Are people really unironically complaining about the reach? As if reach always made sense?
"Ohh, you can make webs in the forest canopy? I guess I'm screwed then as I can't fly over trees..."
This is a game where snakes carry warhammers for Chrissakes.
Uh first Nagas are not snakes, one of the reasons why Patron of the Orochi can't be offered nagas. I know dissapointing because under Hindu Mythology nagas are snake people.
Secondly never heard of a bird eating spider? Look it up they exist.
Reach makes sense with Archers because they shoot arrows and with spiders because they can "extrude" silk. Spiders can shoot silk to travers long distances, it makes sense in the magical world for them to be able to snare prey with it. Like spiderman. What doesn't make sense is why a large animal would be able to snare flying prey.
Thirdly flying creatures have to swoop down to attack you, when they do that is when cards like Raking Canopy become realistic. Difficult for dragons to come at you when they have to tear through a harsh canopy of thorns first.
You do realize of course that there are actual snakes in the game, right? And those snakes, like, say, River Boa, can carry a Loxodon Warhammer while being equipped with Lightning Greaves? That's what he was getting at.
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Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Uh first Nagas are not snakes, one of the reasons why Patron of the Orochi can't be offered nagas. I know dissapointing because under Hindu Mythology nagas are snake people.
Secondly never heard of a bird eating spider? Look it up they exist.
Reach makes sense with Archers because they shoot arrows and with spiders because they can "extrude" silk. Spiders can shoot silk to travers long distances, it makes sense in the magical world for them to be able to snare prey with it. Like spiderman. What doesn't make sense is why a large animal would be able to snare flying prey.
Thirdly flying creatures have to swoop down to attack you, when they do that is when cards like Raking Canopy become realistic. Difficult for dragons to come at you when they have to tear through a harsh canopy of thorns first.
Are we really having this stupid discussion? There are boatloads of armless snakes in the game, and spiders magically shooting dragons out of the air like Spider-Man is no less ridiculous than the mastodon having an Abzan archer's nest built onto it's back.
Please do not call nagas, in mtg, snakes because they are not.
Dude, like three people already said that nobody else is talking about Nagas. They were talking about actual snakes. Like River Boa: No arms. Can carry a warhammer. Is not a Naga.
My understanding of reach is that while it may be true that a flying creature can soar over the heads of common soldiers and the like, they still have to adjust their altitude to attack you which allows a creature such as a spider or an archer to block them.
As far as tribes like Nagas are concerned, they could have made them snakes similar to how Leonin are Cats and Ainok are Hounds, but the term Naga is well-known enough that they figured they could make it a standalone tribe similar to Minotaurs, Centaurs, Satyrs, and Merfolk. Viashino's a weird case that gets to ride on the grandfather clause unfortunately; they really should simply be Lizards.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
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You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
My understanding of reach is that while it may be true that a flying creature can soar over the heads of common soldiers and the like, they still have to adjust their altitude to attack you which allows a creature such as a spider or an archer to block them.
As far as tribes like Nagas are concerned, they could have made them snakes similar to how Leonin are Cats and Ainok are Hounds, but the term Naga is well-known enough that they figured they could make it a standalone tribe similar to Minotaurs, Centaurs, Satyrs, and Merfolk. Viashino's a weird case that gets to ride on the grandfather clause unfortunately; they really should simply be Lizards.
I can't imagine this will see any play while Theros is in standard. No ramp deck won't play Sylvan Caryatid and a 5/8 Hexproof is nice, but it can't attack, so you paid 7 mana for a 5/5 and a better blocker. Eh. The one thing this does well is make your non-threats into threats, potentially with haste so that you don't lose all your value to a single removal spell. ... Which Hornet Queen also does generally better until too. Maybe later, buddy.
I like how clean this mechanic is compared to Outlast though. It's also odd that the thing separating it from an oversized Satyr Grovedancer is the drawback of not being able to pick which creature you want to throw the buff on. I don't want my 1/1 to get bigger, I want to throw that buff on my Mystic of the Hidden Way. Eh. I can see the mechanic having some play to it.
Lower CMC cards also have the potential to provide interesting choices since the cards buff themselves if they're the only creature you control.
I keep seeing people say this is bad because of Hornet Queen, but surely a getting a 6/6 flying deathtoucher isn't bad. (Note, without some other buffs, one of the tokens should always be an available target.)
I think one has a better shot of getting it right by saying mastodons are so huge and tall that their trunks can reach those flyers. Rather than snorting water like a squirt gun. lol
I'm not sure if I want this ability to be real or not. The only reason I would like to believe this is a real card is so that Sultai gets a new ability outside of Delve and Jeskai gets a new ability other than prowess. If so, it'll be interesting to see what they've come up with.
FYI the original point of my post was to correct your misunderstanding of the creature types and the fact that reach can make sense in the real world. Simply stating out loud that reach is an unrealistic thing is wrong. Goliath birdeater is an actual spider in real life.
And it's not an orb weaver. The flavor of reach on spiders is specific to orb weavers. (Oh yeah, there are many different types of spiders.)
Also, again, why did it take until Juvenile Gloomwidow for even one spider in Magic to have actual venom?
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Lone Bolster creature enters the battlefield. Cloudshift
Double the +1/+1 counters.
Maybe this could be possible.
No, it isn't possible. Any counters would be lost because of exiling it.
And trying to cloudshift in response to the ability going on the stack doesn't work either because said ability will be countered because the card returning isn't the same one, the game sees them as two separate objects despite being the same card.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Also, again, why did it take until Juvenile Gloomwidow for even one spider in Magic to have actual venom?
Actually this isn't true. Most large spiders' bites are painful, but aren't as venomous as the small ones. Magic's spiders are so far reflective of that.
Lone Bolster creature enters the battlefield. Cloudshift
Double the +1/+1 counters.
Maybe this could be possible.
No, it isn't possible. Any counters would be lost because of exiling it.
And trying to cloudshift in response to the ability going on the stack doesn't work either because said ability will be countered because the card returning isn't the same one, the game sees them as two separate objects despite being the same card.
That would be the case if choosing happens when it goes on the stack. If the choosing happens during resolution like Duneblast, it'll work.
Also, again, why did it take until Juvenile Gloomwidow for even one spider in Magic to have actual venom?
Actually this isn't true. Most large spiders' bites are painful, but aren't as venomous as the small ones. Magic's spiders are so far reflective of that.
They're still mostly unplayable trash even in limited when CMC > 3, though. And this one is no different in that regard.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I keep seeing people say this is bad because of Hornet Queen, but surely a getting a 6/6 flying deathtoucher isn't bad. (Note, without some other buffs, one of the tokens should always be an available target.)
A second Hornet Queen would be better than making one of the tokens a 6/6.
Lone Bolster creature enters the battlefield. Cloudshift
Double the +1/+1 counters.
Maybe this could be possible.
No, it isn't possible. Any counters would be lost because of exiling it.
And trying to cloudshift in response to the ability going on the stack doesn't work either because said ability will be countered because the card returning isn't the same one, the game sees them as two separate objects despite being the same card.
And none of that stops Cloudshift in response to the trigger from working. It's not good, but it works.
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You do realize of course that there are actual snakes in the game, right? And those snakes, like, say, River Boa, can carry a Loxodon Warhammer while being equipped with Lightning Greaves? That's what he was getting at.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
Are we really having this stupid discussion? There are boatloads of armless snakes in the game, and spiders magically shooting dragons out of the air like Spider-Man is no less ridiculous than the mastodon having an Abzan archer's nest built onto it's back.
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Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
As far as tribes like Nagas are concerned, they could have made them snakes similar to how Leonin are Cats and Ainok are Hounds, but the term Naga is well-known enough that they figured they could make it a standalone tribe similar to Minotaurs, Centaurs, Satyrs, and Merfolk. Viashino's a weird case that gets to ride on the grandfather clause unfortunately; they really should simply be Lizards.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Let's hope that this doesn't end up like Outlast did with no constructed playables.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Then why don't Rakshasas get their own type?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Elephants : Making Mana Dorks become Monsters
I like how clean this mechanic is compared to Outlast though. It's also odd that the thing separating it from an oversized Satyr Grovedancer is the drawback of not being able to pick which creature you want to throw the buff on. I don't want my 1/1 to get bigger, I want to throw that buff on my Mystic of the Hidden Way. Eh. I can see the mechanic having some play to it.
Lower CMC cards also have the potential to provide interesting choices since the cards buff themselves if they're the only creature you control.
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I think one has a better shot of getting it right by saying mastodons are so huge and tall that their trunks can reach those flyers. Rather than snorting water like a squirt gun. lol
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
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Shoulda given it flying and called it dumbo
Maybe in the next Un set
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And it's not an orb weaver. The flavor of reach on spiders is specific to orb weavers. (Oh yeah, there are many different types of spiders.)
Also, again, why did it take until Juvenile Gloomwidow for even one spider in Magic to have actual venom?
On phasing:
Cloudshift
Double the +1/+1 counters.
Maybe this could be possible.
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
No, it isn't possible. Any counters would be lost because of exiling it.
And trying to cloudshift in response to the ability going on the stack doesn't work either because said ability will be countered because the card returning isn't the same one, the game sees them as two separate objects despite being the same card.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Actually this isn't true. Most large spiders' bites are painful, but aren't as venomous as the small ones. Magic's spiders are so far reflective of that.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
That would be the case if choosing happens when it goes on the stack. If the choosing happens during resolution like Duneblast, it'll work.
They're still mostly unplayable trash even in limited when CMC > 3, though. And this one is no different in that regard.
On phasing:
A second Hornet Queen would be better than making one of the tokens a 6/6.
And none of that stops Cloudshift in response to the trigger from working. It's not good, but it works.