Personally, I think Elspeth's deck will play more as a white weenie deck with a soldiers theme, primarily because her abilities reflect that she wants small armies to overwhelm as opposed to large fatties. Kiora would be the opposite, featuring small dorks and card advantage creatures to ramp into huge creatures. These are just my thoughts.
Personally, I think Elspeth's deck will play more as a white weenie deck with a soldiers theme, primarily because her abilities reflect that she wants small armies to overwhelm as opposed to large fatties.
They kinda did that with the Elspeth vs Tezzeret Duel Deck. They didn't push it as much as they could have so there is some room to improve on it but I'm kinda hoping the new Elspeth deck at least splashes a second color to differentiate it from the previous version.
Personally, I think Elspeth's deck will play more as a white weenie deck with a soldiers theme, primarily because her abilities reflect that she wants small armies to overwhelm as opposed to large fatties.
They kinda did that with the Elspeth vs Tezzeret Duel Deck. They didn't push it as much as they could have so there is some room to improve on it but I'm kinda hoping the new Elspeth deck at least splashes a second color to differentiate it from the previous version.
That's fairly unlikely, I think, considering that the two colors she'd splash are Kiora's colors. While it certainly could happen, since previous decks have had overlap, given how white-centric Elspeth's build would want to be, it would be kinda farfetched.
Personally, I think Elspeth's deck will play more as a white weenie deck with a soldiers theme, primarily because her abilities reflect that she wants small armies to overwhelm as opposed to large fatties.
They kinda did that with the Elspeth vs Tezzeret Duel Deck. They didn't push it as much as they could have so there is some room to improve on it but I'm kinda hoping the new Elspeth deck at least splashes a second color to differentiate it from the previous version.
That's fairly unlikely, I think, considering that the two colors she'd splash are Kiora's colors. While it certainly could happen, since previous decks have had overlap, given how white-centric Elspeth's build would want to be, it would be kinda farfetched.
There's always red, since her army focus would work well with mechanics like Battle cry and Battalion. And she did fight alongside the Akroans just before taking second place on Heliod's Most Wanted list.
On the subject of reprints, Knight-Captain of Eos would be a dangerous reprint, as Ellie 3 provides more than enough tokens to sac to his Holy Day ability. Captain of the Watch would be a neat reprint though, along with Captain's Call, Rhox Pikemaster, and the Veteran Smith duo. We might see reprints of the Convoke cards from EvT joined by Seraph of the Masses, to give all those Soldier tokens something to do besides rush Kiora.
It occurs to me though that Elspeth is distinctly likely to gain aerial advantage either through her emblem or through the possible use of flying creatures, which means Kiora's deck is going to need some answers to fliers. Granted, both decks have to have certain weaknesses that the other deck can exploit, but losing to an overhwelming aerial assault does not sound like a fun time; Magic is at its best when players are interacting back-and-forth, alternatively playing threats and answers, keeping the game dynamic and diverse.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
There's always red, since her army focus would work well with mechanics like Battle cry and Battalion. And she did fight alongside the Akroans just before taking second place on Heliod's Most Wanted list.
That's REALLY unlikely. From a mechanical standpoint, red would want to play with her, but from a flavor standpoint, there is absolutely nothing red about Elspeth.
Just like Gideon before her, the white walker is not going to splash red just because of the company they keep.
Granted, plus burn spells would not likely be of much help against Kiora's deck barring certain exceptions. Of course red aggro is the main overlap, but Eslpeth isn't exactly a "horde of Goblins" type of walker. Most likely she'd use red Soldiers if anything, and as you indicated that's a big if.
It's a bit of a pity that Ellie doesn't do more to play with Heroic, though Ajani, Mentor of Heroes might have played a role in that. At any rate, Planeswalkers are chosen to fit creative over mechanics.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Seems to me it will be Wide versus Tall. Elspeth will be token generating and Kiora will be ramping out big creatures.
That is what I am expecting too. Elspeth's deck will probably have Hall of Triumph to pump up the tokens and be mono-white. Kiora will have cards like Explore and Kiora's Follower to help ramp into sea monsters. I don't expect cards like Remand here but I do wonder what will be the chase rare, if any, for this series? Sure the value is in the PW cards but there's usually a little something in these. Since Kiora's deck will likely be about ramp, I'm hoping hers has a Nykthos.
I encourage everyone to check out my deck list speculation in the speculation thread for these decks! I think they're pretty accurate. I went with the wide vs tall theme as well as soldier tribal, and I think they seem fairly accurate for something we could get.
That is what I am expecting too. Elspeth's deck will probably have Hall of Triumph to pump up the tokens and be mono-white. Kiora will have cards like Explore and Kiora's Follower to help ramp into sea monsters. I don't expect cards like Remand here but I do wonder what will be the chase rare, if any, for this series? Sure the value is in the PW cards but there's usually a little something in these. Since Kiora's deck will likely be about ramp, I'm hoping hers has a Nykthos.
Explore and Kiora's Follower both seem likely, the former because Kiora herself uses it as an ability and the latter because flavor. Nykthos is a little less likely as it works better in monocolor decks. I'd sooner expect Elspeth to include Nykthos and her deck isn't supposed to be ramping.
I don't think Elspeth will have a token theme, because not only is Elspeth already good against the (likely) fat creature plan of Kiora, making lots of tokens also invalidates her +1.
In order to make playing Kiora feel powerful, Elspeth herself should probably be the only token spell in the deck.
So you don't think the Planeswalker that produces tokens will have a token theme in her deck? Absolutely no other cards that produce Soldier tokens even though a Soldier token card will likely be included with the deck?
The Kiora deck will most likely compensate with bouncy effects such as Whelming Wave and Scourge of Fleets. Lure and the like might also prove helpful for forcing multiple weenies to block a fatty. And of course Kiora will likely get Fog effects, possibly even Respite.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I dunno man, I'm skeptical about soldier tribal again.
They did that last time with Elspeth, it'd be kind of boring to do it again.
The best way to look at what might be returning is to compare the 2 Jace decks.
They talked a lot about how the design of JvV was influenced by how they thought Jace's magic might have progressed.
Actually, the approximate setting for this duel would be just before Elspeth and Ajani meet Kruphix and enter Nyx. Kiora had ferried them to a lost city that was actually a massive Kraken, to which Thassa laid claim. Thassa directed the first two to Kruphix while preparing to deal with Kiora. This duel has about as much basis as Elspeth vs. Tezzeret or Venser vs. Koth. I'm afraid it is not evidence whatsoever of Elspeth still being alive.
But take heart: If Theros' underworld is anything like Hades of Greek Myth, there may be a chance of Elspeth escaping. She'd best do so before putting on the gold mask, however, else she will likely lose her Planeswalker spark and memories due to becoming a Returned, a fate worse than death. Popular fan theory and hope is that she will ultimately ascend to godhood thanks to Ajani spreading tales of her heroism to the Therans, thereby escaping the underworld and avoiding zombiefication. After all, Greek myth told of a hero who died, then ascended to the heavens as a god. His name was Heracles (or Hercules if you follow pop culture).
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Actually, the approximate setting for this duel would be just before Elspeth and Ajani meet Kruphix and enter Nyx. Kiora had ferried them to a lost city that was actually a massive Kraken, to which Thassa laid claim. Thassa directed the first two to Kruphix while preparing to deal with Kiora. This duel has about as much basis as Elspeth vs. Tezzeret or Venser vs. Koth. I'm afraid it is not evidence whatsoever of Elspeth still being alive.
But take heart: If Theros' underworld is anything like Hades of Greek Myth, there may be a chance of Elspeth escaping. She'd best do so before putting on the gold mask, however, else she will likely lose her Planeswalker spark and memories due to becoming a Returned, a fate worse than death. Popular fan theory and hope is that she will ultimately ascend to godhood thanks to Ajani spreading tales of her heroism to the Therans, thereby escaping the underworld and avoiding zombiefication. After all, Greek myth told of a hero who died, then ascended to the heavens as a god. His name was Heracles (or Hercules if you follow pop culture).
They could also come up with a story where Elspeth is sent on the request of Thassa from the Underworld to stop Kiora from taking Thassa's krakens. I dunno, the creative side of this Duel Decks is definitely an afterthought to Wizards.
Just like Elspeth vs. Tezzeret and Venser vs. Koth.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I figured Elspeth vs. Kiora was how the latter duped Elspeth (Ajani suspected, in Godsend, that something was off) into taking the Monsoon as the only way to arrive at Arixmethes. So it's sort of like battle of the minds I guess.
Based on the scaling influx of players that come in with every subsequent set, it's fair to assume that a significant portion of Magic players weren't around when Elspeth vs Tezzeret came out. I know that it seems like they just dropped yesterday to a lot of us veterans, but since every Magic block sells better than the last, it's impossible to ignore the huge population of relatively new players, to whom Elspeth's previous DD means nothing. I think a monowhite token theme makes the most sense, and that we'll get that again when these come out, and underwhelm us all.
Mobilization would be a neat reprint, not only as an additional source of Soldier tokens but also as a way of tying into Theros' enchantment theme without simply reprinting enchantments from Theros. Luminarch Ascension would be sweet too since Elspeth will likely have access to Angel tokens, but being able to produce tokens of that size in such a quick manner against a deck that won't likely get a lot of damage in early might be too much.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
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This is probably the most realistic statement.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
A Blue/Green fatty with evasion and Regeneration, yes please.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
That's fairly unlikely, I think, considering that the two colors she'd splash are Kiora's colors. While it certainly could happen, since previous decks have had overlap, given how white-centric Elspeth's build would want to be, it would be kinda farfetched.
There's always red, since her army focus would work well with mechanics like Battle cry and Battalion. And she did fight alongside the Akroans just before taking second place on Heliod's Most Wanted list.
On the subject of reprints, Knight-Captain of Eos would be a dangerous reprint, as Ellie 3 provides more than enough tokens to sac to his Holy Day ability. Captain of the Watch would be a neat reprint though, along with Captain's Call, Rhox Pikemaster, and the Veteran Smith duo. We might see reprints of the Convoke cards from EvT joined by Seraph of the Masses, to give all those Soldier tokens something to do besides rush Kiora.
It occurs to me though that Elspeth is distinctly likely to gain aerial advantage either through her emblem or through the possible use of flying creatures, which means Kiora's deck is going to need some answers to fliers. Granted, both decks have to have certain weaknesses that the other deck can exploit, but losing to an overhwelming aerial assault does not sound like a fun time; Magic is at its best when players are interacting back-and-forth, alternatively playing threats and answers, keeping the game dynamic and diverse.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Just like Gideon before her, the white walker is not going to splash red just because of the company they keep.
It's a bit of a pity that Ellie doesn't do more to play with Heroic, though Ajani, Mentor of Heroes might have played a role in that. At any rate, Planeswalkers are chosen to fit creative over mechanics.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
That is what I am expecting too. Elspeth's deck will probably have Hall of Triumph to pump up the tokens and be mono-white. Kiora will have cards like Explore and Kiora's Follower to help ramp into sea monsters. I don't expect cards like Remand here but I do wonder what will be the chase rare, if any, for this series? Sure the value is in the PW cards but there's usually a little something in these. Since Kiora's deck will likely be about ramp, I'm hoping hers has a Nykthos.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Hall of Triumph has a strong memorial feel to it, and at any rate she'd more likely use Glorious Anthem or Honor of the Pure to follow up Crusade. Furthermore, her deck really wants a Soldier tribal theme, which Veteran Armorsmith, Veteran Swordsmith, Rhox Pikemaster, and Captain of the Watch would all be really good at supporting.
Explore and Kiora's Follower both seem likely, the former because Kiora herself uses it as an ability and the latter because flavor. Nykthos is a little less likely as it works better in monocolor decks. I'd sooner expect Elspeth to include Nykthos and her deck isn't supposed to be ramping.
So you don't think the Planeswalker that produces tokens will have a token theme in her deck? Absolutely no other cards that produce Soldier tokens even though a Soldier token card will likely be included with the deck?
The Kiora deck will most likely compensate with bouncy effects such as Whelming Wave and Scourge of Fleets. Lure and the like might also prove helpful for forcing multiple weenies to block a fatty. And of course Kiora will likely get Fog effects, possibly even Respite.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
They did that last time with Elspeth, it'd be kind of boring to do it again.
Level 1 Judge
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The best way to look at what might be returning is to compare the 2 Jace decks.
They talked a lot about how the design of JvV was influenced by how they thought Jace's magic might have progressed.
perhaps tall elspleth vs tall kiora.
My Decks:
All my Decks are budget
EDH:GRWHazezon TamarGRW, RKazuul, Tyrant of the CliffsR, BMikaeus, the UnhallowedB, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GRXenagos, God of RevelsGR, BGPharika, God of AfflictionBG
Standard:BMono Black Control(devotion)B- retired
Casual:UWHeroicUW, UGWall tribalUG, BPhylactery LichB
Modern:UBAbyssal PersecutorUB, WKnight TribalW
But take heart: If Theros' underworld is anything like Hades of Greek Myth, there may be a chance of Elspeth escaping. She'd best do so before putting on the gold mask, however, else she will likely lose her Planeswalker spark and memories due to becoming a Returned, a fate worse than death. Popular fan theory and hope is that she will ultimately ascend to godhood thanks to Ajani spreading tales of her heroism to the Therans, thereby escaping the underworld and avoiding zombiefication. After all, Greek myth told of a hero who died, then ascended to the heavens as a god. His name was Heracles (or Hercules if you follow pop culture).
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
They could also come up with a story where Elspeth is sent on the request of Thassa from the Underworld to stop Kiora from taking Thassa's krakens. I dunno, the creative side of this Duel Decks is definitely an afterthought to Wizards.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
When. Will. This. Be. Spoiled. omggg.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.