I get the feeling that creative has something much more depressing in mind for our return to Elspeth's storyline.
I'm unclear on why you expect a depressing return.
If they stick to the monomyth, we still have transformation, atonement, and return. I've seen a lot of people wondering if "transformation" will have her taking on angelic qualities, given the Bant connection. It would also be a nice parallel if Ob Nixilis does manage to get his spark back.
If they don't stick to the monomyth, more modern resurrection stories tend to depict a triumphant return from death, with greater determination and strength from having undergone that trial.
Elspeth versus Xenagos would have made more sense than this, but I still have some hope for some excellent reprints in this set, most notably mystic snake, Jhessian infiltrator, voidslime, and plasm capture. I do expect that Gaea's skyfolk and Kiora's follower are practically guaranteed to be in this set, but I am less certain about what cards Elspeth's deck shall contain, since it is monocolored and therefore has a massive amount of cards available.
Mark Rosewater said that the reason that they did not choose Xenagos was because such a duel deck would be too similar to Speed versus Cunning, but I fail to see how that would be the case; Speed versus Cunning was red/blue/white versus red/black/white, while Eslpeth versus Xenagos would have been white versus red/green, so how are those remotely similar?
I love this Elspeth art because she's not twisting her spine to show off her ass.
When has Elspeth ever done that? Such a pose would definitely be in-character for Liliana, but Elspeth is very modest and does not use her sex appeal to influence others (from what I know of her).
I get the feeling that creative has something much more depressing in mind for our return to Elspeth's storyline.
I'm unclear on why you expect a depressing return.
If they stick to the monomyth, we still have transformation, atonement, and return. I've seen a lot of people wondering if "transformation" will have her taking on angelic qualities, given the Bant connection. It would also be a nice parallel if Ob Nixilis does manage to get his spark back.
If they don't stick to the monomyth, more modern resurrection stories tend to depict a triumphant return from death, with greater determination and strength from having undergone that trial.
I like you. I'm glad you are leaning more on the more positive possible outcomes. Those are the type of stories I prefer. It's funny you said that cause I was talking in another thread that what I thought should happen is Elpseth returns as an angel. I certainly hope she does emerge from this whole thing a stronger character.
The main factor that makes me expect a more depressing return is Wizards' track record. But that aside, they have her forging her returned mask, and there was some comment that I can't remember made on I think Doug Beyer's(is that the name of the guy who answers story questions?) blog that makes me think that way too. Note, I don't think that Elspeth won't return. I just think that the way they have her come back will not be something as positive as either her becoming an angel(or taking on angelic qualities) or her being rescued by her allies.
This is one point I would love to be proven wrong on.
I love Duel Deck sets, I love both those planeswalker cards and I have a home for each of them... and they managed to not give the walkers in a DD set crappy art for once? They will have to make some incredibly poor deck lists to disappoint me this time. In fact, screw it, I'll buy one either way.
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Mark Rosewater said that the reason that they did not choose Xenagos was because such a duel deck would be too similar to Speed versus Cunning, but I fail to see how that would be the case; Speed versus Cunning was red/blue/white versus red/black/white, while Eslpeth versus Xenagos would have been white versus red/green, so how are those remotely similar?
I'm guessing he really meant Heroes vs. Monsters, which was W/R vs R/G. I can see how Elspeth vs Xenagos would be too similar
Actually, Doug stressed that she hadn't put the mask on yet when someone asked him if Elspeth was becoming a Returned, and mentioned her planeswalking again as a possibility.
I don't think she'll put the mask on, but--if she does--I suspect it would be a part of the monomythic transformation, to be followed by redemption and a true return down the line.
Mind you, putting on the mask would have a few Magic-related complications. The whole "dead, but still having a spark" deal is unexplored territory, so we don't know the full significance of certain milestones.
@DemonDragonJ: He meant Heroes vs Monsters, which was white/red and red/green.
I like the new Elspeth art, but Kiora just looks weird. maybe because the Great Wave Off Kanagawa reference isn't there and I'm so used to it. At any rate, I'm definitely interested to see what this deck has to offer for reprints/new art.
I was really expecting more of an Elspeth vs Xenagos in terms of story, but I can't really complain since I do like Kiora better anyway. I'm also curious to see whether Elspeth's deck will have plenty of nods to Bant and Kiora's to Zendikar.
Actually, Doug stressed that she hadn't put the mask on yet when someone asked him if Elspeth was becoming a Returned, and mentioned her planeswalking again as a possibility.
I don't think she'll put the mask on, but--if she does--I suspect it would be a part of the monomythic transformation, to be followed by redemption and a true return down the line.
Mind you, putting on the mask would have a few Magic-related complications. The whole "dead, but still having a spark" deal is unexplored territory, so we don't know the full significance of certain milestones.
Oh I know. I didn't mean that she had put it on, just the fact that she is making it is not a good sign. If they do have her come back as a returned and that's part of the transformation of the monomyth, to me that will fall in the "more depressing return" category I was talking about, no pun intended. I really hope they do not go that route. Elspeth has been on the recieveing end of bad stuff for far too long, in my opinion.
Am I the only one who doesn't like the background for the new planeswalkers art? Looks bland imo. I'm really not feeling these DD planeswalker arts, hated the Jace art vs Vraska
I'm so excited for this! I know I'll probably hate the deck lists but I need more of both of these walkers, they're both great cards and I love the new artwork on them.
Kiora's colors are kinda strange, as she could totally be a red/blue planeswalker with that, its just too much of that color.
Hmm. My first response to your statement was "The color of the clothes/picture doesn't equal the mana used." And while that may be true in general for magic cards, in the case of planeswalkers, they generally do use the mana color prominently in the picture. Some of them are questionable (Like Ashiok has no serious amount of blue in her picture but is a blue black walker), but for the most part, if it's not in their clothes, then the color is in the environment of the picture. So in this case the color prominence is odd since she is a blue green walker.
That said, I actually like the art. I think the redish glow is cool, like she's on the sea at sundown. Also, I like the pose more because it's more dramatic and less "dat butt" then the other picture was. (Someone said that in another thread and I couldn't stop hearing it when I looked at the card for a couple months.)
Actually, Doug stressed that she hadn't put the mask on yet when someone asked him if Elspeth was becoming a Returned, and mentioned her planeswalking again as a possibility.
I don't think she'll put the mask on, but--if she does--I suspect it would be a part of the monomythic transformation, to be followed by redemption and a true return down the line.
Mind you, putting on the mask would have a few Magic-related complications. The whole "dead, but still having a spark" deal is unexplored territory, so we don't know the full significance of certain milestones.
Oh I know. I didn't mean that she had put it on, just the fact that she is making it is not a good sign. If they do have her come back as a returned and that's part of the transformation of the monomyth, to me that will fall in the "more depressing return" category I was talking about, no pun intended. I really hope they do not go that route. Elspeth has been on the recieveing end of bad stuff for far too long, in my opinion.
Putting on the mask would most likely only be the transformation, however, with her achieving some sort of redemption that allowed her to truly return as herself.
If they could do Koth vs Venser, they can do anything. Even though they did an Uncharted Realms for Jace vs Vraska, most Duel Decks have little to no story to being with.
EDIT: the blurb in the OP does sound more 'what-if'-ish than most Duels...
Thing is, this "justification" is even lamer than Venser vs. Koth-
They're basically just saying ""Hey, Elspeth likes soldiers, but Kiora likes sea creatures. FIGHT!"
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that's Elspeth's spear crossed with Kiora's waves
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Two awesome planewalkers in a Duel Deck? I'm wondering if this is going to be a hit or a miss. I don't want to get my hopes up, but man it looks cool already.
Oh man, look at the booty in that picture. I mean, it's under several layers of clothes and armor, but yeah, totally sexualized...somewhere under there...
I'm unclear on why you expect a depressing return.
If they stick to the monomyth, we still have transformation, atonement, and return. I've seen a lot of people wondering if "transformation" will have her taking on angelic qualities, given the Bant connection. It would also be a nice parallel if Ob Nixilis does manage to get his spark back.
If they don't stick to the monomyth, more modern resurrection stories tend to depict a triumphant return from death, with greater determination and strength from having undergone that trial.
Mark Rosewater said that the reason that they did not choose Xenagos was because such a duel deck would be too similar to Speed versus Cunning, but I fail to see how that would be the case; Speed versus Cunning was red/blue/white versus red/black/white, while Eslpeth versus Xenagos would have been white versus red/green, so how are those remotely similar?
When has Elspeth ever done that? Such a pose would definitely be in-character for Liliana, but Elspeth is very modest and does not use her sex appeal to influence others (from what I know of her).
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I like you. I'm glad you are leaning more on the more positive possible outcomes. Those are the type of stories I prefer. It's funny you said that cause I was talking in another thread that what I thought should happen is Elpseth returns as an angel. I certainly hope she does emerge from this whole thing a stronger character.
The main factor that makes me expect a more depressing return is Wizards' track record. But that aside, they have her forging her returned mask, and there was some comment that I can't remember made on I think Doug Beyer's(is that the name of the guy who answers story questions?) blog that makes me think that way too. Note, I don't think that Elspeth won't return. I just think that the way they have her come back will not be something as positive as either her becoming an angel(or taking on angelic qualities) or her being rescued by her allies.
This is one point I would love to be proven wrong on.
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I'm guessing he really meant Heroes vs. Monsters, which was W/R vs R/G. I can see how Elspeth vs Xenagos would be too similar
I don't think she'll put the mask on, but--if she does--I suspect it would be a part of the monomythic transformation, to be followed by redemption and a true return down the line.
Mind you, putting on the mask would have a few Magic-related complications. The whole "dead, but still having a spark" deal is unexplored territory, so we don't know the full significance of certain milestones.
I like the new Elspeth art, but Kiora just looks weird. maybe because the Great Wave Off Kanagawa reference isn't there and I'm so used to it. At any rate, I'm definitely interested to see what this deck has to offer for reprints/new art.
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Yes, that does make more sense, and I can see how Elspeth versus Xenagos would be too similar to that.
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Soo great!!!
Oh I know. I didn't mean that she had put it on, just the fact that she is making it is not a good sign. If they do have her come back as a returned and that's part of the transformation of the monomyth, to me that will fall in the "more depressing return" category I was talking about, no pun intended. I really hope they do not go that route. Elspeth has been on the recieveing end of bad stuff for far too long, in my opinion.
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Hmm. My first response to your statement was "The color of the clothes/picture doesn't equal the mana used." And while that may be true in general for magic cards, in the case of planeswalkers, they generally do use the mana color prominently in the picture. Some of them are questionable (Like Ashiok has no serious amount of blue in her picture but is a blue black walker), but for the most part, if it's not in their clothes, then the color is in the environment of the picture. So in this case the color prominence is odd since she is a blue green walker.
That said, I actually like the art. I think the redish glow is cool, like she's on the sea at sundown. Also, I like the pose more because it's more dramatic and less "dat butt" then the other picture was. (Someone said that in another thread and I couldn't stop hearing it when I looked at the card for a couple months.)
Putting on the mask would most likely only be the transformation, however, with her achieving some sort of redemption that allowed her to truly return as herself.
Thing is, this "justification" is even lamer than Venser vs. Koth-
They're basically just saying ""Hey, Elspeth likes soldiers, but Kiora likes sea creatures. FIGHT!"
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Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
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WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
that's Elspeth's spear crossed with Kiora's waves
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Oh man, look at the booty in that picture. I mean, it's under several layers of clothes and armor, but yeah, totally sexualized...somewhere under there...
Full art for reference: