Tarmogoyf/Bob/Clique/etc. all went up in price while also going up in supply. If there is an increase in supply, prices should drop, unless there is also an increase in in demand. Because prices did increase on the best cards, it is a pretty easy conclusion that demand had to go up more than supply went up.
We also know that WOTC cancelled the Modern PT, and due to community pressure (maybe from a vocal minority), they changed their mind and re-instituted the Modern PT.
This is obviously not "hard" evidence, but it is very strong evidence that there was a higher demand for Modern after MM than there was before it.
None of this actually illustrates what I am looking for. A few money cards went up in price, (maybe) but that doesn't automatically mean the cost of a deck went up, nor that the barrier to entry is higher. Just because there was public pressure to bring back a Modern PT also doesn't mean that there are more players playing a format. There may have just been an already large, vocal player base for the format.
Why don't you be specific about what you are looking for, and how you will use the data? It's possible that the data could be gathered. - but it's an unreasonable amount of work to ask for without understanding the necessity. Why don't you posit your hypothesis (or in this case, probably a null hypothesis if I understand what you're getting at - as you would need to define the parameters of what values constitute various outcomes and what confidence level is necessary to support those claims [this will define the scope of the data you will need]), and then list the data you would use to test significance? It would also help to see what point you would be making if the data fits, or does not fit, that hypothesis.
Well, you also need raw data/evidence to even form a hypothesis before you can even start testing with additional information. And at the start of this persons inquiry they did say what they were looking for.
hhooven4:
Cost of decks before and after, number of tournaments, tournament attendance.........in a per capita-style sense
The trouble would be finding usable data, using players' or LGS owners' testimony would be murky at best. But maybe using the DCI cards we all use would be a good choice for data collection since that is the data that feeds directly into Wizards. I would recommend poking around the DCI homepage and seeing if you can find it. And if nothing else you could go to the resources section of that site and using the customerservice contact info and ask where you could find this data.
Prices down to 245 now. Nearing my average of about 233 a box.
Where are you seeing this price for pre-order? I've only seen pre-order sales on ebay which is about $250. I have not seen any online retailers doing pre-orders and from what I've been seeing many stores will be holding their inventory to have drafts. Is this the same for other people's experience?
I'm legitimately curious if there are any hard numbers somewhere on the affect Modern Masters had on Modern. Not some marketing manipulation or hype machine propaganda, but real, honest numbers. Cost of decks before and after, number of tournaments, tournament attendance, that kind of thing. And when I talk about number of tournaments/attendance, I mean in a per capita-style sense. I understand Magic is more popular than a year (or five) ago, so a strict comparison in the actual numbers may not be appropriate, but if we know how many tournaments fire for every player of magic before and after MM1, it would actually provide useful data as to the success that MM1 had (or didn't) in bringing new players to the format.
I think we all understand that, from Wizard's perspective, MM1 was a rousing success. Even from the perspective of players and businesses, it was successful; what with being one of the best draft environments in the history of the game and allowing for 300+% profit margins, respectively. The question I think everyone is missing is, should we even be looking at the MM series of sets as a goal to reduce the barrier to entry into the format, or should we be looking at it as a short term great draft environment that also gives us a shot at a money card or two? Regardless of what Wizards says they want, what are they actually showing us.
Go to TCG Player and look up the price histories of all of the cards, and the effect it had on the original copies. With the exception of a few, almost every card dropped for a few weeks. And from there they slowly ticked up. Cryptic Command is a good example of a card that went down and then went up.
if you're paying for [Modern Masters] product, you should be drafting it and attempting to win prize support.
This.
Sure, except the prize isn't guaranteed to be MM-
The very first draft I ever won was for the first Modern Masters,
and I ended up having to pick between RTR, GTC, and DGM because they didn't want to lose precious MM packs
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Well, it might help prevent your regular customers from looking for another LGS that will treat them better. I would understand if a store offered some store credit or some older packs that they have laying around (new phyrexia or older), but to shell out for MM draft (which is more expensive since you pay for MM draft packs and MM prize rates) and then be given RTR GTC or DGM would make just about anyone angry.
At the very least reduce entry fees for the draft to mirror the reduced prize, though you might have already been thinking that already.
Anyone think that Greater Auramancy will see a MM2015 reprint? I need to pick up three copies but don't want to shell out $13 each only to have them plummet to $4 in May...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"To make peace with the forest, make peace with me." -Multani, to Urza
Anyone think that Greater Auramancy will see a MM2015 reprint? I need to pick up three copies but don't want to shell out $13 each only to have them plummet to $4 in May...
I would recommend waiting till after the spoilers are done. That card does not strike me as one that will suddenly change in price in the next month so you have nothing to lose from just waiting.
What are the chances of a shatterstorm reprint in mm15? Also if it does I think gets bumped back up to rare due to anti regen clause and creeping corrosion is at rare.
Prices down to 245 now. Nearing my average of about 233 a box.
Where are you seeing this price for pre-order? I've only seen pre-order sales on ebay which is about $250. I have not seen any online retailers doing pre-orders and from what I've been seeing many stores will be holding their inventory to have drafts. Is this the same for other people's experience?
I found a few stores that were taking online pre-orders for Modern Masters 1, and checked them for MM15.
only two were taking pre-orders and both were sold out at $240 and $275 a box
What are the chances of a shatterstorm reprint in mm15? Also if it does I think gets bumped back up to rare due to anti regen clause and creeping corrosion is at rare.
Though I don't doubt Shatterstorm belongs at rare, it's important to remember that Creeping Corrosion was printed in an artifact-heavy set. If it were at uncommon, it would wreck limited.
I'm legitimately curious if there are any hard numbers somewhere on the affect Modern Masters had on Modern. Not some marketing manipulation or hype machine propaganda, but real, honest numbers. Cost of decks before and after, number of tournaments, tournament attendance, that kind of thing. And when I talk about number of tournaments/attendance, I mean in a per capita-style sense. I understand Magic is more popular than a year (or five) ago, so a strict comparison in the actual numbers may not be appropriate, but if we know how many tournaments fire for every player of magic before and after MM1, it would actually provide useful data as to the success that MM1 had (or didn't) in bringing new players to the format.
I think we all understand that, from Wizard's perspective, MM1 was a rousing success. Even from the perspective of players and businesses, it was successful; what with being one of the best draft environments in the history of the game and allowing for 300+% profit margins, respectively. The question I think everyone is missing is, should we even be looking at the MM series of sets as a goal to reduce the barrier to entry into the format, or should we be looking at it as a short term great draft environment that also gives us a shot at a money card or two? Regardless of what Wizards says they want, what are they actually showing us.
Go to TCG Player and look up the price histories of all of the cards, and the effect it had on the original copies. With the exception of a few, almost every card dropped for a few weeks. And from there they slowly ticked up. Cryptic Command is a good example of a card that went down and then went up.
Is there a way to adjust the range for the price history on TCGplayer to before ~October 2013?
Well, it might help prevent your regular customers from looking for another LGS that will treat them better. I would understand if a store offered some store credit or some older packs that they have laying around (new phyrexia or older), but to shell out for MM draft (which is more expensive since you pay for MM draft packs and MM prize rates) and then be given RTR GTC or DGM would make just about anyone angry.
At the very least reduce entry fees for the draft to mirror the reduced prize, though you might have already been thinking that already.
Prize support is based more on dollar value profit times then number of players rather than packs per se. So one pack of MM- is going to be the equivalent of 2.5 to 3 packs of the standard fare as far as prizes go. For example, if the normal prize payout in an 8-man draft is 8 packs, I would never expect 8 packs of MM2 (it would be more like the choice of either 3 packs MM2 or 8-9 packs KTK/DTK). As far as the higher entry fee for an MM2 draft, you're already keeping what you draft which is going to be a higher value of cards so that's what you're paying extra for vs. a normal draft.
I'm legitimately curious if there are any hard numbers somewhere on the affect Modern Masters had on Modern. Not some marketing manipulation or hype machine propaganda, but real, honest numbers. Cost of decks before and after, number of tournaments, tournament attendance, that kind of thing. And when I talk about number of tournaments/attendance, I mean in a per capita-style sense. I understand Magic is more popular than a year (or five) ago, so a strict comparison in the actual numbers may not be appropriate, but if we know how many tournaments fire for every player of magic before and after MM1, it would actually provide useful data as to the success that MM1 had (or didn't) in bringing new players to the format.
I think we all understand that, from Wizard's perspective, MM1 was a rousing success. Even from the perspective of players and businesses, it was successful; what with being one of the best draft environments in the history of the game and allowing for 300+% profit margins, respectively. The question I think everyone is missing is, should we even be looking at the MM series of sets as a goal to reduce the barrier to entry into the format, or should we be looking at it as a short term great draft environment that also gives us a shot at a money card or two? Regardless of what Wizards says they want, what are they actually showing us.
Go to TCG Player and look up the price histories of all of the cards, and the effect it had on the original copies. With the exception of a few, almost every card dropped for a few weeks. And from there they slowly ticked up. Cryptic Command is a good example of a card that went down and then went up.
Is there a way to adjust the range for the price history on TCGplayer to before ~October 2013?
No, I don't think there is a way. I guess you could go to MTGGoldfish.com but make sure you click on the paper prices.
This set is going to be harder than MM1 to get your hands on, and more expensive to boot. I preordered boxes of MM1 for $185/box, and the other store I talked to back then was charging an even $200. Both stores have told me their allotment of MM2 is less than their allotment of MM1 was. The GP in Vegas is consuming a HUGE portion of the first print run of the set. The pre-order prices around here are in the $250/box range.
This set is going to be harder than MM1 to get your hands on, and more expensive to boot. I preordered boxes of MM1 for $185/box, and the other store I talked to back then was charging an even $200. Both stores have told me their allotment of MM2 is less than their allotment of MM1 was. The GP in Vegas is consuming a HUGE portion of the first print run of the set. The pre-order prices around here are in the $250/box range.
Funny it is lower. The store I plan to spend some of my time at is getting close to 200 boxes. They are obviously getting much of their product outside of the normal allotment, but at 200 boxes for them and there being 3 other stores in the area, I expect this product will be easy to find for a foreseeable future.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
This set is going to be harder than MM1 to get your hands on, and more expensive to boot. I preordered boxes of MM1 for $185/box, and the other store I talked to back then was charging an even $200. Both stores have told me their allotment of MM2 is less than their allotment of MM1 was. The GP in Vegas is consuming a HUGE portion of the first print run of the set. The pre-order prices around here are in the $250/box range.
To be fair people didn't know what was in the first modern masters set except for Tarmogoyf so people could pick up boxes for cheaper than what they would go for. From seeing the success of the first modern masters set, stores are charging more because they expect the same level of high value reprints.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Why don't you be specific about what you are looking for, and how you will use the data? It's possible that the data could be gathered. - but it's an unreasonable amount of work to ask for without understanding the necessity. Why don't you posit your hypothesis (or in this case, probably a null hypothesis if I understand what you're getting at - as you would need to define the parameters of what values constitute various outcomes and what confidence level is necessary to support those claims [this will define the scope of the data you will need]), and then list the data you would use to test significance? It would also help to see what point you would be making if the data fits, or does not fit, that hypothesis.
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
The trouble would be finding usable data, using players' or LGS owners' testimony would be murky at best. But maybe using the DCI cards we all use would be a good choice for data collection since that is the data that feeds directly into Wizards. I would recommend poking around the DCI homepage and seeing if you can find it. And if nothing else you could go to the resources section of that site and using the customerservice contact info and ask where you could find this data.
Where are you seeing this price for pre-order? I've only seen pre-order sales on ebay which is about $250. I have not seen any online retailers doing pre-orders and from what I've been seeing many stores will be holding their inventory to have drafts. Is this the same for other people's experience?
My 233 price is a mix of online deals and local deals.
Go to TCG Player and look up the price histories of all of the cards, and the effect it had on the original copies. With the exception of a few, almost every card dropped for a few weeks. And from there they slowly ticked up. Cryptic Command is a good example of a card that went down and then went up.
Sure, except the prize isn't guaranteed to be MM-
The very first draft I ever won was for the first Modern Masters,
and I ended up having to pick between RTR, GTC, and DGM because they didn't want to lose precious MM packs
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
At the very least reduce entry fees for the draft to mirror the reduced prize, though you might have already been thinking that already.
I would recommend waiting till after the spoilers are done. That card does not strike me as one that will suddenly change in price in the next month so you have nothing to lose from just waiting.
I found a few stores that were taking online pre-orders for Modern Masters 1, and checked them for MM15.
only two were taking pre-orders and both were sold out at $240 and $275 a box
Good thing you don't run a store then. My LGS gives away a combination of MMA packs and other sets.
Though I don't doubt Shatterstorm belongs at rare, it's important to remember that Creeping Corrosion was printed in an artifact-heavy set. If it were at uncommon, it would wreck limited.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Is there a way to adjust the range for the price history on TCGplayer to before ~October 2013?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Prize support is based more on dollar value profit times then number of players rather than packs per se. So one pack of MM- is going to be the equivalent of 2.5 to 3 packs of the standard fare as far as prizes go. For example, if the normal prize payout in an 8-man draft is 8 packs, I would never expect 8 packs of MM2 (it would be more like the choice of either 3 packs MM2 or 8-9 packs KTK/DTK). As far as the higher entry fee for an MM2 draft, you're already keeping what you draft which is going to be a higher value of cards so that's what you're paying extra for vs. a normal draft.
No, I don't think there is a way. I guess you could go to MTGGoldfish.com but make sure you click on the paper prices.
Funny it is lower. The store I plan to spend some of my time at is getting close to 200 boxes. They are obviously getting much of their product outside of the normal allotment, but at 200 boxes for them and there being 3 other stores in the area, I expect this product will be easy to find for a foreseeable future.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
To be fair people didn't know what was in the first modern masters set except for Tarmogoyf so people could pick up boxes for cheaper than what they would go for. From seeing the success of the first modern masters set, stores are charging more because they expect the same level of high value reprints.