After looking at the article, I'm a little irritated at Song of the Dryads. It's a color-shifted Arrest, and LSV uses to cards that also shouldn't exist as a precedent/justification for it (Desert Twister and Path to Exile)
Not sure how dudes like this work in R&D
I think it's the second best card in the Green deck, actually. It's not "Arrest;" its a green Oblivion Ring. Thats very good.
The one time they decide to not do triple oversized foils is the one time my general of four years gets included in a commander product as one of the three legends. THE OPPORTUNITY WAS THERE.
Wizards clearly hates me and doesn't want me to cut up about 20 Kembas for a giant life counter. ;-;
After looking at the article, I'm a little irritated at Song of the Dryads. It's a color-shifted Arrest, and LSV uses to cards that also shouldn't exist as a precedent/justification for it (Desert Twister and Path to Exile)
Not sure how dudes like this work in R&D
I agree that it is a slap to the face of the color wheel, but they did print beast within in standard and that's a far far worse offender. This is a rare that will be only available in a handful of products, so not much to worry about. It's not like lignify was broken or anything.
If I understand how it works Volcanic Impact is insane.
Hard to say. It doesn't say "another." Can your opponent just choose the same thing you chose? If so, it's a hell of a lot less exciting.
That would make a lot less exciting for vintage/legacy. It's still not a bad card but probably not good enough for five mana. Idaknow.
But in multiplayer they'd probably choose different targets. That's two creatures and two nonbasics destroyed at instant speed for five. Feels awesome.
Song of the Dryads seems to be the best commander hate there is. Perhaps besides tuck effects... Even so I'd prefer this over Oblation and Chaos Warp.
Compared to Lignify: A forest is much harder to get rid of than a creature. Most EDH decks have sac outlets or can just block. Plus Lignify only enchants creatures.
Compared to Beast Within: In most cases I'd rather give my opponent a 3/3 than a free land. But Beast Within puts commanders back to the command zone, so I'd prefer Song of the Dryads. And unlike Beast Within, Song stops gods and other indestructibles.
EDIT: For Volcanic Offering, the opponent can choose the same targets. So in 1v1, it's essentially 2-for-1, not 4-for-1.
Rule 114.3. The same target can't be chosen multiple times for any one instance of the word "target" on a spell or ability. If the spell or ability uses the word "target" in multiple places, the same object, player, or zone can be chosen once for each instance of the word "target" (as long as it fits the targeting criteria). This rule applies both when choosing targets for a spell or ability and when changing targets or choosing new targets for a spell or ability (see rule 114.6).
If Wizards didn't want one of the decks to be much more valuable than all of the others (a la Mind Seize), they probably screwed up royally in my opinion. Red just seems to have so much more value than the others.
After looking at the article, I'm a little irritated at Song of the Dryads. It's a color-shifted Arrest, and LSV uses to cards that also shouldn't exist as a precedent/justification for it (Desert Twister and Path to Exile)
Not sure how dudes like this work in R&D
It irritates me more that every time green gets something that isn't a creature, ramp, or disenchant; or red gets anything that isn't direct damage or a watered down "blue effect" (TEMPORARY stealing, BAD filtering, OVERCOSTED flyers), Maro throws a tantrum about color pie purity, but blue or black can get literally anything and it's "well that's ok because they can have that" (blue's bonkers aggro creatures, Reef Worm, Pongify/Hybridization)
Why is everyone hating on the blue deck? It is as Timmy as it gets! RELEASE THE KRAKENS!
It's not that the blue deck isn't strong. It is. The problem that many have with it is the fact that it's not really interesting or exciting in terms of design. The problem may lie in the common perception that blue generally always gets amazing stuff, while colors like red generally get hosed. This time red is getting is just due and blue is getting what could be considered the status quo blue stuff. In my opinion the blue deck is fine. The red deck however, is amazeballs!
Edited for autocorrect shenanigans and bad grammar.
These are the first pre-cons in a long time that don't seem like watered down versions of a good idea. These feel like cohesive 75% commander decks that are fun to play, or play against.
Well done, wizards. Well done.
People forget very quickly how well both Deveri and Prossh played out of the box and fleshed out the idea of the deck. I don't think these are that much better than last year and still worse than year 1 of Commander.
If we're being honest the Commander Planeswalkers are below the standard everyone was expecting, there are no Deveri or Kaalia here, no breakout Commanders.
The commanders are relatively weaker than the past years, but you're crazy if you don't think that the decks are much better and cohesive then past years. There are so many playable, and even staple cards. I'm usually pessimistic, but i am impressed this time.
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Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
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Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Only odd thing about the blue deck is what do you do with teferi's ultimate when teferi is your only walker? Guess you get to activate teferi a bunch but it would have been nice to see jace beleren in there or something. Overall big fan of the lists. Love that welder is in.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
My problem with the green deck is that while I do want Freyalise, it's kind of pointless for me to buy the deck when I already have an Ezuri elfball deck with all of the good elves.
The red and white decks are amazing, head and shoulders above the other three.
After looking at the article, I'm a little irritated at Song of the Dryads. It's a color-shifted Arrest, and LSV uses to cards that also shouldn't exist as a precedent/justification for it (Desert Twister and Path to Exile)
This card is BETTER than Arrest. It is a decent replacement for Beast Within and that card ain't no JOKE. I am pretty blown away by this new one.
Also gonna try out Incite Rebellion as a potential sub for Blasphemous Act in my Viashino deck. I'm actually kinda surprised they put such similar cards in the same precon but whatever.
There is quite a lot of quality in these decks. I'm pretty impressed.
I am kinda bummed we did NOT get a third NemesisCard this time though. Come on, MaRo..you know how much we like our cycles!!
the decklists seem very good, Blasphemous Act is likely there to synergies with the highest damage spell (for an additional 13 damage to distribute, cause there is never more then enough damage). True no Nemesis card this time, there is always time in the future to continue it.
1. Green deck is Elf Tribal?! Gross...so gross....I hate elf tribal so much. After the black deck was spoiled, I was looking forward to the Green deck the most and it's the most disappointing of the bunch to me. I don't really like the blue deck either. Seems like a lot of random morphs without Ixidor. Seems pretty meh and random. Black deck wasn't exciting either.
2. I never thought I would say this, but I think the Red deck is my favorite...
3. NO PLANESWALKERS IN TEFERI'S DECK WHAAAAT?! The general has an ultimate involving Planeswalkers and Wizards doesn't include even one other walker in the deck? Not even a lowly Jace Beleren? No Tamiyo? Neither are expensive! Tezzeret the Seeker would have been pretty nice here. That's really disappointing and doesn't make any sense. It's not like they never put a planeswalker in an EDH precon before!
Now! Onto the good and bad with reprints! First of all, despite me not getting some of my most-wanted reprints (quite a few that REALLY should have been in these decks), I am very happy with some of the cards Wizards did choose to reprint. Extremely happy to see the following:
-Wurmcoil Engine (Always wanted more but this card generally stayed expensive. My only copies are stuck in my Modern deck)
-Grave Titan
-Solemn Simulacrum (I seriously need like 5 of these guys!)
-Thran Dynamo (only ever owned two and one's in bad shape)
-Worn Powerstone (Another nice, rare mana rock)
-Oblation (actually need it for two of my decks)
-Chaos Warp (Same as above. This one definitely needed another showing!)
-Return To Dust (Ran out of these)
-Grand Abolisher (can never have enough of this guy)
-Rite of Replication (ran out because they go in every blue deck)
-Reliquary Tower
-Caged Sun
-Tectonic Edge (needed some for modern)
-Goblin Welder (Cool card that's never been reprinted outside of judge promo. Will be nice to have access to it if I ever decide to build artifact shenanigans)
-Sol Ring (obviously)
-Beetleback Chief (super rare uncommon with only one printing. About time it got a reprint)
-Junk Diver (Always wanted one of these for some reason. Cool reprint)
-Mobilization (Accidentally traded my last copy to a friend)
-Sacred Mesa (Amazing new art! Plus this means Pegasus Token?!)
-Sun Titan (Always nice to have some extras)
New cards that really made me happy (and weren't previously spoiled):
-Comeuppance (Oh my god. My favorite types of spells are damage-reflecting ones. This card is brutal and I love that it protects planeswalkers!)
-Wolfcaller's Howl (FAVORITE CARD HANDS DOWN. Love the art, love the name, wolf token spam...one step closer to a wolf tribal deck)
-Well of Ideas (This card just seems flat out ridiculous. Too bad I gave up on Nekusar! Maybe I'll put it into Pheldagriff)
-Lifeblood Hydra (Hey, more hydras, who would have guessed! this one actually does interesting and good things, though! Just watch out for Swords)
-Containment Priest (Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. At first I thought this card just flat-out exiled ANY nontoken creature that ETB. Still awesome, though. Hoses so many "cheat into play" cards and strategies. Also shuts down Derevi. )
-Song of the Dryads (Ahahah. I don't think Green has gotten one of these since Lignify. Always a fun effect, and being able to shut down any permanent is great. Also insta-forestwalk. :D)
Overall, I'm not as thrilled as I was with the previous two EDH sets, but perhaps that's because I was still new to the format when the first set came out and I'm a sucker for multicolor. Unlike the last two times, I don't think I'll be picking up every deck. I'll probably get the Red and White ones only and pick up singles I need from the other three.
That said, I'm sad that we didn't get to see any of these cards reprinted:
AND [card]Sylvan Library[card] would have been an amazing reprint why wasn't it reprinted here?
Here's hoping Wizards finds a way to reprint these (soon). Quite a few of them are EDH staples and seriously overdue for reprints (I know STP was in Conspiracy, I'm not including it in the "desperately needs a reprint" category The DD Anthologies isn't really going to help make Demonic Tutor cheaper and more available[/card] ).
-Beetleback Chief (super rare uncommon with only one printing. About time it got a reprint)
-Junk Diver (Always wanted one of these for some reason. Cool reprint)
Minor nitpick, but Beetleback is also in Speed versus Cunning, btw.
Here's a quick summary of relative prices through TCGPlayer. Keep in mind that these prices will surely fall as people acquire the decks. Also note that none of the new cards are represented here. TCGPlayer simply doesn't have individual prices for them yet.
-Beetleback Chief (super rare uncommon with only one printing. About time it got a reprint)
-Junk Diver (Always wanted one of these for some reason. Cool reprint)
Minor nitpick, but Beetleback is also in Speed versus Cunning, btw.
Oh. Well that was like the worst DD ever so I didn't buy it.
Has wizards posted images of all the tokens anywhere?
Here's a quick summary of relative prices through TCGPlayer. Keep in mind that these prices will surely fall as people acquire the decks. Also note that none of the new cards are represented here. TCGPlayer simply doesn't have individual prices for them yet.
Hard to say. It doesn't say "another." Can your opponent just choose the same thing you chose? If so, it's a hell of a lot less exciting.
I think it's the second best card in the Green deck, actually. It's not "Arrest;" its a green Oblivion Ring. Thats very good.
Wizards clearly hates me and doesn't want me to cut up about 20 Kembas for a giant life counter. ;-;
I now feel your pain Serra and Jaya hopefuls.
(Still snap-buying the commander decks though)
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
I agree that it is a slap to the face of the color wheel, but they did print beast within in standard and that's a far far worse offender. This is a rare that will be only available in a handful of products, so not much to worry about. It's not like lignify was broken or anything.
That would make a lot less exciting for vintage/legacy. It's still not a bad card but probably not good enough for five mana. Idaknow.
But in multiplayer they'd probably choose different targets. That's two creatures and two nonbasics destroyed at instant speed for five. Feels awesome.
Compared to Lignify: A forest is much harder to get rid of than a creature. Most EDH decks have sac outlets or can just block. Plus Lignify only enchants creatures.
Compared to Beast Within: In most cases I'd rather give my opponent a 3/3 than a free land. But Beast Within puts commanders back to the command zone, so I'd prefer Song of the Dryads. And unlike Beast Within, Song stops gods and other indestructibles.
EDIT: For Volcanic Offering, the opponent can choose the same targets. So in 1v1, it's essentially 2-for-1, not 4-for-1.
Rule 114.3. The same target can't be chosen multiple times for any one instance of the word "target" on a spell or ability. If the spell or ability uses the word "target" in multiple places, the same object, player, or zone can be chosen once for each instance of the word "target" (as long as it fits the targeting criteria). This rule applies both when choosing targets for a spell or ability and when changing targets or choosing new targets for a spell or ability (see rule 114.6).
I'm pretty sure the red deck is gonna be the hardest one to get my hands on at retail price yet the one I really want to get multiples of.
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They're all in the freaking red deck!
If Wizards didn't want one of the decks to be much more valuable than all of the others (a la Mind Seize), they probably screwed up royally in my opinion. Red just seems to have so much more value than the others.
Some of the non-red-deck reprints I'm excited about include:Skullclamp, Grave Titan, the Medallions (Red got one too, of course), Thran Dyanmo, Rite of Replication, Abyssal Persecutor, and Priest of Titania.
Among the other new cards I'm very excited about: Nahiri, the Lithomancer, Containment Priest, Comeuppance, Hallowed Spiritkeeper, Domineering Will, Reef Worm, Spoils of Blood, Malicious Affliction, Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury, Song of the Dryads, Masterwork of Ingenuity.
It irritates me more that every time green gets something that isn't a creature, ramp, or disenchant; or red gets anything that isn't direct damage or a watered down "blue effect" (TEMPORARY stealing, BAD filtering, OVERCOSTED flyers), Maro throws a tantrum about color pie purity, but blue or black can get literally anything and it's "well that's ok because they can have that" (blue's bonkers aggro creatures, Reef Worm, Pongify/Hybridization)
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It's not that the blue deck isn't strong. It is. The problem that many have with it is the fact that it's not really interesting or exciting in terms of design. The problem may lie in the common perception that blue generally always gets amazing stuff, while colors like red generally get hosed. This time red is getting is just due and blue is getting what could be considered the status quo blue stuff. In my opinion the blue deck is fine. The red deck however, is amazeballs!
Edited for autocorrect shenanigans and bad grammar.
The commanders are relatively weaker than the past years, but you're crazy if you don't think that the decks are much better and cohesive then past years. There are so many playable, and even staple cards. I'm usually pessimistic, but i am impressed this time.
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Where's my Seedborn Muse, Doubling season, Sylvan Library, Greater Good, Fauna Shaman, Wordly tutor, Green Sun's Zenith, Chord Of Calling, Genesis, Craterhoof Behemoth, Birthing Pod or eldrazi Monument???? I'm feeling like they put a lot of cards from the duel deck (that will be released again next month -_-) and forget about the other green cards that need a reprint indeed...
However I like those decks and I probably buy all of them (Maybe not the Black one rsrs)...
:symgb::symgr: Green (L) :symgw::symug:
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The red and white decks are amazing, head and shoulders above the other three.
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This card is BETTER than Arrest. It is a decent replacement for Beast Within and that card ain't no JOKE. I am pretty blown away by this new one.
Also gonna try out Incite Rebellion as a potential sub for Blasphemous Act in my Viashino deck. I'm actually kinda surprised they put such similar cards in the same precon but whatever.
There is quite a lot of quality in these decks. I'm pretty impressed.
I am kinda bummed we did NOT get a third Nemesis Card this time though. Come on, MaRo..you know how much we like our cycles!!
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1. Green deck is Elf Tribal?! Gross...so gross....I hate elf tribal so much. After the black deck was spoiled, I was looking forward to the Green deck the most and it's the most disappointing of the bunch to me. I don't really like the blue deck either. Seems like a lot of random morphs without Ixidor. Seems pretty meh and random. Black deck wasn't exciting either.
2. I never thought I would say this, but I think the Red deck is my favorite...
3. NO PLANESWALKERS IN TEFERI'S DECK WHAAAAT?! The general has an ultimate involving Planeswalkers and Wizards doesn't include even one other walker in the deck? Not even a lowly Jace Beleren? No Tamiyo? Neither are expensive! Tezzeret the Seeker would have been pretty nice here. That's really disappointing and doesn't make any sense. It's not like they never put a planeswalker in an EDH precon before!
Now! Onto the good and bad with reprints! First of all, despite me not getting some of my most-wanted reprints (quite a few that REALLY should have been in these decks), I am very happy with some of the cards Wizards did choose to reprint. Extremely happy to see the following:
-Wurmcoil Engine (Always wanted more but this card generally stayed expensive. My only copies are stuck in my Modern deck)
-Grave Titan
-Solemn Simulacrum (I seriously need like 5 of these guys!)
-Thran Dynamo (only ever owned two and one's in bad shape)
-Worn Powerstone (Another nice, rare mana rock)
-Oblation (actually need it for two of my decks)
-Chaos Warp (Same as above. This one definitely needed another showing!)
-Return To Dust (Ran out of these)
-Grand Abolisher (can never have enough of this guy)
-Rite of Replication (ran out because they go in every blue deck)
-Reliquary Tower
-Caged Sun
-Tectonic Edge (needed some for modern)
-Goblin Welder (Cool card that's never been reprinted outside of judge promo. Will be nice to have access to it if I ever decide to build artifact shenanigans)
-Sol Ring (obviously)
-Beetleback Chief (super rare uncommon with only one printing. About time it got a reprint)
-Junk Diver (Always wanted one of these for some reason. Cool reprint)
-Mobilization (Accidentally traded my last copy to a friend)
-Sacred Mesa (Amazing new art! Plus this means Pegasus Token?!)
-Sun Titan (Always nice to have some extras)
New cards that really made me happy (and weren't previously spoiled):
-Comeuppance (Oh my god. My favorite types of spells are damage-reflecting ones. This card is brutal and I love that it protects planeswalkers!)
-Wolfcaller's Howl (FAVORITE CARD HANDS DOWN. Love the art, love the name, wolf token spam...one step closer to a wolf tribal deck)
-Well of Ideas (This card just seems flat out ridiculous. Too bad I gave up on Nekusar! Maybe I'll put it into Pheldagriff)
-Lifeblood Hydra (Hey, more hydras, who would have guessed! this one actually does interesting and good things, though! Just watch out for Swords)
-Containment Priest (Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. At first I thought this card just flat-out exiled ANY nontoken creature that ETB. Still awesome, though. Hoses so many "cheat into play" cards and strategies. Also shuts down Derevi. )
-Song of the Dryads (Ahahah. I don't think Green has gotten one of these since Lignify. Always a fun effect, and being able to shut down any permanent is great. Also insta-forestwalk. :D)
Overall, I'm not as thrilled as I was with the previous two EDH sets, but perhaps that's because I was still new to the format when the first set came out and I'm a sucker for multicolor. Unlike the last two times, I don't think I'll be picking up every deck. I'll probably get the Red and White ones only and pick up singles I need from the other three.
That said, I'm sad that we didn't get to see any of these cards reprinted:
Demonic Tutor (Or Vampiric Tutor)
Enlightened Tutor
Crucible of Worlds
Gamble
Skyshroud Claim
Craterhoof Behemoth
Elesh Norn
Batterskull
Lightning Greaves (Come on, if you're going to include Skullclamp in a deck, you might as well go Greaves over Boots!)
Swords to Plowshares
AND [card]Sylvan Library[card] would have been an amazing reprint why wasn't it reprinted here?
Here's hoping Wizards finds a way to reprint these (soon). Quite a few of them are EDH staples and seriously overdue for reprints (I know STP was in Conspiracy, I'm not including it in the "desperately needs a reprint" category The DD Anthologies isn't really going to help make Demonic Tutor cheaper and more available[/card] ).
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Minor nitpick, but Beetleback is also in Speed versus Cunning, btw.
White: $41.92 (low) - $78.97 (avg)
Oh. Well that was like the worst DD ever so I didn't buy it.
Has wizards posted images of all the tokens anywhere?
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again showing these decks are honestly not very valuable, pretty disappointing. There were TONS of cards that could have been reprinted. The average value of last years commander decks was like 80$ TCG low if I remember correctly (+/- 3 kingdoms). If I had to guess I would say they are worried they pissed off enough people with fetch reprints they were afraid. No baneslayer angel? no Oracle of Mul Daya? Consecrated Sphinx? Sword of Feast and Famine? Cabal Coffers? Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger? Gauntlet of Power? Batterskull? Idyllic Tutor? Vigor? Nirkana Revenant?
these decks could have been so much more
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