While I'm really happy to see this card, I fully expect it to be on the CMDR banned list as an emergency ban issued sometime over the next week before C14 releases. Green isn't allowed nice things, remember.
I can actually find ways to play Vorinclex and Bane of Progress when I want them, and unlike this garbage they don't let my opponents weasel out of their well-deserved suffering by giving them colorfixing and tempo. This card is also not at all ban worthy. I'm irrationally offended that this should be compared to the likes of Rofellos, Primeval Titan, Sylvan Primordial, Sundering Titan, or Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
Looking at that list, the common thread there is that those cards are all creatures, which green can find at will using it's myriad creature tutors. I don't know what a green sorcery would have to do to be on the ban list, outside of being a functional reprint of Eureka.
Compared to jokulhaups this looks pretty terrible.
Admittedly jokulhaups is pretty powerful, but I'd rather run other artifact/enchantment hate over this. Besides, green has arguably the strongest nonbasic in the format, why would you want to kill it?
It's great for all the green mages who can't afford a $150 land that can never be reprinted (which I would imagine is the majority of EDH players). Jokulhaups is also one of those extremely hated cards that screws everyone else at the table out of playing and will usually result in mass-scoopage and possibly people not wanting to play with you anymore. This, on the other hand, is one of those perfect cards that solves problems but doesn't have an overwhelming "feel bad" vibe. It may screw someone who's relying on a heavy artifact mana base, but it doesn't just completely shut everyone out of the game in an instant. I like it!
Well, in a sorcery, not in an instant.
bane of progress is way better imo. Tutorable, recurrable, reusable, better upside.
I don't like cards that are only good if your deck is bad.
I've played jokulhaups occasionally. People (at least in my LGS) don't freak out that much as long as you're playing it for a reason. Really the only deck I've played that really truly annoyed people was my child of alara deck.
The biggest reason I adore this card is because it hoses people like you.
"Oh you don't have $2400 worth of cardboard lands. You and your deck suck"
Because I'm guessing this card (bear with me, I'm sure YOUR decks win every time on Turn 4 with Force of Will and Pact of Negation backup every single time without fail) not only gets your artifacts and enchantments, but armageddons you because you don't run anything as plebian as "basic lands".
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
so much for "we do not want LD to be a thing anymore" = P
you are taking that statement incredibly out of context. they never said they didn't want LD to be a thing anymore - period. they said they dont want cheap LD readily available most of the time because it is oppressive and allows you to shut your opponent out of the game before it even starts.
whereas this spell is 7 freaking mana. that's not cheap LD. sure it's in green, you can ramp into it, but it isn't Armageddon. unless you build your deck extremely greedily, your mana base isn't going to be completely wiped.
turn one: dark rit into sinkhole + thoughtseize (or whatever else), turn two boomerang, turn two accel into molten rain, etc etc are a completely different animal from a 7 mana sweeper that lets you replace your nonbasics with basics.
so much for "we do not want LD to be a thing anymore" = P
Unless you're running ALL nonbasics, then you don't lose tempo when someone else casts this. You get to tutor up a basic for each nonbasic destroyed, similar to Ghost Quarter, which isn't really LD: it's an answer card that replaces a land with a different one. If you're running all nonbasics, with all the nonbasic hate out there already, then you're taking a very serious risk and this is only one of the cards that will completely ruin your day.
I play 12 basics so it should probably not be a huge problem, but it definitely is LD (bouncelands turn into regular lands, which is essentially destroying one of the lands). If it does turn out to be an often encountered card, I will probably just trade out three shock lands or bounce lands for three basics. Saying nonbasics are risky is true to an extent but you have to consider what the cards you are talking about actually do. Almost all of them just destroy or inhibit nonbasics, which makes them hate cards. This card just has it as an incidental effect because the most desired effect is probably the sacrifice wipe for artifacts and enchantments. It is not comparable to ghost quarter/strip mine/wasteland, because they only hit one thing and are typically saved for prime targets, so they are not a big deal. Of course, I doubt anything outside of mono green will play the card, but I just thought it funny that Maro made a statement about putting LD in the past and then this got printed.
The biggest reason I adore this card is because it hoses people like you.
"Oh you don't have $2400 worth of cardboard lands. You and your deck suck"
Because I'm guessing this card (bear with me, I'm sure YOUR decks win every time on Turn 4 with Force of Will and Pact of Negation backup every single time without fail) not only gets your artifacts and enchantments, but armageddons you because you don't run anything as plebian as "basic lands".
Wave of vitriol indeed. What did I say to deserve such wrath?
Haven't checked recent prices on duals, but I spent nowhere near that much on my set. Maybe a grand, tops. Anyway I haven't played child in years so I haven't had occasion to use my full set of duals in a deck. Tonight I played Yisan with a manabase that's probably only worth a few hundred, and most of that is in the cradle (there's also a wasteland and a port, and all the basic are unhinged (nonfoil)) but anyway, I digress.
Having a mostly-basic manabase doesn't equal suck. monocolor decks are obviously going to have plenty (if they aren't really stupid HD experiments with Yisan >:)), which is where this card is featured. Most 2-color decks I build have at least a decent number of basics - enough to probably have the same number of lands before and after this spell resolves. Even my Child of alara deck had 6-7 basics, plenty to keep on keepin' on, and then LFTL them back to my hand and play them all out again eventually. Anyone who's running 0 basics and isn't playing hermit druid is kind of bad. Blood moon is a thing, ruination is a thing. Both of those things are way more dangerous than this piece of jank.
Anyway, having basics (or leser nonbasics) doesn't preclude a deck from being good. I get stomped by comparatively cheap decks all the time, because it's a bad matchup for me, or my deck is built with significant restrictions (i.e. Yisan, mono-green, eww), or I'm outdrawn, or I misplay, or whatever. Having duals and fetches does make the deck more consistent, though, and it provides some nice interactions that I personally like (LFTL being a prime example).
I've never build a T4 combo win deck, or really very many combo decks at all, although I did win tonight with Yisan after realizing that seeker of skybreak + illusionist's bracers results in some pretty amusing things, on turn 1 billion (approximately).
Anyway, many assumptions, none of them true I'm sorry to say, but you interest is appreciated. If I ever pick up child of alara again, I look forward to watching someone resolve this terrible spell, then untap and say "global ruin?" and show them what real land destruction looks like.
Well, colorless decks can at least protect one creature with Assault Suit
This card doesn't make anyone sacrifice creatures. No suit neccesary.
Right, but in a colorless deck, unless it's an eldrazi (or a walking atlas with R&D's secret lair on the field) it's also an artifact, which will get sacrificed.
Well, this will be a gigantic beating against my 5 color casual god deck. It only has 1 basic and every creature except captain sisay is also an enchantment, as are most of the removal spells and mana ramp, so it just kills everything I have and leaves me with a forest. Not overly strong against my better decks though.
The reason this is good, at least in more casual groups, is that it solves a lot of different problems while only taking up one slot in a deck. Ruination won't help you against Gods. Bane of Progress doesn't stop Volrath's Stronghold shenanigans. Etc.
It's fine. I am going to run it in a few of my green deckcs because my meta is very nonbasic heavy. Dovetails nicely into Winter Orb or Hokori. Dust Drinker as well. Green has needed a big dumb sweeper forever, every colour has one or two (Blue = Upheaval (Banned)Kedrekt Leviathan, Black = Pox effects, all sorts of wrath variants, Red = Jokulhaups variants, White = All the sweepers) so no harm in giving Green a little push.
It's fine as long a colorless deck isn't at the table. But againts one there's no other card ever printed can compare to the unfairness of this cards. And the clostest cards you can name are all very narrow, this (as you comment proves) in not narrow.
Is said deck using Equipment or Auras? The reason I ask is because this idea seems really cool.
Mostly other slivers. I throw out the hivelord and some buff slivers while I spam wrath spells so people can't defend themselves from my hivelord and friends.
I play 12 basics so it should probably not be a huge problem, but it definitely is LD (bouncelands turn into regular lands, which is essentially destroying one of the lands).
This is LD in the same way that Blood Moon is LD, which is to say "not at all".
I play 12 basics so it should probably not be a huge problem, but it definitely is LD (bouncelands turn into regular lands, which is essentially destroying one of the lands).
This is LD in the same way that Blood Moon is LD, which is to say "not at all".
I do not understand how it can be considered "not at all" when lands go to the graveyard and you could often end up with fewer lands or at least fewer mana than you had before.
Blood moon is technically not LD but the point of the card is the same. Similarly, Contamination ruins everything that produced something other than B. Contamination does not destroy the lands but it makes most cards unplayable the same way LD does.
Actually, this seems to entirely possible.
The Gods of Theros are very vain and fickle,
(Erebos being the least so, but still).
He is not destroyed. He is appalled.
He has graced you with his presence, and how do you reply?
A wafting pool of grime and odiousness,
as you celebrate in manner to please a certain other god,
Shattering and melting all in your way.
What God would give you their time?
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
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Looking at that list, the common thread there is that those cards are all creatures, which green can find at will using it's myriad creature tutors. I don't know what a green sorcery would have to do to be on the ban list, outside of being a functional reprint of Eureka.
Oh Rider, my heart will go on...
The biggest reason I adore this card is because it hoses people like you.
"Oh you don't have $2400 worth of cardboard lands. You and your deck suck"
Because I'm guessing this card (bear with me, I'm sure YOUR decks win every time on Turn 4 with Force of Will and Pact of Negation backup every single time without fail) not only gets your artifacts and enchantments, but armageddons you because you don't run anything as plebian as "basic lands".
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Is said deck using Equipment or Auras? The reason I ask is because this idea seems really cool.
The smell offends the gods' divine nostrils and they forsake you!
you are taking that statement incredibly out of context. they never said they didn't want LD to be a thing anymore - period. they said they dont want cheap LD readily available most of the time because it is oppressive and allows you to shut your opponent out of the game before it even starts.
whereas this spell is 7 freaking mana. that's not cheap LD. sure it's in green, you can ramp into it, but it isn't Armageddon. unless you build your deck extremely greedily, your mana base isn't going to be completely wiped.
turn one: dark rit into sinkhole + thoughtseize (or whatever else), turn two boomerang, turn two accel into molten rain, etc etc are a completely different animal from a 7 mana sweeper that lets you replace your nonbasics with basics.
I play 12 basics so it should probably not be a huge problem, but it definitely is LD (bouncelands turn into regular lands, which is essentially destroying one of the lands). If it does turn out to be an often encountered card, I will probably just trade out three shock lands or bounce lands for three basics. Saying nonbasics are risky is true to an extent but you have to consider what the cards you are talking about actually do. Almost all of them just destroy or inhibit nonbasics, which makes them hate cards. This card just has it as an incidental effect because the most desired effect is probably the sacrifice wipe for artifacts and enchantments. It is not comparable to ghost quarter/strip mine/wasteland, because they only hit one thing and are typically saved for prime targets, so they are not a big deal. Of course, I doubt anything outside of mono green will play the card, but I just thought it funny that Maro made a statement about putting LD in the past and then this got printed.
Haven't checked recent prices on duals, but I spent nowhere near that much on my set. Maybe a grand, tops. Anyway I haven't played child in years so I haven't had occasion to use my full set of duals in a deck. Tonight I played Yisan with a manabase that's probably only worth a few hundred, and most of that is in the cradle (there's also a wasteland and a port, and all the basic are unhinged (nonfoil)) but anyway, I digress.
Having a mostly-basic manabase doesn't equal suck. monocolor decks are obviously going to have plenty (if they aren't really stupid HD experiments with Yisan >:)), which is where this card is featured. Most 2-color decks I build have at least a decent number of basics - enough to probably have the same number of lands before and after this spell resolves. Even my Child of alara deck had 6-7 basics, plenty to keep on keepin' on, and then LFTL them back to my hand and play them all out again eventually. Anyone who's running 0 basics and isn't playing hermit druid is kind of bad. Blood moon is a thing, ruination is a thing. Both of those things are way more dangerous than this piece of jank.
Anyway, having basics (or leser nonbasics) doesn't preclude a deck from being good. I get stomped by comparatively cheap decks all the time, because it's a bad matchup for me, or my deck is built with significant restrictions (i.e. Yisan, mono-green, eww), or I'm outdrawn, or I misplay, or whatever. Having duals and fetches does make the deck more consistent, though, and it provides some nice interactions that I personally like (LFTL being a prime example).
I've never build a T4 combo win deck, or really very many combo decks at all, although I did win tonight with Yisan after realizing that seeker of skybreak + illusionist's bracers results in some pretty amusing things, on turn 1 billion (approximately).
Anyway, many assumptions, none of them true I'm sorry to say, but you interest is appreciated. If I ever pick up child of alara again, I look forward to watching someone resolve this terrible spell, then untap and say "global ruin?" and show them what real land destruction looks like.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Yes, I guess this card wins the title "Card whose name best describes the forum threads about it"
This card doesn't make anyone sacrifice creatures. No suit neccesary.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
It's fine as long a colorless deck isn't at the table. But againts one there's no other card ever printed can compare to the unfairness of this cards. And the clostest cards you can name are all very narrow, this (as you comment proves) in not narrow.
Mostly other slivers. I throw out the hivelord and some buff slivers while I spam wrath spells so people can't defend themselves from my hivelord and friends.
This is LD in the same way that Blood Moon is LD, which is to say "not at all".
I do not understand how it can be considered "not at all" when lands go to the graveyard and you could often end up with fewer lands or at least fewer mana than you had before.
Blood moon is technically not LD but the point of the card is the same. Similarly, Contamination ruins everything that produced something other than B. Contamination does not destroy the lands but it makes most cards unplayable the same way LD does.
The Gods of Theros are very vain and fickle,
(Erebos being the least so, but still).
He is not destroyed. He is appalled.
He has graced you with his presence, and how do you reply?
A wafting pool of grime and odiousness,
as you celebrate in manner to please a certain other god,
Shattering and melting all in your way.
What God would give you their time?
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?