Is Bolas necessarily even planning anything with regards to the Eldrazis when he killed Ulgin? 1000 years ago is pre-mending, Bolas doesn't know he's gonna get depowered and will be carrying out whatever scheme he's currently pursuing to regain power.
Guys, this is super relevant.
Any Planeswalkers that appear in this set will either be pre-mending, which I believe they've said is a power level which cannot be represented in the game (?),
or they are "stowaways" from the Present to avoid that problem.
How do you think they will handle this?
Will they dare to print Ugin or (gulp) Bolas at pre-mending power levels?
Will they cheap out and just print them as if they were post-mending?
Will they throw in some random "stowaway" character as mentioned before?
Maybe just no PW cards in FRF at all?
EDIT: I suppose Teferi, Temporal Archmage and Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury prove they have come to terms with printing Oldwalkers in card form,
but would they do this in a Standard set?
Maybe for Ugin, but I doubt we'll get a fully-powered Bolas card that's Standard legal (if ever!)
Barinellos knows a lot more about this, but the impression I get is something like:
Nicol Bolas, Scourge of Dominia 10RRBBBUU
Planeswalker - Bolas
+10 - Overwhelming Forces + Wit's End
-5 - Gain control of all permanents. Shuffle all Graveyards, Hands, and Libraries into your Library
(these effects do not end when the game is over).
-20 - Exile any number of target Players. (they don't just lose- they actually disappear forever and you suddenly find yourself the prime suspect in a multiple kidnapping/murder investigation)
Starting Loyalty 1 (can we go less than one without it dying immediately?)
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
which I believe they've said is a power level which cannot be represented in the game (?),
No, just look at Teferi and Freyalise in Commander 2014. The Planeswalker card type has always avoided the issue of planeswalker power level by its use of loyalty (not to mention the fact that the player has always represented a planeswalker yourself and the power level of players didn't change during the Mending). The introduction of this card type shares a common cause with the lowering of planeswalker power level (namely the effort to increase the presence of planeswalkers in the story), one did not cause the other. Honestly, they've actually printed pre-Mending planeswalker cards now, why won't this misunderstanding die?
which I believe they've said is a power level which cannot be represented in the game (?),
No, just look at Teferi and Freyalise in Commander 2014. The Planeswalker card type has always avoided the issue of planeswalker power level by its use of loyalty (not to mention the fact that the player has always represented a planeswalker yourself and the power level of players didn't change during the Mending). The introduction of this card type shares a common cause with the lowering of planeswalker power level (namely the effort to increase the presence of planeswalkers in the story), one did not cause the other. Honestly, they've actually printed pre-Mending planeswalker cards now, why won't this misunderstanding die?
Someone needs to read entire posts before reacting- I added the bit about Teferi and Freyalise right after I first made that post.
I also mentioned the Loyalty issue in my incredibly balanced Bolas design
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
which I believe they've said is a power level which cannot be represented in the game (?),
No, just look at Teferi and Freyalise in Commander 2014. The Planeswalker card type has always avoided the issue of planeswalker power level by its use of loyalty (not to mention the fact that the player has always represented a planeswalker yourself and the power level of players didn't change during the Mending). The introduction of this card type shares a common cause with the lowering of planeswalker power level (namely the effort to increase the presence of planeswalkers in the story), one did not cause the other. Honestly, they've actually printed pre-Mending planeswalker cards now, why won't this misunderstanding die?
Someone needs to read entire posts before reacting- I added the bit about Teferi and Freyalise right after I first made that post.
You acknowledged the existence of the cards that undermine the entire premise of your post, but you did not substantially change the content of your post in doing so. There's no problem with putting pre-Mending planeswalkers on cards and there never has been. It's not a matter of Standard legality as you suggest. There is certainly no issue of power level. I may be overly hasty but if nobody dispels these myths then people will continue to assume things that have never been true.
which I believe they've said is a power level which cannot be represented in the game (?),
No, just look at Teferi and Freyalise in Commander 2014. The Planeswalker card type has always avoided the issue of planeswalker power level by its use of loyalty (not to mention the fact that the player has always represented a planeswalker yourself and the power level of players didn't change during the Mending). The introduction of this card type shares a common cause with the lowering of planeswalker power level (namely the effort to increase the presence of planeswalkers in the story), one did not cause the other. Honestly, they've actually printed pre-Mending planeswalker cards now, why won't this misunderstanding die?
Someone needs to read entire posts before reacting- I added the bit about Teferi and Freyalise right after I first made that post.
You acknowledged the existence of the cards that undermine the entire premise of your post, but you did not substantially change the content of your post in doing so. There's no problem with putting pre-Mending planeswalkers on cards and there never has been. It's not a matter of Standard legality as you suggest. There is certainly no issue of power level. I may be overly hasty but if nobody dispels these myths then people will continue to assume things that have never been true.
What you say is true to a point, but I seriously doubt they will ever print a pre-mending Bolas.
His destructive power was beyond anything currently printed, and is arguably on par with
(or even stronger than) Urza or Yawgmoth
(feel free to step in here and comment, Barinellos- you need your own signal akin to Batman's).
That's why I said I could see pre-mending Ugin, but Bolas would surprise me very heavily,
even though they more or less *have* to address him in some way.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
which I believe they've said is a power level which cannot be represented in the game (?),
No, just look at Teferi and Freyalise in Commander 2014. The Planeswalker card type has always avoided the issue of planeswalker power level by its use of loyalty (not to mention the fact that the player has always represented a planeswalker yourself and the power level of players didn't change during the Mending). The introduction of this card type shares a common cause with the lowering of planeswalker power level (namely the effort to increase the presence of planeswalkers in the story), one did not cause the other. Honestly, they've actually printed pre-Mending planeswalker cards now, why won't this misunderstanding die?
Someone needs to read entire posts before reacting- I added the bit about Teferi and Freyalise right after I first made that post.
You acknowledged the existence of the cards that undermine the entire premise of your post, but you did not substantially change the content of your post in doing so. There's no problem with putting pre-Mending planeswalkers on cards and there never has been. It's not a matter of Standard legality as you suggest. There is certainly no issue of power level. I may be overly hasty but if nobody dispels these myths then people will continue to assume things that have never been true.
What you say is true to a point, but I seriously doubt they will ever print a pre-mending Bolas.
His destructive power was beyond anything currently printed, and is arguably on par with
(or even stronger than) Urza or Yawgmoth
(feel free to step in here and comment, Barinellos- you need your own signal akin to Batman's).
That's why I said I could see pre-mending Ugin, but Bolas would surprise me very heavily,
even though they more or less *have* to address him in some way.
No, the loyalty mechanic resolves this. It doesn't make any difference how much raw power Bolas or any other planeswalker has, what matters is what he's willing to do for you. Jace is not the most powerful character of the modern cast, because card power is not related to character power. There is no need to cram intentionally absurd power into Bolas just because he was a powerful character.
By the way, crossing out the line about pre-Mending walkers being too powerful to print does not change the fact that the remainder of your post takes such a thing as given any more than including a throwaway line about Teferi and Freyalise changes that. I don't think you should continue to alter that post (no sense in changing an old post in response to later posts) but there is really nothing in it that is not made moot by the acknowledgement that pre-Mending planeswalkers can in fact be printed. Acknowledging that fact and yet leaving the remainder of the post untouched gives a bizarre and contradictory impression.
So the alternate art cards for Elspeth vs. Kiora are the 4 shown. But the mountain erupting from the ocean is not a land, but a spell. While the one with Kiora jumping out of the ocean with the city behind her is a land (as far as the presenter recalls). Weird. I would have expected it to be the other way around.
The only thing that I kinda find annoying with this whole "time travel" story is the fact that the sentient beings of Tarkir haven't evolved in 1000 years!
Temur are living in huts and chilling with bears (pun intended). Thousand years before they were doing the same stuff, only with saber-tooth tigers. They didn't invent anything all these years? If Khans had guys with rifles and cannons, then Fate Reforged would be much more cooler seeing them fighting with spears and clubs. But Magic is against guns, so no hope for seeing that. So... why 1000 years? Why not 500?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
Lot's of interesting stuff in that panel. I love listening to Aaron, he's funny, knows a lot about what's going on within R&D, and is not as tight-lipped as other designers and developers (I guess that's the kind of liberty you can afford when you're the boss!) It's a shame he isn't as public as Maro. Also, that person who initially reported that Tamiyo would replace Jace was exaggerating a bit... but it's still nice to know she'll be back.
The only thing that I kinda find annoying with this whole "time travel" story is the fact that the sentient beings of Tarkir haven't evolved in 1000 years!
Temur are living in huts and chilling with bears (pun intended). Thousand years before they were doing the same stuff, only with saber-tooth tigers. They didn't invent anything all these years? If Khans had guys with rifles and cannons, then Fate Reforged would be much more cooler seeing them fighting with spears and clubs. But Magic is against guns, so no hope for seeing that. So... why 1000 years? Why not 500?
I thought of that too at first, but then I remembered technological evolution has never been anywhere near as fast as it's been this last century. I mean, was the 13th century really that much more advanced than the 3rd? Was the Mongol Empire that much more advanced than the Roman Empire? I'm no history buff by any means, but I doubt it.
Can someone tell me if the set will be before the mending? Because they are going back in time quite a while. It wasn't too long ago the mending happened.
Yes, 1000 years ago is pre-mending.
It could definitely have interesting ramifications for the PW card(s?) in the set.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
The only thing that I kinda find annoying with this whole "time travel" story is the fact that the sentient beings of Tarkir haven't evolved in 1000 years!
Temur are living in huts and chilling with bears (pun intended). Thousand years before they were doing the same stuff, only with saber-tooth tigers. They didn't invent anything all these years? If Khans had guys with rifles and cannons, then Fate Reforged would be much more cooler seeing them fighting with spears and clubs. But Magic is against guns, so no hope for seeing that. So... why 1000 years? Why not 500?
This is a pretty simplistic view of history, not to mention a misuse of the word "evolution". Even today there exist hunter-gatherer cultures in areas that are difficult for westerners to reach or that are intentionally avoided so that these cultures may be preserved. Even if we imagine that history is an inevitable march of progress that always takes exactly the same amount of time for every culture to reach each predefined technology level, the Neolithic in Europe historically lasted several thousands of years so it's perfectly reasonable that the Temur could remain in the stone age for over a thousand years.
The only thing that I kinda find annoying with this whole "time travel" story is the fact that the sentient beings of Tarkir haven't evolved in 1000 years!
Temur are living in huts and chilling with bears (pun intended). Thousand years before they were doing the same stuff, only with saber-tooth tigers. They didn't invent anything all these years? If Khans had guys with rifles and cannons, then Fate Reforged would be much more cooler seeing them fighting with spears and clubs. But Magic is against guns, so no hope for seeing that. So... why 1000 years? Why not 500?
This is a pretty simplistic view of history, not to mention a misuse of the word "evolution". Even today there exist hunter-gatherer cultures in areas that are difficult for westerners to reach or that are intentionally avoided so that these cultures may be preserved. Even if we imagine that history is an inevitable march of progress that always takes exactly the same amount of time for every culture to reach each predefined technology level, the Neolithic in Europe historically lasted several thousands of years so it's perfectly reasonable that the Temur could remain in the stone age for over a thousand years.
I would add that, technological advancement is dependant in alot of factors, not just time, but things like environment, how people organize themselves or what they believe in, among many other.
The only thing that I kinda find annoying with this whole "time travel" story is the fact that the sentient beings of Tarkir haven't evolved in 1000 years!
Temur are living in huts and chilling with bears (pun intended). Thousand years before they were doing the same stuff, only with saber-tooth tigers. They didn't invent anything all these years? If Khans had guys with rifles and cannons, then Fate Reforged would be much more cooler seeing them fighting with spears and clubs. But Magic is against guns, so no hope for seeing that. So... why 1000 years? Why not 500?
This is a pretty simplistic view of history, not to mention a misuse of the word "evolution". Even today there exist hunter-gatherer cultures in areas that are difficult for westerners to reach or that are intentionally avoided so that these cultures may be preserved. Even if we imagine that history is an inevitable march of progress that always takes exactly the same amount of time for every culture to reach each predefined technology level, the Neolithic in Europe historically lasted several thousands of years so it's perfectly reasonable that the Temur could remain in the stone age for over a thousand years.
I would add that, technological advancement is dependant in alot of factors, not just time, but things like environment, how people organize themselves or what they believe in, among many other.
No, it's cause it's a card game. A card game. Go ahead and mull that over for a minute m'kay? Jesus...
Public Mod Note
(Wildfire393):
Flaming/Trolling infraction issued
The only thing that I kinda find annoying with this whole "time travel" story is the fact that the sentient beings of Tarkir haven't evolved in 1000 years!
Temur are living in huts and chilling with bears (pun intended). Thousand years before they were doing the same stuff, only with saber-tooth tigers. They didn't invent anything all these years? If Khans had guys with rifles and cannons, then Fate Reforged would be much more cooler seeing them fighting with spears and clubs. But Magic is against guns, so no hope for seeing that. So... why 1000 years? Why not 500?
A valid question. But it is true that the evolution of innovation was very rapid in recent history than ever before as mentioned. That and I suppose MTG takes place in a universe where magic exists, which makes life easier for them in general. I suppose they see no reason to really evolve anything but their magic. That and it seems like there is always a lot of conflict which probably hinders the ability of sentient beings to evolve advanced civilization. Then you have places like Theros where people depends entirely on gods rather than themselves.
The only thing that I kinda find annoying with this whole "time travel" story is the fact that the sentient beings of Tarkir haven't evolved in 1000 years!
Temur are living in huts and chilling with bears (pun intended). Thousand years before they were doing the same stuff, only with saber-tooth tigers. They didn't invent anything all these years? If Khans had guys with rifles and cannons, then Fate Reforged would be much more cooler seeing them fighting with spears and clubs. But Magic is against guns, so no hope for seeing that. So... why 1000 years? Why not 500?
This is a pretty simplistic view of history, not to mention a misuse of the word "evolution". Even today there exist hunter-gatherer cultures in areas that are difficult for westerners to reach or that are intentionally avoided so that these cultures may be preserved. Even if we imagine that history is an inevitable march of progress that always takes exactly the same amount of time for every culture to reach each predefined technology level, the Neolithic in Europe historically lasted several thousands of years so it's perfectly reasonable that the Temur could remain in the stone age for over a thousand years.
I would add that, technological advancement is dependant in alot of factors, not just time, but things like environment, how people organize themselves or what they believe in, among many other.
No, it's cause it's a card game. A card game. Go ahead and mull that over for a minute m'kay? Jesus...
Wow, what prompted that? Are you trying to argue that Magic doesn't have a rich and compelling story and even if so why the condescending attitude to those of us who think it does?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Good to have you back! Was wondering if the fetchlands reprint had put you into hibernation for good.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Guys, this is super relevant.
Any Planeswalkers that appear in this set will either be pre-mending,
which I believe they've said is a power level which cannot be represented in the game (?),or they are "stowaways" from the Present to avoid that problem.
How do you think they will handle this?
Will they dare to print Ugin or (gulp) Bolas at pre-mending power levels?
Will they cheap out and just print them as if they were post-mending?
Will they throw in some random "stowaway" character as mentioned before?
Maybe just no PW cards in FRF at all?
EDIT: I suppose Teferi, Temporal Archmage and Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury prove they have come to terms with printing Oldwalkers in card form,
but would they do this in a Standard set?
Maybe for Ugin, but I doubt we'll get a fully-powered Bolas card that's Standard legal (if ever!)
Barinellos knows a lot more about this, but the impression I get is something like:
Nicol Bolas, Scourge of Dominia 10RRBBBUU
Planeswalker - Bolas
+10 - Overwhelming Forces + Wit's End
-5 - Gain control of all permanents. Shuffle all Graveyards, Hands, and Libraries into your Library
(these effects do not end when the game is over).
-20 - Exile any number of target Players. (they don't just lose- they actually disappear forever and you suddenly find yourself the prime suspect in a multiple kidnapping/murder investigation)
Starting Loyalty 1 (can we go less than one without it dying immediately?)
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
No, just look at Teferi and Freyalise in Commander 2014. The Planeswalker card type has always avoided the issue of planeswalker power level by its use of loyalty (not to mention the fact that the player has always represented a planeswalker yourself and the power level of players didn't change during the Mending). The introduction of this card type shares a common cause with the lowering of planeswalker power level (namely the effort to increase the presence of planeswalkers in the story), one did not cause the other. Honestly, they've actually printed pre-Mending planeswalker cards now, why won't this misunderstanding die?
Someone needs to read entire posts before reacting- I added the bit about Teferi and Freyalise right after I first made that post.
I also mentioned the Loyalty issue in my incredibly balanced Bolas design
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
You acknowledged the existence of the cards that undermine the entire premise of your post, but you did not substantially change the content of your post in doing so. There's no problem with putting pre-Mending planeswalkers on cards and there never has been. It's not a matter of Standard legality as you suggest. There is certainly no issue of power level. I may be overly hasty but if nobody dispels these myths then people will continue to assume things that have never been true.
What you say is true to a point, but I seriously doubt they will ever print a pre-mending Bolas.
His destructive power was beyond anything currently printed, and is arguably on par with
(or even stronger than) Urza or Yawgmoth
(feel free to step in here and comment, Barinellos- you need your own signal akin to Batman's).
That's why I said I could see pre-mending Ugin, but Bolas would surprise me very heavily,
even though they more or less *have* to address him in some way.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
No, the loyalty mechanic resolves this. It doesn't make any difference how much raw power Bolas or any other planeswalker has, what matters is what he's willing to do for you. Jace is not the most powerful character of the modern cast, because card power is not related to character power. There is no need to cram intentionally absurd power into Bolas just because he was a powerful character.
By the way, crossing out the line about pre-Mending walkers being too powerful to print does not change the fact that the remainder of your post takes such a thing as given any more than including a throwaway line about Teferi and Freyalise changes that. I don't think you should continue to alter that post (no sense in changing an old post in response to later posts) but there is really nothing in it that is not made moot by the acknowledgement that pre-Mending planeswalkers can in fact be printed. Acknowledging that fact and yet leaving the remainder of the post untouched gives a bizarre and contradictory impression.
I've taken some screenshots for better images of the cards.
Something I didn't notice before: Aaron Forsythe says the Ugin's Fate booster will contain alt-art cards for both KTK and FRF, not just KTK.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Temur are living in huts and chilling with bears (pun intended). Thousand years before they were doing the same stuff, only with saber-tooth tigers. They didn't invent anything all these years? If Khans had guys with rifles and cannons, then Fate Reforged would be much more cooler seeing them fighting with spears and clubs. But Magic is against guns, so no hope for seeing that. So... why 1000 years? Why not 500?
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
I thought of that too at first, but then I remembered technological evolution has never been anywhere near as fast as it's been this last century. I mean, was the 13th century really that much more advanced than the 3rd? Was the Mongol Empire that much more advanced than the Roman Empire? I'm no history buff by any means, but I doubt it.
Yes, 1000 years ago is pre-mending.
It could definitely have interesting ramifications for the PW card(s?) in the set.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
This is a pretty simplistic view of history, not to mention a misuse of the word "evolution". Even today there exist hunter-gatherer cultures in areas that are difficult for westerners to reach or that are intentionally avoided so that these cultures may be preserved. Even if we imagine that history is an inevitable march of progress that always takes exactly the same amount of time for every culture to reach each predefined technology level, the Neolithic in Europe historically lasted several thousands of years so it's perfectly reasonable that the Temur could remain in the stone age for over a thousand years.
No, it's cause it's a card game. A card game. Go ahead and mull that over for a minute m'kay? Jesus...
A valid question. But it is true that the evolution of innovation was very rapid in recent history than ever before as mentioned. That and I suppose MTG takes place in a universe where magic exists, which makes life easier for them in general. I suppose they see no reason to really evolve anything but their magic. That and it seems like there is always a lot of conflict which probably hinders the ability of sentient beings to evolve advanced civilization. Then you have places like Theros where people depends entirely on gods rather than themselves.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Wow, what prompted that? Are you trying to argue that Magic doesn't have a rich and compelling story and even if so why the condescending attitude to those of us who think it does?