playable it'll be in Standard. There are a lot of other 5 drops that have a more significant impact on the board right away. Also, Bile Blight is a thing.
Delve being back promises to produce some more very Modern- and Legacy-playable cards. The Soulflayer has some great potential, and I'm curious to see what people come up with for it. Also, consider this: having a Theros god exiled with Soulflayer's Delve cost gives it indestructible. Imagine this card in a BR deck and exiling Mogis or Erebos and Prophetic Flamespeaker as part of the Delve cost. A BG or UB may find a way to give him hexproof, trample, and indestructible. And black has tons of creatures with lifelink. The deck would need more than just the Soulflayer as the win con, but if there are more good delve cards, it could be very viable.
Blile Blight doesn't work on morph cards since each is a diferent creature not a copy of each other
Whisperwood Elemental seems interesting, but I don't know how playable it'll be in Standard. There are a lot of other 5 drops that have a more significant impact on the board right away. Also, Bile Blight is a thing.
Delve being back promises to produce some more very Modern- and Legacy-playable cards. The Soulflayer has some great potential, and I'm curious to see what people come up with for it. Also, consider this: having a Theros god exiled with Soulflayer's Delve cost gives it indestructible. Imagine this card in a BR deck and exiling Mogis or Erebos and Prophetic Flamespeaker as part of the Delve cost. A BG or UB may find a way to give him hexproof, trample, and indestructible. And black has tons of creatures with lifelink. The deck would need more than just the Soulflayer as the win con, but if there are more good delve cards, it could be very viable.
Blile Blight doesn't work on morph cards since each is a diferent creature not a copy of each other
manifest will actually play very differently in older formats, and does a lot to explain why suspension field was printed as is. being able to blink a creature that was face down without morph can be incredibly powerful. ie:cloudshift my face down emrakul
manifest seems pretty awesome, i like that its Ugin-blue proto morph
now i wish Ugin could manifest cards, that'd be slick.
Cant wait to see the rest of the new dragon watermarks. Exciting!
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The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Players at high level tournaments should be bringing reminder cards specifically to avoid getting DQed. It's limited at FNM that seems like the problem.
Also, according to that same article, there are 2 other enchantments like Rageform in the set.
If you "dont" use them it would still be a good idea to "mark" the cards with morph compared to the ones with manifest.
***** will be all over the place, if we cant get players to use the actual morph reminder cards ... (most draft players used them so far, should have plenty of them anyway).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
I was just trying hard to think of cards that it works with, that can stand on their own. cards like chromanticore and akroma are impossible to hard cast
Another problem with manifest I'm seeing is the potential for it to break their 'morph clash winnning 5 mana' rule. This would make manifestation noticeably better than morph in limited, unless they decide to end that rule for Fate Reforged, and make morphing much more unpredictable as well.
I think Soulflayer might be kinda OP, even if I love the idea behind the mechanic. I think they perhaps should not have put indestructible and hexproof on his options list.
But overall, I'm loving this set so far. Really glad prowess is back, since it gives me hope for getting blue and white prowess 1 drops (or at least blue) to make a prowess 1 drops deck with Monastery Swiftspear.
I can see them being able to do some really interesting things with dash, such as creatures that have a dash cost in different colors than their normal cost, or creatures with slightly higher dash costs than their normal cost, but with an ETB effect that would be fun to repeat that way.
Well there is plenty of removal in the set, either kill it if its "morphed" or kill it later.
The old rule doesnt really change, a morph with 5 mana open is still a threat.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
This set looks great. Fun mechanics, smart design; after a little 6-month break there from Magic, I'm pumped about this set!
pantsAnimar EDH deck right now, if only for that sacrifice ability.Go ahead, play a wrath. I dare you. Just you wait and see what monstrosities I get.
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WB Amalia Benavides Aguirre
Correct, it was already on the battlefield.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
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Trade with me!! Always in search of cards!
Delve being back promises to produce some more very Modern- and Legacy-playable cards. The Soulflayer has some great potential, and I'm curious to see what people come up with for it. Also, consider this: having a Theros god exiled with Soulflayer's Delve cost gives it indestructible. Imagine this card in a BR deck and exiling Mogis or Erebos and Prophetic Flamespeaker as part of the Delve cost. A BG or UB may find a way to give him hexproof, trample, and indestructible. And black has tons of creatures with lifelink. The deck would need more than just the Soulflayer as the win con, but if there are more good delve cards, it could be very viable.
Other than that though, while I don't see anything I'll likely end up playing in Lazav or Saffi, there are some pretty awesome cards they've shown us. If we are getting a cycle of dragons, kinda hoping we see a UB one, something fun for Lazav. Maybe a GW one for Saffi too haha.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Blile Blight doesn't work on morph cards since each is a diferent creature not a copy of each other
The reason is morph simply has no name.
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👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
now i wish Ugin could manifest cards, that'd be slick.
Cant wait to see the rest of the new dragon watermarks. Exciting!
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Face-down cards don't share a name with each other, because they have no name to share.
So really your opponent is just playing Russian roulette with a single bear, hoping to hit something relevant.