Magic players would have to complain the most out of any groups i've seen. Expect way too much from every set. If the expected value from packs exceeded or came too close to pack prices it would just drive prices up even further.
Lucky many don't collect sports cards, where you can spend $1000+ on a pack of 5-10 cards that could be worth hardly anything or a LOT.
To me the insulting part isn't the lack of money cards. There is a problem I would say when a significant numbers of rares are dirt cheap already, certainly. The thing about Modern Masters 1 is that many of the cards absolutely had inflated prices at the time, and Modern Masters drove said prices down and hard.
The real insult in the set is the significant number of cards that have been reprinted within the last year, many of which were reprinted in Standard. This has nothing to do with the value of the cards-there are plenty of Modern playables which are cheap that would be fine for the set, and could use a reprint for no other reason than to get copies into people's hand. Which is the point of Modern Masters. To compare, there is only a single common in Modern Masters which saw numerous reprints (Festering Goblin), and it was not at its time legal in standard. There are a plethora of commons/uncommons in MM15 that have just been reprinted. Not only is this egregious and unnecessary, but it is also insulting and counter to what is expected in Modern Masters products-printing cards that are difficult to reprint elsewhere and specifically in Standard.
The set is an insult to drafters, it's an insult to people who want to get into Modern from nearly all standpoints, and it's an insult to consumers of the product. There is no good reason to have 20-30 reprints of cards that have been reprinted within the last year (Many of which are in the last couple core sets) when you have the entire Modern pool to pull from. It wreaks of lazy development and a complete lack of thought.
So, I take it you're insulted I guess?
I'm still excited as a new player to modern, so I don't appreciate you speaking for me as a consumer. It's a chance for me to get some cards that would otherwise have proven much more difficult.
Which do you think would improve a deck more, 1 Noble Hierarch or a playset of Path to Exiles?
After looking through both modern masters, they have a similar number of cards that are playable in an eternal format. The only difference I see is that the first set got to hog all the formerly high value casual fodder due to being the first one. I mean casual fodder takes years of price creep unlike tournament cards that can go 10¢ to $50 in an hour.
I actually looked at the cards that have shown some number of top 8 results (Which is the only metric I have for seeing if it has seen any Modern play).
MMA had 39 commons/uncommons that one could consider some form of staple for play in Modern. MM15 has 30 cards with similar results at common/uncommon. Four or five which are the bouncelands, which see play in exactly one deck and pretty much will only ever see play in that one deck. Another 3 of which were reprinted in MMA (Frogmite, Electrolyze, Myr Enforcer), and one of which is still in standard (Darksteel Citadel).
The fact that it adds only 25 new staple-ish commons/uncommons to the pool is downright abysmal, particularly when 4-5 of said cards are only played in a single deck (Leaving about 20~ish cards that haven't been reprinted that are far closer to staples).
Then we get to what they decided to make room for: Cards which were recently reprinted within the last couple years. Shrivel, Plummet, Bloodthrone Vampire, Pakalla Wurm, Raise the Alarms, Arrest, Plagued Rasalka, Oblivion Ring, Wrap in Flames Air Servant, Water Servant, Sign in Blood, Fortify, Gnarlid Pack, Kitesail, Runed Servitor, Wayfarer's Bauble, Bone Splinters, and Evolving Wilds. That's 20 cards reprinted in recent standard sets or in Conspiracy. Over 10% of the commons/uncommons were just reprinted in recent years.
Finally there are 15 common/uncommon cards from MMA that show up again, which is just under 10%
Nearly 20% of the entire common/uncommon run is from cards that have recently been reprinted, a good many of which are currently in Standard, just reprinted in Conspiracy last year, or just rotated out of standard. That is egregious. That is a lot of space that could have been used for other cards. Where is Qasali Pridemage, for instance, when there is already some exalted in the set? It's not overly good for limited at all. What about one of the Soul Sisters, which would play nicely (but not break) the tokens theme? How about Memnite instead of literally anything else as it works well with the Artifact theme? Vault Skirge? Welding Jar? Inquisition of Kozilek? Zealous Persecution? Where's Wild Nacatl? How about Timely Reinforcements, which works with the tokens theme? Wall of Roots and Wall of Omens would also be nice for the set, as the former works well with the Eldrazi and the latter is just a fine limited card. What about Probe, which is the marque common Phyrexian mana card for blue? How about Kird Ape, which could seriously use a reprint in the near future? Spell Pierce seems like a glaring omission. Beast Within would be a good card for a reprint. I could contine listing dozens of cards that could seriously use a reprint.
Hell, it's not even that. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of cards that are in the Modern pool that have yet to be reprinted. I have a hard time swallowing the idea that they were forced into throwing in the random draft filler that goes into every other set. There are thousands of options available. Find something more interesting that the cards that have just gone in every core set to round out the draft format. The fun part about MM1 draft was that it was well put together from cards that simply didn't get reprinted for some reason or another. Out of the entire set, I believe there were about 2-3 commons/uncommons that saw any printings beyond specialty/box-set products. The clever decisions they made to answer draft situations was absolutely delightful, and a blast to play with. This just has all the makings of a slightly suped up Core set draft. And I'm sorry, I'm not going to pay a ton of money to draft what is effectively a core set.
To be blunt, MMA was not nearly as bad, and people who say it was haven't actually looked at the number. MM2 has 25% fewer staplish cards, a significant number of which I would barely call several different reprints (The bouncelands), and a large number of which were printed in MMA. The number of "new" reprints of staplish cards is nearly half that of MMA. Add on top of that that nearly 20% of the cardpool is cards that have recent reprints at that, and the argument falls apart.
The set is an utter failure. I have no idea what they were thinking. It looks like a very poor set from almost every way I look at it. And I usually have a high tolerance for this sort of thing. I was generally supportive of MMA when people didn't like it (And had no problem with the large number of generally unplayable commons/uncommons due to how interesting they made the draft format). I'm even somebody who was pretty defensive about Born of the Gods, which I still feel got a worse rap than it deserved (Although it was far from great). Given what Modern Masters was, and is supposed to be by its stated goals, however, I just can't defend this product. It costs way to much money for far too little on all regards. The draft format doesn't look particularly engaging, rewarding, or unique (As ramp into fatties vs tokens isn't much different than what we usually see), you stand almost no chance of opening anything at all regardless of pricepoint/rarity (As there are very few cards even remotely playable in Modern at the Common/Uncommon slot or monetary value), and the monetary value is obscenely top-heavy.
I gladly paid $45 for MMA drafts when they came out, and didn't open jack all. And still had some fun draft pools that went deep. Even at $30 I would find it difficult to justify drafting this set. It's just a somewhat stronger core set draft. Draft good stuff, beat face. Woo. Like I can do every year in the summer.
I have looked at the prices (over bloated ofcourse) for MM 2015 cards in SCG and found this out:
1. Out of the 15 Mythics there are 8 which command a price of $39.99 and over
2. Out of the 53 Rares there are 8 which command a price of $19.99 and over
3. Out of the 80 uncommons there are 12 which command a price of $0.99 and over
Not even gona go into the commons pile.
If I calculate this right in a box of MM2015 if you get 2 good Mythics out of the 3 which carry a price of $39.99 and 4 Rares which would be priced at $19.99 and then maybe get all the uncommons priced at $0.99 that would equal to around $172 in value. This would not include the probability of getting a good foil out of the 24 in the box.
Just my 2 cents. Don't really know what to make of this. Frankly, I'm tired of thinking.
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"Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight."
I have looked at the prices (over bloated ofcourse) for MM 2015 cards in SCG and found this out:
1. Out of the 15 Mythics there are 8 which command a price of $39.99 and over
2. Out of the 53 Rares there are 8 which command a price of $19.99 and over
3. Out of the 80 uncommons there are 12 which command a price of $0.99 and over
Not even gona go into the commons pile.
If I calculate this right in a box of MM2015 if you get 2 good Mythics out of the 3 which carry a price of $39.99 and 4 Rares which would be priced at $19.99 and then maybe get all the uncommons priced at $0.99 that would equal to around $172 in value. This would not include the probability of getting a good foil out of the 24 in the box.
Just my 2 cents. Don't really know what to make of this. Frankly, I'm tired of thinking.
If you look at it this way, 14 mythics are over $10 and 10 rares are over $10. Still doesn't look good though lol.
Modern is already a stupid, stagnant format. Wizards probably only created it so they could sell the Modern Masters product. This wouldn't have been as bad if MMA sets actually allowed players to get a lot of the core cards for cheap. But almost every card in this set is completely modern unplayable. There are a few that are very playable, and they distract people who suffer from "denominator bias." This set is mixed up and sloppy and exploitative. If you had a playset of every card in this set, you would still be no where near having the cards necessary to be a "modern master."
For these types of sets, they should allow a lot more player input for card selection. Obviously, they shouldn't do that for new blocks, because there should be an element of surprise there. But this kind of set is no-surprises, and should be all utility. The fact that it offers so little utility makes it bad. The fact that it's so expensive makes it egregious. I won't be buying any of it.
I also advocate boycotting GP Vegas to send Wizards a message.
I actually looked at the cards that have shown some number of top 8 results (Which is the only metric I have for seeing if it has seen any Modern play).
MMA had 39 commons/uncommons that one could consider some form of staple for play in Modern. MM15 has 30 cards with similar results at common/uncommon. Four or five which are the bouncelands, which see play in exactly one deck and pretty much will only ever see play in that one deck. Another 3 of which were reprinted in MMA (Frogmite, Electrolyze, Myr Enforcer), and one of which is still in standard (Darksteel Citadel).
The fact that it adds only 25 new staple-ish commons/uncommons to the pool is downright abysmal, particularly when 4-5 of said cards are only played in a single deck (Leaving about 20~ish cards that haven't been reprinted that are far closer to staples).
Then we get to what they decided to make room for: Cards which were recently reprinted within the last couple years. Shrivel, Plummet, Bloodthrone Vampire, Pakalla Wurm, Raise the Alarms, Arrest, Plagued Rasalka, Oblivion Ring, Wrap in Flames Air Servant, Water Servant, Sign in Blood, Fortify, Gnarlid Pack, Kitesail, Runed Servitor, Wayfarer's Bauble, Bone Splinters, and Evolving Wilds. That's 20 cards reprinted in recent standard sets or in Conspiracy. Over 10% of the commons/uncommons were just reprinted in recent years.
Finally there are 15 common/uncommon cards from MMA that show up again, which is just under 10%
Nearly 20% of the entire common/uncommon run is from cards that have recently been reprinted, a good many of which are currently in Standard, just reprinted in Conspiracy last year, or just rotated out of standard. That is egregious. That is a lot of space that could have been used for other cards. Where is Qasali Pridemage, for instance, when there is already some exalted in the set? It's not overly good for limited at all. What about one of the Soul Sisters, which would play nicely (but not break) the tokens theme? How about Memnite instead of literally anything else as it works well with the Artifact theme? Vault Skirge? Welding Jar? Inquisition of Kozilek? Zealous Persecution? Where's Wild Nacatl? How about Timely Reinforcements, which works with the tokens theme? Wall of Roots and Wall of Omens would also be nice for the set, as the former works well with the Eldrazi and the latter is just a fine limited card. What about Probe, which is the marque common Phyrexian mana card for blue? How about Kird Ape, which could seriously use a reprint in the near future? Spell Pierce seems like a glaring omission. Beast Within would be a good card for a reprint. I could contine listing dozens of cards that could seriously use a reprint.
Hell, it's not even that. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of cards that are in the Modern pool that have yet to be reprinted. I have a hard time swallowing the idea that they were forced into throwing in the random draft filler that goes into every other set. There are thousands of options available. Find something more interesting that the cards that have just gone in every core set to round out the draft format. The fun part about MM1 draft was that it was well put together from cards that simply didn't get reprinted for some reason or another. Out of the entire set, I believe there were about 2-3 commons/uncommons that saw any printings beyond specialty/box-set products. The clever decisions they made to answer draft situations was absolutely delightful, and a blast to play with. This just has all the makings of a slightly suped up Core set draft. And I'm sorry, I'm not going to pay a ton of money to draft what is effectively a core set.
To be blunt, MMA was not nearly as bad, and people who say it was haven't actually looked at the number. MM2 has 25% fewer staplish cards, a significant number of which I would barely call several different reprints (The bouncelands), and a large number of which were printed in MMA. The number of "new" reprints of staplish cards is nearly half that of MMA. Add on top of that that nearly 20% of the cardpool is cards that have recent reprints at that, and the argument falls apart.
The set is an utter failure. I have no idea what they were thinking. It looks like a very poor set from almost every way I look at it. And I usually have a high tolerance for this sort of thing. I was generally supportive of MMA when people didn't like it (And had no problem with the large number of generally unplayable commons/uncommons due to how interesting they made the draft format). I'm even somebody who was pretty defensive about Born of the Gods, which I still feel got a worse rap than it deserved (Although it was far from great). Given what Modern Masters was, and is supposed to be by its stated goals, however, I just can't defend this product. It costs way to much money for far too little on all regards. The draft format doesn't look particularly engaging, rewarding, or unique (As ramp into fatties vs tokens isn't much different than what we usually see), you stand almost no chance of opening anything at all regardless of pricepoint/rarity (As there are very few cards even remotely playable in Modern at the Common/Uncommon slot or monetary value), and the monetary value is obscenely top-heavy.
I gladly paid $45 for MMA drafts when they came out, and didn't open jack all. And still had some fun draft pools that went deep. Even at $30 I would find it difficult to justify drafting this set. It's just a somewhat stronger core set draft. Draft good stuff, beat face. Woo. Like I can do every year in the summer.
I think you pretty much nailed it here. I don't remember this much disappointment with the first MM. Am I misremembering?
On a more specific note, the spirit craft archetype looks terrible. You know what actually would have been cool though? Waiting until the next MM set for a spirit archetype so you could have some cool interplay between Innistrad and Kamigawa spirits.
I honestly don't remember a time when I was this disappointed in an MtG product. I'm definitely feeling some buyer's remorse.
I have looked at the prices (over bloated ofcourse) for MM 2015 cards in SCG and found this out:
1. Out of the 15 Mythics there are 8 which command a price of $39.99 and over
2. Out of the 53 Rares there are 8 which command a price of $19.99 and over
3. Out of the 80 uncommons there are 12 which command a price of $0.99 and over
Not even gona go into the commons pile.
If I calculate this right in a box of MM2015 if you get 2 good Mythics out of the 3 which carry a price of $39.99 and 4 Rares which would be priced at $19.99 and then maybe get all the uncommons priced at $0.99 that would equal to around $172 in value. This would not include the probability of getting a good foil out of the 24 in the box.
Just my 2 cents. Don't really know what to make of this. Frankly, I'm tired of thinking.
At $10 a pack, that would mean you got $172 of value out of a retail value of $240 for a net loss of around $68. For the most part, people like the mythics with the exception of comet storm. It is lack of good r/u/c that people are upset with. Considering that after those 8-9 good rares, the price of rares drops dramatically. So that 45 rares are worth less than $20 (someone else did an analysis and he found only 22 rares worth more than $2, leaving 31 rares worth less than $2 (58% of the rares). As you found, 68 of the uncommons are worth less than a $1. Of the commons, only about 6 out of the 101 commons are worth more than 50 cents. Based on this, if you don't open a good rare or mythic, you are very unlikely to open a pack with a good common or uncommon to make up for it. For $10 a pack, it seems very chancy. So, when you open that pack with a comet storm or chimeric mass, and you don't get remand, you are left with about $4 in cards. Considering the odds, it looks like you will open a lot more packs toward the $4 end than you will at the tarmogoyf end.
Personally, I think that people got excited when Wizards increased the price point and hinted at the return of the Eldrazi. I think people took that to mean that MM2 would be packed full of value because the price was increased by over 40%. If you increased the price that much, it would seem like you would at least have a 50/50 shot of pulling a rare worth $5 or more.
Yes, I am very for real. Artwork in this set, especially with the monk cards, looks very unappealing to me. Most of it looks childish...which also isn't completely out of whack, because it's also a game that kids play. Regardless, I don't like it.
Exactly, the estimated price did reflect what to expect from a pack and made getting better cards really rewarding. This new MM(2015) set does not give that feeling. And I have to wonder how the speculators are handling this? I mean FadeToBlack1004 who was defending this set and showing the pre-ordering data has disappeared, are all the speculators who were here now too busy trying to get rid of there holdings or something?
Yes, I am very for real. Artwork in this set, especially with the monk cards, looks very unappealing to me. Most of it looks childish...which also isn't completely out of whack, because it's also a game that kids play. Regardless, I don't like it.
I agree. The art has been getting consistently worse since Alara.
Another thing which bothers me is that Wizards seems to put a brightness filter over their cards. I first noticed this with Serra angel. Just compare the 9th edition art to M2014. The latter is much brighter. Now, looking at MM spoilers I almost got blinded by looking at Niv-Mizzet. Seriously, his red is so bright compared to the original. Same with Nobilis of war. Or compare the original Helium squirter vs the new one. Why is the new one so bright? Or if you look at Ghost Council. What is grey smoke at the bottom is now a glowing neon-teal fog.
Why do they brighten everything up this much? It looks unnatural and offensive to the eye.
I think you pretty much nailed it here. I don't remember this much disappointment with the first MM. Am I misremembering?
On a more specific note, the spirit craft archetype looks terrible. You know what actually would have been cool though? Waiting until the next MM set for a spirit archetype so you could have some cool interplay between Innistrad and Kamigawa spirits.
I honestly don't remember a time when I was this disappointed in an MtG product. I'm definitely feeling some buyer's remorse.
Kamigawa Spirits+ Innistrad spirit subtheme would be a very interesting archetype to build around if it came up. You could actually include a minor Arcane subtheme if desired, as it interacts with many of Kamigawa spirits positively. As of right now there only about 4-5 cards that actually do anything with the "subtheme" at all.
Last night while perusing the lists, I also realized that tokens+Convoke is the theme of G/W in the set. Which is one of the major archetypes from M15. When I talk about lazy development, copying the theme from the last core set almost exactly (Including using the same common enabler that was used) is just downright lazy. Having a 5-color theme that is almost completely unsupported and seems just thrown in randomly is lazy design. Having a ramp into big dudes with such little actual ramp is just bizarre. Having an artifact theme that is half MMA's with some metalcraft thrown in, without any cheap utility artifacts, is just lazy design. Having your only red theme being "Play cheap dudes, beat face" is completely lazy design.
The entire set just seems like it was thrown together with very little thought put into how it actually plays, and even gets to the point of copying the last core set's draft archetypes.
The more I look at it, the less I want to draft this set. Which is disheartening given how much fun I had with MMA, and how much fun this could be.
Personally, I think that people got excited when Wizards increased the price point and hinted at the return of the Eldrazi. I think people took that to mean that MM2 would be packed full of value because the price was increased by over 40%. If you increased the price that much, it would seem like you would at least have a 50/50 shot of pulling a rare worth $5 or more.
True, but the whole reason why they increased the MSRP was that everyone was selling packs of MM2013 for $10 instead of the MSRP of $7
I personally believe that Wizards did their best to try and balance the money cards vs the chaff to make sure Local Game Stores wouldn't increase the price of packs over the MSRP of $10
Just to put this thread to rest. I did a sealed pool generator for this set 52 times so far. 7 times I have made a profit from what I opened. 44 times I lost money. From the times I lost money I opened typically $25-50 in cards. There were about 6 times were I opened less then $15 for $60 worth of packs. That's not including sealed mark up will probably cost it $75. Opened tarm twice. Considered that lucky. I opened one foil mythic and two foil rares out of the 52 packs.
All Foil Comet Storms should be immediately torn to pieces upon opening.
Don't even know if I'll draft this set. You can do 3-4 normal drafts for what one of this set costs, and have better expected value/easier time finding 8 people to fire off the pod in the process.
I'm curious, I haven't been back to my LGS since the full spoiler (was a little too friendly with libations this weekend) and I don't really peruse other MTG websites/forums. What has been the reaction to the full set? Is it similar to what's been discussed here or are other groups more optimistic? Less? Are stores all sold out or are the owners keeping a straight face while they scream internally about all this inventory that isn't moving?
Or did everyone just go "meh" and start speculating about Origins?
Just to put this thread to rest. I did a sealed pool generator for this set 52 times so far. 7 times I have made a profit from what I opened. 44 times I lost money. From the times I lost money I opened typically $25-50 in cards. There were about 6 times were I opened less then $15 for $60 worth of packs. That's not including sealed mark up will probably cost it $75. Opened tarm twice. Considered that lucky. I opened one foil mythic and two foil rares out of the 52 packs.
And to add to that you have to remember that real world odds will be even less forgiving. Going on the notice that with the generator refreshes the drawing pool each time you do a simulation.
So as soon as a mythic or other good card has been pulled the rest of the box is dead weight.
Still really hoping that this whole thing is some sort of ploy and we find out that the set is something else entirely.
Exactly, the estimated price did reflect what to expect from a pack and made getting better cards really rewarding. This new MM(2015) set does not give that feeling. And I have to wonder how the speculators are handling this? I mean FadeToBlack1004 who was defending this set and showing the pre-ordering data has disappeared, are all the speculators who were here now too busy trying to get rid of there holdings or something?
I looked into it and fadetoblack1004 was banned for a week. I'm sure he'll be back. He may not get the instant return he was shooting for, but he'll still likely profit if he holds on to the boxes for a year or two. No matter what people are saying, people are still going to buy this product, even if it just gets sold at retail. The goyf/bob/clique lottery is too alluring at $10/pack.
All Foil Comet Storms should be immediately torn to pieces upon opening.
Don't even know if I'll draft this set. You can do 3-4 normal drafts for what one of this set costs, and have better expected value/easier time finding 8 people to fire off the pod in the process.
All Comet Storms should be put in an envelope and sent to Wizards with a note saying "please don't reprint this again". We could actually make a thing of it - what are we going to do with that junk anyway, might as well make a stunt out of it.
Lol I'm definitely down for this if I pull any in my 2 boxes. If I even open them now
Just to put this thread to rest. I did a sealed pool generator for this set 52 times so far. 7 times I have made a profit from what I opened. 44 times I lost money. From the times I lost money I opened typically $25-50 in cards. There were about 6 times were I opened less then $15 for $60 worth of packs. That's not including sealed mark up will probably cost it $75. Opened tarm twice. Considered that lucky. I opened one foil mythic and two foil rares out of the 52 packs.
And to add to that you have to remember that real world odds will be even less forgiving. Going on the notice that with the generator refreshes the drawing pool each time you do a simulation.
So as soon as a mythic or other good card has been pulled the rest of the box is dead weight.
Still really hoping that this whole thing is some sort of ploy and we find out that the set is something else entirely.
I am praying to God that the reason behind this set is to lower the price of the super expensive mythics and rares in anticipation of all the prices dropping after origins meaning that set would have to be full of staples in modern that they don't mind going into standard. The hardest one I see being reprinted then is serum visions as that would make blue control number one. Also the fetches should be reprinted in October. If this happens then wizards will be okay and all prices in modern will be down. If they don't do this then I can see a lot of people quitting modern.
I pronounce that #CometStormingWizardHQ is now officially a thing
Heh.
I'm half tempted to send my entire opened box back to Wizards with a note that says
"Dear Wizards,
Please replace this product. It is clearly defective.
It does not contain a single copy of Serum Visions, Inquisition of Kozilek, Aven Mindcensor, Path to Exile,
or any card less than Rare worth more than $2 aside from Remand,
which I can only conclude was a mistaken inclusion given the other cards present.
Please replace this with the actual print run that contains Modern-relevent cards at all rarities.
Thank you!"
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Melek, Izzet Paragon Oona, Queen of the Fae Bruna, Light of Alabaster Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Rhys the Redeemed Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord Sen Triplets The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Just to put this thread to rest. I did a sealed pool generator for this set 52 times so far. 7 times I have made a profit from what I opened. 44 times I lost money. From the times I lost money I opened typically $25-50 in cards. There were about 6 times were I opened less then $15 for $60 worth of packs. That's not including sealed mark up will probably cost it $75. Opened tarm twice. Considered that lucky. I opened one foil mythic and two foil rares out of the 52 packs.
And to add to that you have to remember that real world odds will be even less forgiving. Going on the notice that with the generator refreshes the drawing pool each time you do a simulation.
So as soon as a mythic or other good card has been pulled the rest of the box is dead weight.
Still really hoping that this whole thing is some sort of ploy and we find out that the set is something else entirely.
I am praying to God that the reason behind this set is to lower the price of the super expensive mythics and rares in anticipation of all the prices dropping after origins meaning that set would have to be full of staples in modern that they don't mind going into standard. The hardest one I see being reprinted then is serum visions as that would make blue control number one. Also the fetches should be reprinted in October. If this happens then wizards will be okay and all prices in modern will be down. If they don't do this then I can see a lot of people quitting modern.
I do not think people will quit, but modern will cool down again. This means that LGS's will have to continue using standard for the main draw. But then again I have noticed that at my LGS a lot of the more experience players have stopped playing standard and just go the the store to play modern or EDH, whether the store is hold a tournament or not.
But what really interests me is why put someone, who you are letting go from the MTG department, in charge of modern masters. That just invites bad results.
Damnation is not seeing print in a Standard environment, they have made that clear. It will only see reprint in a non standard set. Of course the high priced Judges Promo is their out and for that I hate the ****ers.
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Which do you think would improve a deck more, 1 Noble Hierarch or a playset of Path to Exiles?
Retired: WUEphara, God of the PolisWU blink | WGerrard CapashenW lifegain | WUB Ertai, the CorruptedWUB combo | WAvacyn, Angel of HopeW
mono-white controlangel tribalPauper: UBDimirKittyUB | RBG Deathcycle RBG
Modern: GWUEnchantressGWU | GWUTurbofogGWU
I actually looked at the cards that have shown some number of top 8 results (Which is the only metric I have for seeing if it has seen any Modern play).
MMA had 39 commons/uncommons that one could consider some form of staple for play in Modern. MM15 has 30 cards with similar results at common/uncommon. Four or five which are the bouncelands, which see play in exactly one deck and pretty much will only ever see play in that one deck. Another 3 of which were reprinted in MMA (Frogmite, Electrolyze, Myr Enforcer), and one of which is still in standard (Darksteel Citadel).
The fact that it adds only 25 new staple-ish commons/uncommons to the pool is downright abysmal, particularly when 4-5 of said cards are only played in a single deck (Leaving about 20~ish cards that haven't been reprinted that are far closer to staples).
Then we get to what they decided to make room for: Cards which were recently reprinted within the last couple years. Shrivel, Plummet, Bloodthrone Vampire, Pakalla Wurm, Raise the Alarms, Arrest, Plagued Rasalka, Oblivion Ring, Wrap in Flames Air Servant, Water Servant, Sign in Blood, Fortify, Gnarlid Pack, Kitesail, Runed Servitor, Wayfarer's Bauble, Bone Splinters, and Evolving Wilds. That's 20 cards reprinted in recent standard sets or in Conspiracy. Over 10% of the commons/uncommons were just reprinted in recent years.
Finally there are 15 common/uncommon cards from MMA that show up again, which is just under 10%
Nearly 20% of the entire common/uncommon run is from cards that have recently been reprinted, a good many of which are currently in Standard, just reprinted in Conspiracy last year, or just rotated out of standard. That is egregious. That is a lot of space that could have been used for other cards. Where is Qasali Pridemage, for instance, when there is already some exalted in the set? It's not overly good for limited at all. What about one of the Soul Sisters, which would play nicely (but not break) the tokens theme? How about Memnite instead of literally anything else as it works well with the Artifact theme? Vault Skirge? Welding Jar? Inquisition of Kozilek? Zealous Persecution? Where's Wild Nacatl? How about Timely Reinforcements, which works with the tokens theme? Wall of Roots and Wall of Omens would also be nice for the set, as the former works well with the Eldrazi and the latter is just a fine limited card. What about Probe, which is the marque common Phyrexian mana card for blue? How about Kird Ape, which could seriously use a reprint in the near future? Spell Pierce seems like a glaring omission. Beast Within would be a good card for a reprint. I could contine listing dozens of cards that could seriously use a reprint.
Hell, it's not even that. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of cards that are in the Modern pool that have yet to be reprinted. I have a hard time swallowing the idea that they were forced into throwing in the random draft filler that goes into every other set. There are thousands of options available. Find something more interesting that the cards that have just gone in every core set to round out the draft format. The fun part about MM1 draft was that it was well put together from cards that simply didn't get reprinted for some reason or another. Out of the entire set, I believe there were about 2-3 commons/uncommons that saw any printings beyond specialty/box-set products. The clever decisions they made to answer draft situations was absolutely delightful, and a blast to play with. This just has all the makings of a slightly suped up Core set draft. And I'm sorry, I'm not going to pay a ton of money to draft what is effectively a core set.
To be blunt, MMA was not nearly as bad, and people who say it was haven't actually looked at the number. MM2 has 25% fewer staplish cards, a significant number of which I would barely call several different reprints (The bouncelands), and a large number of which were printed in MMA. The number of "new" reprints of staplish cards is nearly half that of MMA. Add on top of that that nearly 20% of the cardpool is cards that have recent reprints at that, and the argument falls apart.
The set is an utter failure. I have no idea what they were thinking. It looks like a very poor set from almost every way I look at it. And I usually have a high tolerance for this sort of thing. I was generally supportive of MMA when people didn't like it (And had no problem with the large number of generally unplayable commons/uncommons due to how interesting they made the draft format). I'm even somebody who was pretty defensive about Born of the Gods, which I still feel got a worse rap than it deserved (Although it was far from great). Given what Modern Masters was, and is supposed to be by its stated goals, however, I just can't defend this product. It costs way to much money for far too little on all regards. The draft format doesn't look particularly engaging, rewarding, or unique (As ramp into fatties vs tokens isn't much different than what we usually see), you stand almost no chance of opening anything at all regardless of pricepoint/rarity (As there are very few cards even remotely playable in Modern at the Common/Uncommon slot or monetary value), and the monetary value is obscenely top-heavy.
I gladly paid $45 for MMA drafts when they came out, and didn't open jack all. And still had some fun draft pools that went deep. Even at $30 I would find it difficult to justify drafting this set. It's just a somewhat stronger core set draft. Draft good stuff, beat face. Woo. Like I can do every year in the summer.
1. Out of the 15 Mythics there are 8 which command a price of $39.99 and over
2. Out of the 53 Rares there are 8 which command a price of $19.99 and over
3. Out of the 80 uncommons there are 12 which command a price of $0.99 and over
Not even gona go into the commons pile.
If I calculate this right in a box of MM2015 if you get 2 good Mythics out of the 3 which carry a price of $39.99 and 4 Rares which would be priced at $19.99 and then maybe get all the uncommons priced at $0.99 that would equal to around $172 in value. This would not include the probability of getting a good foil out of the 24 in the box.
Just my 2 cents. Don't really know what to make of this. Frankly, I'm tired of thinking.
For these types of sets, they should allow a lot more player input for card selection. Obviously, they shouldn't do that for new blocks, because there should be an element of surprise there. But this kind of set is no-surprises, and should be all utility. The fact that it offers so little utility makes it bad. The fact that it's so expensive makes it egregious. I won't be buying any of it.
I also advocate boycotting GP Vegas to send Wizards a message.
I think you pretty much nailed it here. I don't remember this much disappointment with the first MM. Am I misremembering?
On a more specific note, the spirit craft archetype looks terrible. You know what actually would have been cool though? Waiting until the next MM set for a spirit archetype so you could have some cool interplay between Innistrad and Kamigawa spirits.
I honestly don't remember a time when I was this disappointed in an MtG product. I'm definitely feeling some buyer's remorse.
My 720 Peasant Cube
Personally, I think that people got excited when Wizards increased the price point and hinted at the return of the Eldrazi. I think people took that to mean that MM2 would be packed full of value because the price was increased by over 40%. If you increased the price that much, it would seem like you would at least have a 50/50 shot of pulling a rare worth $5 or more.
I agree. The art has been getting consistently worse since Alara.
Another thing which bothers me is that Wizards seems to put a brightness filter over their cards. I first noticed this with Serra angel. Just compare the 9th edition art to M2014. The latter is much brighter. Now, looking at MM spoilers I almost got blinded by looking at Niv-Mizzet. Seriously, his red is so bright compared to the original. Same with Nobilis of war. Or compare the original Helium squirter vs the new one. Why is the new one so bright? Or if you look at Ghost Council. What is grey smoke at the bottom is now a glowing neon-teal fog.
Why do they brighten everything up this much? It looks unnatural and offensive to the eye.
Kamigawa Spirits+ Innistrad spirit subtheme would be a very interesting archetype to build around if it came up. You could actually include a minor Arcane subtheme if desired, as it interacts with many of Kamigawa spirits positively. As of right now there only about 4-5 cards that actually do anything with the "subtheme" at all.
Last night while perusing the lists, I also realized that tokens+Convoke is the theme of G/W in the set. Which is one of the major archetypes from M15. When I talk about lazy development, copying the theme from the last core set almost exactly (Including using the same common enabler that was used) is just downright lazy. Having a 5-color theme that is almost completely unsupported and seems just thrown in randomly is lazy design. Having a ramp into big dudes with such little actual ramp is just bizarre. Having an artifact theme that is half MMA's with some metalcraft thrown in, without any cheap utility artifacts, is just lazy design. Having your only red theme being "Play cheap dudes, beat face" is completely lazy design.
The entire set just seems like it was thrown together with very little thought put into how it actually plays, and even gets to the point of copying the last core set's draft archetypes.
The more I look at it, the less I want to draft this set. Which is disheartening given how much fun I had with MMA, and how much fun this could be.
True, but the whole reason why they increased the MSRP was that everyone was selling packs of MM2013 for $10 instead of the MSRP of $7
I personally believe that Wizards did their best to try and balance the money cards vs the chaff to make sure Local Game Stores wouldn't increase the price of packs over the MSRP of $10
Don't even know if I'll draft this set. You can do 3-4 normal drafts for what one of this set costs, and have better expected value/easier time finding 8 people to fire off the pod in the process.
Or did everyone just go "meh" and start speculating about Origins?
UBU/B Tezz ControlUB
WTempered SteelW
EDH
BWTeysa, Orzhov ScionBW
RUJhoira of the GhituRU
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
And to add to that you have to remember that real world odds will be even less forgiving. Going on the notice that with the generator refreshes the drawing pool each time you do a simulation.
So as soon as a mythic or other good card has been pulled the rest of the box is dead weight.
Still really hoping that this whole thing is some sort of ploy and we find out that the set is something else entirely.
I looked into it and fadetoblack1004 was banned for a week. I'm sure he'll be back. He may not get the instant return he was shooting for, but he'll still likely profit if he holds on to the boxes for a year or two. No matter what people are saying, people are still going to buy this product, even if it just gets sold at retail. The goyf/bob/clique lottery is too alluring at $10/pack.
Lol I'm definitely down for this if I pull any in my 2 boxes. If I even open them now
I am praying to God that the reason behind this set is to lower the price of the super expensive mythics and rares in anticipation of all the prices dropping after origins meaning that set would have to be full of staples in modern that they don't mind going into standard. The hardest one I see being reprinted then is serum visions as that would make blue control number one. Also the fetches should be reprinted in October. If this happens then wizards will be okay and all prices in modern will be down. If they don't do this then I can see a lot of people quitting modern.
Heh.
I'm half tempted to send my entire opened box back to Wizards with a note that says
"Dear Wizards,
Please replace this product. It is clearly defective.
It does not contain a single copy of Serum Visions, Inquisition of Kozilek, Aven Mindcensor, Path to Exile,
or any card less than Rare worth more than $2 aside from Remand,
which I can only conclude was a mistaken inclusion given the other cards present.
Please replace this with the actual print run that contains Modern-relevent cards at all rarities.
Thank you!"
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I do not think people will quit, but modern will cool down again. This means that LGS's will have to continue using standard for the main draw. But then again I have noticed that at my LGS a lot of the more experience players have stopped playing standard and just go the the store to play modern or EDH, whether the store is hold a tournament or not.
But what really interests me is why put someone, who you are letting go from the MTG department, in charge of modern masters. That just invites bad results.