[/quote] When most cards are under $10, the game is, yes, competitive, but also boring. It's the diversity of decks and strategies that makes MTG very interesting, and without higher prices for better material, that diversity would be stripped away and most people would be playing whatever is commonly accepted as the best deck. Speculators/Investors, collectors and players all need to be given consideration when building sets, issuing reprints, stuff like that. MTG isn't a game, it's basically a small economy made up of these three classes of individuals, and if you cut any one group out, the game will begin to fail.
Failure to understand that MTG is so much more than just a game is dangerous.[/quote]
I have to disagree with you. I have a full competetive Burn deck, as do several of my friends. when it is considered the best deck, we don't play it as much because the game gets boring, the last time Burn gut huge, I switched to a homebrew Tron and did just fine. Collectors need to bve acknowledged, trading valuable cards is part of the game and can be fun, but screw the investors/speculators. a playset or 2 of all shocks is fine, but there are guys around me who have 10 playsets of each shock, that is the kind of person who is a problem and they will kill the game if left unchecked. just look at Legacy, it is dying slowly because a handful of people over a decade ago were afraid to lose money playing a game. and even if you are one who says Legacy is not dying, how about Vintage? did protecting the value of the speculators stockpiles do the game itself any good?
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Modern Masters was 229, had no basic lands.
Shards of Alara was 249, had basic lands.
Zendikar was 249, had basic lands.
Scars of Mirrodin was 249, had basic lands.
Theros was 249, had basic lands.
M10-M14 were 249, had basic lands.
So we know that there are no basic lands in MM15, which means we have the outlier to look at possible set construction. The exception is Gatecrash, which is 101-80-53-15. 80 uncommons. Given the high quality of the Mythics being printed, it's possible we'll see something like 101-70-63-15, with a slightly lower Mythic insertion rate. Or they could go with what they've done before, at 101-80-53-15.
Once a card gets speculated hard, there'll be permanent damage, or what some know as a price floor. Some will call it price memory, even though some speculated cards are so darn crap, they can never revert back to its true price.
Sorry, I meant basic lands, I'll fix that in a sec. MM had 11 total lands, printed at 1 common, 6 uncommon, 4 rare. So they were integrated into the deck, while this set is a bit different.
Modern Masters was 229, had no basic lands.
Shards of Alara was 249, had basic lands.
Zendikar was 249, had basic lands.
Scars of Mirrodin was 249, had basic lands.
Theros was 249, had basic lands.
M10-M14 were 249, had basic lands.
So we know that there are no basic lands in MM15, which means we have the outlier to look at possible set construction. The exception is Gatecrash, which is 101-80-53-15. 80 uncommons. Given the high quality of the Mythics being printed, it's possible we'll see something like 101-70-63-15, with a slightly lower Mythic insertion rate. Or they could go with what they've done before, at 101-80-53-15.
Just something that occurred to me.
Both M2015, Khans and Dragons have 249 cards + basics, so we can expect the same distribution as those sets had without the basics:
15 Mythics
53 rares
80 Uncommons
101 commons
Edit: (If you disregard the "extra" M2015 cards that were technically in the set but could not be got in boosters, with collector numbers #270-#284, like Cancel.
Both M2015, Khans and Dragons have 249 cards + basics, so we can expect the same distribution as those sets had without the basics:
15 Mythics
53 rares
80 Uncommons
101 commons
Edit: (If you disregard the "extra" M2015 cards that were technically in the set but could not be got in boosters, with collector numbers #270-#284, like Cancel.
Hmm, didn't really think about the 249+lands sets, but that's a good point... so we can likely expect the 101-80-53-15 breakdown to be accurate. Thanks!
Just got done doing a bunch of math and a write-up on what I'm guessing EV will be on this set. Going to post it in a separate thread tomorrow. Pretty surprising stuff, actually, even to me.
Regular sets are designed 2 years in advance. These special supplemental reprint sets (like commander, duel decks, etc) are probably shorter in the timeline, since they need no/less R&D.
Not for nothin, but according to MaRo they begin design for sets 16 months before they are released, though you are undoubtedly correct that special sets take less time.
If you check Starcitygames now you will find most of the cards listed in the leak are now "out of stock" which means this list is most certainly real. Reason is SCG always holds back on money cards when they know a big profit margin is coming their way and MM 2015 fits right into that slot. See for yourselves.
This poster is right. SCG, or any retailer of goods (like your chips, dairy products, etc) will pull back their affected lineup for scaling/reassessment of prices. In SCG's case, it'll be seen as sold out, to prevent anyone buying and to also cut their losses.
It's not new. SCG knows that every big buyer plays the game with them (well it's partly their fault) so these stocks are reined in to be recalibrated.
And as I've mentioned before, it's not uncommon for the big megashark stores like SCG to have prior info with regards to new card/set/block information. It's mostly privy to the very top. But that's because these stores are so important to Wizards' relationship. Not that I personally like it but it's happening.
The original objection still stands: If SCG has insider information that these cards are about to be reprinted, why aren't they selling as many copies as they possibly can before the price goes down? They're not going to be brought into a new format as if they were reprinted in a Standard-legal set. If Modern Masters 2015 increases demand for Modern staples in general then the price of these cards is going to increase anyway. Please, please tell me how exactly you believe increased supply will cause increased prices of only the specific cards that are being reprinted (or perhaps these specific cards to a greater extent than others?) and then tell me why you think SCG holds to this extremely heterodox school of economic thought.
Maybe they are not as convinced, as you are, that these cards will drop heavily in value?
I'm not convinced that they will drop heavily in value. I am, however, convinced that there does not exist a causal chain that would cause reprinted cards and only reprinted cards to increase in value. Is it too much to ask that we think this through? If you think that SCG is doing this because they believe these cards will be reprinted, that means you think they believe the cards being reprinted will increase their value (or you think they are concerned that their prices might be too high and want to save their customers money for some reason). If you think this, then you must explain how it is supposed to make any sense whatsoever. An increase in demand induced by the printing of Modern Masters 2015 will not suffice, because that will raise the price of all Modern staples. There is no logical scenario under which the price of cards that are reprinted will increase at a greater rate than those which are not reprinted.
Having six colorless cards also makes that "leaked" list seem a bit less believable as well, since another colored mythic would get pushed to only one. Not impossible, but coupled with what RyO37 mentioned, I'm not buying it.
I actually think it is very close to impossible for the colorless cards. All is Dust means one less slot for a non-mythic eldrazi-big stuff archetype card, and having back the two titans as well means at least 6 colorless cards, but presumably because of the archetypes needs of common/uncommon reprints like Ulamog's Crusher or Skittering Invasion, this should be up to 8. And 8 is mathematically hard with Vendilion Clique at 67 and goyf at 165. Goyf at 165 means at least 32 cards per color. 32 cards per color means 8+64=72: 5 cards after Clique in blue when Clique is a "V". I know there are cool and likely reprints after clique in alphabetical order (Wake Thrasher, Windrider Eel, Viral Drake...), but 5 cards after "V" is too many to be likely.
Honestly, that number distribution with Clique at 67 pretty much means 90% chances of no other eldrazi titans than Emrakul, and most of the 10% I am leaving back are with Artisan of kozilek at common and no All is Dust.
You seem pretty confident that there's an "eldrazi-big stuff archetype", based on what exactly? Rise of the Eldrazi was noted for its unusual limited environment that existed largely the justify the existence of such an archetype. How could they balance it against the rest of Modern Masters without making it Rise of the Eldrazi 2.0? Once you stop assuming that this is just given, your analysis falls to pieces.
I agree that it is totally possible that there is no "eldrazi big-stuff archetype", but if the mythic list was true there would be one. No real support for one Emrakul is plausible, but no archetype to sneak in 3 eldrazi titans + iona (+all is dust + karn + elseh norn even if those 3 could support other archetypes) as mythics is very improbable. And if such an archetype exist, it as to be supported at low rarities. It could just be Tron lands and Hexplate Golem and thus lowering the need of colorless cards, but because of flavor I refuse to think that the eldrazi-archetype, if it exist, would not have common and uncommon eldrazi creatures.
Anyway, my point is more to demonstrate that having the 3 eldrazi titans is very unlikely with the number crunch, thus the spoiled mythic list should not be taken that seriously.
EDIT: Note than in Modern Masters 1, Progenitus was arguably the only mythic that was not limited playable. Dark Confidant was not trully part of any archetype and Tarmogoyf pretty bad, but both of these are also allegedly in the set.
Alright, fair, there is likely a ramp archetype to allow these mythics to be playable. That doesn't justify your admitted refusal to even consider the possibility that Ulamog's Crusher and Hand of Emrakul are not among the payloads. You're literally attempting to demonstrate that we shouldn't leap to conclusions about what's in this set, do you not see the irony there? From another angle, you are valuing the vague notion of flavour in a draft archetype from a reprint set above the potential for including the full set of Eldrazi Titans. There's at least as much going for that argument as there is for yours; I was reasonably confident from the moment Emrakul was spoiled that we would also see Ulamog and Kozilek. There are plenty of ways everything we know for certain reconciles with this list of mythics, the only way you're "demonstrating" that it's unlikely is by resorting to making unsubstantiated assumptions about cards that haven't even been hinted. Artisan of Kozilek could well be the only non-rare Eldrazi in the set (it's basically a coin flip whether its in or not if this mythic list is correct). There might not be an equal number of cards per colour (they occasionally vary it by 1 or so). There might in fact be five blue cards that come alphabetically after Vendilion Clique. None of these possibilities are enormously implausible, and none of your assumptions are confirmed; certainly they are not more likely than this list being correct.
Seeing Fulminator Mage as a mythic as a Tron player pleases me. I do like these spoilers so far though. Considering buying a box for 220 euros..
where did we get confirmation of fulminator mage as a mythic?
the source just said it was in but it wasn't in his list of mythics\
I'm hoping it gets bumped down to uncommon, because there's no reason why it should be a $40 card
Based on that. Then again the source MIGHT be wrong as you said. But the point being I based my comment on the current information.
Seeing Fulminator Mage as a mythic as a Tron player pleases me. I do like these spoilers so far though. Considering buying a box for 220 euros..
where did we get confirmation of fulminator mage as a mythic? the source just said it was in but it wasn't in his list of mythics\
I'm hoping it gets bumped down to uncommon, because there's no reason why it should be a $40 card
Based on that. Then again the source MIGHT be wrong as you said. But the point being I based my comment on the current information.
I guess you read the source wrong then. The source says Mage is in the set, but says nothing about its rarity.
Anyone knows who you can message when there's something wrong with the spoilers list? The mythic rarity on Fulminator Mage is causing debate and the list is still missing Elesh Norn, and All is Dust has the border of a white card for some reason...
I seriously doubt Mage's mythic rarity, but Wizards have trolled us hard before. If it's true eventually, I wonder how they'll defend its rarity shift.
If you have any large percentage of your net wealth invested into magic cards you are terrible with money.
How do you define large?
I don't know, enough where you actually think of your card collection as a serious wealth asset? If you plan on retiring on cardboard, you've already lost it.
Really really hoping for key Mill cards and tribal cards, particularly Glimpse the Unthinkable and Adaptive Automaton will be in MM2 for more casual players, as those can be hard to get your hands on. Plus Adaptive Automaton would enable many different tribal strategies in MM2 limited.
No offence intended but for 10 dollars a booster, I really hope they don't fill them with casual jank like Adaptive Automaton. That kind of card belongs in duel decks or starter packs not in this kind of product.
I could almost see it at uncommon like the Lorwyn lords. Doesn't do anything all that fantastic compared to something like Merrow Reejerey plus it would help a lot of archetypes without seeing to many at once.
If this leak is correct, I would guess red will be the color with only one mythic and also that Linvala will be one of the banner cards in this year's FTV product. With the Praetors obviously not making it in as a cycle, I'm betting on Phyrexian Obliterator being the second black mythic and I'm holding out hope Azusa will be the other green one.
I wouldn't mind more colorless mythics, but I would bet on Obliterator at least. I wouldn't be surprised by Batterskull or a Sword. I could see Azusa being mythic, but she doesn't feel mythic.
FTV: Angels will probably be headlined by either Akroma, Avacyn, Linvala, or Iona. Maybe Baneslayer Angel.
I believe we're lacking another planeswalker. MM1 has 2, but it's not a must for them to have 2-3 walkers but it's definitely not out of the woods yet.
Hmmmm, I wonder how much rage we'll see/hear when they open their first pack and it's Incendiary Command.
Probably similar to opening up 4 Ugin's Nexus in one box of Khans.
Certainly less than having a MM1 box with whooping FIVE mythics: Yosei, Keiga, Ryusei, Jugan and Progenitus... (true story ^_^;^_^;)
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Speculators are a plague on the game and yes, they do make hard to find staples even harder to find.I know a guy who owns 50 toughtseize. 50! Why? Because it's going to be even more valuable someday. He is not playing a single one of them. And guess what? He is waiting for 20 more in the mail.
Speculators are not encouraging the growth of the game in any way and are in fact hindering it.
How does the guy who owns 70 thoughtseize prevent anyone else from buying their own playset? With the Theros reprint and the resulting price drop, anyone who doesn't have thoughtseize has no room to complain today imo.
So many shops base their prices on SCG, yet SCG is the most overpriced and reactive group of sharks I've ever seen. Dragonlord Ojutai sees play in 1 deck over the weekend and by Monday prices have moved up $5. A new deck shows up on a Modern top 16, and 1 common that barely ever saw play before goes from 15 cents to $2 overnight. This is not demand. Modern has been in a perpetual state of price gouging by SCG since they bought out every online retailer of ZEN fetches a few years ago. More recently, GP Richmond, when Modern officially became 'big', saw SCG driving up the value of every card in the Modern pool, whether it sees play or not. Then when a tourney comes around every other weekend, they jack up any card they may have missed...
- 'Investing' in magic is dumb. Painfully dumb. You pay money for a piece of carboard that all came from the same place, but prices vary from a nickel to two hundred dollars... You have cardboard.
But.. isn't that exactly what SCG is doing.. investing in Magic.. buying inventory to sell at a higher price? Are they painfully dumb for doing so?
Also SCG does not set the price for cards on ebay. Sure, their price list may affect some of the 'buy it now' prices but not all of them, and not auctions. I've occasionally been watching tarmogyf recently on ebay and have noticed they are not selling for the SCG price, and was surprised to see auctions ending unsold without any buyers (and these were a $100 starting price for a m/nm MM1 tarmogyf).
[/quote] When most cards are under $10, the game is, yes, competitive, but also boring. It's the diversity of decks and strategies that makes MTG very interesting, and without higher prices for better material, that diversity would be stripped away and most people would be playing whatever is commonly accepted as the best deck. Speculators/Investors, collectors and players all need to be given consideration when building sets, issuing reprints, stuff like that. MTG isn't a game, it's basically a small economy made up of these three classes of individuals, and if you cut any one group out, the game will begin to fail.
Failure to understand that MTG is so much more than just a game is dangerous.[/quote]
I have to disagree with you. I have a full competetive Burn deck, as do several of my friends. when it is considered the best deck, we don't play it as much because the game gets boring, the last time Burn gut huge, I switched to a homebrew Tron and did just fine. Collectors need to bve acknowledged, trading valuable cards is part of the game and can be fun, but screw the investors/speculators. a playset or 2 of all shocks is fine, but there are guys around me who have 10 playsets of each shock, that is the kind of person who is a problem and they will kill the game if left unchecked. just look at Legacy, it is dying slowly because a handful of people over a decade ago were afraid to lose money playing a game. and even if you are one who says Legacy is not dying, how about Vintage? did protecting the value of the speculators stockpiles do the game itself any good?
101 Commons
60 Uncommons
53 Rares
15 Mythic Rares
20 Lands
Modern Masters was 229, had no basic lands.
Shards of Alara was 249, had basic lands.
Zendikar was 249, had basic lands.
Scars of Mirrodin was 249, had basic lands.
Theros was 249, had basic lands.
M10-M14 were 249, had basic lands.
So we know that there are no basic lands in MM15, which means we have the outlier to look at possible set construction. The exception is Gatecrash, which is 101-80-53-15. 80 uncommons. Given the high quality of the Mythics being printed, it's possible we'll see something like 101-70-63-15, with a slightly lower Mythic insertion rate. Or they could go with what they've done before, at 101-80-53-15.
Just something that occurred to me.
Once a card gets speculated hard, there'll be permanent damage, or what some know as a price floor. Some will call it price memory, even though some speculated cards are so darn crap, they can never revert back to its true price.
I don't think speculation is as good as some say.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Sorry, I meant basic lands, I'll fix that in a sec. MM had 11 total lands, printed at 1 common, 6 uncommon, 4 rare. So they were integrated into the deck, while this set is a bit different.
Both M2015, Khans and Dragons have 249 cards + basics, so we can expect the same distribution as those sets had without the basics:
15 Mythics
53 rares
80 Uncommons
101 commons
Edit: (If you disregard the "extra" M2015 cards that were technically in the set but could not be got in boosters, with collector numbers #270-#284, like Cancel.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
Hmm, didn't really think about the 249+lands sets, but that's a good point... so we can likely expect the 101-80-53-15 breakdown to be accurate. Thanks!
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I'm not convinced that they will drop heavily in value. I am, however, convinced that there does not exist a causal chain that would cause reprinted cards and only reprinted cards to increase in value. Is it too much to ask that we think this through? If you think that SCG is doing this because they believe these cards will be reprinted, that means you think they believe the cards being reprinted will increase their value (or you think they are concerned that their prices might be too high and want to save their customers money for some reason). If you think this, then you must explain how it is supposed to make any sense whatsoever. An increase in demand induced by the printing of Modern Masters 2015 will not suffice, because that will raise the price of all Modern staples. There is no logical scenario under which the price of cards that are reprinted will increase at a greater rate than those which are not reprinted.
Alright, fair, there is likely a ramp archetype to allow these mythics to be playable. That doesn't justify your admitted refusal to even consider the possibility that Ulamog's Crusher and Hand of Emrakul are not among the payloads. You're literally attempting to demonstrate that we shouldn't leap to conclusions about what's in this set, do you not see the irony there? From another angle, you are valuing the vague notion of flavour in a draft archetype from a reprint set above the potential for including the full set of Eldrazi Titans. There's at least as much going for that argument as there is for yours; I was reasonably confident from the moment Emrakul was spoiled that we would also see Ulamog and Kozilek. There are plenty of ways everything we know for certain reconciles with this list of mythics, the only way you're "demonstrating" that it's unlikely is by resorting to making unsubstantiated assumptions about cards that haven't even been hinted. Artisan of Kozilek could well be the only non-rare Eldrazi in the set (it's basically a coin flip whether its in or not if this mythic list is correct). There might not be an equal number of cards per colour (they occasionally vary it by 1 or so). There might in fact be five blue cards that come alphabetically after Vendilion Clique. None of these possibilities are enormously implausible, and none of your assumptions are confirmed; certainly they are not more likely than this list being correct.
Based on that. Then again the source MIGHT be wrong as you said. But the point being I based my comment on the current information.
I guess you read the source wrong then. The source says Mage is in the set, but says nothing about its rarity.
My Modern Decks:
BGWAbzan MidrangeWGB
UWRJeskai NahiriRWU
BRUGrixis ControlURB
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I don't know, enough where you actually think of your card collection as a serious wealth asset? If you plan on retiring on cardboard, you've already lost it.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/13649 - My all foil cube.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I could almost see it at uncommon like the Lorwyn lords. Doesn't do anything all that fantastic compared to something like Merrow Reejerey plus it would help a lot of archetypes without seeing to many at once.
Certainly less than having a MM1 box with whooping FIVE mythics: Yosei, Keiga, Ryusei, Jugan and Progenitus... (true story ^_^;^_^;)
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
How does the guy who owns 70 thoughtseize prevent anyone else from buying their own playset? With the Theros reprint and the resulting price drop, anyone who doesn't have thoughtseize has no room to complain today imo.
But.. isn't that exactly what SCG is doing.. investing in Magic.. buying inventory to sell at a higher price? Are they painfully dumb for doing so?
Also SCG does not set the price for cards on ebay. Sure, their price list may affect some of the 'buy it now' prices but not all of them, and not auctions. I've occasionally been watching tarmogyf recently on ebay and have noticed they are not selling for the SCG price, and was surprised to see auctions ending unsold without any buyers (and these were a $100 starting price for a m/nm MM1 tarmogyf).
anyways, which of the spoiled cards are mythic and which are rare?