Wow, people here must have the memory of a goldfish. When MMA1 was first released, it lowered the prices on cards on almost every card in the set, except for three: Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, and Vendilion Clique. Even for a while the MMA1 versions were worth MORE than the originals because they either had new art or the mythic symbol, and it took a while for the originals to catch up. I remember Cryptic Command being $15$25 (checked on mtggoldfish, I must have bought them for $15 off ebay) instead of $35 where it was originally at before the reprint. Engineered Explosives was like $30 then when it got reprinted it was less than $10. Paradise Mantle went from being $15 to $5. Cards starting going up a bit but then the second wave of MMA1 product came to stores, and prices dropped again. Some cards like Bridge from Below were like $12 and dropped a lot. You can still see that it hasn't recovered.
MMA2 WILL drop prices again, for almost all cards. The reason why the three cards in MMA1 went up first is because there was additional demand from people picking up the cheaper cards.
Don't understand why people are so upset with the MRSP. I agree, it's frustrating. But WoTC could give these boosters to stores for free and they'd still mark them up to $10 per pack.
The secondary market dictates price NO MATTER WHAT. WotC is just trying to give a realistic MSRP. The other option is to put crap in the set so stores can't mark it up, which defeats the whole purpose of MM.
Don't understand why people are so upset with the MRSP. I agree, it's frustrating. But WoTC could give these boosters to stores for free and they'd still mark them up to $10 per pack.
The secondary market dictates price NO MATTER WHAT. WotC is just trying to give a realistic MSRP. The other option is to put crap in the set so stores can't mark it up, which defeats the whole purpose of MM.
While a lot of what you are saying is true, you must realize that MSRP does have a small part to do with it because it means players will expect prices near that number, and stores will be paying less than that number for it. The effect is both real and psychological.
Wow, people here must have the memory of a goldfish. When MMA1 was first released, it lowered the prices on cards on almost every card in the set, except for three: Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, and Vendilion Clique. Even for a while the MMA1 versions were worth MORE than the originals because they either had new art or the mythic symbol, and it took a while for the originals to catch up. I remember Cryptic Command being $15 instead of $35 where it was originally at before the reprint. Engineered Explosives was like $30 then when it got reprinted it was less than $10. Paradise Mantle went from being $15 to $5. Cards starting going up a bit but then the second wave of MMA1 product came to stores, and prices dropped again. Some cards like Bridge from Below were like $12 and dropped a lot. You can still see that it hasn't recovered.
MMA2 WILL drop prices again, for almost all cards. The reason why the three cards in MMA1 went up first is because there was additional demand from people picking up the cheaper cards.
I have said this multiple times. You have to watch the prices there was about a 2-3 week window most cards were lower then prior to the release of MM1. But before MM1 dried up, most of those prices were well above the pre MM1 price. Now I am talking actual played cards in the format. Not all 229 ards.
From a meta point of view, I'm thinking the most important reprint here is Noble Hierarch (correct me if there's something else).
Yeah Serum Visions are expensive but they aren't price-you-out expensive.
While I'm happy to try get some more staples, MM2 has me less impressed being more expensive and all (I'm happier to have bought up all the blue spells from MM1).
People seem to be under the impression that Magic is some kind of public resource or that WotC is a charity. Seriously, stop expecting giveaways or making the unreasonable assertion that secondary prices shouldn't have an impact on how much Wizards prices sealed product for. Wizards can get away with charging $3.99 for 15 pieces of mass produced cardboard because of the secondary market. Why should they not try to make as much as possible fom Modern Masters 2? To help a small subset of players who don't want to spend a lot on Magic?? Explain how catering to low-budget consumers helps their bottom line? Seriously, if you haven't figured out that WotC wants secondary markets prices high for themselves and their own purposes, you haven't been paying attention.
This has been reprinted yet, some of them, later than MM1 so the wont get reprint again
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
Exodite, that's not correct. As someone who was watching eBay closely around MM1, I can assure you that staples not named Bob or Goyf dropped by half or more and stayed there while MM1 was getting opened. I completed playsets of at least a dozen cards like Remand and Spell Snare and so on very happily around that time. Some of these prices have yet to recover. It was only the big ticket items that refused to budge.
Since it looks like Metalcraft is making a return this set, Mox Opal is all but Unconfirmed. Glad I sold mine just last week.
Why?
If this is anything like before, it's not like you'll be able to buy replacements for $10.
If you wanted them, you might as well have held onto them.
If not... congratulations!
Exodite, that's not correct. As someone who was watching eBay closely around MM1, I can assure you that staples not named Bob or Goyf dropped by half or more and stayed there while MM1 was getting opened. I completed playsets of at least a dozen cards like Remand and Spell Snare and so on very happily around that time. Some of these prices have yet to recover. It was only the big ticket items that refused to budge.
Say what? Remand wasn't in MM1- I bought *my* playset on the day they revealed that.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
The selective memory bit is rather humorous, in a tragical way mind, as any number of Modern staples were far cheaper when MM1 was announced than when it was widely available - let alone a few months later.
The product helped hype and boost the strong growth of the format, without even remotely delivering on the accessibility issues.
As far as the Modern format overall was concerned MM1 was a monumental fail.
Rather than addressing the concerns raised by the execution of MM1, or the general failure to support Modern as a format, we now get a product that's actually even worse.
Great.
I don't want Modern to go the way of Vintage and Legacy. I want it to keep growing and to be able to sustain a broad base of players to keep the game going once the novelty of Standard wanes for the influx of new players.
This means making an effort to drive down prices of staples, hard. Because the game, and the format, is growing so quickly that half-measures like reprinting a couple of Mythic Rares in a limited print-run set that no one (in the sense of the wider player base) is particularly interested in - nor can afford - does **** all for accessibility/availability/affordability.
Wizards doesn't care about Modern as much as it cares about Standard. Standard is the money-maker, and if you think that Wizards really cares about anything else at the end of the day, you need to open your eyes. The Modern format itself was created as a cash-grab so that they could churn out a reprint set every so often and make money hand over fist.
And "once the novelty of Standard wanes for the influx of new players"??? You can't be serious. Whiners have been predicting the decline or demise of Standard for as long as it's been around. Guess what? It's still the most successful format. You know why? Because it makes Wizards the most money, so they are going to sacrifice the well-being of every other format to ensure Standard always comes first.
Wizards doesn't really care how much you profess to love the game or play the game. They may pretend that they do, and maybe even individuals within the organization genuinely do. But when it comes down to it, they cater the most to players who are willing and able to regularly spend money on the game. Modern players who never crack packs aren't those people, so why do you think that they would bend over backwards so that low-budget players will get into a format that will help Wizards very little, if it all, financially? Products geared at the Modern format will always be a cash grab. Get used to it or prepared to be continually disappointed.
So... dare we hope they print cards like Counterspell or Recoil here?
I know many have hoped they would use MM as a vehicle for cards "too good" for Standard, but not Modern.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I'm torn with my guess. From a business perspective, Wizards wants them in a normal set. From a gameplay perspective, Wizards doesn't want them in standard (too much shuffling) so that would point to MM2 or something like that.
They've quite obviously completely abandoned that line of thinking, if they ever had it. We just had Fetchland reprints. They are in standard right now. On top of that we have Evolving Wilds, Heliod's Pilgrim, Emobdiment of Spring, Cranial Archive, Boonweaver Gian, Nissa's Expedition all at common/uncommon in the past two sets. Two of those see some play in standard currently. Add on top of that Liliana, Hoarding Dragon, Genesis Hydra, Chord of Calling, Trail of Mystery, and Yisan at Rare/Mythic.
For a R&D that doesn't like shuffling in standard, they seem to have clogged standard with shuffling effects, no?
Just from drafting, I got 6 Goyfs and 2 play sets of Bobs on top some sweet foils and other mythic and rares. So I drafted the set quite a bit. I didnt 'expect' anything. I was hoping to break even drafting and I did very well.
I am just saying I heard the people your are explaining. They thought every pack they would open was going to be more then they paid for it. It was unrealistic thinking.
I know many people that got play sets from drafting. So I dont know what you consider drafting 'a lot'.
You speak as though you represent the average out come of drafting MM1 which your are not, if what you have stated is true. The scenario that you just stated about yourself and those you know is a small group out of the total population of Magic the gathering drafters. So for every person that can come forth and say that they got the play set, or more, of super good cards, a greater number will be in the party of 'I got nothing worth bragging about.'
On the note of people "Thinking they would get more than what they paid for." Please be logical, it was truthfully people just wanting to brake even. The majority had to buy MM1 at twice or even more that the MSRP, which was marked at that MSRP because it most likely represented the estimated average value of the MM1 packs' contents. So yes there was unrealistic expectations because the merchandise was hyped then price hiked.
I don't mind them reprinting any of those cards from Pod since I bought my Nobles on Ebay for 57-60, and bought a Linvala for around $41. I do not see Damnation showing up since it doesn't fit the planes they listed. Also it looks like Tarmogoyf isn't coming back again. Liliana of the Veil isn't going to happen since its the Regional PTQ promo.
I am shocked by the higher price jump but it sounds like you are now guaranteed a foil in every pack. I don't remember if that was the case in Modern Masters.
Just from drafting, I got 6 Goyfs and 2 play sets of Bobs on top some sweet foils and other mythic and rares. So I drafted the set quite a bit. I didnt 'expect' anything. I was hoping to break even drafting and I did very well.
I am just saying I heard the people your are explaining. They thought every pack they would open was going to be more then they paid for it. It was unrealistic thinking.
I know many people that got play sets from drafting. So I dont know what you consider drafting 'a lot'.
You speak as though you represent the average out come of drafting MM1 which your are not, if what you have stated is true. The scenario that you just stated about yourself and those you know is a small group out of the total population of Magic the gathering drafters. So for every person that can come forth and say that they got the play set, or more, of super good cards, a greater number will be in the party of 'I got nothing worth bragging about.'
On the note of people "Thinking they would get more than what they paid for." Please be logical, it was truthfully people just wanting to brake even. The majority had to buy MM1 at twice or even more that the MSRP, which was marked at that MSRP because it most likely represented the estimated average value of the MM1 packs' contents. So yes there was unrealistic expectations because the merchandise was hyped then price hiked.
You have to realize I drafted this set more then most. I went into it with no intention of getting those numbers of those cards. I am far from the norm in this situation. Most people I know didnt draft this set more then a handful of times, but I know people who cracked a Goyf first time out and they thought that would happen every time they drafted. All I was trying to show is there are more Goyfs in circulation now because of MM1.
As for those who 'had' to buy the product at a mark up, they had the option to draft. A scenario where you actually get to pick the cards you get.
Everyone has their 'level' of too expensive. $10 a pack is not mine. It wasnt for MM1, it wont be for MM2.
I think people are forgetting that these aren't being made to drop the prices on modern cards, they're made to keep the prices from going up any more than they already have. Also 10$ packs are no big deal since stores are just going to mark them anyways. The packs could msrp $2 but stores will still charge you 15 if they think the packs are worth 15.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
¨%$#@ **** 2015 i will have to make my economics right, have to start save money Damm maybe buying and playing with it just in june Hate to like other games
Just because there are more Goyfs in circulation right now does not mean the format is more accessible. Especially when there is MORE of a card in circulation yet somehow the card has doubled in price. If you have any basic understanding of economics, it is clear that something has gone wrong with MMA and how it apparently made the Modern format more accessible.
I do not have short term memory about prices. Some prices dropped pretty low, others didn't drop at all, and I assure you that Goyf quickly began to climb in price - because I had to pay cash for mine when I was able to find them from people still cracking them. Which was rare because someone would crack 1 and want 3 more. Increasing the supply to demand 3 fold.
You also have to understand that even when the prices of some of the cards are dropping, the set was promised to create accessibility for people wanting to break into Modern and a lot of people purchased sealed product where they could because of that promise. Only to open a bunch of Kami dragons and Commander staples that quickly depreciated in value, making it hard to turn your cards around for actual modern playable cards.
Not everyone is fortunate enough to pay gouged prices on sealed product, open it to realize it is a crap shoot for accessing modern, and turn around and buy the singles because of it.
This includes people who were not looking to specifically pick up playsets of Goyfs, but simply to pick up spare modern playables to some degree of efficiency - which was not efficient at all outside of grabbing your Lightning Helix sets, your Spell Snare sets, your Kitchen Finks sets, and so forth.
I also love how you tell me that what I think a lot probably isn't a lot based on how much product you open, then go on to say that you opened more product than most people while presuming that you are somewhere in the fold of the norm...
Get real.
$10 is not "too expensive". $10 is just not worth experiencing the same grief that was the MMA experience.
So... dare we hope they print cards like Counterspell or Recoil here?
I know many have hoped they would use MM as a vehicle for cards "too good" for Standard, but not Modern.
If WotC were adding cards to the format, I'd expect that would have been mentioned as a selling point in the article. In the absence of such an announcement, I expect it will be purely cards that were already in Modern.
As far as the price point goes - this is the same as MM1, except Wizards are setting up the release so that some of the profits that went to distributors and dealers last time from the $12 packs come to them instead. Players will probably pay the same amount or close to it and distributors will have smaller markups.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
$15$25 (checked on mtggoldfish, I must have bought them for $15 off ebay) instead of $35 where it was originally at before the reprint. Engineered Explosives was like $30 then when it got reprinted it was less than $10. Paradise Mantle went from being $15 to $5. Cards starting going up a bit but then the second wave of MMA1 product came to stores, and prices dropped again. Some cards like Bridge from Below were like $12 and dropped a lot. You can still see that it hasn't recovered.MMA2 WILL drop prices again, for almost all cards. The reason why the three cards in MMA1 went up first is because there was additional demand from people picking up the cheaper cards.
The secondary market dictates price NO MATTER WHAT. WotC is just trying to give a realistic MSRP. The other option is to put crap in the set so stores can't mark it up, which defeats the whole purpose of MM.
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
I have said this multiple times. You have to watch the prices there was about a 2-3 week window most cards were lower then prior to the release of MM1. But before MM1 dried up, most of those prices were well above the pre MM1 price. Now I am talking actual played cards in the format. Not all 229 ards.
Yeah Serum Visions are expensive but they aren't price-you-out expensive.
While I'm happy to try get some more staples, MM2 has me less impressed being more expensive and all (I'm happier to have bought up all the blue spells from MM1).
This has been reprinted yet, some of them, later than MM1 so the wont get reprint again
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
Why?
If this is anything like before, it's not like you'll be able to buy replacements for $10.
If you wanted them, you might as well have held onto them.
If not... congratulations!
Say what? Remand wasn't in MM1- I bought *my* playset on the day they revealed that.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Wizards doesn't care about Modern as much as it cares about Standard. Standard is the money-maker, and if you think that Wizards really cares about anything else at the end of the day, you need to open your eyes. The Modern format itself was created as a cash-grab so that they could churn out a reprint set every so often and make money hand over fist.
And "once the novelty of Standard wanes for the influx of new players"??? You can't be serious. Whiners have been predicting the decline or demise of Standard for as long as it's been around. Guess what? It's still the most successful format. You know why? Because it makes Wizards the most money, so they are going to sacrifice the well-being of every other format to ensure Standard always comes first.
Wizards doesn't really care how much you profess to love the game or play the game. They may pretend that they do, and maybe even individuals within the organization genuinely do. But when it comes down to it, they cater the most to players who are willing and able to regularly spend money on the game. Modern players who never crack packs aren't those people, so why do you think that they would bend over backwards so that low-budget players will get into a format that will help Wizards very little, if it all, financially? Products geared at the Modern format will always be a cash grab. Get used to it or prepared to be continually disappointed.
I know many have hoped they would use MM as a vehicle for cards "too good" for Standard, but not Modern.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
They've quite obviously completely abandoned that line of thinking, if they ever had it. We just had Fetchland reprints. They are in standard right now. On top of that we have Evolving Wilds, Heliod's Pilgrim, Emobdiment of Spring, Cranial Archive, Boonweaver Gian, Nissa's Expedition all at common/uncommon in the past two sets. Two of those see some play in standard currently. Add on top of that Liliana, Hoarding Dragon, Genesis Hydra, Chord of Calling, Trail of Mystery, and Yisan at Rare/Mythic.
For a R&D that doesn't like shuffling in standard, they seem to have clogged standard with shuffling effects, no?
You speak as though you represent the average out come of drafting MM1 which your are not, if what you have stated is true. The scenario that you just stated about yourself and those you know is a small group out of the total population of Magic the gathering drafters. So for every person that can come forth and say that they got the play set, or more, of super good cards, a greater number will be in the party of 'I got nothing worth bragging about.'
On the note of people "Thinking they would get more than what they paid for." Please be logical, it was truthfully people just wanting to brake even. The majority had to buy MM1 at twice or even more that the MSRP, which was marked at that MSRP because it most likely represented the estimated average value of the MM1 packs' contents. So yes there was unrealistic expectations because the merchandise was hyped then price hiked.
I am shocked by the higher price jump but it sounds like you are now guaranteed a foil in every pack. I don't remember if that was the case in Modern Masters.
I will be going to Vegas for this one hopefully
True, true.
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
You have to realize I drafted this set more then most. I went into it with no intention of getting those numbers of those cards. I am far from the norm in this situation. Most people I know didnt draft this set more then a handful of times, but I know people who cracked a Goyf first time out and they thought that would happen every time they drafted. All I was trying to show is there are more Goyfs in circulation now because of MM1.
As for those who 'had' to buy the product at a mark up, they had the option to draft. A scenario where you actually get to pick the cards you get.
Everyone has their 'level' of too expensive. $10 a pack is not mine. It wasnt for MM1, it wont be for MM2.
Really? How exactly did you come to that conclusion, what arguments are being made that lead to such a conclusion?
!@$%¨& YES!!!!
¨%$#@ **** 2015 i will have to make my economics right, have to start save money Damm maybe buying and playing with it just in june Hate to like other games
I do not have short term memory about prices. Some prices dropped pretty low, others didn't drop at all, and I assure you that Goyf quickly began to climb in price - because I had to pay cash for mine when I was able to find them from people still cracking them. Which was rare because someone would crack 1 and want 3 more. Increasing the supply to demand 3 fold.
You also have to understand that even when the prices of some of the cards are dropping, the set was promised to create accessibility for people wanting to break into Modern and a lot of people purchased sealed product where they could because of that promise. Only to open a bunch of Kami dragons and Commander staples that quickly depreciated in value, making it hard to turn your cards around for actual modern playable cards.
Not everyone is fortunate enough to pay gouged prices on sealed product, open it to realize it is a crap shoot for accessing modern, and turn around and buy the singles because of it.
This includes people who were not looking to specifically pick up playsets of Goyfs, but simply to pick up spare modern playables to some degree of efficiency - which was not efficient at all outside of grabbing your Lightning Helix sets, your Spell Snare sets, your Kitchen Finks sets, and so forth.
I also love how you tell me that what I think a lot probably isn't a lot based on how much product you open, then go on to say that you opened more product than most people while presuming that you are somewhere in the fold of the norm...
Get real.
$10 is not "too expensive". $10 is just not worth experiencing the same grief that was the MMA experience.
If WotC were adding cards to the format, I'd expect that would have been mentioned as a selling point in the article. In the absence of such an announcement, I expect it will be purely cards that were already in Modern.
As far as the price point goes - this is the same as MM1, except Wizards are setting up the release so that some of the profits that went to distributors and dealers last time from the $12 packs come to them instead. Players will probably pay the same amount or close to it and distributors will have smaller markups.