I like the call to make it 2015 edition. It gives Wizards the flexibility that there could be a 2016 version if prices get out of hand. This deters some hoarding. Better some than none.
The reprints are to increase availability, not affordability.
The stated intent of Modern Masters was actually to increase accessibility, which directly means price.
Right now the only thing accomplishing that goal is Standard reprints (shocklands, fetchlands, Thoughtseize etc.). While most preconstructed products fail to make a positive impact due to card choice, lack of viable reprints or price Modern Masters ends up being an active detriment towards accessibility.
This due to strongly driving interest for the format while failing to reprint anywhere near enough cards, at reasonable enough prices, to make up for said interest.
Speaking as someone only interested in the format for itself, with no interest in the MM draft experience or WotC's bottom line, I'd rather they skip this product entirely than introduce it in this form.
YMMV.
Accessibility may mean to you affordability, but it doesnt mean that to everyone. I will use Goyf as an example. Pre MM you couldnt find Goyfs in trade binders or in many LGS for sale. Every now and again there might be a few on certain on line sites, but for the most part they were very hard to come by at any price. After MM came out to this day, I see goyfs in trade binders and most LGS I frequent have them in their cases. Almost every on-line site has them. Yeah they are expensive, but they are available.
Everyone knew when Wotc bumped Goyf, Bob and V.Clique to mythic, Wotcs goal was availability not affordability.
The reason wotc is selling these at $10 msrp has to be because it doesn't matter what the msrp is. Last year it was really disappointing that the msrp was $7 a pack, and nobody was able to pick up a box for msrp. I found 1 box I was able to snag from a shop for $200, and that guy will forever have my business. Never mind the fact I pulled a foil bob out of the first pack...
It was exciting, but the $10 a pack is more realistic. If there isn't Goyfs, bobs or Fetches, I don't see how any store will be able to gouge.
$10 a pack should be doable. I believe wizards is saying that should be msrp so that there isn't as many stores price gouging like with mm1.
I was stuck in a dilemma of whether I should buy the modern staples I need now, or if I should wait in case a MM reprint lowered their prices. This settles it for me. For every money card in this set there are some $10 junk packs, so this set can't possibly bring down prices enough for me to care. Are these sets actually intended to lower staple prices? It doesn't look like it at all.
Not once did anyone at Wizards ever say that Modern Masters was intended to bring prices down. It was originally intended to increase the supply of some cards from sets that predated the Zendikar player explosion and hence had smaller print runs. The problem is, instead of the non ambiguous term supply they described it as intending to increase availability. People incorrectly interpreted that as meaning that WotC wanted to reduce the price of those cards. The announcement article even used another ambiguous term to indicate price/value- desirability. Read http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218 and you can see what I'm talking about. It is all under the heading This sounds eerily familiar... They even point out (correctly) that the price of cards that drop should go back up long term.
Uuugh, $10 booster packs AGAIN? Dammit Wizards, did you not learn anything the first time around? This is a joke.
Actually they learned that the original set sold out very very quickly and that most shops were charging $12-15/pack and having no trouble getting it. They also learned that the set was good enough to spawn the largest GP of all time. The only people I heard complaining about prices are here on forums. In the shops I go to, everyone was scrambling to get packs and suddenly, shops which couldn't even get enough people to sanction modern on any given weekend had people scrambling to complete their modern decks. Now there is sanctioned modern every week. It isn't as big as the standard tournaments, but I still have to call that kind of change a huge success for the original product.
So is there any reasonable and grounded in fact and not speculation reason that people think MM increases the price of cards? Do not site current prices. There is 0 proof that the increase in price was anything but natural increase in demand/stores pushing the upper limit on what people will pay.
MM increased the local availability of modern playable cards for those w/o access to a shop that has a large selection of singles. Suddenly they were in trade binders and players that felt like they had no realistic hope of being able to compete in modern could trade for the cards (remember, almost all the prices went down short term, and the uncommons/commons tanked). Now, many of those people who wanted in but felt locked out by their inability to trade for what they wanted got a taste and as more and more people started competing for the same cards the supply dried up very quickly while demand was still increasing. The natural consequence of this is that prices increased. So yes, you certainly are correct that the cards being printed is not what causes those cards to go up. That said, there were some cards that spiked after the contents of modern masters were known due to the fact that they were NOT being printed. Most notable here are the Zendikar fetch lands. People are expecting the same kind of spike for rares that manage to dodge being reprinted in this set, but I don't see it. There isn't nearly as much room to grow for a lot of these cards (fetches at the time of MMA's release were actually underpriced at anything under $50), and the last 2 years have shown a few things that will help keep some of the price jumps in check (though not likely eliminate them entirely). 1) Cards from recent sets keep making it in the format. 2) They keep reprinting cards for the format. They are doing this slowly to be sure, but steadily, and with a doubling in the number of blocks per year, I expect that trickle to increase a bit. 3)This is the second modern masters, and they haven't ruled out doing more of them. In fact, appending a year to the name rather than call it Modern Masters 2 makes it feel even more likely that there will be more Modern Masters sets coming in the future.
The stated intent of Modern Masters was actually to increase accessibility, which directly means price.
Not really. People are clearly willing to pay about 500-1500$ for a modern deck. If more people were willing to pay more the prices of cards would go up, or vise verse. A limited print run at 10$ MSRP will not lower the price of modern decks much. 500-1500$ is still the balance point at which people entering and people selling is equal. MM2 will just allow more people to buy in at the acceptable price of 500-1500$, which means the format is more accessible.
As long as the demand for it stays high, competitive magic (in any format) will always be expensive.
As a side, I'm curious if they'll reprint Jace the Mind Sculptor or Umezuwa's Jitte even though they're banned in modern right now. Still could be a way to push cards out that are played in Legacy.
Not happening. The idea is that every card can be used in your modern deck.
I hope they put Bitterblossom on it though. By the time MM1 came out (which had a fairy archetype for drafting) Bitterblossom was banned. Now that it was unbanned it would be nice to get a reprint.
Edit: It definetly seems a 003 on Emrakul. Hoping for Conscription reprint.
As a side, I'm curious if they'll reprint Jace the Mind Sculptor or Umezuwa's Jitte even though they're banned in modern right now. Still could be a way to push cards out that are played in Legacy.
Not happening. The idea is that every card can be used in your modern deck.
I hope they put Bitterblossom on it though. By the time MM1 came out (which had a fairy archetype for drafting) Bitterblossom was banned. Now that it was unbanned it would be nice to get a reprint.
Hoping for Bitterblossom myself, but they could be planning to unban either of these cards instead of banning Treasure Cruise or Ascendancy...just saying it's a possibility...and just b/c a card is banned in Modern today doesn't mean it will be forever. That being said I get your point.
Keep in mind some of the Eldrazi stuff is speculated to be reprinted in Fate Reforged.
Whut? Speculated by whom? We are clearly staying on Tarkir for the next 2 sets. We might be headed to Zendikar next block since they have done so much story build up to support it this block that it would be a letdown to not get our epic showdown, but there are quite a few major plots in the multiverse right now, and we might be years away from seeing any eldrazi. I realize that this is pretty off topic for this thread, so please provide me a link to the thread where people are saying such things and I'll go argue with them there
People need to stop with the "higher price because of higher value reprints" crap. Secondary market prices should have ZERO impact on msrp for sealed products.
At that MSRP they can't add 0.25$ rares. Well they can, but they should not.
Anyway
Hope to see some nice reprints and artworks, goyf is always welcome.
MM1 usually had pretty satisfying packs. But every once in a while you end up opnening a Greater Gargadon or something like that. There's no way to completely avoid crap rares in the set.
However, there are pretty good uncommons, so you might end up happy anyway.
What a joke. Still limited and being larger than MM1 is incredibly easy as the print run for that was so damn small.
Yeah there are more goyfs available post MM1 can't deny that. But $200 for a single piece of cardboard is outrageous. If you're buying goyf for that price that's more than original dual lands, which are just as available as goyfs heck they might outnumber goyfs since goyf was printed twice in 2 vastly underprinted sets whereas revised, at the time of its release, was overprinted.
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I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
People need to stop with the "higher price because of higher value reprints" crap. Secondary market prices should have ZERO impact on msrp for sealed products.
Best post on the thread. Sadly, you'll get swarmed by the Wizards apologists and the "I can afford to pay $10+ for booster packs and spend $2000 on a deck if you can't don't play" people. There are a ton of them on this forum.
You were doing so good with reprints, Wizards. Why'd you screw it up and make the same mistake again? Why?
People need to stop with the "higher price because of higher value reprints" crap. Secondary market prices should have ZERO impact on msrp for sealed products.
Wizards makes a conscious effort not to disrupt the secondary market too much with any release; they got burned when they did it for the first and only time in Chronicles.
And honestly if the MSRP was $4 everyone would still be selling it at $10 anyway
People need to stop with the "higher price because of higher value reprints" crap. Secondary market prices should have ZERO impact on msrp for sealed products.
That is essentially it...albeit indirectly. They're printing cards that have limited availability and are thus typically higher priced. If they weren't caring about the secondary market then these cards would be $3.99 like every other standard pack...explain how I'm wrong here? Also they sold these at $7 last go around and as everybody knows the scraps left online are floating in the $15-$18 a pack range, and from other posters they were selling up to that at release. Why were they selling that high...because they had cards that were both limited accessibility and worth value in the secondary market. Likewise Wizards doesn't make money on the secondary market sales. I mean the secondary market does lead to them having more packs bought as people hope to score a big card to sell for profit etc (which usually doesn't work out over time, but when a card gets to $80-$200 a card, printing that card will simply cause more demand for packs to be bought up. So this go around they increase it to $10, they sell the packs for more to the stores, and they make extra money off it as well. It's good business. It makes perfect sense. To many people think Magic should have zero ties to corporate profitability but without corporate profitability the game wouldn't exist. If they print what we expect I'm sure the $10 a pack will be well worth the value on average...and if they sell for more than that...that's because people find the value is worth even more than WotC is charging.
Ill just watch youtube videos of people opening mm2 and at the same time imagining that it was I who opened it. I would rather give that 240$ to my mom and dad.
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Accessibility may mean to you affordability, but it doesnt mean that to everyone. I will use Goyf as an example. Pre MM you couldnt find Goyfs in trade binders or in many LGS for sale. Every now and again there might be a few on certain on line sites, but for the most part they were very hard to come by at any price. After MM came out to this day, I see goyfs in trade binders and most LGS I frequent have them in their cases. Almost every on-line site has them. Yeah they are expensive, but they are available.
Everyone knew when Wotc bumped Goyf, Bob and V.Clique to mythic, Wotcs goal was availability not affordability.
It was exciting, but the $10 a pack is more realistic. If there isn't Goyfs, bobs or Fetches, I don't see how any store will be able to gouge.
$10 a pack should be doable. I believe wizards is saying that should be msrp so that there isn't as many stores price gouging like with mm1.
Not once did anyone at Wizards ever say that Modern Masters was intended to bring prices down. It was originally intended to increase the supply of some cards from sets that predated the Zendikar player explosion and hence had smaller print runs. The problem is, instead of the non ambiguous term supply they described it as intending to increase availability. People incorrectly interpreted that as meaning that WotC wanted to reduce the price of those cards. The announcement article even used another ambiguous term to indicate price/value- desirability. Read http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218 and you can see what I'm talking about. It is all under the heading This sounds eerily familiar... They even point out (correctly) that the price of cards that drop should go back up long term.
Actually they learned that the original set sold out very very quickly and that most shops were charging $12-15/pack and having no trouble getting it. They also learned that the set was good enough to spawn the largest GP of all time. The only people I heard complaining about prices are here on forums. In the shops I go to, everyone was scrambling to get packs and suddenly, shops which couldn't even get enough people to sanction modern on any given weekend had people scrambling to complete their modern decks. Now there is sanctioned modern every week. It isn't as big as the standard tournaments, but I still have to call that kind of change a huge success for the original product.
MM increased the local availability of modern playable cards for those w/o access to a shop that has a large selection of singles. Suddenly they were in trade binders and players that felt like they had no realistic hope of being able to compete in modern could trade for the cards (remember, almost all the prices went down short term, and the uncommons/commons tanked). Now, many of those people who wanted in but felt locked out by their inability to trade for what they wanted got a taste and as more and more people started competing for the same cards the supply dried up very quickly while demand was still increasing. The natural consequence of this is that prices increased. So yes, you certainly are correct that the cards being printed is not what causes those cards to go up. That said, there were some cards that spiked after the contents of modern masters were known due to the fact that they were NOT being printed. Most notable here are the Zendikar fetch lands. People are expecting the same kind of spike for rares that manage to dodge being reprinted in this set, but I don't see it. There isn't nearly as much room to grow for a lot of these cards (fetches at the time of MMA's release were actually underpriced at anything under $50), and the last 2 years have shown a few things that will help keep some of the price jumps in check (though not likely eliminate them entirely). 1) Cards from recent sets keep making it in the format. 2) They keep reprinting cards for the format. They are doing this slowly to be sure, but steadily, and with a doubling in the number of blocks per year, I expect that trickle to increase a bit. 3)This is the second modern masters, and they haven't ruled out doing more of them. In fact, appending a year to the name rather than call it Modern Masters 2 makes it feel even more likely that there will be more Modern Masters sets coming in the future.
Not really. People are clearly willing to pay about 500-1500$ for a modern deck. If more people were willing to pay more the prices of cards would go up, or vise verse. A limited print run at 10$ MSRP will not lower the price of modern decks much. 500-1500$ is still the balance point at which people entering and people selling is equal. MM2 will just allow more people to buy in at the acceptable price of 500-1500$, which means the format is more accessible.
As long as the demand for it stays high, competitive magic (in any format) will always be expensive.
$6.99 on line and not redeemable.
$9.99 in paper.
Keep in mind some of the Eldrazi stuff is speculated to be reprinted in Fate Reforged.
Not happening. The idea is that every card can be used in your modern deck.
I hope they put Bitterblossom on it though. By the time MM1 came out (which had a fairy archetype for drafting) Bitterblossom was banned. Now that it was unbanned it would be nice to get a reprint.
Edit: It definetly seems a 003 on Emrakul. Hoping for Conscription reprint.
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Hoping for Bitterblossom myself, but they could be planning to unban either of these cards instead of banning Treasure Cruise or Ascendancy...just saying it's a possibility...and just b/c a card is banned in Modern today doesn't mean it will be forever. That being said I get your point.
Whut? Speculated by whom? We are clearly staying on Tarkir for the next 2 sets. We might be headed to Zendikar next block since they have done so much story build up to support it this block that it would be a letdown to not get our epic showdown, but there are quite a few major plots in the multiverse right now, and we might be years away from seeing any eldrazi. I realize that this is pretty off topic for this thread, so please provide me a link to the thread where people are saying such things and I'll go argue with them there
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MM1 usually had pretty satisfying packs. But every once in a while you end up opnening a Greater Gargadon or something like that. There's no way to completely avoid crap rares in the set.
However, there are pretty good uncommons, so you might end up happy anyway.
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Yeah there are more goyfs available post MM1 can't deny that. But $200 for a single piece of cardboard is outrageous. If you're buying goyf for that price that's more than original dual lands, which are just as available as goyfs heck they might outnumber goyfs since goyf was printed twice in 2 vastly underprinted sets whereas revised, at the time of its release, was overprinted.
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It's almost as if wizards looked at all the problems MM caused and went "Let's make things even worse the second time around!"
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Best post on the thread. Sadly, you'll get swarmed by the Wizards apologists and the "I can afford to pay $10+ for booster packs and spend $2000 on a deck if you can't don't play" people. There are a ton of them on this forum.
You were doing so good with reprints, Wizards. Why'd you screw it up and make the same mistake again? Why?
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Wizards makes a conscious effort not to disrupt the secondary market too much with any release; they got burned when they did it for the first and only time in Chronicles.
And honestly if the MSRP was $4 everyone would still be selling it at $10 anyway
[Emphasis Added] - Sealed on Day 2 makes sense given the expected turnout. Probably will be easier to manage for those assisting in running it.
That is essentially it...albeit indirectly. They're printing cards that have limited availability and are thus typically higher priced. If they weren't caring about the secondary market then these cards would be $3.99 like every other standard pack...explain how I'm wrong here? Also they sold these at $7 last go around and as everybody knows the scraps left online are floating in the $15-$18 a pack range, and from other posters they were selling up to that at release. Why were they selling that high...because they had cards that were both limited accessibility and worth value in the secondary market. Likewise Wizards doesn't make money on the secondary market sales. I mean the secondary market does lead to them having more packs bought as people hope to score a big card to sell for profit etc (which usually doesn't work out over time, but when a card gets to $80-$200 a card, printing that card will simply cause more demand for packs to be bought up. So this go around they increase it to $10, they sell the packs for more to the stores, and they make extra money off it as well. It's good business. It makes perfect sense. To many people think Magic should have zero ties to corporate profitability but without corporate profitability the game wouldn't exist. If they print what we expect I'm sure the $10 a pack will be well worth the value on average...and if they sell for more than that...that's because people find the value is worth even more than WotC is charging.
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