Which just goes to confirm what I was saying previously - those prices are not a real reflection of supply and demand. If a 200$ card goes for 100$ and no one is jumping on it that means the demand isn't as high as card shops pretend it to be. Yet if you're strong enough to set the price, what the actual demand is isn't important as long as it exists of course - you'll still rip off someone for it eventually through sheer market presence. I blame WotC. They ultimately control the product so they have the leverage to influence SCG and everyone else down the line.
There will always be people who pay full retail or a premium price for things they shouldn't. The point is, SCG doesn't set card prices nor do they control the entire secondary market.
Blaming speculators for card prices is akin to blaming communists for "moral decadence" in America in the 50's: it's looking for outsiders to blame for a "problem" that is rooted in the system
I say "problem" because it really isn't: Magic is a collectible card game so having cards being expensive is good. Of course there is a threshold at which point it becomes a problem but we aren't there yet.
The real problem is people who think that to play Modern you need 4 Tarmogoyfs because they netdeck rather than look to make their own builds
Which just goes to confirm what I was saying previously - those prices are not a real reflection of supply and demand. If a 200$ card goes for 100$ and no one is jumping on it that means the demand isn't as high as card shops pretend it to be. Yet if you're strong enough to set the price, what the actual demand is isn't important as long as it exists of course - you'll still rip off someone for it eventually through sheer market presence. I blame WotC. They ultimately control the product so they have the leverage to influence SCG and everyone else down the line.
There will always be people who pay full retail or a premium price for things they shouldn't. The point is, SCG doesn't set card prices nor do they control the entire secondary market.
Then how come everytime I go to an LGS and ask how they price their cards they always say by Starcitygames prices?
But you know what I don't really care all that much about speculators, whether they are individuals or a collective store, so long as they stay with the singles. Honestly when they start messing with the sealed merchandise is when I have a problem.
Blaming speculators for card prices is akin to blaming communists for "moral decadence" in America in the 50's: it's looking for outsiders to blame for a "problem" that is rooted in the system
I say "problem" because it really isn't: Magic is a collectible card game so having cards being expensive is good. Of course there is a threshold at which point it becomes a problem but we aren't there yet.
I hate to break it to you but speculators are a part of the system. Speculators are part of the life cycle of a economic bubble, they come in, take merchandise, and then they sell for increasingly higher prices by taking advantage of people desprite for said merchandise. This is what drives the economic bubble to its final life stage, people realize they are paying increasingly high amounts of money for cardboard (or a beenie baby) and then lose interest in the merchandise and the bubble bursts. This is when the speculators move on to the next bubble to explot.
And the creators of MTG wanted this to stay a game first and always, this is a fact, and one that will continue to exist in the future. And they saw what speculators would do to the game if they gained too much influence over the sealed product. If speculators wanna take termogoyfs and demand your first born as down payment, fine but I won't be paying and I will just look for something else to use. But when Speculators start taking the sealed product and doubling the prices then we have a problem.
Then how come everytime I go to an LGS and ask how they price their cards they always say by Starcitygames prices?
But you know what I don't really care all that much about speculators, whether they are individuals or a collective store, so long as they stay with the singles. Honestly when they start messing with the sealed merchandise I have a problem.
SCG prices mean that they are getting as much profit as possible and you get the advantage of saving on shipping and having it now. LGS prices tend to never be the best price out there. LGS have in their favor that if you need the card now they have it handy for you. They have the advantage that they throw events and you wont always have time to make that last second order.
When it comes to sealed product, there is a lot less of an impulse buy to rely on. People tend to plan and pre order. If every LGS tried getting SCG prices on sealed product they wouldnt make much for sales. When it comes to sealed product there are too many online stores that work on a quantity basis and LGS can rarely compete with that unless its something highly sought after aka limited quantities.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
If you have any large percentage of your net wealth invested into magic cards you are terrible with money.
How do you define large?
I don't know, enough where you actually think of your card collection as a serious wealth asset? If you plan on retiring on cardboard, you've already lost it.
Well, I agree with that, but I think you can invest some money in MTG, maybe around a 3-5% asset allocation. That's pretty minimal.
People who complain about "cardboard" as an investment are ignoring the collectible market. People spend millions on paintings which are nothing more than color on canvas. Is that really any different from cards? People spend tens of thousands on baseball cards and comic books. Is that really any different from Magic cards? I'm not saying that you should mortgage your house to invest in magic cards, but it is fairly easy for someone who has played for many years to accumulate a collection worth tens of thousands of dollars (just add up the value of a power 9 set plus a play set of duals and a few play sets of the higher priced Modern cards and you have a large bit of value there) without having invested more than a few thousand dollars over the years.
People who complain about "cardboard" as an investment are ignoring the collectible market. People spend millions on paintings which are nothing more than color on canvas. Is that really any different from cards? People spend tens of thousands on baseball cards and comic books. Is that really any different from Magic cards? I'm not saying that you should mortgage your house to invest in magic cards, but it is fairly easy for someone who has played for many years to accumulate a collection worth tens of thousands of dollars (just add up the value of a power 9 set plus a play set of duals and a few play sets of the higher priced Modern cards and you have a large bit of value there) without having invested more than a few thousand dollars over the years.
As someone with a modest comics collection, these are very, very different things. As already pointed out, paintings are often one-of-a-kind and/or hundreds of years old. Not really the same as mass produced paper products sold for a couple dollars.
But the biggest difference is that magic is a game and baseball cards and comic books are not. The value of a comic is almost solely derived from its rarity. Even in contemporary stuff, there's a pretty uniform price range for alternate cover art of popular series. The stories inside are often irrelevant unless it is the first reference of a new character or some timeless, pivotal storyline.
In magic, price is much more heavily dependant on playability. Magic is a game and so good cards are in more demand than bad cards, regardless of if the quantity available is identical.
So we are having prices driven up for popular cards, thus making them harder and more expensive to buy. Alternatively, no such boom will cause comics to spike and fall (though there are sometimes small spikes around relevant movie releases).
The "investment" in magic is a losing battle for most people because of the dependence on play performance. They do not under any circumstances hold value like baseball cards or comics, because if a new copy is printed of a magic card, prices of all versions fall (maybe not uniformly, but does fall). But if a new copy of an old baseball card or comic is released, it will not do anything to the price of the original, nor will it come near the value of the original. For example, a 9.8 graded copy of X-Men #1 recently sold for about half a million dollars, whereas you can buy a "Marvel Masterworks" collection of issues #1-10 reprinted in a single volume for about $10.
No one understands the market. SCG creates NO demand for cards themselves I guess one could argue legacy but there are tons of non SCG legacy tournaments each weekend all over the world. They aren't conspirators trying to raise profit margins way too high for themselves or anything. They are a business that is trying to make a profit selling cards for a TCG, same with all these other businesses. Overpriced? That's subjective. I have seen them priced below TCG or at TCG low before. I've seen them way higher before. They don't care if they sell 25 cards for a dollar apiece or 1 25 dollar card it's all the same. All they want is to move inventory. They markup some card that had a breakout performance at a tournament? You can't blame them when EVERYONE ELSE DOES THAT TOO. Their customer service is unparalleled and can't be matched I would wager. For example I ordered 1100 dollars in foreign cards prior to them going on sale on their site earlier this month. Later when they announced the sale and I sent them an email about it they gave me the difference in store credit free of charge. They certainly didn't have to do that they could have just as easily ignored my request for store credit but instead they reimbursed me for the difference. That speaks volumes about their service. The number of stores that would do something like that is very, very small indeed. They aren't a monopoly. As for some card stores quoting SCG price for their singles? Well it's their business they can do what they want with it. Anyone with a debit and/or credit card can order from any place they wish as long as said place is willing to ship to you so you won't get any pity from me.
This spoiler season will be odd just because some chase mythics will be previewed that we already know about unless that reputable source is wrong, which I doubt. Still looking forward to it.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
The most interesting part is the calculation of how many cards the GP is going to put into circulation. Turns out that its quite a lot. I expect a proportional price drop of many cards.
great link to a well written article, some very nice points and i'm hopeful they do come true
They don't have to control it, they just have to have a strong enough presence and a constant enough stream of customers, so that when they do spike the price of a card, it becomes the new "normal" price. Others align themselves with it because it means more profits down the line.
Imagine the reverse situation. If SCG set the new price for Tarmogoyfs at 100$ on their website, how long would the rest keep it at 200?
Never, because SCG would immediately sell out and the market price is still $200.
I have neither the skill to correctly and accurately analyze this set in the context of current and future formats after 12 hours of exposure, nor the hubris to delude myself into believing that I do.
So if I bought 3 boxes is there still a low chance for me to pull Goyf?
Your chance of opening a Goyf in any given pack is 1/121 (ignoring foils for the sake of convenience). Your chance of not opening a Goyf in three boxes is (120/121)^72 which is about 55%. Therefore your chances of opening at least one Tarmogoyf in three boxes is around about 45%.
Of course, a Grand Prix wouldn’t be a Grand Prix without the chance to acquire some sweet swag, and at Grand Prix Charlotte, attendees will have a number of opportunities to get their hands on sleeves, deck boxes, collectable pins and playmats all featuring…
Well, our friends at WOTC won’t let me announce that until May 1st… so I’ll just say that it’s a fan-favorite returning in Modern Masters II, and leave it at that for now!
Really really hoping for key Mill cards and tribal cards, particularly Glimpse the Unthinkable and Adaptive Automaton will be in MM2 for more casual players, as those can be hard to get your hands on. Plus Adaptive Automaton would enable many different tribal strategies in MM2 limited.
haha me too! I love mill and would love to see the deck not be so dang expensive to piece together.
So if I bought 3 boxes is there still a low chance for me to pull Goyf?
Your chance of opening a Goyf in any given pack is 1/121 (ignoring foils for the sake of convenience). Your chance of not opening a Goyf in three boxes is (120/121)^72 which is about 55%. Therefore your chances of opening at least one Tarmogoyf in three boxes is around about 45%.
For the record, I opened three boxes of MM1 and saw no Goyf, no Bob, no Kiki and no Elspeth. Saw a lot of Kamigawa Dragons though.
But they were good boxes anyway. Modern Masters has the power to make you happy with the commons and uncommons already.
Really really hoping for key Mill cards and tribal cards, particularly Glimpse the Unthinkable
Mill is a little problematic in Limited. Hopefully they'll sacrifice a completely optimal Limited environment for reprints of sought-after cards, but that seems a little unlikely.
Really really hoping for key Mill cards and tribal cards, particularly Glimpse the Unthinkable
Mill is a little problematic in Limited. Hopefully they'll sacrifice a completely optimal Limited environment for reprints of sought-after cards, but that seems a little unlikely.
No thanks. MM1 was one of my best drafting experiances in the game, I want the optimal limited format. Ive played since tempest and besides Innistrad, MM1 is my favorite
Elesh is still missing in the spoiler and Fulminator is still mythic. Given how fast and regular the spoiler page is usually updated, I'm starting to wonder if the mods know something we don't. If it's jusy sloppiness, it's out of character for this site. Wish they'd either correct it or break silence.
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
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We knew it because of the set art, but Etched Champion now confirmed, although for some reason the gallery isn't using the new card images.
There will always be people who pay full retail or a premium price for things they shouldn't. The point is, SCG doesn't set card prices nor do they control the entire secondary market.
I say "problem" because it really isn't: Magic is a collectible card game so having cards being expensive is good. Of course there is a threshold at which point it becomes a problem but we aren't there yet.
The real problem is people who think that to play Modern you need 4 Tarmogoyfs because they netdeck rather than look to make their own builds
Then how come everytime I go to an LGS and ask how they price their cards they always say by Starcitygames prices?
But you know what I don't really care all that much about speculators, whether they are individuals or a collective store, so long as they stay with the singles. Honestly when they start messing with the sealed merchandise is when I have a problem.
Edit:
I hate to break it to you but speculators are a part of the system. Speculators are part of the life cycle of a economic bubble, they come in, take merchandise, and then they sell for increasingly higher prices by taking advantage of people desprite for said merchandise. This is what drives the economic bubble to its final life stage, people realize they are paying increasingly high amounts of money for cardboard (or a beenie baby) and then lose interest in the merchandise and the bubble bursts. This is when the speculators move on to the next bubble to explot.
And the creators of MTG wanted this to stay a game first and always, this is a fact, and one that will continue to exist in the future. And they saw what speculators would do to the game if they gained too much influence over the sealed product. If speculators wanna take termogoyfs and demand your first born as down payment, fine but I won't be paying and I will just look for something else to use. But when Speculators start taking the sealed product and doubling the prices then we have a problem.
SCG prices mean that they are getting as much profit as possible and you get the advantage of saving on shipping and having it now. LGS prices tend to never be the best price out there. LGS have in their favor that if you need the card now they have it handy for you. They have the advantage that they throw events and you wont always have time to make that last second order.
When it comes to sealed product, there is a lot less of an impulse buy to rely on. People tend to plan and pre order. If every LGS tried getting SCG prices on sealed product they wouldnt make much for sales. When it comes to sealed product there are too many online stores that work on a quantity basis and LGS can rarely compete with that unless its something highly sought after aka limited quantities.
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[Modern] Allies
Well, I agree with that, but I think you can invest some money in MTG, maybe around a 3-5% asset allocation. That's pretty minimal.
Yes
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/announcing-modern-masters-2015-edition-2014-12-08
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
should be next monday
As someone with a modest comics collection, these are very, very different things. As already pointed out, paintings are often one-of-a-kind and/or hundreds of years old. Not really the same as mass produced paper products sold for a couple dollars.
But the biggest difference is that magic is a game and baseball cards and comic books are not. The value of a comic is almost solely derived from its rarity. Even in contemporary stuff, there's a pretty uniform price range for alternate cover art of popular series. The stories inside are often irrelevant unless it is the first reference of a new character or some timeless, pivotal storyline.
In magic, price is much more heavily dependant on playability. Magic is a game and so good cards are in more demand than bad cards, regardless of if the quantity available is identical.
So we are having prices driven up for popular cards, thus making them harder and more expensive to buy. Alternatively, no such boom will cause comics to spike and fall (though there are sometimes small spikes around relevant movie releases).
The "investment" in magic is a losing battle for most people because of the dependence on play performance. They do not under any circumstances hold value like baseball cards or comics, because if a new copy is printed of a magic card, prices of all versions fall (maybe not uniformly, but does fall). But if a new copy of an old baseball card or comic is released, it will not do anything to the price of the original, nor will it come near the value of the original. For example, a 9.8 graded copy of X-Men #1 recently sold for about half a million dollars, whereas you can buy a "Marvel Masterworks" collection of issues #1-10 reprinted in a single volume for about $10.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
This spoiler season will be odd just because some chase mythics will be previewed that we already know about unless that reputable source is wrong, which I doubt. Still looking forward to it.
Currently Playing:
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great link to a well written article, some very nice points and i'm hopeful they do come true
Never, because SCG would immediately sell out and the market price is still $200.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Everyone should learn from this
Exactly what it did with the Innistrad DFCs. The cards are front face up in the graveyard, so Goyf won't see the PW type.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
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Your chance of opening a Goyf in any given pack is 1/121 (ignoring foils for the sake of convenience). Your chance of not opening a Goyf in three boxes is (120/121)^72 which is about 55%. Therefore your chances of opening at least one Tarmogoyf in three boxes is around about 45%.
For the record, I opened three boxes of MM1 and saw no Goyf, no Bob, no Kiki and no Elspeth. Saw a lot of Kamigawa Dragons though.
But they were good boxes anyway. Modern Masters has the power to make you happy with the commons and uncommons already.
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
Mill is a little problematic in Limited. Hopefully they'll sacrifice a completely optimal Limited environment for reprints of sought-after cards, but that seems a little unlikely.
No thanks. MM1 was one of my best drafting experiances in the game, I want the optimal limited format. Ive played since tempest and besides Innistrad, MM1 is my favorite
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Ezuri
Captain Sisay (In work)
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'